Square Market Now Accepts Bitcoin 94
An anonymous reader writes "Square today announced it has added support for paying with Bitcoin. As a result, buyers can now use the digital currency to purchase goods and services on Square Market, which allows sellers to create an online storefront with online payment processing. The mobile payment company promises the experience won't feel any different for sellers and they 'don't have to change a thing, except potentially expecting new trailblazing customers and more sales.' In other words, Square wants them to be able to offer Bitcoin as a payment option without any headaches."
Stripe is also adding beta support for Bitcoin as a funding source. No word from Paypal yet.
Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (Score:5, Interesting)
the draconian new IRS regulations
The new IRS regulations say that bitcoins will be treated just like any other property, such as, say, a bushel of corn. The alternative is to treat it officially as a financial instrument, which would involve more reporting and regulation. So the IRS has simply clarified the rules in a less draconian direction.
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Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (Score:4, Funny)
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If you mean "inevitable wave of the future"
This is just another online store using Bitcoin for free advertising. All you need to do is set up a Bitcoin conversion system on your store's front end (they're not going to keep them for more than 2 seconds), announce you accept Bitcoin, and.... bingo! Your store is now being advertised on every tech site in the world as "Bitcoin News!!". That's millions of $$$ of advertising, for free!
Too Cheap to Meter (Score:2)
3-D Movies at Home + Nuclear Power = Entertainment Too Cheap to Meter!
Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (Score:4, Insightful)
It's not the first time Bitcoin would change its value that rapidly or that much. But its volatility doesn't really matter much when using it as a transaction medium - you get BTC, you immediately sell it for USD, and that's that. And why would a US-centric service care about what Russia or China do?
Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (Score:5, Insightful)
You are conveniently forgetting the conversion to and from USD also involves transaction fees. Not only that, but you also have to trust the trading institution that is holding your dollar balance to not abscond with your dollars, otherwise you have to ALSO transfer your dollars into and out of the institution immediately.
So we are now talking about three transaction fees at a minimum, and five transactions if you don't trust the institution doing the dollar conversion. Plus someone has to eat whatever change in trading value occurs during the period where the transaction is being stored in BTC.
This immediately causes numerous problems, not the least of which being that the trade value of BTC is no longer deflationary if nobody doing real commerce is holding a balance in BTC. In addition to the fact that it won't be deflationary anyway because there can be any number of crypto-currencies in existence.
We are considering the question of volatility and whether it matters. The answer is: Yes, it does matter, and for some obvious reasons.
Consider the two holders of BTC. The speculators, and those trying to use it for commerce. You need stability for commerce-users to hold a BTC balance of any significance. Without stability the only people holding BTC are the speculators. When speculators are the only game in town, instability is guaranteed.
Now consider the so-called deflationary property of BTC (which is a phantom property in my view... wishful thinking at best). What happens to the two holders of BTC if you actually get deflation? What you get is hoarding by the commerce users (i.e. it stops being used for commerce) and more speculation by the speculators. Result == even worse volatility. Hoarding can easily destroy any currency as has been proven over and over again throughout history.
-Matt
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As for hoarding, this is a basic restatement of the Paradox of Thrift. The economic models that use this are not sufficient to describe bitcoin. There are other models which DO suffice, of which you seem to be oddly ignorant.
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Surely you can name just a handful of the many places you use bit coins regularly for daily purchases such as groceries, then? Because looking at your Homepage I live not too far from you, and I've never seen a single fucking place in the real world that offers to accept Bitcoins.
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I would love to know as well. And also, I wonder if you are recording those purchases since you have to declare each one on your tax return as a capital gain or loss.
Your argument is a bit absurd considering bitcoin's volatility, let alone the grade-school economics. Big words might be taken more seriously if not for the clear insanity behind the comment.
You honestly think you are being capital-efficient by using stored BTC as the basis for your working funds? I can't imagine how you plan your finances f
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You are surprisingly judgmental for someone on a "news for nerds" website. I guess it's true that people become bitter as they age. Or maybe you're just jealous. Imagine how jealous yo
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All the conversion fees etc are basically the price of doing the transaction. Since I'm not a merchant, I don't know how they compare to e.g. credit card processing fees (which a lot of people complain about). I suspect they are actually comparable, but even if BTC is more expensive, it's not hard to factor that into the price, or even expose the fees directly to the customer.
Long-term prospects of BTC don't really matter all that much for that purpose if it lets you get some clients now. Even if it goes ou
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You are conveniently forgetting the conversion to and from USD also involves transaction fees.
So does VISA, Paypal, and everything else...
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The problem is Bitcoin is so volatile its price can change enough that selling for a nice price can turn into selling for a loss in the time it took for the transaction to be confirmed.
Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (Score:4, Insightful)
So basically, if you're willing to risk it, now is the time to get in.
Acknowledge it as a threat by said superpowers. It could hardly get better advertising.
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No. Now is NOT the time to get in, we're currently in the bull trap after the peak on this chart:
http://www.portfolioprobe.com/... [portfolioprobe.com]
Bitcoin has gone through all the classic stages of a bubble so far. I would not be in the least bit surprised if it ends up falling back to around $5.
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Maybe, hence the conditional. However, based on Bitcoin's history and prospects, I'd say we're in the despair phase.
I would. There's too much demand for sending cash over the Internet, which is what Bitcoin ultimately amounts to.
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There's plenty of demand for sending cash over the Internet, but Bitcoin as it stands isn't working for that because:
- it is too volatile, the value of what you sent can change too much by the time you've confirmed the transaction
- it's too difficult to turn into currency you can spend in a grocery store
I'd love to see a cryptocurrency work out because good riddance PayPal. But Bitcoin as it stands isn't this replacement, and for at least the next couple of years will only be working as a speculation instru
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In case you haven't noticed, the value of Bitcoin has dropped by more than half over the past three months. Between the MtGox scandal, the Bitcoin bans in Russia and China, and the draconian new IRS regulations
So what? BTC is a medium of payment. The businesses accepting BTC as payment are largely converting it into their preferred currency, so the volatility isn't very important.
I'm amazed that it's still trading in the $500 range.
Your amazement should be taken as a clue that you don't actually understand the Bitcoin market.
It sure as hell don't see it coming back to $1,000 soon, that's for sure.
See above.
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"So what? BTC is a medium of payment. The businesses accepting BTC as payment are largely converting it into their preferred currency, so the volatility isn't very important."
Really. Why don't you name a few? From where I stand no real business is keeping balances in BTC. All their prices are in USD and their payment processor (such as coinbase) is paying them in USD.
You realize how dumb your statement is? You think any business is going to forgo double-digit profits or accept double-digit losses by quo
Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (Score:5, Interesting)
Read more carefully. There's a big difference between accepting Bitcoin and pricing something in Bitcoin. Square market is pricing everything in dollars (because, really, no merchant in their right mind would ever price anything in actual BTC unless they were intentionally trying to fleece you).
It's a near meaningless gesture which puts the entire burden and risk on the consumer holding the BTC, who is not only eating the overhead from the transaction and the exchange spread, but is also creating a coincident sale on the exchange at market and is likely causing the whole BTC market to drop.
If you want to know how much it's costing you, consider that bitcoin has lost over half of its value over the last 4 months. Now you can make up all the reasons you like for why it is dropping, but my bet is that people are draining their BTC on goods and creating a field day for short speculators on the exchanges.
-Matt
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I think you should re-read my statement. I believe you'll find that you are in error WRT what you think I said.
Dumb indeed.
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Would that be the Greater Fool Theory? Or the notion that there's a sucker born every minute?
Generally speaking, if you find yourself going negative on something that a bunch of other people are enthusiastic about, the chances are fairly good that you don't understand it. That's not to say that Bitcoin is a stable market (it's not) but that there are probably many more variables contributing to the price than you are aware of.
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The MtGox scandal is a good thing. MtGox is the single worst source of bad bitcoin drama and it is good for them to collapse before bitcoin actually becomes a really big thing. The bans in Russia and China are setbacks, but nothing particularly unexpected. After all, bitcoin is antithetical to centralized currencies. As f
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Re:Monopoly money (Score:2)
If you are referring to the game currency, it's not secure against counterfeiting or inflation (Hasbro can print more whenever they want).
If you are referring to fiat currencies, they are in fact government or central bank monopolies, but also not secure against counterfeiting or inflation.
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Buy Now (Score:1, Insightful)
It's going mainstream. Buy now - this is the last push before it gets to $800 - $1000 per Bitcoin (again) and settles for quite some time.
If you're looking to speculate on BTC, this is the last chance to buy in and get near-guaranteed profits of 50-80% in the short term.
I currently hold zero Bitcoins, but I may pick some up again. (I mined all my previous BTC.)
Re:Buy Now (Score:4, Insightful)
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Maybe he already has. If so, it's called pump and dump [wikipedia.org].
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That was $498 dollars worth of dogecoin.
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If you're going to get 50-80% profit in the short term why on earth would you not invest in this? Unless you don't believe your own advice?
Because I'd have to liquidate assets to do so in any meaningful amount, find a reputable exchange, get my money over to it, buy Bitcoins, wait, sell, get my money back out to my other accounts/investments, and report it all on my taxes next year. I'm a very lazy man. That said, if I find a reputable exchange in the next few days I absolutely will be putting money in.
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So, you're saying that Bitcoins are too much of a hassle to use and too much of a risk to buy and sell because of the exchanges -- even though you're convinced that you're going to get "near-guaranteed 50-80%" profit if you purchase a few bitcoins now.
You can see why some people here might be skeptical of it being the currency of the future.
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For the rest of world, it's a different story. Bitcoin's volatility is already less than that of a few "real" currencies.
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Check ebay. There are quite a few people selling it there, probably hopeing to get a better exchange rate. I purchased 0.02BTC there when I was playing around with it.
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I thought I was reading /r/bitcoin for a second there.
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HAHAHAHA, who the fuck are you kidding. Bitcoin is going down the drain.
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If you have money to play with, sure. But dont call it an investment. I have a small amount of my saving that I dont mind if it becomes worth 0 tomorrow (5% of my total saving in an year). I currently am buy bitcoins with it, but I wouldnt consider it an investment at all. Certainly not a good investment.
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No, I don't think so (Bitcoin has already been in the mainstream media for months). Take a look at this chart, I'm pretty sure we're actually in the bull trap right now, and Bitcoin still has a long way to fall:
http://www.portfolioprobe.com/... [portfolioprobe.com]
Best of both worlds (Score:5, Funny)
Sweet! Sounds like a great deal
I get the convenience of the transactions being helpfully reported to the government making my taxes easier
I get the joy of paying middlemen.
I get the reliability and stability of bitcoin.
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I'm going offline for 24 hours to let the barrage of poor jokes wash over. This is April Fools, isn't it?
Not for another day here, but you have the right Idea.
Missing the point of bitcoin (Score:1)
Wasn't bitcoin created to get rid of these financial middlemen?
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The thing with Bitcoin is that you *can* avoid the middlemen, if they're not doing a good job, censoring you or taking too big a cut. Middlemen who provide a valuable service can still exist in the Bitcoin world.
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A quick read of TFA indicates that the Square folks are providing a service in terms of accepting Bitcoin from buyers and providing dollars to sellers. The seller gets to set the price in dollars and then receives that number of dollars for the sale, less commission. Charging a commission for providing the service of a currency exchange (or a commodity exchange, if you prefer) sounds like a Square deal to me, depending on the commission.
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That'll be, uh, can you just pay in USD? (Score:1)
Between the new IRS rules and the supposed drama in China, Bitcoin has been on something of a downtrend the last few days. I've personally tried to accept Bitcoin as payment for some electronics I sold online, but by the time the buyer paid, I actually lost about $5. I would've actually come out ahead by accepting PayPal, fees and all.
I've come to the conclusion that cryptocoins are more-or-less a stock market fantasy game being played with real money. This isn't to say the concept of cryptocurrency can'
Re:That'll be, uh, can you just pay in USD? (Score:5, Funny)
I've personally tried to accept Bitcoin as payment for some electronics I sold online, but by the time the buyer paid, I actually lost about $5.
My experience was the opposite. I just bought some electronics online, and by the time the seller got my funds, I actually saved about $5.
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Given the current volatility, it seems like anything that's priced in terms of a fixed Bitcoin amount involves an element of speculation on the part of the seller. That went against you in this case, but it might have worked out in your favor on some other day - which is the nature of speculation.
In conventional currencies and commodities, derivatives are available to hedge risk in the instrument itself for those who want that. A quick Internet search indicates that derivate markets for Bitcoin currently
Good-bye Folding@home, hello Bitcoins. (Score:2)
The payoff's immediate and self serving.
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Well, it would be if bitcoins could be mined any more with anything smaller than a supercomputer of ASICs.
Well... not really (Score:3, Interesting)
"At the other end, the seller receives the amount of the purchased goods or services in the amount of USD advertised to the sellersâ(TM) customer at the time of transaction, and can fulfill their customerâ(TM)s order. In other words, the seller takes no risk on Bitcoin value fluctuation"
In otherwords, all prices are still in US Dollars and neither Square Market nor the seller assume any of the risk. Plus the Bitcoin holder gets to have fun reporting every single last sale's exchange value to the IRS, and has no protection against any fraud that might occur. Which, honestly, doesn't really further the cause.
Bitcoin holders are now learning the hard way that bitcoins are not the magical deflationary stores of value they thought they were.
-Matt
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I once delivered a pizza and the guy paid me with twenty thousand bitcoins. Too bad my dog ate the paper with all the numbers on it.
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The dog will return it to you soon with additional encryption applied.
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The dog will return it to you soon with additional encryption applied.
I think that's a one way hash.
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I had a similar experience in the '90s with a dot-com stock that was spun off from my employer's stock plan. It fell from $20 to $60 to $12 to $2. Unfortunately, I bought more at $12.
Re:Well... not really (Score:4, Insightful)
That is, unfortunately, a very typical story. Buying during a fall thinking you are getting a good deal because the price was once higher is probably responsible for as many losses as those who buy at market tops and ride their 'investments' down.
It's basically due to the investor either not being able to come up with a reasonable approximation of intrinsic value with which to judge whether valuation is a buying or selling opportunity, or simply running on base emotion thinking that because the commodity was once at a higher price that it must therefore return to that higher price if only one waits long enough.
In the case of BTC, people come up with all sorts of crazy valuations (like '$500,000 per BTC') based on grade-school thinking and onto bandwagons of other's opinions thinking that it must be right because so many people believe it is right. So right that they can't lose even when value is falling through the floor. A lot of these people wind up eventually putting their entire life savings at risk, even if they didn't intend to originally. You see that money and potential profit and lose all semblance of reason. But in the end all they accomplish is to hand their money over to the other, smarter people.
It's not even necessarily an issue of greed... it's a problem of being driven by sentiment or specious arguments... depending on other people's opinions to form the basis for your own instead of generating your own opinion from basic principles (and not fooling yourself or pulling your own punches). Easy fodder for momentum-driven trading.
Consider for the moment that there is a buyer for every sale on an exchange. Who's doing the buying when the market is clearly going down?
-Matt
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The other way I like to look at it is the value of $s to investors. This is why I'm leary of most kickstarter type projects. At a certain point you can be assured that some number of investors have invested because so many other people or dollars have been invested. They never did their own individual risk assessment nor could they have properly afforded to. The question is always how much of those investment dollars were done so out of bad motivations.
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That would apply if you were treating Kickstarter as an investment. The ones I've participated in have been more like pre-orders. You have to trust that the people aren't likely to take your money and run, and not mind too much if a few do, but you don't normally calculate ROI.
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But they don't want you to sell guns (Score:2)
Sell all the drugs you want but don't you dare sell guns with our payment service.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ab... [forbes.com]
Psychology (Score:2)