LinkedIn Users Will Soon Know What Jobs Pay Before Applying for Them (adweek.com) 62
LinkedIn just introduced a way to help its members avoid going through the interview process for jobs with salaries that do not meet their expectations. From a report: The professional network announced the rollout of Salary Insights, which will add estimated or expected salary ranges to open roles, getting the numbers either through salary ranges provided by employers or estimated ranges from data submitted by members. The feature will launch "in the coming weeks." Salary Insights marks the next step after LinkedIn Salary, which the professional network launched in November 2016 to provide its users with information on salaries, bonuses and equity data for specific job titles, as well as factors that impact those salaries, including experience, industry, company size, location and education level.
Not here (Score:2)
Not in Romania, they won't.
Employers never, ever post salary ranges, and employees are forbidden from telling them, or they can be fired.
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Of course they'll be posted. "Negotiable", "According to experience" or everyone's favourite - "Market rate" .
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Not in Romania, they won't. Employers never, ever post salary ranges,
I'll bet they'll complain that they can't get people, even though they're not prepared to do what it takes to get people and even if that costs nothing.
At least I'm assuming Romanians companies aren't on the whole aren't different from any other companies.
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I'm not going to an interview before we have at least a preliminary conversation about salary.
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You are correct, they do complain.
Nobody wants our shitty-paid jobs, waaaah”
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What I meant is you have to go there in person and hold the interview before even finding what the salary range is.
the last thing you want is spending 3h to find out they can only offer you 70% of what you already make.
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If a smaller percentage of women ask for a higher salary, then they'll effectively be applying a downward factor to themselves.
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Other wise known as systemic patriarchy.
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Otherwise known as negotiating. And, those that negotiate in the workplace will generally get more stuff accomplished. Those who successfully negotiate for salary are likely to be more effective in the workplace and are worth the extra compensation they received.
Not all negotiations are "hard ball" and salary negotiations for most software development positions are usually not. The employer knows what they can pay, they offer somewhat less (both to save money if you accept the offer and to give them room to
LinkedIn gaining relevance (Score:4, Interesting)
This could be a pretty big change for LinkedIn. I forsee more people using it. I also think it could make corporations be wary and start using other services.
Here's the rule of thumb. (Score:1)
If a company post the salary, it is good.
If a company does not post the salary, it is because they do not want people to know it is low.
Re:LinkedIn gaining relevance (Score:5, Insightful)
This could be a pretty big change for LinkedIn. I forsee more people using it. I also think it could make corporations be wary and start using other services.
You ask me this feature would be a big relief. It is such enormous fun to be made to jump through all the flaming interview hoops only to find out that you are expected to work for a totally unacceptable salary. However, there are other tricks that employers use like offering a flat salary while they retain the option to make you work over time and weekends whenever they want to. At this one place I applied for a job they asked me how well I worked under pressure, I told them I'd finished a Comp Sci degree in the top ten percent of my year, what did they think? Then I asked the HR type: Why do you ask? Will I be spending a lot of time working under pressure? He was not amused. So just some hints for those of you who are just starting out:
1) If they want you to work for a flat salary with no ceiling on working time and promise it will only be the occasional evening and weekend work only in emergencies that is HR speak for: "We are planning to put you on permanent 24/7 standby without paying you extra for it."
2) If anybody ever asks you during a job interview if you work well under pressure that is HR speak for: "We are running our company's operations with a skeleton crew to maximise profits, we are always on the verge of missing deadlines and you can expect to be worked to death"
Also watch out for clauses in the contract that prohibit you from working for anybody else in the industry for N years after quitting at their company. Some employers even add clauses forbidding you to work on any FOSS projects at all. That is bad because FOSS projects are a good way to satisfy the kind of employer that wants you to provide code samples. I'm fine with code samples but I usually don't waste my time on perspective employers who send me math puzzles since I have yet to be offered a job solving math puzzles. One outfit I worked for even tried to get me to sign a new contract that contained a clause so broadly worded that they could have claimed ownership of *any* code I wrote, even on my own time outside of working hours and even if it was unrelated to their business. I'm not going to attribute malice to this, that contract was probably just written by a really incompetent lawyer whose chief qualification was being related to one of the managers but I still refused to sign the damn thing. Now if Linked-in would add a feature that allows me to see shit like this it would make my life even easier than knowing in advance what they are planning to pay me.
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This is one reason why it's good to be in California, where those clauses are always explicitly illegal.
Most people don't regularly write open source softwar
Yawn... (Score:3)
LinkedIn Users Will Soon Know What Jobs Pay Before Applying for Them
That's nice but what pisses me off the most about job interviews is not that, its being asked to a job interview and having a conversation something akin to the following:
.NET ... it seems your skill profile is incompatible with our requirements.
Interviewer: We are looking to replace Bob who left us recently. We are looking for a somebody who know <long list of APIs> and has recently worked on <insanely specific project description>, we really need a close fit on this.
Me: No, if I had it would say so in my CV.
Interviewer: So, do you know Microsoft
Me: No, if I did it would say so in my CV.
Interviewer: Do you have any Microsoft programming experience.
Me: No, if I had it would say so in my CV, in fact it says in my CV I have 10 years of Linux system programming experienece in C/C++.
Interviewer: Well I must say I'm rather disappointed, why did you even apply here?
Me: I was sent here by the person at the recruiting office who told me you wanted to interview me for a job because my CV matched what you were looking for.
Interviewer: Well,
Me: No shit stupid, **which my the common sense processor in my brain modifies to: This is true**.
Interviewer: Looks at his laptop screen and types something.
Me: Can I ask you something?
Interviewer: Sure, shoot?
Me: Did you even read my CV?
Interviewer: Scowls and does not answer.
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You both got fucked by idiotic paper pushers. You by your 'recruiter' he by his HR drone.
He hadn't seen your resume until the interview started. HR had assured him, they had prefiltered for qualified applicants (read: 'filtered _out_ all qualified applicants').
HR is useless, recruiters are useless, but you know that. _All_ qualified applicants and good jobs are matched via the side door end runs around HR.
Watch out for recruiters that want to use 'the back door', unless you're into that kind of thing
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You both got fucked by idiotic paper pushers. You by your 'recruiter' he by his HR drone.
He hadn't seen your resume until the interview started. HR had assured him, they had prefiltered for qualified applicants (read: 'filtered _out_ all qualified applicants').
HR is useless, recruiters are useless, but you know that. _All_ qualified applicants and good jobs are matched via the side door end runs around HR.
Watch out for recruiters that want to use 'the back door', unless you're into that kind of thing... Some of those bastards will edit your resume (lying for you) before sending them out.
I disagree, I've had several Job interviews like this and I have two major issues with what happened. Firstly an interviewer should not interview anybody until he has read the CV. It does not take **that** long to read a damn CV. I was quite annoyed at these people for wasting my time by being too lazy to read my CV. Secondly the specification for an exact Bob replacement was so insanely specific it could only have been met if they'd had a backup tape of Bob's brain and then uploaded it into a Bob clone th
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That is peculiar, as in many *more* interview situations, the interviewer can be put off if you are too interested in talking about benefits and salary before things are settled.
I recall once we had an entry position and one guy *really* put off the manager by asking about flexible hours and vacation too early. The kicker is the answers in practice would have been pretty good for the candidate, but the hiring manager made it sound rougher, largely because they were a bit frustrated by the asking. It was a
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Well, one I don't know if that recruiter was for the company or a third party headhunter.
One time I was pulled in by a third party recruiter and the interviewer starts talking about skills from my resume I didn't recall. I asked to see their copy of my resume and the recruiter had *changed* it to say things to get me in the door,and I mentioned that and presented my actual resume. This was something the parent mentioned, that the recruiter can modify the CV on its way through.
Now on the face of it, this w
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Never had this. I have had endless recruiters send me job offers for things outside my core competency(embedded linux, c/c++/python). I have never gotten close to the interview stage without establishing the requirements of the job. My time, and the time of the interviewer, is very valuable. Senior dev time is expensive. Both me and the companies I have interviewed with have always made damn sure, usually through phone interviews, that we are on the same page regarding the job's requirements. I think
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LinkedIn Users Will Soon Know What Jobs Pay Before Applying for Them
That's nice but what pisses me off the most about job interviews is not that, its being asked to a job interview and having a conversation something akin to the following: Interviewer: We are looking to replace Bob who left us recently. We are looking for a somebody who know <long list of APIs> and has recently worked on <insanely specific project description>, we really need a close fit on this. Me: No, if I had it would say so in my CV. Interviewer: So, do you know Microsoft .NET
Me: No, if I did it would say so in my CV.
Interviewer: Do you have any Microsoft programming experience.
Me: No, if I had it would say so in my CV, in fact it says in my CV I have 10 years of Linux system programming experienece in C/C++.
Interviewer: Well I must say I'm rather disappointed, why did you even apply here?
Me: I was sent here by the person at the recruiting office who told me you wanted to interview me for a job because my CV matched what you were looking for.
Interviewer: Well, ... it seems your skill profile is incompatible with our requirements.
Me: No shit stupid, **which my the common sense processor in my brain modifies to: This is true**.
Interviewer: Looks at his laptop screen and types something.
Me: Can I ask you something?
Interviewer: Sure, shoot?
Me: Did you even read my CV?
Interviewer: Scowls and does not answer.
Should not be interviewing for jobs through a recruiter! Especially after 10 years of industry experience.
This is bad news (Score:1)
The sharing of information is going to benefit employers and not prospective employees. All employers will be advertising the lower value, then during negotiation will increase the salary slightly. You won't see employers advertising the maximum they are willing to pay then negotiating down.
The end result? We'll see a trend of tech salaries moving lower.
Re:This is bad news (Score:4, Insightful)
All employers will be advertising the lower value ...
Any company that does that will get fewer and lower quality applicants.
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This, I don't understand why a company does not publish salary as part of a job posting. You get to see this giant list of requirements of "What the company WANTS!" What they are willing to offer, eh, they make in extremely quiet like an employee would not be interested in that sort of thing.
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I don't understand why a company does not publish salary as part of a job posting.
Because the salary offered depends on the candidate. My company is currently attempting to fill several developer positions. For the skill and experience we are seeking, we will likely pay about $150k in base salary. But if a bright but inexperienced youngling applies, we will offer significantly less. On the other hand, if Jeff Dean applies, we would be happy to go ten times higher. If we include the salary in the ad, the youngling shows up for the interview with unrealistic expectation, and Jeff Dean
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The converse of that is people who would qualify for your high-end would end up having to troll though a bunch of low-paying positions where companies think they can get the same guy for 100K and they will probably be 9 listings in that 100K range for your 150K. What is this theoretical future employee going to do?
From my perspective, I hate job hunting for this exact reason. For positions that I would be interested I would apply 10 times, but only 1 that would fit my salary requirements. I might not even
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The converse of that is people who would qualify for your high-end would end up having to troll though a bunch of low-paying positions
My "high end" is $1M or more. Do you really think I should say that in the hope that Jeff Dean is reading Craigslist ads? That would waste the time of far, far more people, since I would not offer a salary like that to the other 99.9999%.
Of course I could state a range, but that isn't really helpful either, since an applicant would have little idea where in that range they will be.
Some candidates put an "expected salary" on their resume, and that is helpful, especially if it is reasonable and consistent w
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"Starting salary $50,000 for no experience or qualifications. Salary range is extremely flexible based on qualifications and experience. If you have the experience and/or qualifications, do not hesitate to apply."
Such a vague and broad statement is absolutely useless to anyone.
Re: This is bad news (Score:2)
I work at a big tech company (Score:2)
Mine definitely doesn't know if they want a NCG (new college grad) or a senior engineer. They interview people for almost any level. Inters go through a intern program for their interviews because they are temporary.
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In my experience most companies have an idea of what a job is worth. How much value it adds to the company. To an extent you can negotiate and maybe offer them something extra that justifies more money, but if they need a front end web developer it doesn't matter how much experience you have they ain't gonna pay embedded developer salary.
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Any company that does that will get fewer and lower quality applicants.
High quality applications are primarily internal referrals. Linkedin is used to fill out reqs in a department.
Also lots of excellent and hard working technical people are bad at negotiating. It's not unusual to have a few of the best people on staff being paid average or even below average.
Glassdoor (Score:3, Insightful)
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Glassdoor already has a big jump on this information, it will be hard for LinkedIn to catch up. In an unrelated story, Microsoft has been screwing up LinkedIn since they bought it, I'm not using LinkedIn to tell business connections "Happy Birthday" or to track celebrity news.
Glasshdoor information is all over the place.
Some of their information is 5-8 years old. Some have been manipulated for whatever reasons. Maybe it is good for some areas but for my area it was not accurate and probably dangerous for candidates.
Salary commensurate with experience? (Score:1)
HR droid: Okay you're making X now. We can offer
Me: No, I make X now and I get variable comp too on top of that. Salary is salary, variable comp is variable comp. Eight out of eight quarters is nice. Do you want to put a guarantee in writing about the next eight, ten, or twenty quarters.
HR droid: Er,
Glassdoor... (Score:2)
Glassdoor offers this same facility. Of the jobs that do provide a salary, most are estimated. When you request the salary range from the job's poster, it seems you never get an update.
If LI is going to roll this out, they should REQUIRE that posters provide a salary range. And, when people interview and are told what the job really pays, those individuals should be permitted to report the real salary. If there is a major discrepancy after multiple updates by interviewees, flag the original job posting
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Employers would leave (Score:1)
Wouldn't this just make employers leave LinkedIn, so that applicants can't know what the expected salary is so they can low-ball ?
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Wouldn't this just make employers leave LinkedIn, so that applicants can't know what the expected salary is so they can low-ball ?
That would work about as well as not posting the salary. Thing is prospective employees want to know the salary whether or not a company is on linked in. A lot of us have had recruiters do the hard sell, butter us up then offer something like half (or less! my record was under 1/3) of what we're currently making.
Prospective employers like to talk about all the interesting projec
Really? (Score:3)
Wait... (Score:4, Funny)
Wait... LinkedIn is for jobs? I always thought it was a game where you have to hit "Accept" for people you know and like, and "Ignore" for the thousands of foreigners you've never met.