Vista Sales Strong, Higher Than Expected 394
An anonymous reader writes "Despite reports, it seems Microsoft is not only alive, but has been thriving these last few months. Following Apple's solid earnings yesterday comes above-expectation reporting from Microsoft. Profits jumped 65% from the previous year, and sales of its Windows operating system were strong: 'Microsoft said it deferred $1.2 billion in Windows Vista revenue to the third quarter, to account for upgrade coupons given to PC buyers during the holiday season before the consumer launch of the new operating system. Excluding this figure, client revenue totaled $4.1 billion, 30 percent higher than last year.' Microsoft Chief Financial Officer Chris Liddell said Vista beat internal forecasts by $300 million to $400 million, and Office 2007 sales were $200 million better than expected."
Well it figures (Score:5, Interesting)
Coupons, Coupons, Coupons (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Coupons, Coupons, Coupons (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Coupons, Coupons, Coupons (Score:4, Insightful)
... and dont need to purchase it every 6 months? (Score:4, Funny)
Please don't given them any ideas.
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These are facts. Reported to the SEC. You can't call raw, concrete sales revenue/profit "astrotuf," especially when they provide the breakdown of numbers with coupons excluded. There isn't even any gray area left.
Just because you don't like Microsoft doesn't mean everything positive about them is astroturf. I'm hoping it's because you didn't bother reading the
Re:Well it figures (Score:5, Insightful)
These are facts. Reported to the SEC. You can't call raw, concrete sales revenue/profit "astrotuf," especially when they provide the breakdown of numbers with coupons excluded. There isn't even any gray area left.
Facts are nothing without interpretation. The submission implies that a relatively modest increase in sales on the heels of the first new OS release in 6 years means that everything is fantastic over at Redmond. This indicates either presence of spin or lack of a brain. You pick. Coupled with the fact that the submitter is anonymous, I lean toward a PR campaign, which MS has been known to do in that fashion.
Just because you don't like Microsoft doesn't mean everything positive about them is astroturf. I'm hoping it's because you didn't bother reading the article,
I don't particularly care about MS, but lack of logic skills in reporting bugs me. The headline of the submission "Vista Sales Strong, Higher Than Expected" is simply not supported by the only externally available evidence ("Profits jumped 65% from the previous year") because Vista DIDN'T EXIST last year.
You want to do a real study, find out how Vista did vs. XP in terms of quarter-over-quarter earnings jump the first quarter after release. Let's not rely on intentionally-low earnings forecasts from MS that have room for built-in good news. Hell, maybe it would show that Vista is doing better. I really don't care. But let's have some intelligent, unbiased reporting and submissions that don't come from anonymous shills.
Sheesh. Basic logic skills are sorely lacking around here.
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Most investors would GLADLY sacrifice the paltry amount they make in dividends in exchange for the company growing their business (and thusly their stock price).
No! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:No! (Score:5, Insightful)
But every other OS that manages to bump up its marketshare more than 3% is the wave of the future, and the only bandwagon you should be on!
A lot of people seem to think it is harmful to your career to ally oneself with the technology that is still the overwhelming leader in the market. Personally I don't understand that.
It's kind of like being the the transportation industry, and choosing to specialize in bicycles...economically, it is not a very good plan.
Re:No! (Score:5, Insightful)
If you don't understand that I have a fairly comprehensive explanation for you to download.
In quarkXpress 7 format only.
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QuarkXpress was competing with the overwhelming market leader in the design/layout space- Adobe.
Quark is all but forgotten, while Adobe used its position as a market leader to continue to grow and expand. The people on the Quark bandwagon whithered, while those on the Adobe bandwagon continued to thrive.
Re:No! (Score:4, Insightful)
So if you placed all of your important work into the defacto standard of the time, Quark, you'd be a bit behind right now as the industry has mostly moved on. I think what the GP was trying to make a point with, is no companies dominance lasts forever, so try not to tie yourself to heavily to one.
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Quark had one product.
Adobe had a much larger focus, with PhotoShop, Illustrator AND PageMaker/InDesign, as well as fonts, printing, etc.
Eventually their herd of elephants ran right over Quark, and they did it with their muscle in the field.
A single product cannot survive, but dominating an entire field can last much longer.
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Re:No! (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes but there is a difference between a technology causing harm to the industry and causing harm to you personally. For instance if I'm a developer working on Windows I won't be causing myself any harm. In fact I'd probably be helping myself.
A lot of "us" windows developers have been programming on it since before it became the "EVIL SATAN" often portrayed here on slashdot and make an excellent living at it. Can I program on Linux? Sure, I do so all the time at home, programming embedded devices and robots and I've released open source software under GPL license. Maybe one day I'll be able to work on them full time. But right now I work on the "Ford" of the industry. It's not unwise and it's not unethical. It's just reality. We deal with the reality of the industry, and that reality is that Windows dominates the market so it makes economic sense to use it.
I don't align my personal feelings with a technology, it's not wise.
Re:No! (Score:5, Interesting)
Some of "us" old-timers developed software for CP/M systems...or Apple II or Commodores...and made a good living on it too. Those platforms were all market leaders in the PC realm at one point in time and they all faded away in obsolescence. CP/M was not a Microsoft product and was what powered the vast majority of "open architecture" PCs for most of the first decade of the markets existence. It doesn't matter how big a leader one platform is over another, it does NOT make sense to jump on one wagon and dismiss the others. There is nothing wrong with taking advantage of a leading market position, however far too many people doing that neglect the alternatives. People need to broaden their horizons.
Can I program on Linux? Sure, I do so all the time at home, programming embedded devices and robots and I've released open source software under GPL license. Maybe one day I'll be able to work on them full time.
Glad to hear that--especially that you make contributions towards the vast library of Free software out there. That way, you aren't limiting yourself should other opportunities arise in your career. There are already many people making a good living with Free software, and perhaps if (when?) you get bored and/or frustrated with Windows you can seek employment with a company such as IBM or Red Hat or Novell, where thousands of people make a living at computers without windows.
But right now I work on the "Ford" of the industry. It's not unwise and it's not unethical. It's just reality. We deal with the reality of the industry, and that reality is that Windows dominates the market so it makes economic sense to use it.
Sometimes it IS unwise, or even unethical, to stick with "the Ford of the industry". Ford USED to be King, and along came this upstart Japanese company Toyota, at a time when "made in Japan" still meant "cheap junk" to many in America. Fast forward to last year, when Ford LOST over a MILLION dollars PER HOUR and Toyota passed them in market share. This would've never happened if people stuck with Ford because it was the market leader. However, people noticed some superior attributes of Toyota products (fuel efficiency, price, reliability) and Toyota improved quickly in area where it was weak (acceleration, corrosion resistance, etc). In the meantime, Ford rode on its established presence and conentrated on sweeoing its problems under the rug instead of actually fixing them (Hello there Pinto!).
So, in the late 1970s, would've you considered it unwise to buy one of those new Honda Civics instead of a Ford Pinto because Honda was new to the US car market and had a much smaller market share? I'd consider that foolish. I'd rather have bought the Civic and saved on fuel, plus the Civic was somewhat less flammable. Market share be damned...the Civic made more economic sense than a Pinto by far.
Microsoft really IS like Ford and Windows sure drives like a Pinto, and I've seen it crash...and burn...far too often not to look at alternatives. Apple could enjoy a Toyota like renaissance...or perhaps Red Hat or Novell or some company yet to emerge.
To hell with Microsoft "Ford Pinto" Windows. I'm looking at "Toyota Corolla" Fedora, "Honda Civic" SuSE and "Subaru" Ubuntu to see what they have to offer.
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Re:No! (Score:5, Informative)
As for Xerox, well APPLE stole from them, not MS.
Here we go... Xerox invented then ignored the personal computer as we know it and Xerox management didn't "get" that, much like HP didn't "get" the Woz. Xerox was a COPIER company who was playing in computers only because IBM started making COPIERS. Management wasn't serious about computers and was happy enough to sell off the technology.
Apple actually licensed the technology from Xerox and hired some of the design team. I worked for Xerox at the Training Center when all that was going down. Yes, I worked on the Xerox Alto workstations, the Xerox 820-II CP/M machines and even touched a Star 8010 Workstation just before they dumped it all.
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I think it's more like having a bad analogy for a well-undeerstood and exceptional situation that really doesn't need analogies for clarification.
Re:No! (Score:4, Insightful)
A lot of people use Windows not by choice but by the virtue of it's what came with their computer and they don't care to investigate alternatives [even if it's to their benefit].
It's the same reason people eat at fast food joints. It's convenient, around every corner, and seeking out alternatives means they have to do some thinking on their own, which is really scary.
Tom
Re:No! (Score:5, Interesting)
I choose to use Windows because, as a developer, its the most widely installed OS, and God knows, I love the money that comes rolling in from the users of the most widely installed OS. I develop useful applications and web services that don't require my customers to build and learn a new operating system. I let my customers make the choice. (Psst, I also develop on Linux and provide solutions to those customers that make that choice.)
In other words, as someone who likes money and lifestyle, who likes eating, who likes playing, who I choose to go where the money is. Idealism is fine. Personal crusades of windmill tilting are fine, Don. But, in the end, they don't put food on the table, they don't pay for the Hummer, they don't allow you to jet to Fiji for a cool vacation.
I remain flexible, screw idealism and useless and childish OS prejudice.
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We make those kind of decisions all the time and there is nothing wrong with it.
There are probably a lot of windows users who really appreciate that you are a good windows developer.
As a developer, I'm typing on a windows machine right now tho I create java programs. I'm more of a project leader these days tho (havn't coded in months) and I like it. A fixed body of knowledge to learn and master (like the older programming languages) instead of the constant treadmill of
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You can *choose* not to continue to buy games from publishers who don't respect your right to choose an OS (and frankly, I think development in Linux or BSD would be cheaper
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It's "in MSDN", no need for "the". Learning GL means you can use GL on the platform you learned it on. They all have variou
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Our major application is broken because New Windows is not compatible with Old Windows.
It is going to take us several months to fix this. Microsoft is aware of the issue (CSS differences) and has no plan ot address it.
That means we have to have ONE block of code that works in all browsers and another block of code that works in IE7.
Likewise, a couple years ago.. Microsoft completely divorced backwards compatibility in Visual Basic leaving many developers stranded unless they could swing a .
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And a lot of people, at least here at Slashdot, make a good living administering Linux, so being knowledgeable about multiple operating systems is a good th
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> knowledgeable about multiple operating systems is a good thing. If you can make $A administering Windows,
> and $B administering Red Hat, and $C administering FreeBSD, it stands to reason that if you know Windows,
> Red Hat, and FreeBSD, your pay, $D, should be $D > ($A, $B, $C). If Red Hat fell out of favor, you still
> have two other systems you can manage.
Shouldn't that be A$, B$, C$, and D$
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Re:No! (Score:5, Insightful)
As someone who makes a living progamming on different Operating Systems Every Day. There is a definate advantage having skills in the non-market leader products.
First You can charge more.
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My initial point was that many people say that Microsoft is a BAD basket to be in. I personally think this is ridiculous. For a very large percentage of the industry it is a GREAT basket to have your eggs in.
Sure Microsoft's market-share has declined slighly in the recent past. And other OSs have increased slightly. This is not a surprise.
Because people hated my
Re:No! (Score:5, Funny)
Luckily, THIS year is the year of Linux on the desktop, however!
Re:No! (Score:5, Funny)
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> Thus you can always be right.
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Re:No! (Score:5, Funny)
Only 30%? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Only 30%? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Only 30%? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Sketchy figures... (Score:5, Interesting)
So are they counting upgrade coupons as full sales? What if they're never used?
Also, not once do they mention the number of units sold to consumers. Are they including units shipped to stores in their figures, like book publishers do? "We sold 10 million units! 9 million were returned unsold by the stores, however..."
Re:Sketchy figures... (Score:5, Informative)
--
Simon
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Misleading statistics? (Score:2)
If Vista is selling so well, then why don't I know a single person or organisation who's using it?
This seems like one of those situations where the "official" statistics are wildly at odds with the observations of the guy in the street (or the server room). Of course my experience might not be typical, but looking at the comments in on-line forums full of people with an interest in IT, I'm guessing it is.
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Re:Sketchy figures... (Score:5, Funny)
Microsoft had the entire financial industry bamboozled, but nothing gets past the wiz-kids here!
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If Microsoft ships 5 million copies they won't accept them back in bulk.
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The $1.2
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Well, duh. (Score:3, Insightful)
After all, every new PC comes with Vista, if you want it or not (with very few exceptions).
Thus, sales are up. Since Vista is not all that cheap, profits are up.
You're surprised?
Coupons == Stock manipulation? (Score:2, Insightful)
But, I just looked at their insider trading roster and actually Bill Gates sold off a suspiciously large number of shared in Feb. I wonder why? [yahoo.com]
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Doesn't he do that all the time? (Score:3, Informative)
Ahhh-Chooo!!!!!! (Score:4, Funny)
-Will Smith, i-Robot
This is getting old (Score:2, Insightful)
We all know that Vista sales will increase and XP sales will fall. We all know that however much Windows idiots say "I'm sticking with XP," it's really not their decision. They'll get Vista with their next computer, and they'll like it, because that's the only choice they'll have. And if not the next computer, certainly the one after that because the hardware won't be supported in XP.
So can we please stop getting these articles about Vista sales? It doesn't really matter. In 5 years Vista will be j
XP will be supported longer than you think. (Score:2)
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People Calling People Idiots -- (Score:2)
Expectations (Score:5, Interesting)
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Wall Street Analysts lowered their expectations... undoubtedly from reading Slashdot. Microsoft knew this and therefore came up with the whole profit deferment scheme so they'd come out beating market expectations and their stock price would get a significant bump. Let's wait and see what their next earnings report looks like... I suspect it won't be nearly as nice.
Maybe Vista does make sense (Score:5, Insightful)
Windows XP is a very mature operating system. People rarely experience lockups (I haven't had one for months), it looks OK, it's speedy with today's hardware and it is far more secure than it was a few years ago.
The point is that XP is good to those who currently use it. Those who want 'more' just get Vista. Maybe XP and Vista is going to co-exist longer than any of MS:es previous operating systems ever have before, simply because both products are good (or at least Vista will be in half a year or so). Previously, we had 2K and XP competing, and before that 9x/Me and 2K, where we had a clear winner in both operating systems. Now I can't say that Vista is a clear winner to XP, but rather a good 'alternative'.
Yes, Ubuntu and OSX are great alternatives, but it takes a lot to make a user switch an operating system entirely, so I am not taking this into account.
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Why do I say you'll love it as an administrator? Well let's just put aside for one second our gripes about Microsoft and the fact that they are a monopoly and just focus on comparing it to XP...
What is one of the most nagging, worst things that a system admin
Hmm, this is odd... (Score:5, Funny)
Someone had better tell Ballmer (Score:4, Informative)
Then someone had better tell Ballmer. He's been saying forecasts were over-optimistic:
"Ballmer's comments came during a conference call with financial analysts in which he repeatedly hammered home the theme that sales forecasts for Windows -- Vista in particular -- have been "overly optimistic."
http://www.arnnet.com.au/index.php/id;7680622;fp;
Obviously, Ballmer thinks people's "expectations" were "overly optimistic"; now we're being told they were overly pessimistic. There's a disconnect somewhere.
If you charge an arm and a leg, yes (Score:2)
and they were making Dell and other producers PUSH these with new computers. it wasnt like customers had any choice. but then again, dell did not turn on their customers and switched back to providing xp again.
so how this is a pointer to anything ?
I am not worried about vista selling. (Score:2)
As long as I can run a linux distro, if the rest of the universe prefers hogging down their hardware with vista, it's not my business.
just proves one thing (Score:2)
FUD! (Score:2, Funny)
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a) Vista seems to not be as well received.
b) Numbers like these dn't have much meaning by themselves.
c) They have deffered expenses to forth qtr.
There are several reasons for a company to do that, but considering MSs available cash and size, the ONLY reason for them to do that is to try and keep investors around another quarter and to have more time to push Vista in hopes of making up the difference.
This explains some of MSs moves in the last month or so. Based on some market advisors* is Vista does
The Expectations Game (Score:2)
The performance is measured against Microsoft's public predictions. The stock market punishes severely any company that underperforms the predictions, thus, there is a real incentive to understate expectations, if one can still show growth.
So, is Vista a failure if it causes more XP licenses to sell? Money is money, one may argue. I expect that Microsoft really thinks about targets for the cash cow products not in terms of revenue goals, but in terms of installed base goals. If we see Vista discount pricin
M$ is lying (Score:4, Informative)
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For those who have ordered new computers, 100% of them have said they will be erasing and putting XP on the new machine.
The only thing about that is that Microsoft still gets to count each of those PCs as a Vista Sale and those dollars will go into their till. If they buy a copy of XP to put on those machines, then Microsoft wins again. Even if Vista is wiped and Ubuntu is put on the machine, the Vista sale still goes into the books.
The only way to avoid paying the "Vista tax" is to buy or build a PC wit
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I can also explain the reasoning behind not upgrading. Many software applications do not run properly on Vista. Some require software upgrades. Schools have to roll out a lot of money to get new versions of software if they even exist. I am a sys admin for a computer science department. (labs + servers) We are 50/50 Mac/PC. We have
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A. G. EDWARDS & SONS, INC. KEVIN BUTTIGIEG
ARGUS RESEARCH CORP. ROBERT BECKER
ATLANTIC EQUITIES CHRISTOPHER HICKEY
BANC OF AMERICA SECURITIES LLC. KIRK S. MATERNE
BEAR, STEARNS & CO. JOHN DIFUCCI
CANACCORD ADAMS PETER MISEK
CIBC WORLD MARKETS CORP. BRAD REBACK
CITIGROUP BRENT THILL
COWEN AND CO
Simple Explanations (Score:4, Funny)
1) Vista is actually being well received, and selling like hotcakes despite all reports to the contrary.
2) Even MS-Excel has critical bugs when running under Vista, especially the version used by Microsoft's accounting department.
Except in China (Score:2)
And how many times... (Score:2, Interesting)
Fas as whether MS is "dying," that's a bit of a tautology. When you're the dominant operating system of planet Earth, where do you go next? Mars needs Windows? There is only one direction for them to go and it ain't up.
You know, IBM beat back the government's anti-trust suit against them only to, in time, reso
Might not be ALL real numbers.... (Score:4, Interesting)
He IS NOT a geek. But he does all his work and some photo stuff on his notebook and desktop. He HATED Vista. No driver for the printer, some software he uses won't work, had trouble with the camera etc... He was pretty pi$$ed when I talked to him... I told him maybe we could get Dell to give us XP and send Vista back and that would fix everything... (he has XP on the laptop and its OK :)
I tried to get Dell to trade it in, or give me credit, a discount on XP or something like that... but they blew me off and told me that I would have to send back the machine so I could then order the "open source" version. I talked to my dad and he just went nuts for a while and them said he would take care of it... So I figured that he was going to send back the machine and let me build one for him...
NOPE - he gave M$ more money and they also have another "Vista" user on the books... He went out and just bought a full version of XP. I didn't say anything other than OK I'll be up and get it loaded for ya... You have to know my dad... I already found all the drivers that he needs for XP. So everything should be fine.....
BUT IT JUST SUCKS!!!! I freakin HATE MS for this kind of stuff. Did you know that you CAN NOT downgrade Vista Home(any version) to XP - BUT the business versions are ALL downgradeable. You wouldn't want FORD to not buy windows because they have to use the CUTTING EDGE CRAP that we will be QCing for them for the next six months. BUT its OK to screw joe user at home!!! I dont know why they would even make some one PAY for an OS at home.... I guess that 70trillion dollars a year from the businesses just ins't enough.
I would love to load BSD/ubuntu/etc... on my pops machine - I really would. But he's 60ish and NOT a geek and its just not there yet.
Yea M$ sales are up and they should have a column on the sheet that is headed "Customers outright screw and we still made money."
Geesh, I should learn how to write code so I can contrib...
Duke
Excuses, Excuses (Score:2)
Remember (Score:3, Insightful)
This goes for ANY company:
When a company seems to be doing better then the market indicates, look at the numbers very closly.
Were there 'expectations' lower than reasonable? Are they counting units moved to outlets, or the unit's then sold?
What is there deal with outlets? can they return unsold stock*? How many lisenses did DELL purchase that it's not using?
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Windows is for sissies (Score:2, Interesting)
There will always be a lot of sissies, that use "computers". And computers are those with this cute start button in the left corner, right. The reality is, that those are the majority of the people. This is a fact.
So there was this previous Wins family and there will be the Vista generation. Very few will actually pay for it (predominantly those who must), but most of earthlings will use it. What can we do about the stupidity of earthlings ? Do we have to do something ? Maybe we should.
Oh.....nevermind! (Score:2)
RTFM (Score:2)
Clearly this is an invester hand job* . lets see what the end of Q1 has to say.
*actually MA term. seriously, I hear it all the time.
Vista Sales Strong, Higher Than Expected (Score:2, Funny)
If You Lie, You Die Inside... (Score:2)
If MS is lying, or even overstating its earnings, it will be just a matter of time before bad things catch up with them. Witness the Apple CFO [slashdot.org] mess.
On the other hand, if their earnings reflect the positive reception of Vista, then good for them. As far as I'm concerned, the more OSs there are to play with, the merrier any geek will be (by discovering something new and shiny, or by making $ from fixing people's machines because of various OS "features").
I
The only "Vista Sales" story (Score:2)
My Boss bought a new laptop. It came with Vista.
There was not one 3rd-party thing we were currently using which worked on the laptop.
There were several Microsoft Products which did not work on the laptop. (read: everything that came pre-installed seemed to be working, nothing we had, and required (like Office and Visual Studio) worked.)
So he installed XP and everything works now.
Vista "sales" number
what I find funny (MS still doing quite well) (Score:3, Interesting)
Anonymous-Astroturf=0? (Score:3, Funny)
An anonymous reader from http://marketing.microsoft.com/Vista/PhaseII/Oh_S
Not quite... (Score:2)
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Oh come on. If it really were crap, then you wouldn't have 99% of major commercial software vendors targeting it as a primary platform.
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Remember: He who controls the present controls the past, and he who controls the past controls the future...
Oh yeah, and the Ministry of Plenty is pleased to announce that the weekly chocolate ration has just been increased to 10 Grams a week
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