Microsoft to Charge for Office Beta 190
theodp writes "Beginning next Wednesday, those who download the 2007 Microsoft Office system Beta 2 will be charged $1.50 per download, according to a Microsoft spokeswoman." From the article: "Although Microsoft's Information Worker Product Management Group decided to initiate a fee for new users of Beta 2, the "technical refresh," or update, for current users of the software will remain free, the spokeswoman said. Those who want to test drive Beta 2 to review how it works can access the software for free. But if they need to test it against their internal systems, a download or the CD is required. "
How is any different? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:How is any different? (Score:2, Insightful)
Maybe this is why they're charging - so they actually get something from the people who would download the beta and keep using it rather than buying the full version, or dissuade them from downloading the beta at all.
They must be assuming those people are pretty cheap. They might be right.
Re:How is any different? (Score:5, Interesting)
He says that if you pirate software (or otherwise get it free) then you have no vested interest in making sure it works for you. If you come across a problem with something you paid nothing for, you are less likely to try very hard to get it resolved.
However, once you have paid for something the mindset becomes "why isn't my program working".
Don't know if this is the case with microsoft, but it kindof makes sense.
Re:How is any different? (Score:2)
I have a game, let's call it Black & White 2, that works on Athlon XP 2000 with 512MB ram and nVidia FX series video card. Great! Now, move it to Athlon 64 X2 4400 with 2GB and 7900GT video card and it craps out. It doesn't even start! What did I do with it? Nothing. Uninstalled it. And yes, I payed $50 for it and it is about the same as the first one...
Now, I recently upgraded linux to 2.6.17 SMP from 2.6.16 UP (uni-processor) kernel. Well, all hell broke loose with system calls. Suddenly, select(
Re:How is any different? (Score:2, Insightful)
We both know that you wouldn't even hear about the SMP problem from a normal person, they would tell you its not working and follow the brief description with "but it works fine in Windows", and thats the rare percentage that would even install linux.
If you are the sysadmin of a company with linux machines, its your job to make sure its working and you would be the one receiving the phone calls or error mails telling you its not, there is no persona
Re:How is any different? (Score:2)
Isn't there a timeout on the beta version, so they stop working after a few months?
Re:How is any different? (Score:2)
That is opposed to the continuous alpha testing that all users of open source software do?
Re:How is any different? (Score:2)
Simply because alpha quality OSS is not tested by ALL OSS users as you state. For example in Debian only the experimental branch might be tagged "alpha", people using any other branch, the majority, have mature beta to production quality stuff. Oh and for the "having to pay" thing too.
Re: How is any different? (Score:2)
Last time I checked, nothing is requiring people to use Open Source software at all, much less OSS which is in alpha. If you choose to use OSS, that's exactly what's going on-- your choice-- and it's obviously possible to use production-quality OSS like Apache or Firefox/T'bird. Just what do you think Slashdot runs on, hmm?
Re:How is any different? (Score:2)
Fair comment, and I would happily pay the same for the latest beta as I am prepared to pay for the final product... but I think that 1.50 is a bit much to ask people. In fact when they bring out a Linux version I will be able to make a choice to not buy it (I will not hold my breath).
Re:How is any different? (Score:5, Funny)
I'm just happy that they've finally settled on a realistic price point for office.
MICROSOFT RUNNING OUT OF MONEY, GATES TOOK IT ALL (Score:2)
No wonder Gates has decided to gracefully bow out and go into his charity work fulltime. He knows his days of pirating other peoples' ideas are over. There's nothing left to pirate. They already pirated windows
makes sense (Score:2, Funny)
Yaaaaarrr (Score:2, Informative)
charging for a favor? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:charging for a favor? (Score:4, Interesting)
The peopl eit will deter (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, for a company, or even a serious individual, $1.50 is peanuts. I can gaurentee we'll pick up a few copies at work to test, though in our setup there is very little we need ot test agianst.
Remember MS has internal testers, lots of them, who's entire job is to test the software and find bugs. Public betas aren't because they don't have testers, they are more for public commentary on features and impementation, and more importantly so people can test new MS stuff against their configuration. With Vista, for example, MS was well aware of the bugs in it. They weren't releasing it because they thought it was perfect, they were releasing it because they thought it was good enough to be useful for people to test with.
In MS speak, an RC, Release Candidate, is when their internal testers think a product is ready to go. They release that to the public, or a limited set for testing against the multitude of configs. If serious problems are found, they do another RC, if not that RC goes final.
So I think MS would be plenty happy to get rid of the casual downloaders that eat up bandwidth and, if they file reports at all, file things like "T3h program si crashing on me!!!1111". Well duh, it's beta. They'd like to know what is happening to make that happen, though they already may know about it. they are more interested in letting you test it against your setup, and figure out what you need to do to be ready for it.
Re:The peopl eit will deter (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course, if the $1.50 charge now brings a $10 or whateve
Re:The peopl eit will deter (Score:3, Insightful)
When MS releases something they call a beta
Re:The peopl eit will deter (Score:2)
Basically people don't value what they don't spend money on.
Re:The peopl eit will deter (Score:2)
Well, for a company, or even a serious individual, $1.50 is peanuts.
Yes, but it's not $1.50. Don't know how they're organising it but it's likely to be $100 or more when you factor in the staff time and bureaucracy to make the payment.
Depending on context the convenience+cost difference between a free download and something costing 0.01c, or having any other paperwork, can be significant.
Bureaucrats often don't appreciate this, in part because a person's time has little value for them.
---
Vista: A
Re:charging for a favor? (Score:5, Insightful)
They don't download it to test it. They download it to be cooler than everyone else. To have the new, bleeding-edge stuff.
So, MS probably isn't getting much useful data about bugs, certainly, if it's this many people, they only need a fraction of them. Instead, they have thousands of users of buggy software, and since they're chasing off a reputation for buggy software, they probably don't really want this.
So, $1.50. You get software really cheaply (minus support, though, they'll probably be nagged into it), and they get fewer yahoos, a laughable amount of money, and justification for this.
Don't forget, a lot of the beta testers will just run the betas, and not purchase the actual product. Why get the newest version of office for a couple hundred? You can get the beta for free. Now that it's $1.50, most people will probably stick to the version that came with their computer.
That's why. Even a small company can appreciate that this many beta testers is not a favor of any kind, except perhaps for publicity's sake.
Re:charging for a favor? (Score:2)
Re:charging for a favor? (Score:2)
And I
Beta testing. (Score:2)
Re:charging for a favor? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Bandwidth ! (Score:4, Insightful)
I wanted to joke if microsoft wants to cover bandwidth charges.....but seems thats the real reason !!
FTFA:
Not just $1.50 (Score:5, Insightful)
I really wish credit card issuers would let us use bogus values for that information. They need it on file to bill you and contact you in an emergency like the cancellation/disablement of your card due to fraud. But for all the merchants, that info is just a fancy password to authenticate you with. But it also suffers from the same problems that SS#'s do - its a password that isn't really a secret, especially the more frequently you use your card.
Fresh from under a rock, aren't we? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Not just $1.50 (Score:5, Informative)
I have been using it for years. However, those numbers primarily protect the card issuer by reducing fraud. They don't do anything to protect your privacy - you still use must use your real name, real phone number and real billing address.
And, to meander far off topic -- the numbers are good for only one merchant, not only one charge - the first merchant to bill it gets a "lock" that prevents any other merchants from billing it. So you can pay for subscription services with one charge number. You can even increase the limit and expiration date after the fact.
But, in my experience the only personally valuable use is to prevent automatic charging like you described, that's a good thing for me. For example - giganews does not offer a monthly service, you can only sign-up for an account that auto-renews each month. Since their retention is 90 days or so, I don't need continuous service. So, I give them a card# good for one month, they try to renew and fail and put my account on hold. When I am ready to start using them again, I just give them a new card# good for another month. I end up getting effectively a whole year's worth of service for about half the price by only renewing every other month.
It's also good for those magazine subs where the first year is $1 but the subsequent ones are full cover price and they would normally automatically bill you for the renewal without asking. Some of them are so shady that they won't even honor unsubscribe requests, taking them on the phone and then pretending they never got them. They can't pull that stunt if you pay with one of these numbers instead.
Re:Not just $1.50 (Score:2)
This is a download, no shipping required. Lots of stuff gets purchased online with no physical product delivery. Subscription websites like Consumer Reports, The Economist and Wallstreet Journal, Pr0n, etc. Domain names, web hosting. Premium usenet servers. Itunes (ugg
6 months of a several-hundred-dollar product... (Score:2)
Re:6 months of a several-hundred-dollar product... (Score:2)
What about $2 per month? Pretty good, too, right? In fact, I bet that anyone willing to pay $2 per month for it is willing to pay $4 instead.
If the price went up to just $5 a month, would that $1 difference really make you change your mind? Besides, by that time, you would have several documents written in the proprietary Office file formats and you wouldn't want to lose access to those documents, would you? In fact, I reckon you would be
Re:6 months of a several-hundred-dollar product... (Score:2)
Except when it doesn't.
If this is about bandwidth costs... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:If this is about bandwidth costs... (Score:2)
Hey, that sounds like a cunning plan. In half a year increase beta download cost to $5. And say "Pay $5 to download now or upgrade to Vista and use Avalanche do download for free".
$1.50 (Score:2)
<stainlesssteelcap> (Score:5, Interesting)
Microsoft is doing this not to offset bandwidth costs - well, maybe not just to offset bandwidth costs. They're doing this to test a newer method of buying MS software, a method that gets the general public used to the idea of continuously paying for Office, then Windows, then probably MS's entire software line.
Imagine, thirty days down the road from time of purchase of a surprisingly cheap copy of Office you get a little pop-up notice telling you that you need to re-register Office, all for the low cost of $1.50.
Every month you get this little notice, and you re-register. It's just a buck-fifty right?
Hmm. Let's say you use the same copy of Office, purchased for the low, low! price of $49.95, for two years. Every month you pay that meager $1.50.
49.95 + (24 x 1.50) = $85.95
Not much compared to the current cost for Office Retail, but what about Windows, MS Anti-virus/Spyware, Age of Empires IV...
Let's say Windows is the same price as Office - that's another $85.95 - and the Anti-virus is just marginally cheaper - $24 = 24 x $1.
$85.95 x 2 + $24 = $195.90
$195.90, every two years, paid by people who are likely to purchase their computer pre-made with Windows and Office already installed.
I have no official reason to believe this, that's just my take on the situation.
</stainlesssteelcap>
People value things more when charged. (Score:5, Insightful)
As pointed out above, most of the people who were prepared to download this beta software for free probably already have. Now this announcement that a charge will be imposed will have 2 effects.
There's the aforementioned use of credit card details to build up an interested customer base (and I wouldn't be surprised if there was an accompanying list of people to put through a BSA audit should they not subsequently purchase an upgrade).
I wouldn't be surprised if $1.50 wasn't even enough to cover the cost of implementing a charging infrastructure ; after transaction charges, server costs, implementation, project documentation, etc.
Re:People value things more when charged. (Score:3, Insightful)
I think that's the primary reason. Even a trivial amount of money transforms the downloader's mentality from that of "free stuff" to "paying customer." It helps them get a bigger ROI (investment being both bandwidth and time spent sifting through feedback).
Re:People value things more when charged. (Score:2)
Thankyou for your important contribution to our beta test program. Your feedback has been invaluble to us. We would like to reward your contribution by offering you the chance to upgrade to the full release version for the low low price of....
This offer is only available to members of microsofts official beta test program.
Why do you all hate microsoft? (Score:5, Funny)
On the Microsoft hatred topic...why the heck is there so much anti-microsoft sentiments, so much so that visual studio has been excluded from schools? Is it because Bill is a serious competitor against the NATO governments for leader of Earth? (As the richest (or second richest) person he controls a large number of people through paying them to do things, and can control a large amount of the earths production both directly and indirectly through financial manipulation) From what I've read of his books he's very anti-government and pro-freedom, and I'd think you'd all think he was cool.
Re:Why do you all hate microsoft? (Score:2)
Re:Why do you all hate microsoft? (Score:2)
I use Word for one reason only - as a business owner I get contracts that are marked up with Word's Track Changes feature and I need to see those.
So free is useless if it does not meet requirements. Free is great when it does (Apache/Linux/Adium and a thousand other things)
Re:Why do you all hate microsoft? (Score:5, Interesting)
I started out liking Microsoft. My disaffect grew out of seeing the
installer for Windows ( I think 3.1 ) tell me that the OS/2 install that
I had on my machine was something I should remove cause it was just
taking up space. The wording was something I recall as being very
likely for someone unexperienced to decide to remove it. The years
of hearing from Microsoft that their products where enterprise ready,
when they just were not. The Stac and Novell DR Dos issues were not
handled with honor, in my opinion. The 94 consent decree, all but
ignored. The issue of coercing OEM's into the "pay for a license for
every machine that leaves the building, or pay more, regardless of
what is actually on the machine" ( how can the "free market" decide in
the face of a built in price step like that ). All the nonsense about
"this is about removing our ability to innovate" on the last round
of anti trust legal wrangling. Running Netscape out of business for
the most part, then having the gall to say that the aquisition of Netscape
by AOL was proof that there was plenty of freedom and competition. The
decision to embed IE deeper into the system, a stupid decision, excepting
for how it allowed them to manipulate things legally. Microsoft's talk
of innovation, but constantly seeing others break trail, only to have
Microsoft come in later and "take their lunch" ( then complaining about
Google taking their lunch, when the only reason there is competition
between Google and Microsoft, is because Microsoft decided to enter
Google's market niche. Which brings me to the point of Microsoft seeming
to need to enter every niche in existance, to make it so that Microsoft
is the only company left standing ( yeah, they havent succeeded, but it
isnt because they havent tried ). The reduction of innovation that the
preceeding point brings ( yeah, I'm going to invest in your startup,
but first, how are you going to keep Microsoft from taking it all from
you, if you prove this is a winner ). All the hoopla about Microsoft
innovating, when the real effect is the opposite. I could go on, but
I think I have hit the high notes.
Hate them? No, not really. But I dont like them, nor the effect that they
have had. No, that effect has not been 100% bad, but it could have been
so much better.
Re:Why do you all hate microsoft? (Score:3, Insightful)
What?
I ask that in all seriousness, at least for Word. I haven't used Word Perfect since it came with one of those strips you put above your function keys that told you what they all did alone, with alt, with ctrl, and with shift because there weren't menus because it was a curses-like interface with no mouse. So it's possible that it's better. But is there anything else? Really? (And don't say OO Writer or I'll toss my head back
Re:Why do you all hate microsoft? (Score:2)
This doesn't make a lot of sense (Score:2)
Re:This doesn't make a lot of sense (Score:3, Funny)
This doesn't seem particuarly evil. (Score:3, Interesting)
The one thing that bothers me about this is that they haven't considered P2P. They say the price is to offset the cost of downloading from their servers. Well, why don't they offer the beta via BitTorrent for free and just charge for downloading from their servers? I reallize their cost still wouldn't be zero per download but it should be quite small and acceptable.
Re:This doesn't seem particuarly evil. (Score:2)
Re:This doesn't seem particuarly evil. (Score:2)
You can read the e-mail he got from them at the thread here; http://forums.fedor [fedoraforum.org]
Re:This doesn't seem particuarly evil. (Score:2)
Re:This doesn't seem particuarly evil. (Score:2)
Re:This doesn't seem particuarly evil. (Score:2)
Beta 3 (Score:5, Funny)
For what it's worth.... (Score:4, Funny)
But it still is not as much of a bargain as OpenOffice.
Re:For what it's worth.... (Score:2)
Full circle... (Score:5, Insightful)
In recent years, people could beta-test software (such as GMail, Windows, and IE7) for free.
Now we are paying to become the beta-testers!!
Re:Full circle... (Score:5, Insightful)
For me it's not about hunting bugs, it's about being educated.
Because I want to stay on top of my game, and tell my clients what to expect with the next round of software, I'd be willing to pay, too.
Re:Full circle... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Full circle... (Score:2)
Re:Full circle... (Score:2)
It's not the bandwidth (Score:5, Insightful)
Despite what we say about them, however, Microsoft is still a group of professionals. Before releasing a product, they have to make a list of every known bug and decide that every bug still in the program on release is not important enough to fix. They have to view every bug report. They are probably overwhelmed right now.
OSS (Score:2, Insightful)
Action Pack (Score:3, Informative)
Alright... I'll pay the $1.50 (Score:2, Funny)
New Business model? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:New Business model? (Score:2)
I wonder if they submitted a patent for this, too? (Score:2)
*shrugs* Why should I care about a non-event? (Score:2)
I don't need to spend my time with Microsoft's beta releases (there's no critical need in my work that they address), and I'll see it when it's fully released and my employer's IT department rolls it out. So ... what's in it for me?
And on my home machine I don't have Office ... I'm happily using Open Office. No hassle with licenses, it's free, and it runs on both Linux and Windows.
So err ... to me this is a bit of a non-event really. How about you?
And in other news (Score:2)
Re:$1.50? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:$1.50? (Score:3, Insightful)
"From one of the richest cash companies im the world who owns the Office? Yeah! Pinching pennies, are they?"
Correct. This is exactly how they became so wealthy.
Re:$1.50? (Score:4, Interesting)
$1.50? Bullshit. Unless the betas are non-expiring, it's test software. Why should we pay to test their software? If they want to test on a wide scale they need to figure it into the budget or stop and use a sign-up method.
Three million downloads? Big deal. They act like that's a lot these days. Other companies get away with it, and don't charge more.
It's just a show of how belligerent they've become to their customer base. They know they'll sell a bazillion copies of it, so they really don't give a shit.
Re:$1.50? (Score:2)
Then don't. If only 1/5th of the people who already downloaded continue to use it in a manner that allows Microsoft to test the bugs, they'll be happy.
Re:$1.50? (Score:2)
Lemme see if I can do something like that... wait... oh, I got it:
"Microsoft fans: a bunch of retards who are actually *paying* real money to the richest company in the world for the privilege of becoming their beta tester"
It's not as good as yours, I'm affraid, and it's too long, but at least it's just as stupid and stomach-turning-ignorant.
Do you, at le
Re:$1.50? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:$1.50? (Score:2)
Re:$1.50? (Score:2)
Re:$1.50? (Score:3, Insightful)
They could just put it up on bittorrent and it would't cost them a dime. Of course that would require common sense.
Re:$1.50? (Score:5, Insightful)
Not only will you be assimilated, but you're going to damn well pay for the privilege.
Charles
Re:$1.50? (Score:2)
I'll take the odds that the downloader has at least five to ten years experience with MS Office and is already on the MS contact lists.
Re:$1.50? (Score:2)
To cover the cost of the credit card transaction.
Duh.
Re:$1.50? (Score:2)
Probably they think of Wine compatibility....
"need to test it against their internal systems" sounds as if there was an operating system problem or a problem with your machine, provided it does not run the app beta.
I guess providers of alternative operating systems such as Reactos or users of compatibility layers such as Wine are addressed here. Or users or producers of special braille devices and other addons etc
Re:$1.50? (Score:2, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Why have a new version? (Score:2)
I suppose the one difference that has mattered to me at times was the file formats. Sometimes taking a proprietary doc file from OpenOffice to Word (or vice-versa) will stuff it up, somehow. This is more of a bug than a missing feature, and the bug is due to Microsoft's fi
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Why have a new version? (Score:2)
We all (including Microsoft) know that if OpenOffice had 100% compatibility with MS Office, Microsoft would then be in an extremely vulnerable position. It's understandable that they don't want
Re:Why have a new version? (Score:2)
Re:Why have a new version? (Score:2)
I don't doubt the average user would be just as happy with an old version of Office, or OpenOffice for that matter. However what gets people is the evolving document format. If I save a document in Office 2003's format, you need Office 2003 to open it up. That is the primary reason most people buy
Re:Why have a new version? (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm a professional writer, and I use much less of a word processor's feature set that you'd probably expect: an even shorter list than yours. But some tools are just fundamental, like word count: the only thing that kept me away from OpenOffice and on Office for ages was simply the lack of a good word
Re:Why have a new version? (Score:2)
Dicipline? I'll be honest... I just got done writing an I/O scheduler for Linux, and my opinion has gone down a bit of the project. One of the big straws that broke the camel's back was the time I spent trying to figure out why gcc was giving me an error on the declaration of a variable 'current.' I spent 10 minutes trying to Google the error message to no avail. After 20 or 30 minutes of puzzling, searching, and cursing, it occured to me that it m
Re:Why have a new version? (Score:2)
IMO macros should be uppercase all the time. Breaking that rule causes issues.
Prepare a serious document (Score:2)
Tables (and their formatting)
Styles
Equations
indentation
Hyperlinks
headers
footers
watermarks
embedded objects from other apps
Document metadata (author etc.)
Columns
Margins
Page orientation
Borders
line Spacing
Table of contents
End notes
Add comments
Track changes
Now putting all of those features, plus the ones in your list, and some power features for people like Mail M
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Why have a new version? (Score:2)
On excel, I have a spreadsheet that pulls stock prices from various websites and performs various calculations on them. As far as I can see, OpenOffice.org can't do that.