The End of Net Anonymity In Brazil 242
DieNadel writes, "The Brazilian senate is considering a bill that will make it a crime to join a chat, blog, or download from the Internet without fully identifying oneself first. Privacy groups and Internet providers are very concerned, and are trying to lobby against the bill, but it seems they won't have much success." From the article: "If approved, it will be a crime, punishable with up to 4 years of jail time, to disseminate virus or trojans, unauthorizedly access data banks or networks and send e-mail, join chat, write a blog or download content anonymously."
So remember boys and girls... (Score:2, Funny)
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"I used to, but I got sick of angry letters from Catholics."
Better.
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Re:So remember boys and girls... (Score:4, Funny)
You will get to practice unzip, touch, finger, grep, strip, mount. And last but not least, fsck, dump and sleep
Holy Smokes (Score:2)
So many, many ways around this. (Score:4, Insightful)
Secondly, there are so many ways around this when you are a criminal. Crack someone else's machine and you can do whatever you want as if you were legally that person. Who stupid is that?
If you're really good, you'd crack 2 machines outside Brazil and use them to bounce traffic around before it got to you. Your machine and record would be 100% clean.
Finally, let's talk wireless. Unless the government wants to crack down on unsecured wireless connections, they're going to lose this one.
This is nothing more than an attempt to scare the good citizens into self-censoring their legal activities. And that is disgusting.
Re:So many, many ways around this. (Score:4, Insightful)
If we paid attention to that logic, we'd have 50% fewer laws than we do.
Not that you're wrong, of course, just that passing laws is how the government proves it's Doing Something, irrespective of wheter the law does anything other than screw the innocent.
And I don't think this varies appreciably from government to government.
I think we need to change that. (Score:3, Insightful)
So, how about if all the laws on the books had a limited life span? After 8 years (or 16 or 32 or whatever), they expired and needed to be passed again?
That way Congress could continue to "be tough on X" without needing to do any actual work or impact our Freedoms at all?
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i'm all for repealing more laws than introducing but come on, it's hard enough keeping up already !
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What's there to crack down on? If someone is allowing someone to use their open access point to conduct illegal activities then they are just as guilty as the person that committed the crime. Either keep detailed logs and require a login and encryption to use your access point so you can prove who was using it at the time or face the consequences. I am 100% for punishi
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I guess you'll have to identify yourself on internet cafes in Brazil, then. And internet cafes will then have to make a list who was sitting at which computer at which time.
Are you sure the judges
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Seriously, if a law like this passed in the US I would have so much fun breaking into people's machines that I don't like and doing all kinds of illegal activities on them so I can send them to jail. Finally, the IT geeks will have their day as lords!!!
Now does anyone know a certain "shoot them in the face" bird hunting VP's IP a
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Umm by definition if you do something that is not illegal, you are not a criminal UNTIL the law is passed that makes it illegal. Only then are you a "criminal".
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For example there is inherently nothing really wrong about accessing the net anonymously. What Brazil is a afraid of is the stuff you MIGHT do if you are anonymous. But you can be sure that anyone who is hacking a computer
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Furthermore... how do you meaningfully define where "the Internet" begins and ends? How about a wireless mesh network that doesn't have any physical connection to the (now corporatized and bureacratized to the point of practical uselessness "Series of Tubes" Internet) but happens to use TCP/IP? How about BBS's? (Not too popular these days, but might see a resurgence i
What about kids? (Score:3, Interesting)
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Of course not. Only "undesirables" will be put on trial, why else would you criminalize most of the population and in particular the intelligensia? If they wanted to catch all, they could just set up a huge sign in the city center saying "prison".
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To which you replied:
and in particular the intelligensia?
Hahahahahahaha thanks for the laugh! Are you inferring that slashdot is the "intelligensia"? Funniest thing I've heard all week!
MOD PARENT UP!!!
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No, but unless Brazil has changed very much in the last few years since I was there, if you're on internet regularly then you're probably fairly well off, or you are taking higher education. I guess that sounds funny to you and me (we've got 50% broadband coverage here, don't remember Internet in general). China isn't building their firewall just for fun either.
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The users will only have internet access after supplying name, address, phone number and identity number to the ISP, who would then verify this information. Both the user and the ISP can be charged if they fail to do this properly.
I live in Brazil, and this is what I could find so far.
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If your access is not anonymous; i.e. Your IP --> Your identity, you can't post anonymously, you can't read a blog anoymously, you can't do ANYTHING anonymously.
Usenet? (Score:2)
When all Usenet posts are legit I'll believe it.
In other words, the only people this will affect are those who do take precautions to adequately hide themselves, those ignorant of the law, and those where the government just wants to tack on 4 more years!
How long until anomyity is a crime world wide? (Score:2)
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Terry Gilliam Was Right? (Score:2)
Don't Brazil Bash (Score:2)
What is PSDB-MG, anyway? Piece of Shit Damn British MG?
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How much do you want to bet that he's expecting a big juicy check in US dollars from the **AA's, or Microsoft, or both. Piracy is a BIG problem in Brazil. Almost everything is pirated.
and I know Jack about how the political system in Brazil works
Oh it's like the US, you can buy all the politicians you want, only in Brazil, it's cheaper.
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But I'd assume, like Asia, that most piracy is via optical disc. Why spend a week downloading when you can buy 5GB discs of music, software, whatever at $1/disc more or less? Online piracy maybe for MP3 tunes and such smallish files.
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Because you can spend a week downloading, and then SELL!
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No way I'll spend a week downloading just to sell. I prefer to buy a CD right around the next corner, copy and sell it here anyway.
Note: I do not pirateRe: (Score:2)
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I've lived in Brazil years ago. I think you're right that this isn't going to pass, but from what I remember, if it doesn't pass it'll be because of technical arguments, not because of privacy ones. I always complained that Brazilians were especially prone to "think of the children" arguments, but I guess I've been seeing si
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Nonetheless, there is no party fidelity in Brazil and the politicians keep changing from one party to another one, so this doesn't represent anything at all. Indeed, this Senator is really insane (and probably corrupted).
Re:Don't Brazil Bash (Score:4, Informative)
This is slashdot, and you didn't think a question like that would go unanswered, did you ?
PSDB is Partido da Social Democracia Brasileira (http://www.psdb.org.br/ [psdb.org.br]) translates to the Brazilian Socio-Democracy Party. MG stands for Minas Gerais, the state Senator Azeredo represents.
As a Brazilian I should add:
* PSDB is the leading opposition party in Brazil. Its candidate just lost the presidential race (39% to 61%).
* Normally I wouldn't think this sort of thing to come out of PSDB (usually more liberal than the government). But heck...
* Mr Azeredo has been involved in an unrelated corruption scandal after proposing the law ("valerioduto").
* I also do not agree with such a law, as many brazilians don't (babelfish this, for instance: A Liberdade da Rede corre Perigo [ig.com.br])
* This law may not pass (be approved) -- I hope it won't.
* Even if it does, it may not be enforceable, as someone here already pointed out -- Freenet comes to mind.
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Freenet does not help here. Freenet is not capable of hiding the fact that you're running Freenet from your ISP. Therefore, running Freenet would make you an immediate suspect. In fact, since the whole purpose of Freenet is publishing and viewing information anonymously, and your node is likely to route queries and inserts from other people, running Freenet would almost certainly make you guilty of a
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Have you heard about prizon riots in Sao Paulo - Brazil? PSDB is the party that have governed Sao Paulo State for the past 12 years, and will govern Sao Paulo State for the next 4 years. Eduardo Azeredo was president of the PSDB party (and founder) until he renounced this year, after he declared he received money channelled from the government in backdoor business deals, through Marcos Valerio.
Laws in Brazil are usually proposed in response of something that happened. The text of the projects
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What makes you think the Brazilians are so much less gullible than the Americans?
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Patriot act, Guantanamo prisoners without trial, war in Iraq linked to terrorism when no such link existed in reality, war in Iraq linked to WMD when no such link existed in reality, general fear and hysteria around terrorism as excuse for draconian laws and measures -- when terrorism only caused a fraction of the number of deaths caused by say, traffic, or domestic violence, or obesity, or illness, or even caused by the hysteria itself, in t
US *does* have legislation/rulemaking like this (Score:2)
"Data Retention" rules requiring ISPs to keep user accounting information, credit card numbers, dialup numbers, and dynamic IP address assignments get proposed, either as laws or as regulat
First Bag is Free (Score:2)
Like a drug pusher who tells you "the first bag is free".
Or an ISP, telco or bank which unilaterally changes Terms of Service or privacy "agreements".
What about proxying outside the country? (Score:2)
sometimes i wish (Score:2)
You could have a background music with your post... Brazil, Brazil....
How is this enforceable? Any site that is access over a secure connection cannot be monitored. Unless they have guilty-until-proven innocent system of justice, of course.
Fine some one they can not find? (Score:2)
With Onion Routing Networks [eff.org], Mixmaster Type II Anonymous Email [sourceforge.net], GPG/PGP Type I Anonymous remailers [feraga.com], and bidirectional encrypted anonymous e-mail addresses [iusmentis.com] that can deliver to a news group [google.com]
Add to this the use of unsecured 802.11 networks and there is just no way to stop a person that truly wants to be anonymous on the internet.
Unfortunately most do not know how to use them, so most of the internet is only sudo-anonymous.
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Unless you mean that most people use linux and use a local "anonymous" account to access the Internet, I think the word you're looking for is pseudo. Besides, if you make it a crime per se to use these anonymous networks, they're pretty much all toast. It's another one of those laws that basicly say "it's illegal to do something we can't track/trace/access". If you have nothing to hide, why are you hiding from ze
How can this be effective? (Score:2)
Legal in Brazil Howto (Score:2)
Options
Privacy
Please fill out the following fields. If you are in brazil, this is mandatory. If you are not, just
Name :
Email :
Social :
DOB :
DL:
Mother's Maiden Name:
Email:
Address :
Your password:
write to your senator! (Score:2)
You can find your senator's email address in this page: http://www.senado.gov.br/sf/senadores [senado.gov.br]
Hopefully more brazilians will do the same.
Eu já enviei um email ao senador que eu votei na última eleição, pedindo a ele para não apoiar este projeto de lei estúpido.
Você pode encontrar o endereço de email do seu senador nesta página: http://www.senado.gov.b [senado.gov.br]
I wish I were in China instead! (Score:3, Informative)
The worst part is what I saw on the local news: they want us not only to provide our ID data, but also PROVIDE A XEROX COPY OF OUR ID CARDS to the sites we wish to have access to! After they approve our data, we will be able to access them.
Politicians don't have the slighest idea of how technology works...
Useless (Score:2)
As a legislator... (Score:2)
If they were carpenters, they'd hit people with hammers or nail them to the floor. (A much preferred approach in my opinion.) If they were "computer people" they'd create better means by which to stop the mayhem of cyber crime from continuing.
Since the mayhem shows no signs of slowing, let alone stopping, legislating is the only tool they have at their disposal. Is it bad legislation? YUP! Let's all try recommending something better. I think they should get "internet lice
Incongruous (Score:2)
Even worse, what if you sign up for the ID and you get a worm that disseminates a virus? 4 years in jail for something you didn't even know what happening.
This mustn't stand (Score:2)
Seriously - scoff at this law at your own peril. A world where 'net anonymity is unlawful is probably also a world where Tor and TrueCrypt are unlawful... where by law, your communications, writings and journals must be open to whatever official set of prying eyes feels the need to review them.
In spite of how ridiculous or unenforceable the law might seem, if Brazil gets away with this in principle, other governments 'round the world will be salivating at the prospect of doing the same. I
Am I the only one... (Score:2)
ACs (Score:2)
Much as I dislike ACs making crappy comments on my posts I seriously do not want them criminalised for it.
Sounds sort of like Taiwan (Score:2)
IIRC South Korea has a similar deal, but it's lame if you want to join a web fourm ( like this one ) in Taiwan and you don't have an SSN.
Like South Korea? (Score:2, Insightful)
Like this article [slashdot.org] talked about?
The article doesn't mention any specific penalties for posting anonymously. 4 years of prison time is an absurd penalty for a (usually) harmless offense. It does mention other, more serious offenses than insulting someone and "up to 4 years ..." so I'd guess that if you say "that guy's an idiot" without revealing your identity and you
A feel good law (Score:2)
The first obvious issue is enforcement. Is the Brazillan "SS" going to start tracking everyone on the Internet who posts under a pseudonym? Are they going to troll the net for all anonymous content, and play "guess-the-Brazillian"? Were they planning on asking virus writer
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For as many problems as we have in the states (yes, we have a lot), I sure as hell don't want anyone else dictating the rules of the net. If you live outside of the U.S., and feel the same way, create your own "master" DNS and make your own rules. Nothing is stopping you.
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Oh, I thought they said turn the Internet over to the The Onion [theonion.com]. Never mind, then. If hilarity is not going to ensue, then take my name off the petition.
Anonymity is illusion (Score:2)
You have an IP address that response packets are routed to. The server knows that IP address. So does every node routing the traffic on the internet -- every "hop" can see both sender and receiver IP addresses.
A DNS lookup identifies the service provider.
An authorized data access maps the IP address to a service address and possible customer identification. Hopefully this is a rigorously documented and monitored process in your nation.
Anonymizer routing can still be tracked, it just takes more wor
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You make it sound a relatively simple affair, when in reality it's anything but. In order to track down a request passed through a standard onion-routed network, you really need to have have access to both ends of the data stream. If a government wished to reliably tr
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1. Pointing out alleged hypocrisy, does not a rebuttal make.
2. Just because it is already possible to obtain that information about the poster, does not mean the poster wishes to make it easy. The present hurdle is adequate to deter 99% of people who might wish to annoy or harm the poster.
3. Indeed, the government is also subject to said hurdle. And so the present hurd
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Good thing I use a PC! Mwuahahah
(it's just a joke)
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What is the MAC adddress of my analog modem?
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Yeah, it would totally suck if a decision like this got stuck in committee for 20 years while 50 different countries' representatives argued over it before it finally got permanently vetoed by China for the express purpose of pissing another country off.
More like it gets approved for the express purpose of pissing the US off, and after the US vetoes it, the rest of the world whines that the US is "forcing their values on the rest of the world."
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Funny, I was under the impression that the US was strong-arming ther rest of the world to give up their privacy, because otherwise THE TERRORISTS WIN. Just look at information airlines and banks have been demanded to hand over to the US govt. Look at the secret, illegal wiretaps Bush has authorised. And you want me to believe the US would block this? The current administration is leading the charge to wip
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Just look at information airlines and banks have been demanded to hand over to the US govt. Look at the secret, illegal wiretaps Bush has authorised. And you want me to believe the US would block this? The current administration is leading the charge to wipe out privacy.
Yeah, because someone being in favor of better identification of easy terror targets like airlines, and being in favor of better money tracing, automatically means they are in favor of no privacy in society at all.
I hate the "slippery
Re:As always... (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, right, despite thinking you're being sarcastic. Because collecting huge amounts of information about legitimate travellers does nothing to stop terrorists. Just look at the No Fly List, that catches every terrorist who books a ticket under his own name (i.e., none) while inconveniencing thousands with similar names. Idiotic security theatre. And how many times must it be pointed out that the 9/11 terrorists mostly had legit IDs and clean records; they would have walked though today's security just as easily, after surrendering their shampoo bottles. Money tracing? Similar profiling goes on here, inconveniencing every poor schmuck trying to send money home to his family, if his name happens to be Mohammed, while the actual terrorists duck the whole system.
All the information needed to predict, and prevent, 911, was already in the US government's hands before the event. They need better, smarter analysis, more people on the ground, not more noise. But that's what bureaucrats know how to do, and that's their solution to every problem.
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That is actually true for many of them. They usually use the "if you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to hide" argument to say that only criminals are in favor of privacy.
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And we all know that Brazil is a breeding ground for terrorists, I mean, why else would they kill that Brazilian in London a year or so ago. So this must be a "Good Thing" (TM).
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That is the most disgustingly American (read "Republican") view on privacy and legislation that I have ever heard. Why should everyone have to give up their right to privacy? Just becaus
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Re:I am very serious (Score:4, Informative)
If you mean "assuming the requirement is not abused", that would not be a serious question. Every coercive power over others is always abused, to the greatest degree that interested parties can get away with. The whole problem of freedom is minimizing the opportunities for such abuse.
Of course no one objects to a prohibition of spreading malware. Here are a few of the more obvious problems with the removal-of-anonymity part.
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During the American Revolutionary War, most of the founding fathers published works with pseudo names. Had they published under their own name and the red coats picked them at their homes and whisked them away to some prison... Perhaps we wouldn't be having this conversation.
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Sounds to me like it is something that the people in Brazil need to work out for themselves. They can vote and debate it in their public forums and press.
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Face it, our beloved language encourages neologisms.
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Because of course all the hardworking citizens will now comply with the law and identify themselves. Sheesh I am shocked by your failing to understand how laws can change human behavior overnight, and magically make everything better. END SARCASM
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You're assuming that many of the people doing that are smart enough to get away with it. Many will give themselves away at some point. Also, they could require that ISPs monitor and log all traffic coming from their users. If it's detected they're using things like Tor, I2P, JAP or other anonymizers they could be reported.
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It is meant as one of those "we can't get you on anything else, so we will throw you in jail for this" crimes
no differnet from the states, if they look hard enough they can find a law you have broken.
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The bill states that every user must fully identify herself before using the Net, with full name, current address, phone number and the equivalent of the Social Security Number. To access the Net without providing this information, or to give false information, will also be a crime.
Senator Eduardo Azeredo wants to legally recommend every Internet user to buy the government approved certificate, and use it on every connection to the Net.
Ironic - politicians make it an issue
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Not if you work for the government. Look at wardriving and using unsecure IP's in the US, for example. Because you're doing it, you MUST be doing something illegal. If you post anonymously in Brazil, you MUST be a criminal. I mean, you've already broken one law, I wonder how many else you are breaking - come along son, hands behind your back...
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I guess all cell walls soon will contain the words "First Post".
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Do you have any idea about how internet routing works? Unless NIC's are going to be handed out by the ISP, this scheme will fail to work. IP addresses are supposed to be hierarchical to minimize routing table size. If any address could be used anywhere on earth, the routing tables would become extremely large, since there is no pattern in what netwo
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I'll forgive Brazilians for bad English, since my Portuguese is non-existent.
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