Unpleasant Surprises for Online Real Estate Buyers 240
prostoalex writes "Buying expensive items online from the people you've never met without any guarantees on the seller's part might seem a bit risky even for an experienced Internet shopper. The 'hotness' of the real estate investment market apparently influences some cash-heavy investors to look for opportunities online. When the entire transaction is done via a click of the mouse, and the deed for newly bought real estate arrives in the mail, some unsuspecting buyers might discover that a cozy house near the bus line in the middle of a busy street might imply a criminalized neighborhood and proximity to crack house. The New York Times investigates negative experiences of people buying investment real estate online."
Buffalo, NY (Score:2, Insightful)
Lots of fresh water, summer temps don't go above 90, winter temps above 0, sports teams, cheap housing...
I never could understand why Phoenix is gaining population and Buffalo is losing population.
Re:Buffalo, NY (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Buffalo, NY (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Buffalo, NY (Score:2)
Easy change that to winter temps above 40 and you have a winner.
Cold is one of the reasons. The other is that the north east outside of Boston and New York City have a bad reputation. There are lots of areas with low cost housing and a good quality of life that are having the same type of problems as Buffalo.
Check it out first, dammit (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Check it out first, dammit (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course, some people deserve to lose their money more than others. I have far more sympathy for the bloke that lost $50 in a dodgy ebay auction than I do f
Re:Check it out first, dammit (Score:5, Insightful)
Great point, I think I would take it even farther, when dealing with anybody less than a well-established company on the net, you should EXPECT to get ripped-off and take appropriate measures to protect yourself BEFORE you buy. Way too many people just assume that the government (or some other 3rd party) will protect them from fraud on the net, which IMHO is just plain foolish.
Re:Check it out first, dammit (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Check it out first, dammit (Score:3, Insightful)
On smaller purchases (not houses, unless you're a multi-millionaire) you can afford to lose a few, aslong as the expected gain is still positive.
I buy used ps2-games online. I *expect* to be ripped off once in a while. That's ok -- compared to the alternative for me, buying new in the shop, I typically save 20->70%, so even if I'm ripped off 1/10th of the time, it's still a huge win.
But like always: don't gamble what you cannot afford to lose. I *can* afford to lose the cost of a
Re:Check it out first, dammit (Score:5, Insightful)
This is an idiotic statement. There are plenty of good companies and individuals which are 'less well known'. Your ultra-conservative sentiment means you'll often end up paying more, getting less, and wondering why there's practical monopolies in the economy. Beyond this, even well known brands can be rip-offs - Radio Shack for instance, has knowningly sold completely defective products and left the consumer in the lurch. Enron and Parmalat were household names. Your statment is similar to the one "You get what you pay for" - which is also untrue and even dangerous. You pay what you negotiate, through some method or another.
This isn't to say that your sentiments aren't useful. If you and others spread the FUD about small companies, there will be less competition on ebay for the really good deals.
Re:Check it out first, dammit (Score:3, Insightful)
This current RE bubble is going to end in such a disaster I can't even contemplate how the US will ever work its way out recession that follows. The whole dam
Re:Check it out first, dammit (Score:2, Interesting)
> follows
Stop buying expensive crap and learn to live happily and simply? I'm just guessing, but I doubt people from rich countries are any happier than people from poor countries. It doesn't cost much to survive in beautiful places like South Thailand, and it costs a fortune to live in stinky, dirty, crime-ridden London or New York. When did you ever go somewhere beautiful and see photos of cities with the slogan "get
Re:Check it out first, dammit (Score:2)
Re:Check it out first, dammit (Score:2)
The other thing that's interesting is that the economy is moving from one based upon capital to one based upon debt. Americans, supposedly, owe more on credit cards than their net worth - as a whole (not the average!)
Re:Check it out first, dammit (Score:3, Insightful)
The weather is better too: not so hot.
Look again (Score:2)
I don't know about London, but New York city is marketed very effectively as a place to go to have fun. And, while I have no desire to live in Manhattan, the property values demonstrate that plenty of people like it permanently.
Also, Las Vegas makes losts money telling people to go there to "get away."
Re:Look again (Score:2)
Even though true for Vegas, and not for NYC, it doesn't change the fact that people DO see those places as ways to go on vacation.
Re:Check it out first, dammit (Score:2)
> ever work its way out recession that follows...Anyone have a financial bomb shelter??
Depressingly enough, probably the only "financial bomb shelter" is to invest your money in areas that will benefit from a real estate bust.
The problem is that too many people today believe that "flipping houses" is an easy way to get rich, just like the way people talked about day trading back in the late 1990s.
Too ma
Re:Check it out first, dammit (Score:2, Informative)
Historic Renovation is something that I did once ( I like to restore Victorians ). I will NEVER do a historic home again.
I could take a Victorian, restore it fully without using anything new ( maybe slight plumbing issues, but everything original and old ) and finish without a problem within 48 days. ( I had the best crew and we always worked 6 days a week ).
the o
Re:Check it out first, dammit (Score:3, Funny)
Agreed. One shoud also bear in mind that:
Re:Check it out first, dammit (Score:2)
You can dismiss some people as fools, but bear in mind that even we who usurp a mental superiority behave like idiots most of the time as well. Even me and you.
Re: Check it out first, dammit (Score:2)
Re:Check it out first, dammit (Score:2)
During investment manias, people get caught up in the "urgency" to buy something (like tech stocks) and don't do the appropriate research. Real estate has been on a hot streak due to easy credit, and many of these investors a
Re:Check it out first, dammit (Score:2)
If you are going to spend over 5 figures on ANYTHING you had better get it appraised, inspected by a professional and completely checked out.
Fools buy things by looking at it themselves. Hell I can show you a house that looks like it is brand new but is a giant POS that only a moron would buy. Do you have the tools to look in the walls and see the massive termite damage? the dry rot on the foundation that is hidden by a beautiful remodel? or the fact that coming up here in the rai
News Flash! (Score:2)
Film at 11.
If this were fark.com, I'd be adding a pic of a certain reporter with bad hair.
Re:Check it out first, dammit (Score:2)
Can anyone name a dumber thing to buy online? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Can anyone name a dumber thing to buy online? (Score:2)
That said, you better know the area well if you're going to do this.
PLEASE BE HELPING ME (Score:5, Funny)
my bank manager (mr arran) tells me i need an american to sign them over.
if you can help me to withdraw it from bank i will give you 40 percant.
yes, thats right i said 40 percant. you will get a whole 15million american dollers for helping me.
sinerity yours
mr wamo
re: paypal activity (Score:2)
Your Payp01 account has been hadding suspcicious "stuff" go on, please to make your correction!
Update your info [myfirst.ca...em.account]
---------------- skip ahead to site
Please enter your credit card number, security number, expiry, date of birth, mothers maiden name, social security, ATM pin and your home address for our databases!
Suprisingly those still catch people.
Tom
Information Traps (Score:2)
Suprisingly those still catch people.
Personally, I've always thought that what has the greatest potential would be to operate an entirely legitimate site that offers a genuine service which requires a user name and password, and then go out and hit the major sites (banking, eBay, stock, etc) and see how many people registered with the s
Re:PLEASE BE HELPING ME (Score:2)
Oh, wait...
Darwin in action (Score:5, Interesting)
Even a picture isnt enough-- there was a house in our neighborhood where the owner kept over 100 rabbits. With free run of the place. The house looked okay from the outside, maybe worth $260,000. But my friend the real-estate appraiser valued it at -$22000. That's how much it would cost to tear down the house, minus the value of the land.
Re:Darwin in action (Score:2)
The land was actually worth $238,000, that is, the value of the land minus what it would cost to tear the house down.
Re:Darwin in action (Score:2)
010,000 USD - value of the land
260,000 USD - sum, total value
000,000 USD - value of a house ruined by rabbits (how? I don't know)
010,000 USD - value of the land, same as before
-32,000 USD - cost to demolish house ruined by rabbits
-22,000 USD - new sum, total value
Re:Darwin in action (Score:2)
-75,000 (cost of building new, $250,000 home)
+250,000 (value of new 250,000 home)
he should have properly assessed the value at
$142,000 (he could have halved that, because not everyone has a fleet of low price contrectors ready to put in a $300,000 home for the lowest possible cost in materials and labor)
Because after cost of demolition and rebuilding the home, that's what it was worth to pay for the thing.
Remember a $300 home costs a lot less to build, most of the
Re:Darwin in action (Score:2)
Re:Darwin in action (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Darwin in action (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Darwin in action (Score:4, Insightful)
It's not being a leech to buy something that you think is undervalued by the seller. Quite the opposite. It has the effect of smoothing out pricing in a market and making it more liquid.
No need to be jealous of those who find good deals before you do.
Re:Darwin in action (Score:2, Informative)
Whatever you need to tell yourself to make it easier to sleep at night... I'm about to move and was considering moving to a nearby larger city (where a lot of my friends moved a few years ago), until I saw the housing prices. The prices have doubled in the past three years. I know that housing prices go up in fits and spur
Re:Darwin in action (Score:2)
that's not what goes on here. this is one more chump taken in by the "make your fortune in real estate" infomercials. his only problem was he bought TOO cheap, and couldn't get the appraisal he needed to mortgage the property, take out a bunch of cash, and resell it to the next chump.
Re:Darwin in action (Score:3, Interesting)
even when you buy a used car, you want to take it for a drive first.
Do your DD (Score:2, Insightful)
First... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:First... (Score:2)
their are alott of people who wouldn't mind being walking distance to any of these.
personally I would get much more enjoyment being a block from a bar/strip joint than a church, boutique, etc (oh wait, with the exception of my current house I have never lived more than 3 blocks from a bar.)
Sight unseen (Score:5, Insightful)
Buying collectibles off eBay is one thing.
Buying a big ticket luxury item - ANY such item - cars, real estate, houses, deeds...that's misguided at best unless you live in proximity to the seller and can see it (inspect it) yourself presale. We have a term for people who will buy things like this with full and total trust in the seller. It's called "sucker."
Or, if you're a proponent of our legal system, "plaintiff."
Re:Sight unseen (Score:3, Insightful)
"Hi there, Bob. Can I call you "Bob"? I know we've agreed on $15,000 for the boat, but all of a sudden I've
"We'll just tell 'em we cancelled the deal
You and your $12,000 will be soon par
Too good to be true (Score:5, Insightful)
Someone sells you something for FAR less than what it should be worth, provided they're not lying. Bonus question for $1000: Why should they? Would you sell your house without at least getting a rough quote from some online service how much your hut is worth? Hey, we're talking a few 1000 bucks at the very least here, it's not like I'm selling some old junk that might be someone's treasure, a house is a house, and by its very nature, it has value! And everyone, literally everyone, knows that.
So why should you think someone does NOT know that a house is worth more than a few 1000 bucks, especially when it's somewhere in downtown?
Just like with used cars. When the year old car that's been driven only by a cute old granny, always just to church and back goes for less than 1000 bucks, would you buy it?
I wouldn't even buy the story, and certainly not the car!
Barnum was right (Score:5, Insightful)
"Mr. Hoyt said he had repeatedly appealed to eBay officials, asking the company to make specific changes, like informing sellers that they must comply with New York State disclosure laws and requiring a copy of written sales contracts. But Mr. Hoyt said he had received little cooperation from the company.
"What eBay is doing, in my opinion, is immoral," he said. "They have a responsibility to not facilitate activity like this."
Wait a minute, eBay has a seller rating system, eBay has an escrow service, so who in there right mind buys a HOUSE sight unseen, from an unrated or negatively rated seller, without using escrow? I think this is a problem with some people, they make stupid buying decisions and then turn around and want the listing agent (or the government) to take some sort of responsibility for it.
I'm not trying to relieve any of the responsibility for this off unscrupulous sellers (it is in fact immoral to intentionally rip off buyers), however at some point buyers need to have enough common sense to do at least a modicum of due diligence don't you think? Apparently people think that caveat emptor doesn't apply on the Internet, when in fact it's probably the most important consumer protection mechanism, especially when most of the tools you need to do your due diligence are at your fingertips (MLS services, city records, etc..,)
Also from the article, this one IMO is a true "gem"
"Mr. Krug said Mr. Tanner had asked him the same question. "I told him the first thing he did wrong was buy a computer," Mr. Krug said."
Amen Mr. Krug, Amen.
Re:Barnum was right (Score:2)
Morality is subjective; the morality of an action cannot be immoral in fact, but only in someone's opinion.
It may be a fact that you think it is immoral -- but plenty of people have no moral qualms about getting the best price possible. People always try to show properties in the best light when they are selling; is that immoral?
That said, I agree with you in general -- caveat emptor still applies, and unless the seller made false claims about
Re:Barnum was right (Score:2)
Re:Barnum would like you (Score:3, Insightful)
Well I haven't (ever been scammed on eBay) and I've bought literally thousands of items so I'm not "one of those suckers" but apparently everybody you know IS to some degree. My comment regarding escrow and seller ratings were not intended to be all inclusive, in other words based on the article it does not appear that these buyers even went that far. eBay attempts to provide the minimal protections that can be implemented withou
Re:Barnum was right (Score:2)
Which I think is one reason why eBay puts a link to the item sold for each buyer comment (as well as the rating of the commentor), if you don't look at the details of the seller ratings they really don't do you much good. However you're right, they could also be using a hiijacked accounts. The seller rating system on eBay isn't of course foolproof, but I have found it's usually a goo
JRGhaddar (Score:5, Funny)
Reasearch! (Score:2)
No matter how you're buying something, you need to do some research into what exaclly you're buying.
Re:Reasearch! (Score:2)
Russian Roulette is easier than Bingo too.
Sight unseen? (Score:2, Funny)
Hmm (Score:2)
Hell these guys got a house, they could of just got a garden shed put on illegal land or fake deeds. May not be the super nice advertised place hey said, but they could at least give it to a charity working with these type of people (read : homeless, prostitutes, etc.) and let them turn it into a safe house of sorts to supply food to people if nothing else.
Re:Hmm (Score:3, Insightful)
Unless of course the cost of getting the building up to code or tearing it down is greater than the value of the place, in which case a charity isn't going to take it, since they would in effect be paying you to take the property off your hands. I'd
Some obvious solutions (Score:2)
Well, the buyer can just turn around and resell it on eBay -- hopefully recouping their loss. One idiot can sell to another, right?
But I'm concerned by this sentence: "The practice, local government leaders say, is destabilizing already weakened urban neighborhoods by displacing legitimate investment." That is a real problem. Perhaps it should be illegal to purchase a house unless you sign something stating that you (or your legal representative) has seen the place in person. I mean, you cannot legisl
Re:Some obvious solutions (Score:2)
Sure, if the idiot doing the selling is an idiot with no integrity.
But I'm concerned by this sentence: "The practice, local government leaders say, is destabilizing already weakened urban neighborhoods by displacing legitimate investment." That is a real problem. Perhaps it should be illegal to purchase a house unless you sign something stating that you (or your legal rep
Re:Some obvious solutions (Score:2)
I'm not sure about the origins of the following quote, but I certainly love it:
"I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why won't we remove all the warning labels and let the problem solve itself?"
Re:Some obvious solutions (Score:2)
I don't have much sympathy for the people who bought these slums sight-unseen, but like drunk drivers, their stupidity harms people
Dear Slashdotter, (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Dear Slashdotter, (Score:2)
.. I got scammed like this (Score:3, Funny)
But the price was _so_ good (Score:2)
Well, let us count the ways, right?
Google Earth might help (Score:3, Interesting)
Google Maps and Earth (Score:2, Interesting)
But, no one has suggested using Google maps/earth. That's what I would do even if I were buying locally.
I was once on a trainging flight and as I passed over this really expensive neighborhood, I saw a quarry not more than a few hundred yards away, tucked in a very heavily forested area. I'm sure after they spent mega$$ on their McMansions, they were probably surprised by the blasting and all of the trucks going by.
Now, I'd make sure there wasn't any sur
Re:Google Maps and Earth (Score:2)
Re:Google Maps and Earth (Score:2)
Could have been worse... (Score:3, Interesting)
Not all online real estate deals are dangerous (Score:3, Interesting)
For example, wilderness purchases if you should have the inclination to build a getaway cabin. Granted, there are no structures most of the time, it's just the land.
Another example would be buying fringe properties. If you believe that a company or a city will eventually want to expand into a particular area, you might want to buy the land if you have the chance to get in early enough. You would have to look out for potential immenent domain problems though. A friend of mine inherited basically a huge field when his parents died in a small town in central Arizona. About 3 years ago, some company wanted to build a retirement village with a golf course. They paid him 7 Million for a stupid field. Sweet!
Other potential online purchases would be castles. Yes, that's right, castles. There are dozens and dozens of mansions and castles that sit in what was formerly East Germany. The original owners have simply abandoned them and the local authorities auction off the properties. Many times they go relatively cheap, like a couple thousand dollars cheap, if you don't mind the renovation costs. They can make great vacation spots or quiet retirement villas.
And still going.... (Score:2, Interesting)
Loads freaky ebay stuff that's too good to be true (Score:2, Interesting)
Greed overcomes Reason (Score:2)
I don't feel very sorry for these people. They should have known better.
OTOH the people 'flipping' these houses aren't exactly nice people either, and seem little better than scammers. Clearly sales of houses online should be subject to the same laws as selling them elsewhere - i.e,. the description has to be accurate, as the article says.
He should be thankful he is only $30,000 down on the situation. A lot, but not life-changing. If you can't aff
Would they write a story about positive experience (Score:2)
So people bought real estate without ever seeing it and some of them did not get what they thought they were buying? Gee, who would have thought that would happen? Probably the same people that are working with a Nigerian representative to get money out of that country. What better place to park a lot of money they will be getting soon, property purchased via the Internet.
Such people should have the
Various Aphorisms Apply (Score:2)
A Fool and His Money are Soon Parted
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public
SEC v. Zandford (01-147)
Eh? (Score:5, Insightful)
A deal like that, one would expect them to be on the edge of an active volcano.
At this point, you level those houses and rebuild on the property. 3k doesn't get you a house, it gets you land with house shaped debris on it.
Use that web thingy. (Score:4, Insightful)
look at it in Google Maps?
search the local papers for stories mentioning the street, streets nearby, the neighborhood?
call someone who lived near to it - maybe a business - and ask what they thought of the place?
check any online information from the city/county/state - assessed values, etc?
I know jack about real estate, and I would be doing those in the first ten minutes after the thought to invest came to me.
People do this? (Score:2)
I found a pleasant surprise.... (Score:2, Funny)
go to www.funda.nl (the country's biggest real estate website) and search for 'konijn' (Dutch for 'rabbit')
Get a buyer's agent (Score:5, Informative)
But at least working with an agent in most states you have specific legal protections that are lacking in online transactions. It's a lot easier to take action in most states against a crooked agent than a crooked seller. Most times they're mandated to have E&O, the real estate agent's professional liability insurance. State oversight boards are notoriously brutal and inflexible. Real estate agents had such a bad reputation that many states laid the hammer down. As a spurned buyer your chances of getting justice from the state real estate commission or the courts are extremely high if your agent might reasonably have known about a potential problem.
The buyer's agent normally gets their cut from the seller. 90% of the time it doesn't cost you anything to have an agent if you're a buyer. In some areas buyer's agents charge up front fees, so ask first.
Truthfully, even if I had to pay them out of my pocket I'd still use a real estate agent for buying property, especially if it's out of town. If something is really wrong they've got a fiduciary duty to inform you about anything material to the value of the property. If they don't they're risking their license and an E&O claim against their broker. I've found the combination of internet research and a good local agent to be the best combination for my property purchases. Trust but verify what they're telling me.
Re:Get a buyer's agent (Score:3, Insightful)
The buyer's agent normally gets their cut from the seller.
Run, do not walk, from anyone presenting him/herself as a buyer's agent, but being paid by the seller. By definition, the agent's interests then align with the property seller, not yours.
The check needs to come from you, preferably as a retainer + post-close commission, rather than set-fee up front.
What knack? (Score:3, Funny)
Sounds like it should be the other way around. He's doing great turning two dollars into one.
Dumbasses (Score:2)
Island (Score:3, Insightful)
Result? In my case I couldn't be happier. It is exactly what I was hoping for (well, except for the really bad case of poison ivy I got there last summer...) Bottom line: Use *all* of the technology you have access to if you have to make a decision like that. Even antiquated ones like the telephone.
My Family Sold a House Online (Score:4, Interesting)
However my aunt is a real estate agent and after a few years of flying cross-country for vacations wondered if her investment money wouldn't be more productive elsewhere. So almost on a lark she listed on an online auction site, no commitment to sell. And the bidding went insane!
So she called up Mom, confessed what she had done, then agreed that if the silly numbers were true they'd sell. They ended up having a prospective buyer fly up from Texas and stay in the house for a few days. The buyer loved the place, made an offer that was jaw-dropping by local real estate values, and the place was sold.
However, the buyer was from Texas, i.e. a US citizen. This hadn't been an issue for my mother, after 40-some years in the US she has always remained Canadian, but they did warn the buyer they'd have to look into local laws, particularly as they were dog-breeders and planning to use the barns for kennels, etc.
(By the way, Nova Scotia is cheap and trying hard to make itself attractive to retirees; if you're looking for a vacation place or to retire it's a great place to consider!)
Anyway, within a few years the new buyer had to sell. They'd not done their homework and had instead simply moved and started selling dogs. Apparently when informed they'd have to leave the country and immigrate the legal way they didn't find a peer online to sell the house to and instead sold at a rate far more in keeping with the local norms, and thus took a complete bath on the whole process.
So my family had a GREAT experience, others might not do so well...
Oh, and there's my buddy Richard, who buys a new eMachine PC on sale every year, images it's drive, pulls out and replaces the parts he doesn't care for, then a year later sets it back up the way he got it and sells it online, every time for more then he'd bought it for a year earlier! There really is another sucker online every minute!
Re:If you do this, you're asking for trouble... (Score:2)
as well they should be, fools shouldn't be allowed to keep it.
Re:In other news: water is wet. (Score:5, Interesting)
It surprises many people. There are plenty of people who, when faced by something that looks like a bargain, or looks like they're getting a good deal & ripping off the buyer will jump at a business chance without thinking things through, because the scammer has successfully planted an image in the buyer/victim's own mind. Imaginations are a powerful thing, and work against the victim.
A relative of mine (no relation apart from by marriage) came across his first nigerian scammer email a couple of years ago. He spent days thinking over the options and planning how to rip nigerianscammerguy off of all his money, instead of just getting 10% of the $50million promised.
I gave the guy a handy hint, advised him it's a scam and these guys will just try to take money from him and keep promising but never delivering. That's when he said he knew it must be a scam, and unveiled some 'foolproof' plan to get the money from the nigerianscammerguy but not reveal who he was or send them much money at all.
Eventually, he ended up losing about $2500 to the scammers getting played right into their game. Why? While he knew it was a scam, he made the stupid mistake of believing the $50 million actually existed. It clouded his vision, and all he could see was a mental image of his bank statement with 7 digits in the black. Same with real estate, the buyers make an image in their mind of what they're buying, and don't lose it - even buyers of property who get to inspect it will see what they want to, unless there are major differences between description and reality.
Dummy Mode trigger (Score:2)
How many people have lost more than $2500 (net) in, say, two years of gambling?
Re:Dummy Mode trigger (Score:2)
Re:In other news: water is wet. (Score:5, Informative)
Use the online yellow pages and find a home inspector. They will provide photos of everyting from the condition of the gutters to the torn screen window, to the rotting bottem panel on the garage door. It was worth every cent of the $750 I paid for the inspection.
Get a licensed home inspector.
I don't want to feed the trolls but (Score:2)
Re:I don't want to feed the trolls but (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I don't want to feed the trolls but (Score:2)
Of course not. They're afraid of the majority.
Now, that's irony for you.
Diversity? (Score:5, Interesting)
Interesting that you put "diversity" in quotes.
When we moved to our current apartment my wife looked up some crime stats for various neighborhoods.
With 100 as the national average:
Some areas of Newark, NJ were 400 or more.
The small town where I went to high school (about 2000 pop, 50 miles from nearest Mc Donald's) was about 25 or so, IIRC. The town has significant Mexican (ex-pat) and Navajo populations.
The town where our apartment is, rated 4. That's right, single digit, 4.
This is the most diverse place I've ever lived, or visited. On my short block (duplexes and single-family homes) there are at least 6 native languages.
My daughter's first grade class had a variety of Christians along with Jews, Muslims, Buddists, and I don't know what religion the kid from Mongolia follows. The school has maybe 20 students that would qualify for free or reduced school lunch.
When I'm in church on Sunday I talk to people from Nigeria, Jamaica, Haiti, Mexico, Chile, Peru, Germany, Philipines, Eastern Europe, etc.
We happened to drive through one of those very high crime areas of Newark and my daughter had a question. "Why is everyone the same color?"
Result: In my (perhaps not statistically significant experience) it is the lack of diversity that has a positive correlation with crime and welfare. So, I think it's interesting that you put "diversity" in quotes.
The trouble is that I doubt that I'll ever be able to afford to buy a home in the town where I live.
Re:Diversity? (Score:2)
Re:well thats just stupid (Score:2)
Accidentally perfect statement.