Cameras Online? How The Shysters Work 429
earlylate writes "How do certain photo and electronics dealers thrive despite widely-circulated warnings by unhappy customers? According to a new investigative website "many apparently separate and competing dealers are actually jointly owned and run" and "go to great lengths to conceal their locations and management." Further, some comparison-shopping sites "are in effect marketing partners with their affiliates," the very dealers they rate. There's a contest based on the suspicious "flood of similar, glowing reviews some dealers receive," as well as links to several sources of information and advice for the careful online shopper."
Lots of scams out there... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Lots of scams out there...yes but... (Score:5, Insightful)
1) only buy from reputable sites. this has been going on since computer shopper days. its even more true today.
2) I only use my American Express (AMEX). I can't tell you how many times AMEX has helped with fraudulent charges, merchants that don't deliver etc. AMEX is expensive and a pain in the ass for mechants to sign up. If they are not willing to do that, than I won't buy. I will pay a slight premium for sights that take AMEX. It's worth it.
If I'd done both these when I first got online in the 90s I would have saved myself a lot of grief.
Finding good reviews (Score:3, Insightful)
"review " comes up with hundreds of bogus google bombs that have no valuable information in them. If you go to epinions.com, etc, unless an item has a fair number of reviews you can't trust that the reviewer isn't just astroturfing for the company's product.
For the areas I have some expertise like computer h
Re:Finding good reviews (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Finding good reviews (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Finding good reviews (Score:3, Insightful)
Consumer Reports "best buy" computer every year ends up being a Compaq or a Dell or an HP machine. Anyone who knows anything about computers will get a good chuckle out of their rationale for that rating.
I know a guy who has said much the same thing about their ratings of HVAC equipment.
I'd rather have the opinion of an expert than a
Re:Finding good reviews (Score:5, Insightful)
You have a beef with CR, fine. That's no reason to go making shit up.
CR has experts do the testing, which is plainly and comprehensively explained along with their testing methodology.
Re:Finding good reviews (Score:4, Insightful)
Also, reliability reports in CR are and always have been based on quality surveys sent out to (all) subscribers of the magazine.
I think CR gets a bad rap just because they're relatively incompetent at rating computers and electronics.Their automotive coverage has vastly improved in recent years, and they nail the reliability of cars and trucks. And they are the standard benchmark for home appliance reviews. Ultimately, though, CR is just one tool, and can cover only so many products even within one class of appliances. If you're making a major purchase, you should use many tools to find information about it. And you definitely shouldn't discount CR as one of those tools (unless you're buying electronics...).
Re:Finding good reviews (Score:3, Informative)
If you can't lock up both wheels on dry pavement, your brakes are set up wrong. It's wise to not do that, but on a bicycle you are the ABS.
Re:Lots of scams out there...yes but... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Lots of scams out there... (Score:2)
Re:Lots of scams out there... (Score:2)
Re:Lots of scams out there... (Score:2, Insightful)
You could try to avoid that problem by putting investigative burden on the search engine's operator... which will drive small, legitimate search engine sites under (including, say, university research projects).
Alternatively, rather than trying to create a new law to quick-fix a problem, we could try intelligent enforcement of
Re:Lots of scams out there... (Score:2)
We should know IF a review website is giving a review based on compensation. Congress should pass a law requiring these websites to disclose how much they were paid for giving search results.
One website I use is Eopinions dot com. They are a place where anyone can write a review of a product. When I want advice on how good a product is, I don't want to hear from the manufacturer. I don't want to be lied to, I
Re:Lots of scams out there... (Score:2)
Re:Lots of scams out there... (Score:3, Funny)
Good luck with that.
Re:Lots of scams out there... (Score:2)
It's all the mob! (Score:5, Funny)
This post alone will give me away, I need to move again... but I needed to warn you all!
Re:It's all the mob! (Score:2, Funny)
*Hey Dom!! Grab the bat and some tie-wraps, we got that little rat-bastard now!*
Re:It's all the mob! (Score:3, Funny)
What are you, (Score:5, Funny)
Henchman, "I say, that scoundrel has surfaced in the United States. Shall we whack him?"
Don Worcestershire, "Quite."
You may want to rent this movie (Score:2)
great british gangster film. be sure to use the pikie subtitles.
In general, a movie by Guy RItchie is worth the watching.
Happens in real life, too. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Happens in real life, too. (Score:2)
Just a little bit racist, no? Just because someone speaks a foreign language, they're immeidately suspect? Isn't it possible that both dealers quoted you MSRP minux 10% or something to that effect? It's not extremely likely, but definitely not out of
Re:Happens in real life, too. (Score:4, Interesting)
No, really. South asian's got cheap electronics LOCKED DOWN in NY. Perhaps refurbs, perhaps liquidations, but still madd cheap.
Re:Happens in real life, too. (Score:4, Interesting)
Why don't you try to comprehend his point rather than knee-jerking off in a racist accusation? The action that is suspect is the fact that the staff, after being requested the price, first spoke on a walkie-talkie in an unintelligable language before delivering the price. This leads one to suspect that perhaps the unintelligable conversation was regarding the price. Even more so when you take into account that the staff members at both stores appeared to be of identical nationality which makes it likely that the unintelligable conversation was between them.
Re:Happens in real life, too. (Score:5, Insightful)
Paranoid, possibly, but not necessarily racist. The question is whether he would have jumped to the same conclusion that he was not dealing with two independent retailers if the clerk at the first store was the same race as himself, and the clerk at the second store was as well, but bore what might have been a family resemblance to the first clerk, and spoke quietly into the walkie-talkie so that he couldn't hear. I suspect that he would have reacted exactly the same way. Not everything has to be about race.
Crazy Eddies "language" (Score:3, Interesting)
The setup up paints it as racism, but its good ol' NY paranoia. Who do we trust? NOBODY.
/and for the record, his prices were insane
Who You Buy From (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Who You Buy From (Score:5, Funny)
That's why I only shop at Best Buy.
<trying hard not to burst out laughing>
Re:Who You Buy From (Score:2)
Agreed. If it isn't a reputable chain (Best Buy, Circuit City, etc.) or well-known online eTailer (Amazon, Overstock, etc.), why buy? I want somebody I can complain to if the thing is broken/wrong/not what I ordered, who isn't going to show up at my house and break my arms for complaining.
To save a few bucks you're willing to throw caution to the wind? Then buddy, I've got this bridge in New York, see... priced to move... [wi
Re:Who You Buy From (Score:2)
Re:Who You Buy From (Score:2)
(Like one time I bought a used equalizer for my car at a bazaar and installed it outside right away to find it didnt work and returned it and had to pitch a bitch to get my doe back)
I noticed years ago that many websites/stores were part of the same company. When building a computer you nee
Fear (Score:5, Funny)
Vigilante justice (Score:5, Funny)
If you'd like to volunteer, let me know, I have a great camera I can give you for a low-low price, that would be perfect for the job.
Re:Vigilante justice (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Vigilante justice (Score:3, Funny)
I believe they're talking about websites. Maybe people could take screenshots and post those, and we can be informed!
Seriously, though, there's a practical reason why vigilante justice is discouraged: Every a-hole who's mad that he couldn't get an otherwise reputable and service oriented business to cater to his every whi
Re:Vigilante justice (Score:3, Funny)
Nooooo, say it ain't so (Score:5, Insightful)
You mean to say that I shouldn't spend $100s based on the opinions of anonymous and untrusted (to me) sources.
I tell you, I'm shocked.
You'll be telling me next that the editorial in trade newspapers is somehow related to the advertising.
Re:Nooooo, say it ain't so (Score:3, Insightful)
Eric
(I wish my publisher would do that to my own book [amazon.com])
Re:Nooooo, say it ain't so (Score:2)
Imagine if the New York Times published classified ads for cocaine dealers - after collecting cash and an assurance that t
Such scams work... (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't think that the number of scams has really increased or anything...the information deluge from the internet makes it seem like there are more scammers now than before. The fact appears to be that in place of one sucker being swindled, now you have 10 suckers being swindled simultaneously.
A fool and his money...yada yada yada.
Some interesting pictures of the storefronts (Score:5, Informative)
Front doors [donwiss.com]
Re:Some interesting pictures of the storefronts (Score:5, Interesting)
I bought a tv from store 114 (DrPlasma, aka eStore of NY) They have multiple aliases. Biggest mistake of my life. They sent me a very expensive plasma tv by mistake and tried to strong arm me into paying for it. They also made an illegal charge to my credit card. Good thing my credit card was pretty full because it limited what they were able to steal when they maxed it out. I dealt with them for nearly 2 months until they finally gave up when they realized I wasn't going to just roll over on this one. Had I researched them out before I would never have bought anything from them. They have conflicting reviews though. Some say A++++++ some say scam artists. I wonder if they write their own reviews.
Re:Some interesting pictures of the storefronts (Score:2)
Always buy local (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Always buy local (Score:4, Interesting)
So I decided I was on a wild goose chase, ordered my camera and other gear from B&H and never looked back. I had about $3000 to spend on camera gear, and all I needed from the local store was basic respect. Anyway, B&H filled my order faster than either of the local stores would have done. And I'm quite happy with the camera, no regrets at all. And I haven't been to any locally owned camera stores since (!!)
The unfortunate side effect is (Score:5, Interesting)
http://stockmarketgarden.com/ [stockmarketgarden.com]
The lesson? Don't buy in New York City, period. (Score:3, Insightful)
I have heard nothing but bad news about these New York City stores using bait and switch tactics and selling refurbished goods as new. You are better off using Froogle.com or cnet.com and then doing a little reading of the reviews about the sites that came back with the least expensive results.
Re:The lesson? Don't buy in New York City, period. (Score:2, Informative)
Jonathan
Re:The lesson? Don't buy in New York City, period. (Score:2)
The folks there are absolutely fantastic. Very helpful, knowledgable, and offer a fair price. You can probably find stuff for a few dollars less elsewhere, but you don't know who you're dealing with.
Ask for Peter in the telescope department; he's sharp!
Re:The lesson? Don't buy in New York City, period. (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1914.html [resellerratings.com]
Re:The lesson? Don't buy in New York City, period. (Score:2)
Re:The lesson? Don't buy in New York City, period. (Score:5, Informative)
It's like any other major purchase... do your homework. Look for stores with established brick & mortar business and reputation. Don't be lured by too-good-to-be-true deals (they really are). Ask around with people who are in the know (there are plenty of photography enthusiast websites out there).
Yes, there are a lot of shady people running shady ops in shady neighborhoods in the NY area. But that doesn't mean there aren't reputable shops as well.
Caveat emptor.
Look for B&H, Adorama, J&R (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Look for B&H, Adorama, J&R (Score:3, Informative)
But B&H and Adorama are both great. I've never bought anything
Not always (Score:5, Insightful)
So there ARE reputable dealers in New York, you just need to be careful. One thing to check is to see if they are authorized dealers. You can't fake something like that (Yamaha does the listing on their own site) and that's not something that a scammy, fly-by-night is going to do since the company wouldn't license them anyhow. If they are an authorized dealer for the companies that do that kind of thing, they are probably on the up and up.
Rule of thumb... (Score:4, Insightful)
Amusing Project (Score:2, Interesting)
Not so funny, I'm sure, if you fall for one of their tricks. Just buy for the good ones, seriously, B&H, Adorama, etc... (although I know tons of people have horror stories about both of those, and any other reputable camera dealer).
It's true (Score:3, Informative)
Re:It's true (Score:2)
Wow... (Score:5, Interesting)
Luckily, they're not the most intelligent people, as the voicemail seems to show. Calling someone a "bitch" repeatedly and threatening to kill them via an easily traced means is just asking for legal trouble. They don't know how to deal with the actual bad publicity they're starting to get. (Ratings sites are not actual bad publicity, since hardly anyone uses them, and there are many different ones).
I have a feeling this sort of scam will disappear in due time. It's getting harder and harder to hide from geeks with net connections and blogs, and bad word of mouth, unlike bad "reviews," is killer for a business. Just think of how many techies you know who refuse to buy a particular brand of hard drive simply for hearing about a friend's bad experience once.
Oh, the rest is a total shameless plug, but we did a bit [frontrowcrew.com] about this on GeekNights [frontrowcrew.com] last Thursday.
Re:Wow... (Score:2)
1) Don't over estimate the influence of geeks. They're really an insignificant proportion of the population, even with their supposed influence of others around them.
2) If we listened to every geek's complaint about certain brands of hard drive, we wouldn't buy any. Every brand has had a problem at some point in time. Which just goes to reinforce what I said for 1).
Re:Wow... (Score:5, Insightful)
You're new to this life, aren't you? The birth rate in the sucker demographics category is way too high for these scams to disappear anywhere within the forseable future.
PriceWatch and ResellerRatings (Score:4, Informative)
PriceWatch.com [pricewatch.com]
ResellerRatings.com [resellerratings.com]
Re:PriceWatch (Score:3)
No... not true at all... the reason I have always used Pricewatch is that they _don't_ spider sites... each item listed on pricewatch is entered _by the the company providing the product_.
This makes pricewatch stand apart because the price that is on the website is actually the advertised price from the companies selling things.... so if they try to give you a different price when you actually order, you have some ground to
Nothing New (Score:4, Insightful)
The fun part is that it highlights something that most people ignore. They will not think twice buying from someon on ebay with a 1000+ rating yet it is really simple to BUY rating points. (hint: search ebay for cupons) If you spend lots of money on something online and the price is too good to be true, be ready to lose your cash.
BTW: if it's less than $1000.00 you are pretty much hosed. I lost $500.00 to a scammer auto parts dealer on the east coast (read my blog for the name and location) and after getting my lawyer poised and finding out how much to bring the small claims suit against them It was much cheaper to simply drop it as it would have cost me $1500.00 to sue him... These scammers know this and that is why they rarely venture over that $1000.00 line.
Re:Nothing New (Score:3, Informative)
Most state filing fees are under $100, and in some states you can even re
Just use Amazon or NewEgg (Score:5, Interesting)
When you see a site advertising a given model for $100 to $250 less than everyone else, well, do you really think they plan to take a loss on the camera itself? And even if they did take a small loss (such as at-cost with free shipping), they sure as hell won't sell for less than they can ever dream of making back even if you bought every overpriced accessory they offer.
Just save yourself the trouble and use a reputable dealer like Amazon or NewEgg for any electronics. They usually have close to the lowest price, and factoring in the BS as part of the cost, they almost always win without even a second thought.
PriceRitePhoto = Bad / BestBuy = Nice ? (Score:4, Funny)
I'd never trust a store who couldn't spell "right" correctly anyway. All you Grammar Nazis were right.
Re:PriceRitePhoto = Bad / BestBuy = Nice ? (Score:2)
Re:PriceRitePhoto = Bad / BestBuy = Nice ? (Score:2)
In this case, that would be the Spelling Nazis, not the Grammar Nazis.
Slashdotted... heres some info from the site (Score:3, Informative)
They all researched the cameras they wanted, and they thought they had adequately investigated the dealers. They saw the full-page ads in major photo magazines, the professionally-designed websites, the high dealer ratings on prominent search-sites. They saw all the trappings of the modern online secure shopping site. They trusted that their credit card companies, the respected magazines, and even the states which are home to the merchants, would help ensure a good transaction. And, of course, the prices were hard to resist. Why were our friends ultimately disappointed?
We took a look at some of the factors and some of the businesses involved, and we offer the information we've found to all who are considering purchasing cameras, video equipment and electronics from the comfort of their living rooms and offices.
This website is a partial scorecard. We hope it will help readers understand who some of the better-known dealers are, what's behind the ads and websites, and how to find further information.
We believe that open information benefits both consumers and dealers. We think the whole photographic industry -- hobbyists, professionals, dealers and manufacturers -- is healthier when consumers have clear idea of how to research a transaction and whom they will be dealing with.
We've tried to make these pages accurate. All the information included is from public sources. If you know of any errors, please inform us and we will correct them at once. If you have further information you think we should be aware of, contact us. (Please -- no rumors or speculation; only confirmable facts.)
Our contact details are here.
WELL KNOWN DEALERS
We have examined some of the online dealers who specialize in cameras and electronics, looking behind the ads and websites to find out who they are and how they do business. We chose some of the most visible companies -- the ones with heavy national advertising and prominent ranking on internet search engines. Many of them have sprung up in the last few years, while some have been around online and in traditional stores for decades.
Judging from customer surveys, newsgroup discussions and published articles, some of them are held in high regard while others are despised.
There were some surprises. The biggest one is that many apparently separate and competing dealers are actually jointly owned and run. This is no secret to followers of the many online photography and video forums, but we believe the intertwining is unsuspected by most consumers. On this site we've grouped many of the dealers into "families" to clarify their identities. They form a truly tangled web, with many overlapping corporate connections, addresses and telephones.
Another surprise was that some dealers act mainly as brokers, with little or no inventory of their own and no "real stores." In our opinion this should not disqualify a business from consideration, but it does contribute to frequent misunderstandings about what is "in stock".
The biggest obstacle to any research is that some dealers go to great lengths to conceal their locations and management. Sadly, this disguising seems to be the norm for many newer, web-only merchants.
We believe that open information benefits both consumers and dealers.
We have included the names of individuals where we could find them, so that consumers know whom to contact with compliments or questions or complaints about a specific transaction.
We believe that a businessperson who is proud of the way his or her business is conducted will be proud to be publicly associated with it.
Some of our information may be out of date, as some companies may change location, telephone numbers or personnel. We welcome updates or corrections via email here.
Sources Cited Much of the information on these pages is attributed to these sources:
Re:Slashdotted... heres some info from the site (Score:3, Informative)
A couple of points on numbers 3 and 4:
3. Check your state laws. Several states have laws on the books that say that, for returns of defective products, the vendor cannot charge a restocking fee even on return for refund. Some may require the vendor to cover return shipping as well. Returns because of mere dissatisfaction with the item (that is, the item isn't defective, merely not what you wanted) aren't covered by this. Find out what the law is, then pay with a major credit card so you can do a charge-bac
"Shyster"? (Score:2)
Re:"Shyster"? (Score:2)
ahref=http://www.wordreference.com/definition/shy
Re:"Shyster"? (Score:3, Informative)
http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=shyster [princeton.edu]
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=shyster [reference.com]
Where did the Judaism ref com into things?
Justin.
Re:"Shyster"? (Score:5, Informative)
In all likelihood it got dragged into the U.S. via Yiddish, hence the Semitic connection. Calling a Jewish lawyer a shyster is probably rather tasteless.
Not Limited to High-Tech (Score:4, Interesting)
I have no idea how many companies are doing business selling car parts on the Internet but I'm sure that it's a small fraction of the "front-ends" that appear to be doing business.
--Richard
I paid $100 for a headlight for
which the dealer quoted me $240.
Feedback System (Score:3, Insightful)
The site is up and down like a yoyo right now so I can't find out how they are gathering their information, I mean if it's all anecdotal how do they discern between legitimate issues, PO'ed customers or just plain ol' bad luck?
Personally, I only buy big ticket electronics and camera gear from local vendors because there is a bit less risk (i.e. no shipping) and I can put a human face on the store I'm buying from. I guess the other thing that makes me dubious about some online deals is when a vendor is claiming to sell something way below MSRP, that little "it's too good to be true" voice pipes up in my head.
the internet is the great equalizer (Score:3, Insightful)
you guys realize there are some negatives to this idea? such as da wiseguys in crooklyn reaching out too?
"yeah, it just fell off da back of a truck, yeah da receipt is for a refiderator, so what's it to you mr. palookaville? you gonna come to brooklyn and make something of it, huh?"
Free market solution? (Score:5, Interesting)
As the percentage of technically-savvy individuals grows, information about a dealer or retailer can be distributed in seconds. Thousands of individuals can moderate (or rate) a seller, and sellers can moderate (or rate) buyers instantly. eBay handles these transactions with very little government involvement or force.
Scammers (such as the photo retailers) have been suckering people for DECADES. This is WITH government "protection" that many citizens believe they can rely on, yet we still see thousands of people getting swindled.
As the old generation moves out of the buying phase and the new generation becomes the big power in buying, we will see less swindling and scamming. It is already very hard to scam someone in my age range (low 30s) as most of us check online before buying a large item. Google is adapting much of their search ability to cellphones (WAP, SMS and other means). I already check items out through my wireless PDA phone when I am on the go. I've saved myself a few hundred dollars by not purchasing items with bad reviews. I found these reviews through my phone in mere moments.
The old ways of the retail industry are dying. As a retailer myself (who lost one of our stores because of a scamming employee and manager base), I know that the customer has more power than I do. When all you had was a local shop to buy from, you weren't able to negotiate for better quality, service or pricing. With next day service from thousands of online shops, the retailers are put on notice that they better offer more than just a product, or they'll go out of business.
These photo scams will end without much government involvement. If they broke a contract or agreement, I can understand calling a lawyer. Hopefully in the short run enough people will comment about their bad experiences that the companies will be punished before more people are scammed -- and I see the strength of scammers quickly weakening as information is globally available, instantly.
Re:Free market solution? (Score:3, Insightful)
Being pro-market, you support a dreamworld that doesn't and will never exist. The problem is that you (and way too many people in way too important positions) don't realize that free market theory is based on a number of highly unrealistic assumptions and will thus never work the way it is advertised.
In an ideal free market, this problem would not even exist. One of the assumptions is that all participants have complete, truthful informa
Re:Free market solution? (Score:5, Insightful)
That is NEVER an assumption -- in fact I believe the counter-fact to be true. In a free market, every transaction is based on the assumption that both parties feel they are profiting from the transaction. This case is based on the risk versus reward idea. The bigger the reward is, the bigger one assumes the risk is. If Camera W123 sells locally for $499, at Amazon for $449, and John's Photo Shop sells it for $379, you're gaining a huge reward. If you jump on that price, you're accepting a risk. It is personal greed that leads people to buy from deep discounters, and they have to acknowledge that there is always a risk in making a purchase. The reason many people buy locally for more money is to lower their risk.
The problem is, of course, that our governments, pretty much no matter which one you choose, are not exactly breeding pools or good examples of honesty and integrity
This is true -- government tends to be run by scammers and shysters, in my experience.
What you're advocating is putting government in charge of markets -- the same government that is never transparent, hides information "legally" and has zero oversight except for a vote once every 4 years or so. I advocate dumping the government provisions and letting the new Internet information sharing structure take over. Now, we have instant voting based on consumer demand. If a lot of consumers get duped by a company, we'll soon have the ability to broadcast that information over many different sources.
I'd like to see an SMS server where you can message a number "JohnPhotoShop.com" and have it return "50 positives, 300 negatives, 15 neutrals" I believe this will happen, very soon, as Google and many other companies are trying to gain brand share by providing free SMS services. I use FBOWEB.COM to track all my flights and used the free PDA version of the site for a few months. Now I purchased a subscription as the site is really worth the information I've received -- and it is always more accurate than what the airlines provide.
I don't think government has protected us from scammers, ever. If anything, the platforms made by government are only used by scammers to find new loopholes (as is seen in the New York Photo scam that has been going on for 20 years). Now that information is available to EVERYONE, there is no excuse to getting scammed. Even some posts on slashdot today show that people didn't research the too-good-to-be-true pricing, and got scammed. Greed: you get what you deserve.
Re:Free market solution? (Score:4, Insightful)
And soon, there will be 50 competing services of that kind, half of which receive kickbacks from the companies they rate well. How do you choose which service to trust? Maybe a meta-service that rates the info-services? Soon, there will be 50 competing meta-services...
I don't think government has protected us from scammers, ever.
I actually think it has. Not 100%, not ever perfectly and completely. However when I travel on the train and I'm not afraid of robbers, then to be quite honest it's not because I think any of my fellow travellers would stand up and stop them - it's because government has been successful in keeping crime rates at such a level that being robbed is an unlikely event.
As they say...... (Score:3, Insightful)
Why not Amazon? (Score:2)
What's wrong with Amazon for electronics?
Other recommended online shopping sites (Score:3, Informative)
Newegg (low prices, responsive customer service, prompt, very wide selection)
ZipZoomFly (lots of free 2nd day shipping, low prices, responsive customer service)
TechForLess (Bought an open-box UPS from them. Prompt, good prices)
AtomicPark (Software mainly but good prices and free shipping for holidays)
Amazon (books, cds, dvds)
Re:As they say...... (Score:5, Informative)
Those are the only two stores I have ordered off of in the past year... and I've ordered thousands of dollars worth of things for my house (just got married)...
Trying to get the extra $5 off of something by using some shady site just isn't worth it anymore. Newegg and Amazon are always within 1% of the bottom of the barrel sites and I don't even have to think twice about ordering from them (actually... my credit card is just saved at both.... so I can order at will).
A little piece of mind is worth a lot!
Friedmud
Global karma/integrity/reputation/rating system... (Score:2)
Other tricks (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyway, I did get my camera, and you know what? It came with a high speed SD card. I wouldn't be surprised if they all ship like that, and they just do the high pressure sales thing to jack their profit margin up when they can.
It's pretty easy to identify the unscrupulous... (Score:2)
I've stuck to these rules and I've never experienced any trouble.
Re:It's pretty easy to identify the unscrupulous.. (Score:3, Funny)
Credit card overcharge protection (Score:5, Informative)
After the purchase you can modify the amount or date and even cancel the number.
It won't stop you from making a dumb purchase but it will prevent excessive charges and unauthorized addtional charges to your credit card.
Did anybody RTFA??? (Score:2)
Cheesy reviews (Score:3, Insightful)
"Timely shipping!" That one is my favorite fake review. Um, you ship via UPS or FedEx Ground. It's 3 days, no matter how you slice it. How can it not be timely?
"Great Customer Service!" Another of my favorites. The person hasn't done anything but buy something, in all likely hood. There hasn't been any customer service up to that point.
"Easy to use website ordering!" Um, yeah, that's the first thing I look for when buying electronics over the web.
If the review doesn't bring up any points, or doesn't provoke any honest thoughts, it is probably fake. Read the actual negative reviews.
Besides, why does this surprise anyone? The same thing can be said for almost every PC/XBox, PS/PS2 magazine or website. They all get such pats on the back from the companies they review, that they don't have an honest review in them. It's the equivelent of letting a lifelong, die-hard Rolling Stones fan review one of their concerts. The review is going to read "Dude, they Rawked!", even if Keith Richards was so stoned he forgot to play his guitar.
Mail Order, then Online... (Score:5, Informative)
...the same rules apply now that applied 35 years ago when I started buying photo equipment. Most are places that will screw you one way or another. Some are downright crooks. And there are a few gems that stay in business year after year, garnering more and more loyal customers even though their prices aren't rock bottom.
Personally, I use BHPhotoVideo.com [bhphotovideo.com] for darn near everything photographic. Some things, like flash brackets, are personal taste problems. You just gotta touch and feel before buying. But for everything else, B&H is either the best or so close I can't tell the difference. They're businesslike (even brusque, sometimes) on the phone but they're also professional and reliable. The number of similarly high-quality online dealers in this market segment can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Actually, you only need two - B&H and Adorama. [adorama.com] There are a few specialty dealers who are good for other things and if you need what they sell, they're wonderful. But for the full line of general photo gear available online, it's B&H and Adorama.
The best guidance I know of for buying a camera or related equipment in the U.S. is at photo.net. [photo.net]
Just buy from B&H Photo or Adorama (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.bhphoto.com/ [bhphoto.com]
http://www.adorama.com/ [adorama.com]
The markups on electronics are very slim. If someone is selling you an electronic product for hundreds below everyone else you're being ripped off.
For the record... (Score:3, Informative)
2. The word "shyster" was nowhere in my submission.
3. Many members send in links to promote commercial sites. The site I submitted is more or less a public service.
4. DANGEROUS GROUND alert! Perhaps slashdot should examine whether the shopping comparison site it is allied with is one of those that allows itself to be used by the villains we've been discussing. (Look up your favorite digital camera, and see what dealers show up near the top of the list with clusters of rave reviews.)
No, it just means unscrupuolus lawyer. Or shitter (Score:5, Informative)
unscrupulous lawyer 1843, U.S. slang, probably altered from Ger. Scheisser "incompetent worthless person," from Scheisse "shit," from O.H.G. skizzan "to defecate" (see shit). [etymonline.com]
shyster--'shIs-t Etymology: probably from German Scheisser, literally, defecator [m-w.com]
: one who is professionally unscrupulous especially in the practice of law or politics : PETTIFOGGER
You're not helping anyone. You make people with a legitimate beef look petty and you present people with no bad intentions at all as anti-semitic (or specifically anti-Jewish, as there are a lot more semitic people than just Jews).
Now, go into a closet and say "niggardly" a hundred times.