Best Buy Says Customers Not Always Right

linuxwrangler writes "Best Buy is one of the retailers that has now decided that the customer is not always right. Best Buy consultant Larry Selden has identified "demon customers" like those who file for a rebate then return the item. OK, I get that one (hey Best Buy: dump those customer-despised rebates and you won't have that problem...). Other categories like customers who only buy during sales are more interesting. Best Buy declined comment on how they are dealing with those customers. Some stores have actually "fired" customers. Welcome to the end result of all that customer information data mining."

Re:Always right....?

Argh... I *hate* the way they aggressively push that damned ripoff service plan. I once bought a TV at Worst Buy, and the last thing the clerk said to me wasn't "Thank you", it was "You realize that if it breaks you can't bring it back here."

Re:Always right....?

Even worse - when I bought a Playstation 2 there, The clerk gave me her pitch and said multiple times that she doesn't get commission. Then after I told her I wasn't interested, she let it tip over and fall on its side as if she was emphasizing how easy it was for it to break. Yeah, they know how to treat their customers right.

Re:Always right....?

I always find "No thanks, under EU law it's covered by the manufacturer for five years anyway" is a great way to shut them up.

Re:Always right....?

"Extended warranties" are just a cheap form of insurance policy, with a one-payment premium, no surrender value and {probably} a claims procedure designed to discourage claims. Great for the insurance company, but to get the best value out of it as a customer, you really need your own paper recycling facility. Yet, incredibly, people are stupid enough to pay for them. This suggests to me that they don't know how something works, whether that's the insurance or the electronics. But then again, there's a fine tradition of getting fat off other people's ignorance .....

Having worked in the electronics industry, I know about the bathtub curve (the probability of failure plotted against time resembles a side view of a bathtub ..... drops sharply over the first few months, stays constant, begins rising again after a fixed time). In fact, we used to deliberately pre-stress many of the units we made, by running them for a few hours at high ambient temperature and then rapidly cooling them, before giving them a final test. Better an important component fails in our test chamber than on the customer's premises ..... especially if the thing is strapped to the engine of a muddy tractor ..... And for the failure rates we experienced and the cost of corrective action {most of the failures were repairable ..... unless they went on fire ..... it was always fun when that happened} this testing was still cheaper, and less work, than honouring a warranty.

The point is, if just about anything electronic doesn't break within the first year -- where it's covered by law -- then it'll probably last ten years or more. {Of course you have to allow for the Six B's (batteries, bulbs, brushes, belts, bearings, blades); but since these are usually designed to be field-replaceable, they fall outside the scope of any warranty.} Extended warranties are almost never worthwhile -- if you ever have to claim on it, a new appliance even better than the one you bought probably will not cost you much more than the extended warranty plan.

Re:Always right....?

Looking at the mail address ajs318 might be british. I don't know if they have legally mandated coverage, but here in Denmark we have 2 years (with a change in the "burden of evidence" after six months, after that the customer needs to argue that the defect was not caused by treating the item wrongly). There are of cause stores that try to weasel out, but then there is a cheap (~$10, refunded if you win), government sponsored organisation to complain to, and in the worst case the courts and the media to help you (obviously this does not work in all cases, but if you avoid really shady businesses it gives quite good protection).

Re:Always right....?

In 1999 I bought a stereo system from BestBuy. I was going to get a free sub-woofer but they were "out" of them so i got a rain-check. After visiting the store about 10 times over the next 6 weeks to get the woofer, I finally became so irrate that I virtually turned the store upside down talking to the managers.

After the heated discussion, I went out to my car and got a book I had laying in the car and went back to the same manager, now engaged in another discussion with a customer and said "Here! You take this book since I believe you have an urgent need for it!" The books name was "Customer Service for Dummies". I ended up getting a much more expensive woofer than the cheap one they bundled with the stereo system.

BestBuy hear this: Since 1999 I have not been inside one of your stores and I have spent over $20000 on consumer electronics. Money that your stores could have gotten if you had people with the faintest clue on how to treat customers. Remember BestBuy, it's customer like me who pay your paycheck!

Those bastards

At least you won. I purchased an open-box Viewsonic monitor years ago, with the promise (printed on the box in huge letters) that Best Buy would honor the manufacturer's warranty. Six months later, the monitor went Kaput. Best Buy no longer carried it, or ANY monitor that met the specs it had-- and refused to replace it. I was offered store credit only. Nothing they had would match the refresh rate and resolution of the broken monitor. I went around and around with them for months, finally receiving an email from customer service that "this was the last email I would receive on the subject."

While I'll admit to having bought a DVD or two there in the intervening four years, they haven't seen a dime for hardware or software. Which, as in your case, has been a significant amount.

The problem, though, is that there is no real alternative. When BB screwed me, I tried other stores-- but when my HDTV failed it took HHGregg (local electronics chain) 4 house calls followed by SIX WEEKS in the shop to diagnose and repair it, despite promising 1-week turnaround. They missed four promised delivery dates to return the set after that.

Circuit City hasn't done it yet, but I can't imagine they're any more honorable than the rest.

What do you do when ALL your choices are like that? Stop buying, I guess.

Re:Always right....?

"BestBuy hear this: Since 1999 I have not been inside one of your stores and I have spent over $20000 on consumer electronics."

Buying a stereo at Best Buy? Ick...just can't imagine paying money for the typical consumer crap they sell there. If you bought $20K over the years...and started back then with better equipment...think of where you'd be now? A quality sounding system that will last....not some crappy bose system, with sanyo componets..etc....

Just advice...if you want to put together a GOOD lifetime sound sytem...buy quality...buy it one piece at a time over the years....it is worth it in the end.

Do your research...look for bargains, and they can be had...but, in the end...you WILL pay for quality in audio....but there is a difference and you will hear it..

Re:Those bastards

"Get real," yourself. A refund hardly seems out of their reach, or asking too much. The monitor was still being manufactured, Best Buy had just stopped carrying it. And if they couldn't provide a replacement that did what the original did-- a plain old refund seems like the best option. Store credit is no help if the store no longer stocks what you're after. I ended up with a crappy monitor and $200 left over to spend at Best Buy, when what I wanted was a good monitor.

If I had been older, richer, and had the time, I would have sued them. The terms of their warranty were clear-- they agreed to uphold the terms of the manufacturer's warranty. THAT warranty was quite clear that replacement, if the original model was unavailable, would be with an equal or better product. As it was, I was a poor recent college grad, and didn't realize I had such a high chance of winning. Lesson learned, though-- the next time it happens, we're going straight on to small claims court. Nothing else will work when a company refuses to do the right thing.

And while we're at it, why does *everything* suck so much? My recent experiences include the previously-mentioned fiasco with HHGregg ("it will be done in a week" when the part wasn't even ordered for another three weeks, despite knowing what was wrong) as well as:

1. Moved, set up new phone line. Three days later, SBC cancels both new AND old phone lines, removes DSL orders. 7 hours of phone calls later, I had my line and a $150 credit. But it shouldn't have happened, and it shouldn't have been that hard to fix.

2. Had Brighthouse cable at old house. Picture was snowy (not just "i'm a picky video nut" snowy, but roughly 50% noise) but technician claimed that quality was acceptable. When asked, technician was unable to read text on CNN on a 43" screen.

3. T-Mobile sidekick. So poorly built that I needed four replacement units in six months. Service was terrible-- calls never ring, etc...

4. DirecTV installer missed two appointments, failed to install grounding block (while lying to say that he had, and I just couldn't see it from the ground...) Installer at new house was better, but was still three hours late for his four-hour appointment window.

5. HHGregg delivered TV to wrong address.

6. Hotel on vacation last month tried to double(!!) my booked rate on checkout. I was lucky to have a printed receipt with me-- they claimed they had never offered the lower rate.

Does ANYBODY have good customer service anymore? Or is screwing us just "good business" now? I spend an awful lot of time fighting just to get the things I paid for. Which makes me laugh about this article-- the article makes it sound like Best Buy *just recently* decided that it wanted to treat customers like crap. It's been standard operating procedure there for years.

Circuit City's extended warranty

After a few more problems with the way BB treats its customers I don't shop there anymore. There is a Circuit City right across the street.

My family has had several great experiences with Circuit City. We bought an open-box big screen TV (for a good bit less than a new one), which promptly broke a week later. As frustrating as that was, Circuit City delivered a brand new one the next day, at no cost to us. When this same TV broke again a few years later (bad model, i suppose) we called in to have it serviced under the extended warranty. Also another poor experience at first, as the repairman seemed relatively clueless and couldn't fix the TV, but a few weeks later when the TV still hadn't been fixed, Circuit City gave us store credit for the full price (unopened box) of the TV when it was new. That let us upgrade our 4:3 standard resolution TV to a bigger 16:9 HDTV for something like $60 more.

As much as I hate those 'extended warranties', Circuit City's definitely turned out in our favor.

Re:Extended warranties

Exactly ..... they're a gamble. Next time you're in a bookie's shop -- preferably around the time of some important sporting fixture, so it's nice and packed -- add up the estimated total wealth of all the punters, and compare it to the estimated total wealth of the owner.

On which side of the glass is there more money?

That's not to say you can't make money out of gambling, far from it. If you can estimate the odds better than the bookie, then you're on a winning ticket. But electronic component failure is fairly random -- more like the lottery or the roulette table -- whereas performances in sports are somewhat predictable (and, crucially for a gambler, can be influenced by events occurring after the odds have been fixed, but before the game is played).

Re:Always right....?

Reminds me of when I tried to buy a mobile phone in Phones4U (a UK chain). I did my research, told the salesman which phone I wanted and on which priceplan. He tried to upsell me to a different phone; I said no. He tried to upsell me to a different price plan; I said no. He tried to sell me insurance; I said no.

He then started to plead with me that if I didn't buy anything extra or more expensive, he wouldn't make any commission. Eventually he said he'd need the manager's approval to sell me an item that was advertised on the shop floor and that I was trying to buy! At that point I walked out of the store, to his apparent amazement. (Though the amazement was all mine when I saw the same guy working there a year later. If he's as efficient at getting rid of other customers as he was with me, it's amazing the store is still open.)

Re:Always right....?

Yep. They are used to being able to gouge the customers. My father wanted to buy a truck, and unlike the rest of us, he has enough money he can just up and pay cash for it. He went to the local Toyota dealer, negotiated a price on it, and then the guy comes back "oh Im sorry, this model has such and such, its a little bit extra" ($1200!), so my father renegotiates, they shake on the deal again, the guy comes back, "I'm sorry my manager won't let me sell it at that price, he says it has to be at least..." At which point, My father says something like "fuck you" and the salesman looses the easiest sale of his entire life.

Fabric protection

We just ordered a table and chairs. The sales guy was really pushing the "fabric protection" crap that they spray on for another $45. I declined several times and he went ahead with the sale. We were sitting on a couch waiting for him to do paperwork when the store manager came by and said "whenever someone declines the fabric protection I have to find out why." We explained that we don't feel the need. I said I'd get it if they waived the sales tax (which they do for larger purchases). They ended up taking off 3 percent (tax is 6) which made it about the same price WITH the fabric protection. I spent the whole trip home trying to figure out why that's so important. My conclusions is the manager must get a bonus for selling this stuff and did so at the stores expense in this case - We paid the same price and got the stuff in addition to what we were willing to take home for that price.

Re:Always right....?

That's why I always go in claiming to want something smaller, and let them think they're selling me on more than I want. Like when I bought my new bike, I knew that I was in the $400-$600 market: I told the guy $300, maybe a bit higher, and walked out with a bike that was at $430. Let 'em think they're winning.

Re:Always right....?

You're not a very well educated consumer. At that point you walk out of the store and purchase your playstation 2 elsewhere. Or did you not know that it's available in about a thousand other places

Best Buy may not think the customer is always right, but you as a customer always has the last say.

Re:Always right....?

I had a co-worker who previously worked at BB. He said that while he did indeed NOT receive a commission while at BB, his boss did. He said the sales people were regularly reminded by the manager that failing to sell the extended warranty was like taking money from his wallet. Needless to say there is plenty of incentive for these kids to get the extended warranty on the sale.

He also said that he regularly saw his boss, who DID receive commission, lie to customers and say that he didn't.

Another irritation is that even with the extended warranty, you can expect to be without your item for quite some time if it breaks. I had a camcorder which broke within 4 months of purchase. It took 6 weeks to be repaired. That was pretty annoying since we went on a family vacation during that time.

Re:Always right....?

I was actually assaulted at a Best Buy for refusing to purchase a PSP (pushed), and then they refused to bring my item to the front register to purchase saying "You can't buy it now"

The operations manager was in the store so I found him and I told him what had just happened (had witnesses, and they have video surveillance) and I said I wanted an assurance that the two employees you assaulted and insulted me would be reprimanded, we went over to where they were and essentially I had to argue with them and the manager just to get the manager to get them to say they shouldn't have done that. I wanted those people fired after having been treated that way, I didn't want these two jerks bullying people there ever again. In the end the manager said "We will deal with them as we see fit" and after all that he says, well you can buy the TV if you want.

I said if you aren't going to fire two employees who assaulted and insulted a customer than I'm not buying anything from your store.

I never went back to that branch again, MAPLEWOOD MINNESOTA, I have had enough experiences with Best Buy that intrestingly enough I still am a customer... I did specifically spend money elsewhere for a few years after that experience however.....

Re:Always right....?

I was looking for a second TV but I was being as frugal as possible, but I also wanted to get the highest quality I could afford. I was working with a Female sales associate who treated me just fine, I had some question she couldn't answer so she went back to ask a co-worker when she came back out two gentlemen (or not so gentle actually, as it turns out.) started to help me, I explained what I was thinking and that I had my eye on an open box Toshiba, they suggested the PSP and I said 'It's an analog TV it only needs to last me 2-3 years (till HD) and if it dies I don't really care as this is a secondary TV for my house) and if I buy that TV I can't afford the PSP.

Then (I shit you not) the one I had been talking with said "Well, you can't afford this TV then, you should get one that is cheaper so you can afford the PSP." I again politely said I am not interested in the PSP, I used toe work at Best Buy (yadda ya) I don't by a warranty unless it is 10% or less than the cost of the item because less than 10% of the electronics I buy either obsolete themselves or don't break within 4 years. The he was like "But do you know that the PSP covers.... I cut him off and said Look I don't want the PSP so please stop talking about it, I'm feeling harassed right now please stop asking me to buy it because the answer is No. Then I said I'd like this open box TV can you have it brought up to the register please. He said, "You should really buy the PSP." Then I calmly said "Do not mention the fucking PSP again, this is abusive, I have stated clearly 3 times that I am uninterested and have also kindly asked you to simply just stop talking to me about it at all. You don't seem to get it.

Here can you understand this "I don't want the fucking PSP"

Then quicker than lightning the other guy who was working with him was standing with his face less than 1/2 inch (really) from mine and said if you are going to swear I'm going to have to ask you to leave, you can't swear here. I said "I'm trying to leave but he won't stop badgering me about a PSP, he crossed the line and is being a jerk" - then the guy in my face pushed me, and I restrained myself entirely and said "Are you going to help me take the TV up to the front? He said "No." and then I said okay then I'll get a cart and do it myself, thanks for nothing. "He then said, you can't buy it" "I thought about engaging him in debate but said you don't have the right to tell me I can't you have assaulted and insulted me, you are not doing you job at all. Then I turned around and walked towards the operations center and talked with the manager we all went back to Home audio where they were now and I had to argue with them because all they would talk about was the fact that I swore (as a defense to the abusive tactics they were trying to employ). You know the rest I stated it above.

I did contact a Lawyer because I was so upset at how things had happened, however since it was at night I left a voicemail for him. I never got a call back and I just kinda let it go, knowing that people who act like that will eventually get theirs or learn to not act like that (either case is fine with me)

Ok, well

In a situation like this you go and pull out our cellphone (you likely have one), or if you don't have one go get another phone, and call the police. When it's all an video, it's all nice and clear cut. You would be amazed at what the threat of jail time can do to attitudes. Don't wait until later to get a lawyer or some such, call the police then and there. You may have to wait an hour or so (face it, getting pushed in a Best Buy doesn't rate as high on the list) but they will come, and if you press the issue, those repsonsible will be charged.

Don't follow Dick Chaney's example

"Do not mention the fucking PSP again, this is abusive, I have stated clearly 3 times that I am uninterested and have also kindly asked you to simply just stop talking to me about it at all. You don't seem to get it. Here can you understand this "I don't want the fucking PSP"

Rule #1: Never drop the f-bomb. It gets you noplace and changes the basis of the conversation. Forty years ago, it was shocking and people would react by surrendering. Today it just makes them angry and you immediately lose any opportunity to win the argument.

Nothing much

Most all manufacturers have warrantees. If a product breaks down on it's own, you can send it in (up to a year). On the other hand, if you have a service plan, you get about 3 years of coverage, you can take it back to the store for an instant return (rather then waiting for the mail) and the service plan covers you if you break it yourself (such as a broken screen on a PDA).

Re:Nothing much

On the other hand, if you have a service plan, you get about 3 years of coverage, you can take it back to the store for an instant return (rather then waiting for the mail) and the service plan covers you if you break it yourself (such as a broken screen on a PDA).

this is one of those BOLD lies that Worst Buy employees push on people.

the PSP does NOT cover customer abuse and specifically states that LCD screens on pda's and laptops are not covered for any reason what-so-ever.

the PSP is 100% worthless as the supposed "3 years" is really only 2 years as they intentionally forget the 1 year from the manufacturer.

read it VERY carefully.

Besides, the best argument that shut's them up is... "the company will not let us buy the PSP for company items."

always tell them you are buying it for your work. it shut's them up and eliminates their sales-pitch.

Re:Nothing much

i have a laptop sitting here that they absolutely refused to repair/replace under their "PSP" the backlight died 2 years into it's life and I have 1 year left on the PSP...

i was pointed to the clause specifically EXCLUDING the LCD screen. I pointed out that the PSP Ibought does not have that wording and I was told "we change the terms and wording all the time, and we reserve the right to do so without notification." and had it pointed out to me...

Then all smiles, "I can get an associate to help you buy another laptop."

Re:Always right....?

Honest to god I was told by a Best Buy sales associate that "If I didn't like the mp3 player, I can return it, file for rebate and come out on top." I think Best Buy needs to invest in employee training first before moving on to "firing" customers.

Re:Always right....?

Well.. if the return policy does not require to you to return the rebate cupons un-filled out.. then there is nothing wrong with an employee suggesting this.

The problem is a broken return policy.

HEck.. the problem is a return policy at all!

A business is under no obligation legally to take back a returned item once sold, as long as it is not defective and was not sold under false pretenses. Businesses like BestBuy take returns in the first place as a courtesy to customers, because it's something people expect from large stores.

Re:Always right....?

Rebate forms aren't hard to come by; you can usually download them from the manufacturer's Web site. The proof-of-purchase is the receipt and usually a UPC from the box. And anyways, it's not reasonable to refuse to accept a return if the customer can't prove they didn't send the rebate in; what if they immediately sent in the rebate, then found the item didn't perform as expected?

Rebates, as compared to simply lowering the price, are designed to take advantage of people who will forget to fill out the forms, or who will make an error in doing so. Perhaps stores and manufacturers who try to take advantage of consumers in this way shouldn't be surprised when consumers try to take advantage back...

Re:Always right....?

Businesses like BestBuy take returns in the first place as a courtesy to customers, because it's something people expect from large stores.

Well, close. It's because of competition. If a competitor has a better return policy that's a good reason to buy from them instead. Their prices are so often the same that a different return policy could make a significant difference espeicially with higher priced items.

If they illiminated their return policy without lowering their prices their days would be numbered. In order to avoid losing business all the retailers would have to do it at the same time. Of course, some brick and mortar stores are now instituting 15% restocking fees for all non-defective returns just like many online retailers.

Re:Always right....?

A business is under no obligation legally to take back a returned item once sold, as long as it is not defective and was not sold under false pretenses. Businesses like BestBuy take returns in the first place as a courtesy to customers, because it's something people expect from large stores.

This is not true. Most states have laws on their books that say something to the effect of "Any buyer has the right to return an item within 3 days of purchase."

In addition, always buy with your credit card. Most credit cards have a 90 day return policy on any item you buy. They say, what they will do is refund your money if the merchant refuses to take the return back within 90 days. In actuality, they issue a chargeback to the merchant, and you get your money regardless. Of course the merchant is getting screwed, but remember folks, this is Best Buy. Fuck 'em. Until they stop using deceptive marketing practices like "FREE after rebate!". Of which, there are three rebates, and they purposefully disqualify you for some nitpicky reason like you forgot to dot an I on the rebate application, or each one of the 3 rebates requires the Original UPC code (not a copy), so you can only really get one of them.

The practices they have been engaging in for years are fraudulent and deceptive. They shouldn't be surprised to find out that some customers are manipulating these processes for their own gain (getting rebates after returning the items). The entire system would be far better if the FTC made rebates illegal. Everything would be one price, you would pay that price, and that's it. This will never happen though, because the government likes the higher sales tax they get, because customers pay the sales tax on the original price, not the price they get after rebate.

Re:Always right....?

I thought extended warranties ruined the consumer electronics market... Now I think rebates are taking it to a new low. Here's my story:

At an electronics store I worked at in 1985 and 1990, they were pushing "extended warranties" (essentially 2-year over the counter replacement plans), and were telling us they were over 90% pure profit for the company. These plans were about 8-10% of the purchase price.

I did my part as a salesman and always took the customer's word of a problem on any "replacement plan" return. I did have to see a demonstration of the problem (company rules), but once shown the problem I never argued about it and sided with the customer. One great example had a customer who bought a dictation recorder that had "auto reverse" when recording, so both sides of the tape could be recorded on without flipping the cassette. it was a very cool feature at the time and it cost a cool $99 back then. When it came back busted some time later, I told him that model was discontinued and we don't have any more. The only replacement was a $249.00 unit that was the only model that currently recorded in auto reverse. The customer balked and said he wasn't going to spend the extra money and the auto reverse was not that important to him. I gently reminded the customer that we are required to give him an "equivalent model" as a replacement.

He suddenly got a clue and said yes, the auto reverse is a very nice feature indeed. The manager came over and I told him this was the only model with the features of his broken unit. The customer got the $249 unit and left very happy (bought another plan too, at a prorated price). The odd thing is, management did not care how many replacements were done, they only wanted the number of plans SOLD.

That serves the company right for shoving these plans down the salespeople's throats, and I managed to do it all within the framework of the company's rules. My job was customer service and sales, and harassing customers over these things was not serving the customer. I thought replacement plans were very worthwhile on certain items only, such as cassette-type Walkmans (this was in the mid-late 80's). These saw tons of abuse by joggers and were lucky to last 6-12 months. I saw lots of these come back after a few months with unhappy customers and determined these were the only thing I ever thought a replacement plan was good for.

In 1990, the company switched to a 3rd party warranty provider that said basically said they repair it. If it breaks more than twice in a 2, 3 or 5 year period, it would be replaced. Then work really started shoving these plans that cost up to 33% of the product price down our throats. We were required to sell 5% of our total sales with these plans. Later, this rose to 8% then 10%. Failing to meet quota meant lowered commission percentages and possible suspension.

In the end I and another worker were suspended over not selling enough of these. I waited the full week, then called in to say I wasn't coming in anymore. My coworker did the same. It made no difference.

One year later there was an article in the paper over this 3rd party not honoring the plans sold by my company because the company failed to pay them their share of the warranty price.

Re:Always right....?

No highly modded post has mentioned this yet, so I'll do it. From the article:
"Best Buy executive vice president Philip Schoonover said the idea of "firing" some customers is one place where Best Buy disagrees with Selden. The company will try to find ways to make money-losing customers profitable, he said."

In other words, the article summary (as so many /. summaries are) is wrong. The Best Buy VP specifically said "firing" customers is wrong. I'm not saying I like Best Buy or their rebate policies, or pushy sales reps, or questionable return policies, but they (apparently) are NOT looking at "firing" customers.

-Trillian

Re:Always right....?

oh god, don't get me started.

one day I went in to get a replacement xbox. No one wanted to help me, but thats cool cause I didn't need help. As soon as I picked up the xbox box, a salesperson came up to me to pitch the product replacement plan. Then, after she left, another salesperson came up to pitch the same thing. After I explained that I had already been approached, she told me that I should probably get a memory card and xbox live, and that the console only came with one controller. Politely I declined and headed up to the register. At the register, the clerk again asked me if I wanted to buy the product replacement plan (honestly, I expected the lady at the register to ask me, so that didn't bother me). Then the door greeter leaned over and told me I should buy a product replacement plan. Then the manager of the store came over and told me I should buy the product replacement plan.

If 1 simple 'no' would have sufficed, having 5 people confront me probably wouldn't be so bad. But when you have to tell each person no at least 3 times, it gets a little old.

So, I promptly chewed out the manager for having pushy employees, cancelled my sale after the credit card transaction when through, and vowed never to return to another Best Buy. Only once have I slipped up, and that time the same shit happened. My buddy was buying two DVDs, and got the store manager to come up to say "Hey, looks like you are buying PS2 games. You probably want a memory card to go with that."

My only regret is that I didn't adequately express my disgust to the store manager. I have a feeling that she liked the fact that her employees were pushy. I'm guessing for every person like me that walks out, there are 5 that cave in and buy that damned PRP.

I've delt with drug dealers that were less pushy then Best Buy employees. Now, I drive the extra 30 minutes to go to Fry's where no one bugs me until I ask a question.

Re:Always right....?

"I've delt with drug dealers that were less pushy then Best Buy employees. Now, I drive the extra 30 minutes to go to Fry's where no one bugs me until I ask a question."

You've gotten someone to actually help you at Fry's? The electronics/consumer crap store, right?

Wow. The most I've ever gotten is a date with one of the girls who works at the Earthlink kiosk.

Re:Always right....?

You've gotten someone to actually help you at Fry's? The electronics/consumer crap store, right?

Wow. The most I've ever gotten is a date with one of the girls who works at the Earthlink kiosk.

You know you're a geek when you complain about getting a date instead of assistance with electronics.

Re:Always right....?

No, you know you're not a geek when you can get a date and need assistance with electronics!

Re:Always right....?

I've delt with drug dealers that were less pushy then Best Buy employees. Now, I drive the extra 30 minutes to go to Fry's where no one bugs me until I ask a question.

You've gotten someone to actually help you at Fry's? The electronics/consumer crap store, right?

I can't speak for the original poster, but 99% of the time I don't want to be bothered by the sales staff. If I have a question, I'll ask. Otherwise, I'll go in, get what I want, and get out. On the handful of occasions that I've had a question to ask or needed other assistance, I've not had trouble getting it. Maybe Fry's Las Vegas store is better than some of their others...at least compared to some of their other stores, the Vegas store looks better-maintained.

I used to work at Best Buy (1994-1999, about 4 years at #289 and a bit less than 1 year at #122, both in Las Vegas). When I first started there, I thought it was cool that we were aiming to provide more or less the kind of shopping experience I'd prefer. Things stayed that way for maybe the first couple of years, but then there was a push from corporate to get more aggressive with accessories and extended warranties. (You know the deprogramming is complete when you no longer refer to extended warranties as "PSPs" and "PRPs.")

I think I continued picking up the odd gadget or two for about a year after I left, but a bad experience with customer service at one of the local stores has kept me away from Best Buy ever since. (They wouldn't exchange a book I had received as a Christmas present, even though I had purchased the exact same title there a month earlier as a Christmas present for somebody else. I wasn't even seeking a refund; I just wanted to turn it in and get something else. The Barnes & Noble two doors down had no problem taking it on exchange.)

Since then, I've had no use at all for Best Buy. Most of the time, the prices aren't that different going from one store to the next and there's nothing at Best Buy that I can't get elsewhere.

Re:Always right....?

...

the store manager to come up to say Hey, looks like you are buying PS2 games. You probably want a memory card to go with that.

Did the manager look like a badly-bent jumping paper-clip with bobbing eyes????

Re:Always right....?

I used to work at the big yellow tag (oh gosh I hope they don't track me down and kill me for this). I only worked there for a few weeks while I waited for my interview for a real job. Anyway, one night while we were closing the store some of the employees were crowded around one of my coworkers in my dept. (computers of course). One of them turned to me and said, "This guy can juggle anything". Sure enough, he was juggling 2 Hard Drives and a spool of CDRs. He dropped one of the harddrives and said "Oops, they better buy the service plan on that one!" ... Everyone chuckled.

It's not our fault. Honestly.

I work for a major department store chain as a your basic associate (younger geeks have to find crap first jobs as we all know). Now I agree with all of you when it comes to the shopping experience: leave me the hell alone, if I need your help I'll ask for it.

But the thing is, it's not how you or I want your shopping experience to be, it's how the management wants your shoppping experience to be.

I didn't say hi to you within 30 seconds of your walking into my department? Bad associate!

I did say hi to you, but a manager walked by so now they insist I have to say hi to you again, even though that just makes you mad.

Done shopping? NO! How about more of the stuff you've got now, but in different colors/styles or accessories even though you told me you only came in for a pair of socks.

Now you're done shopping? Would you like to put this on our store issued credit card? Don't have one? Well what's holding you back from opening a 25% interest account? I must insist!

(Incidentally they feed us BS saying that the real reason they issue cards is because those customers who have them tend to be more loyal and spend more than on your standard everyday credit card, but if that was the case why charge so much interest?)

Now that our transaction is complete, and all you want to do is get the hell out of here, would you like to fill out a feedback card describing your shopping experience and determing my worth as a human being to my superiors?

Unless your dealing with just a complete asshole, odds are the employee is as equally annoyed as you are by pushing those nonsense extras.

Cut us some slack ehh?

Re:Always right....?

I was in Best Buy and the only cashier on duty was holding up the line trying to sell an extended warranty on a Playstation 2 to a person who did not speak English. As typical for idiots compensating for a language barrier, she chose to speak louder as her solution.

"YOU are going to PLAY LOTS"
?
"LOTS!"
"no. play stay shun"
"GAMES! MANY GAMES!"
"games. yes."
"You WILL BENEFIT from EXTENDED WARRANTY if not WORK"
"i work. now play."

The fellow was paying cash and trying to hand over the money. He thought he was being accused of something after a while. She called over an interpreter who had a year of high school spanish. He was unable to communicate with the man because he couldn't phrase the speech into anything but very poor Castillian Spanish which confused the fellow even further (foreign language legal terms > foreign language > Unkown language with terms and words that sound like native language).

They wouldn't take his money until he either agreed or refused the warranty. I started to complain to the cashier and call for the manager. The manager of course said the cashier was being completely proper and that she had to complete the warranty transaction with all customers and I should be considering the benefits of buying an extended warranty for my own purchases.

At that point I walked up to the fellow and said "Say This: No Warranty. No Warranty. No Warranty."

I then handed my $400 item to the cashier and walked out the door vowing never to voluntarily return to that exploitative wasteland again.

I hate canned interviews that make no sense

The last two paragraphs are a great example of putting in a worthless interview that has nothing to do with an article, solely to defend an undefendable topic.

If best buy is sick of people using rebates, then stop offering them. Rebates work by the majority of people not using them, while thinking they are buying it at a great price. If people are going to use rebates without actually buying the item, Best Buy is going to have to live with that. If they think they can get it both ways, they are wrong. It is just another example of horrible customer service and deception backfiring, and then the company having such a great monopoly that they can somehow blame it on the customers, the very people they rely on to make money. Just absurd.

Re:I hate canned interviews that make no sense

I wouldn't say Best Buy has monopoly power here. Shop somewhere else! There's nothing that Best Buy sells that you can't get elsewhere. If you're in a rural area and they are the only store, go in there, test out whatever it is you want, then order it online. Some of these posts make it sound like people have been forced to the Best Buy cash register at gunpoint.

Re:I hate canned interviews that make no sense

Best Buy, like most stores that offer rebates, print and gives you an additional copy of the receipt for just that purpose. As for the UPC, Best Buy will accept photocopies of them. I found this out when I bought a HD form them and it had 2 rebates, one from the manufacturer and one from them. I called customer support for Best Buy and they said they accept photocopies in that case. Unfortunately I have still had the problem of the rebate check from Best Buy being $10 or so dollars short of what it was supposed to be though.....

Re:I hate canned interviews that make no sense

Rebates are not done just for the fact that some people won't claim them...

They're also done as a limiting mechanism for loss-leader items. If they want to reduce the price of an item to less than cost, they most likely want to make sure you can only claim that deal once... and that's where a rebate with "limit 1 per household" kicks in. Sure, some people might use two mailing addresses to get it twice, but nobody's going to be able to grab 20 of the item and get the post-rebate price.

Re:I hate canned interviews that make no sense

I did just that. In 2000, I had a web development client who knew I used to be in sales/service of PC equipment. So, he approached me about a dozen systems across a couple of his offices. System, with monitor, and printer, ready to go. I ordered a dozen boxes and monitors, and set one up, and ghosted the other 11, tested them all, and it was great, easy money, and I shipped the boxes directly to the offices where they needed to go, using his corporate shipping account.

But then came the printers. Well, a local Staples was having a sale on a perfect unit. I'd charged $100 for them, and these Canon printers were normally $90 each. Taht would have been $120 profit on 12, but there was a $30 in store instant rebate, AND a $30 mail-in rebate on each one too, bringing my efective cost down to $30 per unit. I figured even if I never saw the rebates, it was still $40 profit per printer alone, not to mention the computers. I sent in all 12 rebate coupons with the receipts and serial number stickers (there were copies in the box for just such a purpose), and waited. A mere two weeks later I received a dozen $30 checks from Canon in my mailbox, all on the same day.

You'd be astounded how loose they are with checking multiple rebates. I just did it again a couple weeks ago with 4 Netgear wifi routers.

Re:How is this a problem?

...they get to pass the savings onto the legitimate customers.

Riiiiiiiiight. As long as we're pipe-dreaming here, let's dream big and pretend that said savings will be delivered to me on a silver platter by a host of Playboy centerfolds, who will then proceed to sexually pleasure me in ways unknown to mortal men...

Re:How is this a problem?

"...a host of Playboy centerfolds, who will then proceed to sexually pleasure me in ways unknown to mortal men..."

Er, be advised, those 'ways' involve haggis and bagpipes.

Sincerely,

The Highlander

scammers

You will always get scammers, like people who the article description described (send rebate, then return), as well as people who purchase extended service plans, then static zap their video card, hook it up to 110 AC, or otherwise kill it after a couple years, and get a much better card in replacement. At least with data mining, you can identify suspect customers instead of just going on the manager's whim.

Re:scammers

The biggest scammers are the employees. I have a lot of friends that work at Best Buy, and I don't know one that hasn't tried to scam them. One scam includes buying stuff with their discount, then returning it at another store (without a receipt) for gift cards for the full price. Another breaks his TV every couple years to get a new one (but waits for this model to be not carried so he can get the latest and greatest). Instead of blaming the customers for whatever their worries are, try looking a little closer to home.

Re:scammers

Your "friends" sound like a bunch of assholes.

Re:scammers

Your "friends" sound like a bunch of assholes.

-1 Redundant: he already said they worked at BestBuy.

Re:scammers

I bought a set of car speakers at BB once.

When I took the purchase to the installer shop in the back, I had to walk out the front door, and around the entire frigging building to the shop in the back.

Could I step through the convenient door leading STRAIGHT into the car shop? Even with a manager watching me?

No.

Why?

By policy they were not allowed to unlock that door and allow passage through. This policy was put into place due to employee theft.

Re:scammers

There'd be nothing illegal about programming the store computer to detect the phone number or credit card of people who have more-frequent-than usual claims against the "purchase protection plan" schemes and then make sure to forget to prompt the salesperson to try to pitch the scheme to such people... or for that mater, raising the price for such people if they want that plan.

It's only illegal descrimination when you're manipulating prices or offers based on the so called "protected classes" mentioned in the laws. "One who frequently breaks stuff" is not such a class...

Re:scammers

You will always get scammers...

• 
  
• Mod parent up! [asshat.com] [a] by Anonymous Coward (Score:5) Thurs, June 31, @13:37
  

You sure will. :^)

::shakes head::

I've had staff members RECOMMEND that I do those things and take advantage of those annoying Best Buy "perks" that they are instructed to pitch at you.

Best Buy is totally aware that the customer would quickly think of ways of abusing the policy. But they already figured that would happen. They're banking on the gobs of people who are trying to be "decent", and Best Buy is just abusing that goodwill. Same thing with rebates. They assume (correctly) that most will forget about it, or not photocopy your UPC, then return the product.

The problem is that now, with the internet, these notions have spread far further than they projected. People do it out of spite, even if they end up wasting time and money doing these things.

So Best Buy could either demonize these customers who are acting just as they predicted we would, or adapt (maybe they could just provide better customer service?)

I guess customer profiling is the next best thing. It's like... you asked for it. Be prepared to fight for your right to abuse their policies... or get used to shopping with Amazon or Circuit City.

Sales customers

I would have thought that many of the customers who only buy during sales would be buying a lot more products than if they bought on a semi-regular (non-sale) basis. Surely this means that the customers make up in bulk for the slightly lower profit margin due to sales? After all, the point of sales is to attract a higher product turnover at a lower profit margin, so what are they complaining about?

Re:Sales customers

Not nessecairly. Another tactic of offering a product at a sale price is to get the customer physically into the store where you may encourage them to select a different product (at a higher profit), or purchase other products or accessories.

Re:Sales customers

That's a loss leader. As a customer, I consider the use of loss leaders to be sneaky at best, deceptive or even fraudulent at worst ("hey, we have the best prices in town, here's an example"). Even if you don't consider the use of loss leaders amoral, you can't possibly fault the customer for taking advantage of it.

Of course, you never said that you personally fault the customer. I just want to make sure that all the mods who called your comment insightful didn't think that, either.

Not allowed to only buy on sale???

What on earth is wrong with waiting until a sale is on til you buy whatever it is that you have your heart set on?

If it is an urgent purchase that can't wait, then buy it then and there, but if you're happy to wait until whatever it is goes on sale due to it no longer being the newest and shiniest widget, what is wrong with that?

This is penalising people who are swimming against the tide of instant gratification that our credit driven society has pushed.

People have done this from time immemorial in raiding the new years and mid year sales at department stores they don't otherwise shop at

Re:Not allowed to only buy on sale???

What on earth is wrong with waiting until a sale is on til you buy whatever it is that you have your heart set on?

The idea is that they put stuff on sale virtually at cost to lure you into the store, and then you're supposed to be a good little consumer and buy a bunch of other crap at full price. The store would prefer not to do business with people who don't fall for this ploy.

Re:Not allowed to only buy on sale???

The idea is that they put stuff on sale virtually at cost to lure you into the store, and then you're supposed to be a good little consumer and buy a bunch of other crap at full price. The store would prefer not to do business with people who don't fall for this ploy.

They should contact the music industry. We clearly have a case of theft here. People are stealing!! Those stores make a living out of selling you stuff and you are depriving them of the income. No, they have a right to make a living out of you and you clearlycircumvent their method to make you pay. I think we need a law against it so people (thieves) can't just come in and buy stuff on sale without buying other things too. The industry must lose billions each year.

Re:Not allowed to only buy on sale???

You don't even have to wait for the sale. I've grown the habit of always asking for 10 or 15 percent off any item over US$100. The worst that I get is "no", and that's rare. The only places I don't try it is restaurants and warehouse stores -- basically any other place where I have face-to-face contact with a sales agent.

When I go to Best Buy, I just ask for 10% off, tell them I saw it in a competitors advert. If they need help w/ the register transaction, I tell them "to hit F6". If I'm feeling frisky, I'll ask for 20 or 25, then play down to the 10 that I wanted. I've done this at least a dozen times at Best Buy, and it's worked each one.

You'd be surprised at how often the posted price is up for negotiation. I guess it's that we've been trained well as consumers to not ask for a break on price.

Re:Not allowed to only buy on sale???

You don't even have to wait for the sale. I've grown the habit of always asking for 10 or 15 percent off any item over US$100.

If you're shy, try asking if the item will be on sale soon. You will be offered a sale price.

What the hell is this "No Karma Bonus" - can I get an extra 15% on that or, can I just take the cash equivalent?

it's true

Normal costomers like my mom are alright. I mean she thinks, "oh, I need a TV" so she goes to BestBuy or Costco or whatever, finds one that looks pretty, and buys it. Big profits for the store.

If I need a TV, I wait a few weeks until I find a good deal on dealsea or FatWallet. Then I price match to someplace with massive coupon discounts, then I try to even pricematch the rebate. Then if they try to get me to pay for shipping I bitch about it and get that charge taken off. The stores make nothing.

If I was running a business, I wouldn't want people like me as customers. I would want people like my mom. It's just plain business sense.

Re:it's true

If I was running a business, I wouldn't want people like me as customers. I would want people like my mom. It's just plain business sense.

Get rid of you and your mom just might decide to shop elsewhere as well. Get rid of you and your mom and they might just end up with noone.

The idea is to attract cusotomers. You'll like some better than others, but it's better than having none.

KFG

Re: franchise - There's a reason it works...

I eat at McDonald's BK, KFC, Wendy's for a reason - I know what I'm getting, and no hassles.

My old man was a cheapskate, but he grew up in Europe without a lot of money. I was with him one trip when he pulled up to the Texaco in his Jaguar and bought $1 worth of gas. (OK, that was 2 gallons in those days, but still...) That would keep him going until the Esso where he could use his Esso Credit Card. Oh, and he got a fantastic deal on the Jaguar...

I don't have that kind of brass, or I'd be the "you're fired" customer. If I go to Joe's Eats, I don't know what a burger costs til I walk in the door and read the menu, and I don't know how good it is until it arrives. If I was brassy, I could then reject it and walk out without paying , but it's so much simpler at the big franchises. Plus, sometimes (often) my wife and I will split a single meal; I feel imposing to do that in a small private business (lack of "brass"), but McDonald's couldn't care less if you order nothing but a small coffee and a cup of water.

People will agree that getting rebates on returned merchandise is theft, but I don't think BB will win customers by telling them not to take advantage of sales. I think they'll win more friends with a "let's get simple" approach. Also, here in Canada, eh?, you pay sales tax on the price before rebate - no rebate on taxes - 14% or more! Hmm... I wonder if they claim GST (VAT) back on that rebate? Rebates are a practice I tolerate because I have no choice - and usually take months for the cheque to arrive - and oh yeah, the bank will charge you a service fee to deposit - another 50-cent insult...

The rebate is a gimmick that (a) allows them to advertise a lower than true price - exaggerrated low price gets you in the door so the salesman can work his magic... - and (b) puts some limit on the quantity you buy (If like many box stores, the small retailer says "Their retail is lower than my wholesale!". The Grocery chains enforce limits with their "club" cards, but food is a whole different class of retail.

Those stupid warranty programs are a rip. When Sears first tried selling me one years ago for my fridge, my response was "are you suggesting you expect this product to fail??" When we bought coverage for our car tires from the dealer, and had to claim while away from home, it was almost as more trouble than it was worth. "Sorry, that warranty is through the dealer 1500 miles away, talk to them..." Had to buy a used tire as a spare and ask the dealer later for reimbursement of extra expense. Good thing they liked us...

BTW, notice that the world's biggest, most successful retailer is the one that offers NO gimmicks or sseasonal sales or other crap? Just "everyday, low prices". OK, so they're not always, but for all the (many) complaints thrown at Wal-Mart, the rarest are "I just bought it and then it went on sale", "I found it MUCH cheaper at another store", and "they tried to sell me an extended warranty".

Contemptible Customers

How dare they pay Best Buy money in order to obtain products they seek to purchase.

In all seriousness, comments like these tell me I should be taking my business elsewhere. Not that I didn't already know ths, but it just reaffirms it. "Firing Customers" is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've heard today. And that's saying something. It goes against the whole idea behind a business; that is, to get customers and meet their needs while making a tidy profit. (Perhaps they believe their profit isn't quite tidy enough with people who use rebates and buy sale items.)

Re:Contemptible Customers

Actually the CEO of Best Buy Refused his last bonus offering and had it dispersed among lower ranking employees

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/stories/2004 /05/17/daily12.html [bizjournals.com]

Beware ignorance.

Re:Contemptible Customers

"Firing Customers" is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've heard today.

No, in certain unusual situations, it's the best thing you can do. (And it's a term I've heard for many, many years.) I worked in a graphics/print shop for a while, and some customers would drive us nuts, and lose us money over the stuff they did. ie. bring in questionable originals for copying, choose the cheapest photocopy option available, then return a 10,000-sheet job because there was a speck in the copies. Or, in a low-end design job, argue over nickle and dime issues for hours, eating up the designer's time that should have been spent on better-paying work.

A few times, we gave them the phone number for a competitor, and told them not to come back.

In the service industry, the customer who is paying the least, will invariably demand the greatest amount of service and attention. Big dollar-customers know what they want, know the value of what they are purchasing, and trust you to do it properly. I imagine there are similarities in the retail industry.

Re:Contemptible Customers

In the service industry, the customer who is paying the least, will invariably demand the greatest amount of service and attention. Big dollar-customers know what they want, know the value of what they are purchasing, and trust you to do it properly. I imagine there are similarities in the retail industry.


I'll take that one step further...

As a frequent purchaser of services, I make an effort to not piss the provider of said services off. Then, when I really *DO* need them to jump through some hoops for me, they're generally happy to return the favor.

(OT) After working in retail ...

I have to agree that the customer is almost never right. 99% of the people who complain - and by complain, I mean whine like a 2 year old - are not right, and deserve to be beaten with a hose. the only customer that is right, is the customer that is quite and just pays.

My case in point:

"This sign says 2 confections for 2 dollars!"

"It says 2 HERSHEY candies for 2 dollars."

"So?"

"Gobstoppers and popcorn don't count, and "almost" only counts in horse-shoes."

And then the customer will whine, and whine, and whine, and whine, and whine. My god, I've never heard so many adult-aged persons whine so much.

It's always something retarded they whine about too: they misunderstood the advertisement and want the deal anyway (yeah, right), or they know somone who used to work here and wants an employee discount, or they have a coupon ... that expired two years ago.

No, I don't need anger managment. I need a shotgun and some whiskey.

Re:(OT) After working in retail ...

As a person who has (thankfully no longer) worked retail, I can tell you that this very often doesn't work. If it's clear that you're going to be an ass just to get your way, a lot of managers will fight back.

What's funny is when someone would go "Oh yeah, I'll go over to store-in-next-city and they'll return it". So I call the closest few branches of our store and say "Hey, this guy blew up his radio and want's a refund, don't give it to him", and they don't.

Being a prick isn't always the best route.

I've found the best route is to be as understanding as possible w/the clerk and they will often help you out. For example, I had a cell phone die, and they wanted to repair instead of replace it. I calmly talked to the repair manager "Look, I know about your policy. I've been in your position and I know what a pain in the ass this is... thing is, I gotta business trip tomorrow, and I REALLY need it, " etc. etc. She was like "ok, I understand" and helped me out.

I made sure to thank her again the next time I went to that store, and they got my business. When my burner needed service, they expedited it for me.

Oh, and Mods.... this fellow might be abrasive, but it's not a Troll, c'mon...

Best Buy

Home electronics resellers have a pretty spotty past - seems they expand exponentially, then raise their prices and reduce their service to customer-unfriendly levels, then they go bankrupt. It's a constant cycle caused by cutthroat competition and low margins.

Best Buy is just summiting the mountain and headed to the downhill side of the cycle. Profits are up. The problem is that i'm not going there anymore because the prices are pretty exorbitant. I'm sure others are getting the same impression.

They are following in the path of Crazy Eddie, The Wiz, Circuit City, and lots of smaller outfits.

Re:Best Buy

I used to to repairs. When VCR's were $600-$1200, they made sense to spend a couple hours fixing them. Replacing all the belts, repacing the head, and doing a full alignment took a couple hours. You go broke attempting that on sub $100 vcr's. Due to the falling price of consumer electronics and warranty payments, and the increase in skills needed, and additional special tools, jigs, service software, test equipment, etc, the profits are not there unless you do depot level repair on a single product line, such as TIVO's. No nonger can a small shop do repairs on boom boxes, tv's, video game consoles, camcorders, DVD's, CD's, car audio, and microwaves and pay the rent.

That is why it's shipped to headquarters, then gets panned out to the manufacture's depot. It's where the service tools, jigs, parts, and trained tech is for that item. So much is trade secret stuff nowdays, many items can't be repaired by the local shop.

I moved on to R&D. It pays the bills.

Hey, I buy mostly during sales...

...and I don't think I like to be bundled in with people attempting fraud. I'm not high maintenance but I can spot a deal. Either you're selling something or your not. Don't start trying to second-guess what I might buy next. Maybe I'm taking advantage of a cheap offer to find out how good your service is...

Makes sense to me...

I run a small business, and sometimes I refuse to take on a client because I can tell they're going to be more trouble than they're worth. Why would I want to bother with someone who's going to constantly bitch about prices, try to wheel and deal me, and make me work twice as hard as the average customer? I don't need the money that bad.

It's probably the same thing for Best Buy. Why would they want to bother with people they know are going to take up their customer service reps' time, which costs money, and thereby result in no profit for Best Buy? There is no "right" to shop at Best Buy. There's probably a "we reserve the right to refuse service to any customer at any time" notice somewhere near the entrance to the store. Best Buy is simply choosing to exercise that right.

Re:Makes sense to me...

No, those are two very different situations.

You negotiate and decide on a per job basis. In retail there is no such thing; the prices are set and you are welcome to buy the items (in general). If the store can't really sell at those prices and expects you to throw away that rebate slip, then they are lying to you about their prices.

At least you have the decency to admit "No, I can't take this job." A better analogy is you taking that "trouble job" and then screwing everyone over later.

After reading your story, I have an observation

" This reminds me of a funny story."
That statement is only half right.
heh

Actually, I believe we have entered an era where PSP arn't as bad of a deal as they used to. In the race to get items for the lowest price as possible, manufacturing is cutting back to the point where stuff doesn't last as long as it used to.
I bought a cheap DVD player recently, and I bought the 'extended warrenty' for 4 years. Cost me 9 bucks. The DVD playes cost me 50. So for 59 bucks, I am gaurenteed to to have a DVD player for 4 years. If this POS dvd player doesn't crap out at least once, I will be surprised.

I mean, buy super cheap, get the extended warentee for a few bucks, and then when it breaks, you gte a new one, which will i all likly hood be an upgrade from the one you bought, because that one won't be sold anymore.

Shopping is a battlefield

There is nothing to be unexpected in this type of development - shops, like people, will attempt to optimise their habits to maximise their gain. The only question is what should the result be in the escalating arms race from the shoppers' perspective?

My suggestion is shopping clubs.

Get together a group of good consumers, mums on the school run is a prime recruiting ground. Organise until the number of participants is significant; and issue a membership card.

Then visit the shops.

Tell them that the group will promise to use a particular store for a particular type of shopping in exchange for a discount off all elements in store on production of the membership card. Organise an auction process for a type of shopping for an entire quarter and get the shops to bid against each other.

Providing the manager sees the take goes up for those stores in that quarter, everyone wins.

That way you can exercise the power of the mass market in the same way the shops use their marketing size to drive down supplier costs - the enticement of the large numbers with the threat of losing those numbers if they don't play ball.

In fact, since one thing Slashdot does have is size, that model would work well for Slashdot membership and computer goods...

Or do what we do in western Canada...

Start a Co-op & own the store.

Two sided issue

Side 1 - people suck - have you ever read any of these "deal forums" (Fat Wallet [fatwallet.com] and AT Hot Deals [anandtech.com] are two I read from time to time. Jesus fucking christ these people would walk a mile through the desert barefoot while eating salted peanuts for a fucking $10 rebate. Sometimes the "sequence of events" required to get these deals is more fucking work than just well, working and BUYING it for regular price, pricematch here, rebate there, obscure coupon code over there, print someone's reciept from some other store in some other state, and you might get a $79 item for $64 or something equally lame. I get a chuckle at the enormous lengths people will go to to save a couple bucks.

Side 2 - Best Buy sucks [bestbuysux.org] - reading this site is like a traffic accident complete with ripped off limbs, you can't stop looking but you know you should. The damn near criminal "support policies" they push and push and push on you, and the "piggyback" magazine subscriptions make me want to do things that would get me on the news. I'm currently getting bills from Entertainment Weekly because when checking out at BB a few months ago I let them "send me 4 free issues" just to get them to shut the FUCK up. Now they want me to pay for the stupid magazine like I give two drops of spit about EW (ew is right).

I don't know who to root for in this fight... Best Buy or the "demon customers" socking it to them. Goddamn I hate rebates, I go out of my way to avoid deals involving rebates because they just PISS ME OFF so bad.

Really I'm not ranting...

Classic example of leveraging facelessness...

I see that Royal Bank of Canada sends wealthier customers to the head of the phone queue, while making ones with smaller accounts wait and wait. This is a classic example of abusing the facelessness of phone transactions, leveraging it to their advantage. Could you imagine customers putting up with this kind of stuff in a face-to-face setting? You walk into the bank, and they tell you to go to the "poor people" line? Or say you go into a department store, only to be told that you will have to let other customers cut in front of you, because they are buying more expensive items? That sounds almost like it should be illegal. But hey, what do you expect for a gigantic, faceless corporation?

Re:Classic example of leveraging facelessness...

Could you imagine customers putting up with this kind of stuff in a face-to-face setting?

You mean like the first class only lines at the airport, or the the preferred customer lines at the car rental, cruise, and hotel counters?

But you piqued a pet peeve - the notion that the person standing in front of you is less important than someone calling on the phone. The LAST time this happened to me (I just walk away now) was at a motorcyle dealer parts counter. There were a half dozen of us who had waited for over twenty minutes while the counter staff took call after call. Finally I turned to the wall phone (this was before cell phones), and called the dealership number and asked to be forwarded to parts. At this point a couple of guys in front of me clued into what I was doing and moved in front of me so the staff couldn't hear/see me. Sure enough, they took the call, checked the part, and told me it would be ready when I got there. I turned around, waved the phone at them, and bought my parts. Then raised hell until I got a manager, raised hell with HIM, and left with my parts while the rest of the customers continued to revile them. Priceless (tm)!

KeS

no they didn't

RTFA.

Some other guy from another retailer with a mere 21 stores in the same market is talking about 'firing customers'. The guy from best buy went out of his way to say that they won't give up on 'problem' customers.

C'mon people, follow the narrative.

Is this news to anyone?

I worked as a Tech at Blue&Yellow Hell a few years back, and I ended up quitting after getting into it with the weasly little sales manager over screwing over the customers with that ripoff service plan.

Hell, if you think the company is customer-hostile OVERTLY, you should see the kind of crap they tell the employees at those micky-mouse-micromanagement "Huddles" every morning before opening.

Be smart about bad customers.

I don't have any sympathy for bad retailers who offer ridiculous deals to customers, with profit margins based on the fact that customers will not exercise options (eg, rebates) or will buy accessories to supplement the original sale.

They deserve what they get.

On the other hand, I did run an ISP, so I know what it's like when you give a customer an unlimited account, based on a pool of bandwidth, only to discover they are a leech, and bring down the quality of service for all customers.

Still, they purchased the service legitimately, so I wasn't going to ban them...

So I sent them 3-month gift certificates from a competing ISP :).... And *all* my problem customers left me, taking up the offer.

My competitor wasn't too happy when he found out years later, but I was left with a pool of good customers, and those customers I didn't want respected me also, and often recommended me to their friends, many of whom weren't leeches.

Overall, I didn't abuse the customer rights, and I still managed to offer a premium service at a reasonable price. And at better profit margins than my competitors. Not once did I have to make excuses like fair-use policies do.

The moral of this tale? Treat your customers with respect and they'll respect you in return.

GrpA

Re:Be smart about bad customers.

"On the other hand, I did run an ISP, so I know what it's like when you give a customer an unlimited account, based on a pool of bandwidth, only to discover they are a leech, and bring down the quality of service for all customers. "

you offer unlimited, and they us eit, they are not leeching, they are using what they paid for, the ISP is the one who screwed up. Don't give me expected usage, or worse, avaerage use as an excuse. The ISP said, here take all you want, so they did.
No different then going to an allyou can eat buffet, and then eating all you can eat.

Best Buy Worst For Rebate Items

Now, mailing in a rebate then returning an item is unethical on the customer's part (didn't think it was possible since most require original UPC).

However, it's been my experience that BB more often then occasionally won't have a rebate item on stock/shelves right when the store opens on the first day of the rebate sale. 3 cases where I've tried to get a rebate item (modem, HD, monitor) I'd get there and be the first few when the doors open only to find the item NOT on the shelf. Ask a salesperson and they'll say there's no more in stock. When questioned about the promotion, it's the usual B.S. "The item has been on sale for the past week, so we ran out".

I see rebate sales going out of popularity soon. I won't dare touch BB, and once great-for-quick-rebates-turnaounds OfficeMax has gone down the crapper recently for denying legitimate rebate submissions. The second "denied" rebate from OM, I really let the guy on the other end have it on the phone. (got approved after "resubmitting") Since that day, OM's made it on my shitlist along with BB. My sanity and karma isn't worth it. There's only so much crap people in general will take, and more will start to ignore them and not care as word-of-mouth spreads. Perhaps that's the goal of some retailers...

Read The Articles You Submit

I think people should read the articles they submit. Best Buy did NOT say they fired customers. Also, in my experience, Best Buy has been a better retailer than Wal Mart, Circuit City, Target and the like. I've received great service and pricing there and 100% satisfaction when I needed to return a dud digital camera.

The customer isn't always right

SEARS dropped the "customer is always right" motto a long time ago and replaced it with "The customer isn't always right, but they are never wrong".

Lets face it, if you haven't worked retail then you simply don't know what hell is. Customers are often devoid of communication skills, arrogant, flat out dumb or in such a god damn hurry that they just don't care about anyone or anything else. We've become a consumer culture where everyone says "gimme!" with complete disregard. I'm not even gonna get into the number of thefts frauds etc. Just enter a Fry's Electronics some time and try to find an item on the shelf that doesn't have a return label already on it.

People suck most of the time, especially during the holidays. Sales or no sales everyone is pinching pennies and it's usually the rich pricks pinching them hardest and giving you a hard time for no reason other than to be a complete prick.

What I find ironic is that Xmas is the worst time for all of this. A time supposedly for giving, for your fellow man, love, compassion etc etc which when put into perspective is complete hypocrisy from what it really is. Greed, parking lot arguments, massive crowds, bad tempers, increased suicide rates, fraud. I could go on and on. The fact is, people suck whether they are shoppers or the assholes who own the store.

I'm no fan of Best Buy, I go only once in a rare while. But I don't see them as evil or wrong in this. You and I can decide not to patron them, they however have no fucking clue we are coming or what we'll do when we get there. As far as I am concerned they have the right to refuse service to anyone they like.

I will never shop Best Buy, and here is why...

Best Buy is the most horrible place to buy anything, all they care about is the sale. I once went there to purchase some french tutor application (this is when windows 2000 first came out). On the box it said it was compatible with windows 98/NT. Since the app was made before 2000 came out, I figured NT and 2000 would be compatible, but just to make sure I asked a sales associate. He said anything made for NT would run on 2000. I purchased it, it did not work on 2000 (I got a dll error when running the exe file), and I went to return it. They would not return it, and threatened me that I was a pirate or thief or something really bad. After asking to speak to a manager, two big guys in yellow shirts came up to me and told me they would hold me for the police if I continued to try and return the product. One of the computer tech's who was listening in started laughing at me, and yelled out "NT is not 2000, it's on the box, can't you read". I guess nobody heard a word I was saying. Since then I have never purchased anything from Best Buy. Oh, and a friend of mine got screwed there too. He purchased one of those extended warrenties on a HP computer. The computer kept freezing up (it was running windows ME). He went to get it fixed, and they told him it would be 3 days. It took two weeks to get it back, and the computer was not fixed. When he went back to ask for an exchange, they told him the hardware was fine and he was on his own. So much for the extended warrenty. I knew it was windows ME doing it, but what could he have done? Best buy did not stand behind their product or their own in-house wareenty.

From the article: Anderson said Best Buy was tightening its rebate policies in the case of customers who abuse the privilege, but declined to say what else his company was doing to discourage its most costly customers.

There is a simple way to stop mail in rebate fraud. Give the rebate when the sale is made and record it on the reciept. But computer stores will never do this because of how many people forget to mail in the rebate in time. I for one hate mail in rebates, and think it is deceptive for stores to list the price of a product as the price after the rebate (with the rebate listed in small unreadable font). On second thought, I wonder if what he really means is how to screw people from sending in the rebate, like forcing them to print out their own rebates from some website or shortening the time window.

Now while Circuit City is no better with the rebates, at least there they really try and help you with what you buy. I purchased a laptop from them, saw 2 weeks later it was $100 less at another store (on-sale), and went to get the price match. The manager gave me the money plus 10% of the differance with no problems. She told me she was happy I was a customer and looked forward to servicing my needs again. That was good service.

screw 'em if they can't take a joke

Although from TFA quotes like this made ME laugh:

"That would be directly equivalent to somebody going to an ATM and getting money out without putting any in," Brad Anderson, Best Buy's chief executive, said in a recent interview. "Those customers, they're smart, and they're costing us money."

That's the price you pay for making us customers jump through more hoops than a fucking circus poodle to get our product at the advertised price. Honestly, most of the time when I send rebates back to the company I totally expect to never see my check in the mail. It's such an arduous process now that I don't even bother most of the time. Look, a 50-pk of CD-Rs for $3.99! Oh wait, it's actually $50.99 + tax, but after a measly $1 instant rebate and a shitload of 6-12 week waiting periods, I MIGHT get the advertised price. Or, more likely, I might get hosed and never get those rebate checks in the mail...leaving me paying about a buck a CD.

Honestly if someone takes the time to do a bit of research and sift through the ads in order to get free shit from promotional deals from companies like BestBuy that have horseshit customer service to begin with (anyone else remember the Native American dude arrested for trying to get his instant rebate on his pre-ordered NVidia card a while back?), then more power to 'em. Or maybe I'm just bitter because I've gotten screwed on so many of these rebate deals in the past.

My Usual Response

Clerk: "Have you considered our extended warranty"?
Me: "Do you mean to tell me your products are so inferior that you can't guarantee them past 60-90 days? What the hell am I buying here"??? (Then I walk out)

My experience...

I worked at a very small specialized retailer (running store) for about three years.

We had our normal "problem customers". People who would buy a pair of shoes and then bring them back after several long runs on the shoes and try to exchange them. People that would complain about our prices, and so on.

The fact that the owner of the store was there most times to make the final decision, what helped more than anything was having firm, clear-cut policies on things.

If you never took back shoes that had obviously been run in, then the person who was always trying to bring them back worn was going to have a problem. And, I admit, sometimes that meant calling the customer a liar, sometimes to their face.

The customer was always free to go elsewhere. There were even times when I would give directions to another store.

We would never refuse to sell someone a pair of shoes, and we would never treat a customer any differently than any other person off the street. If someone came in trying to return his tenth pair of shoes, I could objectively look at him (and the shoes) the same way as someone who was coming back for the first time to return something. Had the shoe been obviously worn outside? Would I feel comfortable selling this shoe *as new* to another customer? Would I feel comfortable buying this shoe myself, as new?

If the shoe passed those tests, I would take the shoes back, tenth pair coming back or first.

And I will add something on about the rebates - others posting are correct. If you have problems with rebates, *get rid of them*. No one likes them except the retailer, and if the retailer is having problems with them, then no one will be stopping them from getting rid of them.

Now, I also see a difference between a retailer rebate and a manufacturer's rebate. I dislike them both, but the retailer rebate is the worst.

SprintPCS, for example, is making a big deal about this new promotion for existing customers. If you have been a customer for over 18 months, you can get a new phone.

Fine print: SprintPCS will send you a rebate check for up to $150 if you buy the phone, even if you buy is straight from Sprint! So I give SprintPCS my money, and then I have to prove to them I gave them my money, and then 6-8 weeks later they will return *my* money to me?

Insane! Just give me the stupid phone up front!

The the hell is wrong with the US?

I'm an Australian and I went on a trip to the US not so long ago for only a week on a business trip.

My first impressions of service in the US (other than the really fancy joints, and the customers on the business trip) was pretty appalling. People talk to you as if you, the customer, are a problem that has to go away.

Let's see... well apart from certain airline stewardess being a bit careless about which passengers they make fun of about on a flight, to the endless cancellations from hotel to hotel and at short notice.... to the rude replies when you ask a simple question:

"Excuse me, can you show me where the bathroom is?"
"Huh? YOU WANNA KNOW WHERE THE BATHROOM IS? WELL! IT'S STRAIGHT DOWN THADDAWAY!"
Oh yes... the image of the bored-out-of-her-mind angry waitress I saw in the movies actually existed!
Then some woman decided she'd check my ID for beer (I'm creeping up on 30 if you don't mind. But hey, nice to feel under 21 again), in a manner which made me feel like I did something wrong.

The taxi driver tried to rip me off, which reminded me of a similar experience I had in a third world country (Well the driver WAS from a third world country), but I'm not sure that this is the kind of experience vistors to the US should be getting. Made more sense to fork out for a limo.

I only tipped for good service (and believe me, it wasn't that often!).

I dunno, but maybe this talk down to the customer thing is just the way of life over there. Maybe you guys are all as tough as nuts and don't get easily offended - but the ordeals were a bit uneccessary. Everybody seems to be competing to be the alpha-male... for some reason.
Makes the RIAA spats against customers seem a little more realistic in my mind.

Oh yeah... and what the hell is it with you guys and Atkins anyway?

Re:The the hell is wrong with the US?

Its a cultural thing, as an American I really never noticed the way customers are treated in the states until I travelled abroad.
People in the states all feel they are equal and won't let themselves feel subservant. Its that sense that, "yes I'm a waitress, I'll get your food, but you're not better than me." Except, like you said, fancy places, where people will cater to you since you will pay the extra it takes. That gets combined with the sense that the job is what counts mentality, your plane ticket just entitles you to get from point A to point B, whether the stewardesses like you or not doesn't matter.
I don't think your experiences are uncommon, Americans are used to and expect that kind of treatment. The perception from American customers is basically "I don't care how nice you are to me, as long as the food doesn't suck." [digitalcity.com] There is a level of service expected, but its below what I've experienced in foreign countries.
I can understand how foreigners are shocked by customer service in the US. On the flip side, many Americans feel uneasy and even guilty at the extra level of service they get in foreign countries. When I travel I feel bad that I'm not supposed to tip the bellhop, or the waiter in some countries no matter how good the service.
Just write off your experience to cultural differences
As for taxi drivers, they will rip you off in any country, I think its part of the test to get their license.
The Atkins craze is because everybody has a friend who dated this person who knew somebody who lost 50lbs on the diet.

Re:The the hell is wrong with the US?

Yeah whatever. I'm Canadian, and I'm always floored by the coldness of service in the US. It differs from region to region within the states, but it's always there. It feels like you all hate everything, including the customers and yourself. Mind you this is a generalization, but that's the overall trend. If you can't see it it's probably because you are used to it.

rebates

Rebates are a tax on laziness created by greedy, unethical corporations. I refuse to buy any product that has an advertised price that is based on a rebate. What a bunch of crap.

As far as Best Buy, it's to high tech what McDonald's is to cuisine. I've never met anyone in that store that couldn't be more intellectually-challenged by delivering pizza. The store is crap; the selection is crap; the layout is crap, and nobody in the place has a clue.

Watch out! I just rtfm

This is not an article about Best Buy practices. Its about how companies are coping with "Demon" customers. We have a "demon" customer that is slamming our tech support with questions unrelated to her service, but they will argue about the tie in and we need to keep our relationship. Its tough when people are trying to exploit your weaknessess. When the time it takes to patch the holes is time taken away from serving those who deserve it.

*BAD* idea

BAD. Just BAD. Ugh. My old boss used to say, "The customer isn't always right -- but they are always a customer."

My gosh -- talking about "demon customers" is just terribly bad PR. I've never shopped at a Best Buy, and after reading that, I don't think I ever will. I don't care if they think I'm the angel fucking Gabriel of a customer, if they're calling customers "demons" I don't want to deal with them.

It's one thing to scam the store out of money, for example buying sale items and returning for full price. It's another thing *entirely* to "take up too much of a salesperson's time." As defined by who? Some marketroid from Upper Management? I've often asked salespeople questions just because I was needed the information to make an informed purchasing decision, and eventually made an informed decision not to buy the product. Now, *I* don't think I was taking up too much of their time, but...

Or only buying at sales. Come on, think like a (skinflint) customer, especially if said customer isn't from the area and needs to drive a ways to get to your store -- gee, store X is holding a storewide sale again, I better check that out. You hold the sale, you deal with the skinflints. If the skinflints are a problem, hold fewer sales, don't just turn them away! You have to deal with the fact that not all of your customers are going to be consumerist sheep.

C'mon, people, the employees are there (or *should* be there) to help customers, and if they do a decent job the company should make money. If you need to resort to "firing" customers to make money, the customers may not be your problem.

I'm afraid this will fail

From the article:

Selden, a consultant who works for Best Buy, co-wrote "Angel Customers & Demon Customers." In his book, he said that while retailers "probably can't hire a bouncer to stand at the door and identify the value destroyer," they're not powerless.

Now, I'm afraid this will fail. The problem is that he doesn't realize that Angel customers are also demon customers, except with a soul. Now, it is true that they'll often help the Buffy customers stick it to the other demon customers, but that's because they're tormented by the past, and don't want to grab only the bargains anymore. But definitely, putting a bouncer before the store hellmouth isn't going to even slow down the demon customers. They'll make mince meat out of him. No, retailers should realize that they are really powerless, and let the professional slayer customers clean up the store.

Best Buy is NOT firing customers

From the article:
Best Buy executive vice president Philip Schoonover said the idea of "firing" some customers is one place where Best Buy disagrees with Selden. The company will try to find ways to make money-losing customers profitable, he said.

A Problem with Society

The problem is not necessarily with the company, but with society in general.

Who of us has not heard the phrase "the customer is always right". And I'm not just talking from a retailers point of view; I'm referring to parents, friends, newspapers, television, etc. What these sources fail to qualify is that this phrase has power only to the end of the customers desires. And this is what retail is supposed to be for; the customer knows what they want, and the retailer provides the product that meets the customers needs. Everybody wins! But society has bred a noticeable few retailers that care only about themselves, producing a noticeable number of customers who are "always right" on every topic, thus breeding a vicious cycle.

Retailers, stop trying to deceive your customers, you can trust them to buy your product if you give them what they need!

Customers, stop assuming that you you can get a deal just by demanding it, kicking and screaming. We all don't get a commission, and we all can't lower your price by X%!

Alternatively, do some research yourself. Go into the store knowing what you want to buy. Talk to the sales person, negotiate price, and if its going nowhere, leave. Don't walk in assuming you can get a 25% discount on whatever you like, especially when markups on most consumer electronics run below 10%!

Best Quote

Brad Anderson, Best Buy's chief executive: "Those customers, they're smart, and they're costing us money."

Customer is not always right

Maybe in the world of mindless retail, "the customer is always right" but this is absolutely NOT the case in other industries. As a developer and technology consultant, one of the most significant responsibilities I have is translating the customer's needs into something real and functional. In almost every case this involves at some point, me telling the customer what he wants may not be practical, economical, or even viable.

I vehemently believe that behind EVERY botched tech job, there was at least one greedy, obsequious player that was too afraid of telling the customer he is WRONG.

A few years back my company turned down a job for one of Stephen Spielburg's companies because what they wanted to do was ridiculous. We knew from the beginning that a bunch of detached executives had an idea for a net-based solution that would backfire on them, and we choose to not be the sacrificial lamb when the whole thing imploded. I lost some potential money in that deal, but I'm certain I would have been much worse off trying to patch the fatally flawed system they suggested we develop. Not a month goes by where I don't have to have one of these types of conversations with customers who want the earth, sun, moon and Jesus Christ piled on top of a rich creme filling that will rot in a few months time.

In the area of technology and application development, it's almost imperative for the customer to defer to the wisdom and superior working experience of the IT professional.

Back to the world of retail, how many of us have been in a store and saw some mindless consumer drool over a product that we knew was crap. Every day the goofballs in places like Best Buy have to nod and accommodate these people, even when, among the few employees that have a clue, are fully-aware the customer might as well toss their money down a drain.

Life is too short to go through that. I am so thankful I'm in a position where I have clients who respect the wisdom of my recommendations. If you're not there, you might want to strive to get there and not be a slave to the all the goofy, destructive, superficial mantras corporate america tries to brainwash consumers with.

Twice

Thats the number of times I've been in a Best Buy. I've never made a purchase there. The sales people don't know their products. They will annoy you until you leave. The prices are within $5 of Circuit City.
Guess where I buy TV's and stereo equipment?

Best Buy is The Demon

I've been spending my hard earned dollar at Best Buy for years, but no more. I (foolishly) purchased one of their "extended warranty" plans for an after-market car stereo.

I realize that what I've been through might be minor, but when I see crap about the customer not being right, it makes my blood boil. The reason is simple: companies like Best Buy take "the customer is always right? not anymore" to an extreme - where the customer becomes some kind of pinyata for them to beat on until all the coins drop from your pockets; where they try to make the customer feel like the bad guy for taking them up on sales, warranties, etc.

Here's a short version of the story:

Under this plan, I tried taking the stereo back because it wasn't functioning properly. A week and a half later, they called and said it was fixed. I took the time to reinstall it, only to find that not only wasn't it fixed, but that their fix had caused a new and unrelated problem with the unit. I took it back to the store, where they called a few days later saying it was fixed. The initials on the repair slip indicated it was the same tech, who said nothing was wrong with the unit. Not the problem I originally had it in for, or the new problem. The thing was fine according to this hack.

I took it back a third time being very specific that I did not want this same tech touching it. This time they wanted two pieces of wiring - the harness and the antenna adapter, which cost me about 30$. No problem. I brought all three items to the store, and they sent them all out. A few days later I got a call saying that the unit had been "junked" - they were going to just replace it.

Well, this unit isn't available any longer. No problem, I'll choose a comparable unit close to the price I paid originally. I also asked if they were going to replace, under the warranty, the two pieces of wiring they'd taken. Nope. This is where it starts to get ugly.

The CS rep I'm dealing with at the store has disappeared and returned, and decided on a model he believes is equivalent to what I had. It is priced at about 50$ less than what I paid and lacked several features of my old unit. If I wanted anything else, I would have to pay the difference from the price of this "comparable" unit. No, I can't just take a store credit and be done with it, thats not how it works, he tells me. "Well feature A doesn't seem to be on this model, I really liked that about my old model. Don't you think thats important?" I ask the CS rep. No, he tells me flatly. At this point, I'm getting pretty pissed. No!? WTF?

Back to the wiring stuff. They took the wiring from me, but they're not going to replace it. The CS rep says he'll call the repair people and have it sent to me - it'll be 7-10 days before I get it in the mail. I want to know why it wasn't already on its way, and how I'm supposed to install my "comparable" unit without it. Best Buy repair people knew they had junked the unit and that they weren't going to give me new wiring. The CS rep responds by saying he just called and it is being shipped. I try to explain to him that he's totally missing my point, but he can't hear me. They took something that they're not going to replace - therefore the items belong to ME. My property. Why don't I have them already? Why does it take you calling to get MY stuff back? Why won't you just give me new ones and be done with it?

At this point, he says something to the effect of "well, you're obviously not listening to me, so you can go talk to my supervisor on the other side of the store."

I had to walk away because the attitude this rep was copping was starting to cause a scene (which maybe isn't such a bad thing), but I was about to do something that would have prompted security to haul me off. At this point, a supervisor SHOULD have made him/herself available - this was all going on right in front of the service desk.

I was (am) royally pissed. The guy was a complete prick, didn't give a ri

Re:Best Buy is The Demon

Under this plan, I tried taking the stereo back because it wasn't functioning properly.

The moral of this story: Always purchase electronics with a credit card. If the merchant won't take it back and immediately exchange it for a working version of the same product (no 2 weeks waiting for repair, I'm talking about immediate exchange right there in the store), call your credit card company and dispute the charge. Works every time. The fact of the matter is that the credit laws protect you because you do not have to pay for goods or services that you never received, or were defective. The credit card company can't bill you for them and will issue a chargeback which means the merchant won't get their money either.

Also, if a merchant gets too many chargebacks in a certain period of time, the credit card company will revoke their merchant account, leaving them unable to accept credit cards period.

This is also a highly effective bargaining tool if the customer service rep is giving you a hassle about returning the item. Just tell them you will dispute the charge with your CC company if they don't accept the return right this second. They will immediately cave, because they know they don't have a chance of winning that battle.

threats

I once worked in a department store in Australia. I sometimes performed the role of "door greeter", the person standing at the front door, the first point of contact for customers to ask directions etc. Part of this role was to immediately pick up the phone and contact security whenever one of a small number of "problem customers" walked into the store - known shoplifters, fradusters or problem customers who were rude or abusive towards staff.

On one occasion, such a person was in the store and started to argue and yell at the checkout staff, because she wanted prices from a sale that ended two weeks ago or something. When the manager arrived, this customer started to argue with him, and made one critical mistake:

Customer: "If you don't do what I want, I will never shop here again!" ...to which the manager replied "If you ever step foot in this store again, you will be asked to leave by our store security, or will be removed by the police if necessary."

Realising the error in her line of reasoning, the abusive customer simply turned around and left immediately.

my best buy horror story

I have NEVER found a store with such clueless employees. If they get screwed over, it's not the customers' fault IMO.

I purchased a DirecTV/Tivo system from BestBuy. I take it home and find out there's no card in the system. I can't make it work. The salesperson told me DirecTV would supply me with a card; DirecTV told me they wouldn't and I should get one from BestBuy. End result, I take the unit back to Best Buy and only then am I informed that they do have the cards, but they don't keep them in the boxes with the units. I tell them to piss off and I get a better deal doing business directly with DirecTV. I have NEVER found one thing in BestBuy that wasn't higher-priced than CompUSA, broken, incomplete or misleading. I'm glad this article came out, because for some perverse reason, Best Buy is on the way to CompUSA and I always stop there, but I'm now reminded that while I waste time poking my head in this store, I don't think I've ever gotten a better deal, or found less-clueless salespeople anywhere.

Can we all look forward to the time when these stores will be converted into Chuck-E-Cheeses? I could probably get superior tech support and an order of cheesy bread!

Sometimes data mining helps

I had a buddy who bought a printer at Best Buy. After he opens it at home, he realizes that the model number of the printer doesn't match that on the box. So he tries to exchange it.

At the store, the clerks look up up the printer and then they tell him they wouldn't let him exchange it. The printer he had had been discontinued for years and there was no way Best Buy could have sold it to him. Basically they tell him tough luck.

Now in Best Buy's defense it looks like he's trying to scam the store, but my buddy asks them two questions. 1) If they can look up the printer, can they not look up if the box had been returned previously. 2) They can certainly look up his purchase history and see that he was a good customer.

After some reluctance and some heated words, they find out that the box had been returned 2 months before my buddy bought it. My buddy had bought thousands of dollars of appliances, electronics, movies, etc with almost no returns.

In my buddy's case they let him exchange the printer, but wouldn't had they not had the data and if he hadn't been so persistent.

Yes and no

In a lot of ways I think Best Buy is a pain in the butt. Let's start with rebates.

But at the same time, anyone who says "the customer is always right" has never worked retail. Contrary to popular belief, at least 90 percent of the time the customer is full of shit. In the past, businesses only let them *think* they were right. Most businesses had to take that line, because they had a limited number of customers in a given location, and they wanted to make everyone happy. Thanks to an era of retailers on every street corner and nationwide sales via the internet, those days are over. I will admit that there are a lot of instances where businesses are very guilty of poor practices and poor customer support. But there are just as many instances, if not more, where the "customer" should be told to go shove his head up his ass and shuffle it on out the door.

Lets start with customers who regularly come in to a store, tie up a sales person asking endless questions, then go home and buy the item on the internet from a mailorder business. And before anyone fires up a reply saying "well then, the store should lower its prices", no brick-and-mortar retailer will ever be able to match the price of a mail-order only business, and you are being totally unrealistic (and very ignorant of business) expecting them to do so.

Best Buy and other CE Companies and cellphones

I KNOW why they use rebates. I STILL think that they just need to simplify somethings by just OFFERING IT AT A LOWER PRICE. I was thinking if you reduce all the overhead on store specific rebates, then you may be able to charge everyone the lowest price in the first place.

I just want to post one HAPPY story in this thread:

This week I had had it with my iPaq. It started to get to be a pain in the butt to charge. Something was going bad in the sync connector you use to charge the device. I bought one of the final tap plans with it offered by Compusa that include things like ooops I dropped it and you walk in and they replace it deals. It's not what I would call a extended warantee, but assurance program that helps Joe Sixpack get more comfortable with new technology. ANYWAY, I took my reciept and iPaq in to CompUSA and they of course did not have the model I had (5555....has only been out a year and is already discontinued...not like Toshiba's who have a model they had just brought out 6 months ago and you already can't get it). Anyway, I had paid around 650 for the iPaq last summer(when it was first released). They only had about 4 or 5 models to choose from with Windows Mobile OS. One of these was the 4350. Only 2 or 3 things it does not have that the 5555 has. The manager felt bad they did not have a equal model so they gave me that one (which is just fine), a free new tap plan (one where I mail it in and they fix it or ship me a refurb if I drop it and kill it) and 100 dollar gift card. When they were ringing the replacement up, they also had a 50 dollar gift card rebate and I got that as well. The manager just really had to give me a replacement and nothing more and he gave me a deal I will probably never get again. It's things like this that make me want to go back to the store. Of course when you talk rebates though, CompUSA is definitely the KING of rebates. I have no problem with rebates, but here's the thing:

DO NOT ADVERTISE PRICE AFTER REBATES!

Cell phone companies are guilty of this as well. I won't say that I get suckered in, but people like my Mom do sometimes. My thing is....advertise the price I need to pay at the register. If you want to say there's a rebate on it in the ad, then do so, but don't make it like that's the price I am going to pay at the register. Also, if a customer ONLY buys during sales...that SHOULD tell you something. It should tell you your price is too damn high!

Best Buy, I have no problems with you keeping lists of customers who commit fraud, but please don't penalize me for waiting until you put something on sale.

Just another reason to go to Frys

They just opened a store up in Renton, worth the extra distance compared to Beast Buy in Tukwila.

Their salesmen are attentive, and the way they seem to have the departments set up is at least 10 salesmen at any given time. One salesman had to take off while I was perusing scanners, but that was understandable, since I was browsing for over 10 minutes.

Their checkout counters are incredibly fast and efficient as well. I'm sure in the cases of sales there may be more congestion, but on the last day of one sale (dual mode DVD-+R/W for $69, and 25 blank DVD-Rs for $17), I was in and out of the store within just 30 minutes (including drooling at their HD sets and drinking at the coffee bar).

Ahhh, the coffee bar. They have a decent coffee shop with *gasp* reasonable prices! Can you say root beer float with real vanilla ice cream for $2 and change? That alone makes the trip worth it.

Best Buy are scum -- Case in Point

At the end of 2002, I was delighted to find a pair of CDJ-1000 CD players on sale at bestbuy.com for the ungodly low price of $800 and change each. I bought two immediately. Then I received an email indicating that they were revoking the offer. That's not allowed under the law, so I called them up and offered to file for fraud with the FTC.

They treated me like shit, and refused to honor the price. I filed against them at the FTC (yeah, a lot of good that did me--ho hum). I also demanded that they not process the charge on my card.

Not only did they charge my credit card, they double-charged it to the tune of $4000! Consequently, I spent the week Christmas 2002 with my credit card maxed out for a pair of turntables that I wasn't getting.

Obviously, Best Buy should be shot dead on the spot and dragged through the streets like the scum-sucking frauds that they are.

Similar at Office Max

I (unfortunately) work at an Office Max, and we have some customers who habitually try to abuse the system. We have one person who buys a printer, then wants to return it just before the end of the return period. After, of course, using up ALL the ink. Needless to say we no longer accept returns from him. Another went through 5 Palm Pilots, in about 10 days. I'm not sure what she did to break them, but these are the only five allegedly "defective" Palms we had all year. It's hard to believe it was just bad luck. When she returned the fifth one we told her that we wouldn't take any more Palms back from her, she'd have to go through the manufacturer warranty if she bought another Palm from us and had problems.

Then of course there's the "vultures" who come in every Sunday (arriving about an hour before we open and banging and kicking the doors because we won't open early for them) and get everything that's "free after rebate". They'll get things like Hard Drives but don't even own a computer, they just plan to sell them. Thank God we stopped doing "free" stuff.

On the other hand, we are FORCED to try to sell protection plans (and lose hours if we don't sell enough) and pester people to buy extra stuff. It's one thing to offer a USB cable when they buy a 3-in-1, but we're supposed to do it if they just buy ink or paper also. That radio in our ear is "reminding" us all the things that could possibly be associated with whatever your buying. At my store, at least, we make some attempt to have only one sales droid pester any given customer, instead of all of us one after the other.

BTW, the best way to keep the sales droids away is to hold a cell phone to your ear and pretend to be having a conversation. It's far from guaranteed, but it will help. And mail in rebates are, IMO, just a way for the store to make interest off your money. That's why they take 3 to 4 months to send the check. Wait untill the specified product is sold out and you may get (if it's a manufacturer rebate, not a store rebate) the substitute item at the "after rebate" price at the register. I picked up a DVD +-RW for $60 cash that way (list was $199).

Almost bought at Best Buy once

I found this article and all the comments really interesting.

Last fall, I needed a new refrigerator and saw one in a Best Buy ad that was at a decent price and was really just what I was looking for. I like it pretty well and had made up my mind to buy it, but then the Best Buy sales staff entered. I didn't *even* get to the arguing about the extended warranty part before their general rudeness had so thoroughly alienated me that I told them "I changed my mind; your bad service and attitude just blew the sale for you" and walked out.

I then drove a few miles to Sears, where I found a fridge with all the same features, and free delivery (which made it the same price as the one at Best Buy), and the sales people were great.

Best Buy's staff is the best advertisement their competitors could wish for. That would have been my first time to buy at a Best Buy store, and now I will not set foot in one again. I wouldn't care if they were beating Fry's, Circuit City, and everyone else on the price of every item, I'd rather pay more somewhere else than buy from Best Buy.

former employee

I have learned many things being a former employee for bestbuy, hence why I am a former employee due to the fact that i despised so many of their practices.
For starters, the best buy in brentwood tennessee, i have known the managers there to throw customers out or not let them purchase very large items in home theater if they were not willing to get the service plan, and this was a manager. This stuff happened all the time if people refused to purchase accessories or more stuff all over the store.
Second, I started working in the computer department, wanting to kill a day and get paid for it, i sat down and read the whole computer department training manual. I found out a few weeks later that I was the only person in the history of that best buy to actually fully read one of the training manuals, most of the time they dont even read them. In the computer department i would walk by and hear some of the most outlandish claims thrown out by salesmen, and most of them confided in me that they didnt know the first thing about computers, they only knew prices, not what was best for the customer. Lastly are the service plans. Best buy used to have a policy fo judging sales people by their service plan sales but it had been cancelled a few months before i joined. I would offer the service plan to those people and items I thought it would actually be useful on, mainly emachines since if they broke they had a policy of not trying to fix it but just replacing it with whatever model was equal to the price that person purchased theirs at, a hell of a deal if your pc breaks every 6 months. I had been talked to many times for not hawking the service plans extremely hard, even if the person obviously did not want one.
One final item, which may not be unusual for a corporation of that size, but still pissed me off. One of my friends working there completely destroyed his back doing lifting for them. A few days after his accident while he was working he was fired, due to some lame excuse about paperwork which no one does. Of course the friend filed suit but was constantly followed by a private investigator to make sure he wasnt doing anything that could be used against him in court.
Anyway, thats just my 2 cents from a former employee, I still purchase things there but usually only on sales.

You Gotta Laugh!

For the last ten years, the big watch-word in IT was CRM - "Customer Relationship Management" - the idea that you had to really treat the customer right and constantly get in the customer's face with how wonderful a company you were so they'd all want to do business with you since you were such a great friendly place.

I knew it was a fucking joke the minute I read about it - because I KNOW management - and management's idea of CRM is dropping spyware on your computer so they can bombard you with crap advertising for products that don't work and nobody wants - and treating their employees - those people who are the front-line to their customers - like dirt.

"CRM" is a joke concept given the nature of business in this country (for that matter, in most of the world.)

The Corporation is NOT your friend any more than the State is.

My Best Buy Horror Story - Still Pending..

Ok, since this is a Best Buy Bashfest, I'll spill my story (the short version).

Went into BB the day after Thanksgiving '03 to buy a doorbuster DVD for $20. 6am, got in, got the player, and was headed out. Guy at the door stops me, insists on seeing my receipt. I have always refused such requests (politely), just on principle (Don't treat your customers like shoplifters by default). Years ago, when I worked at Computer City, I was advised by the manager that while we could request to see receipts at door checkpoints, we had no entitlement to it. If someone refused, we had to make an instant decision if we really thought that they were a risk, and detain them for the police. He said if we detained, we better be right! Anyway, after politely refusing to show my receipt, I paused to dispose of my now-empty coffee cup in a nearby can, and when I look up, here's this guy again, now just inches from my face, and he has his hands on my package (the DVD, pervs!). I immediately requested the manager, my full intention being to show my receipt to the manager, and while we were both inconvenienced, to explain to her how offensive the checkpoint policy was. As soon as she approached me, she advised a nearby employee to call the police. I then released my grip on the package to retreive my receipt from my back pocket, when the employee decided he was going to snatch the box out of my hands. Well, since he didn't meet the same amount of resistance as he expected, his motion toward me was very exaggerated, and (this sounds funny, but just visualize it) in a downward motion, his head struck my hand. THey took my DVD player, and returned it to my credit card for me. (where I come from, we call that stealin'!). When the police arrived, I was charged with Battery. The police refused my request to review the Surveillance tapes, and just said to "tell it to the judge". I am still battling this thing, but I intend to win. The court offered me a simple $100 fine to plead guilty, but I have opted to pay the several thousand in attorney's fees to defend my good name (and to ensure that the status of my CCW permit is not affected). After several hearings where Best Buy has failed to provide the videotape that would corroborate my story, they have been threatened with Contempt of Court. Oh, and it is in the police report that the mgr on duty stated that there _was_ video coverage of the area in which the incident happened.
Lastly, It should be noted that what started the whole thing was an accusation of shoplifting, but when they found that they were mistaken, they fabricated the battery story just to show me who was boss. If anybody has any similar horror stories regarding the LV locations of BB, I'd love to hear them.

Huh?

Guy at the door stops me, insists on seeing my receipt.

You're still on their property, and I think they have a right to monitor what is leaving their store. It's not like they searched your pocekts or anything.

The mentality that says, "I'm insulted if I have to participate in security screening" bugs the crap out of me.

Washington DC Best Buy accused of racial bias

A reprint of an April 30, 2004 Washington Post article is at http://student-voices.org/news/index.php3?NewsID=1 0915

Quotes from the article:

"The principal of a private high school in the District has accused the new Best Buy store in Tenleytown of discriminating against the school's black students by having them followed as they shopped, subjecting them to searches and, in one instance, letting in a group of young white students to shop but barring a group of young blacks."..."Jennifer Schwab, a representative of Best Buy's customer care office, wrote that she was "disappointed we did not meet your expectations when a couple of your students were shopping in our store." She provided no response to the specific allegations."..."The principal decided to go public with his complaint after he said his students were subjected to further discriminatory incidents, including one witnessed by another school official."

old news

This was pretty radical stuff back before 1998 - then Peppers & Rogers began pushing it in the CRM space.

Of course, this has nothing to do with CRM products like siebel, vantive, etc. But instead has everything to do with methodology - in this case Relationalship Marketing. In this methodology Peppers & Rogers are the thought leaders:
http://www.1to1.com/home.aspx?ItemID=548

As far as bestbuy identifying their worst customers. That's fine, nothing really that wrong with it. It will probably just result in them *not* sending promotions, sales info, etc to those customers.

Best Buy at it's worst...

Unfortunately I was once a Best Buy employee and didn't like it. It wasn't that you were mistreated as an employee but you were just mentally abused by all the bullshit. Every morning you'd go to work and have to watch a movie and/or listen to a long speech of how terrible the "team" was doing. I got so tired of hearing the word team that I was ready to hit someone by the time I left.

Thing is though, after a while it doesn't just settle in. It nags at you worse as time goes by. I don't think it's the managers' fault though. They have a job the same as I did and they were just relaying their orders on to the employees. I don't know who to blame but it's rediculous how much they push you to sell the service plan.

You think the service plan is bad though? It IS! However, you should also take into account of all the other miserable means of sales you have to go through. There is a "process" in which you are required to sell things. This entire process is what you had to watch in those movies in the morning.

Anyway, you were required to great the customer, shake their hands, introduce yourself and your name, ask the customer his/her name, little small talk in between (even though they didn't "advertise" that), ask them lifestyle questions, find out what they were into, match them up to things that fit the style of the person (which never worked), start the sales pitch on the service plan or replacement plan early in the conversation. After getting the sale you were then required to "attach" at least 2 accessories because a sale isn't a sale unless they get the complete package. After that you were then required to try and finish them off on the service plan.

Upon succeeding or failing on the service plan sale you were then required to do even more. Now it's time to pitch the sale of services and subscriptions. That includes DirecTv, Satellite Radio, NetFlix, Msn, Comcast Cable, Reward Zone, Magazines (which were just coming into play as I quit thank god), and Rhapsody. Of all those mentioned, the only one worth a damn was Reward Zone. NetFlix was cool but it wasn't for everyone yet we were chewed out because of that. Satellite Tv and cable internet were things that most people already had or they didn't want anyway.

It's just a shame that Best Buy is the way it is. I told them the day I started working there that I loved their store. I also told them I was coming to work because I loved the environment and how things worked and that it wasn't because of the money. The day I left I told them that I wish I had never worked there because it made me hate the store with a passion that I'd have never had, or at least not for a good while anyway.

So the moral of my rant here is that Best Buy employees aren't always the prime reason of hte problem. You guys will never understand the pressure they put on you to sell something and how low they run you into the ground mentally if you don't get the sale their way.

Consumers can, and do, try to steal

Not Best Buy, but CompUSA.

I was having a computer repaired. The woman and her husband in front of me were arguing viciously with the manager that they should be able to buy a memory card that was on sale two days prior at the sale price.

She was in a wheelchair, she was vulgar, abusive, played the pity card, etc. Her husband was no better. They even lied that they had called in and the "manager" had told them they could. (note: she was talking to said manager)

The manager wouldn't budge.

I was amazed and amused at the gall these assholes exhibited and watched as the worked their way out of the store and through the parking lot. Making *very* sure everyone saw how upset the poor, crippled woman was.

Upshot. When they got back to their truck, the "crippled" woman got out of her wheelchair, picked it up, and TOSSED it into the truck .

I told the manager what I'd seen and all he could do was shake his head.

And people wonder why retailers come to despise some people.

Yet Another Best Buy Horror Story

About 6 months ago, bestbuy.com had a deal - buy the Tenacious D DVD, get a free four-song EP with unreleased tracks. Considering the DVD was selling for less than I had paid for their full-length CD (and it was a 2-DVD set at that), I ordered it, and decided to pick up the DVD at the store that night and have the CD shipped to me.

When I picked up the DVD, the spindle inside the case they gave me was broken, and as a result, one of the discs was so horribly scratched I couldn't play it. "No problem", I thought, "I'll just return it as a defective item and get a new copy." The customer service rep I dealt with said that because I ordered the DVD online, they'd have to void the sale, charge the price back to my card, then create a new sale, but the end result would be the same - I'd get an unscratched DVD. They even let me open the box right there to insure that the discs were OK. So I went home, new DVD in hand, and was happy.

A few days later, when I was checking my credit card online, I noticed the original charge from bestbuy.com, and an additional $17 charge dated the next day. I called their customer support, and was told that since I voided the sale of the DVD, they were charging me full price for the EP. I spent about half an hour on the phone arguing about Best Buy's return policies (she suggested that I should've shipped the DVD I picked up at the B&M store to them at my expense in order to get the replacement), then asked to speak to her boss. Of course, he was unavailable, but I got his name, direct phone number, and a promise that he'd call within 24 hours.

I never did hear back from the manager, but after leaving him a voice mail (where I used phrases like "never shop with you again" and "I will call the Better Business Bureau"), I got the ridiculous price of the EP refunded.

I've never had a problem with the staff at the B&M stores, but it'll be a cold day in hell before I buy from their website again.

Nothing New

This is just marketing 101 - any organization needs to choose which customers it wants to server, and either try to convert customers that don't meet its desired profile, or not cater to those customers at all. That said, I'm personally boycotting Best Buy for three reasons as it is:

1. Those damn rebate slips!
2. Constant pressure to buy useless extended warrenty, even when I tell them in plain English that I don't want it.
3. After purchasing a washer and dryer at Best Buy and paying to have them installed, after three attempts of coming to my house they were still unable to get the darn thing installed. (First time they broke my exhaust hose then proceded to leave a big stinking dump in my bathroom, second time didnt have necessary parts and didnt know what parts I needed to purchase to make it work, etc). In the end, I installed it myself with a couple friends.

My god, if grocery chains could fire customers...

... my mother would never be able to buy another galon of milk. She regularly uses coupons with sales to buy $50 worth of groceries for under $10. Once in a while the store winds up "owing" her money (though of course they never pay)! Yes I realize that the stores get money back for the coupons, but still.... If sales make a company unprofitable, then they just shouldn't have sales. Don't blame the customers.
On the other hand, those who buy, file for rebate and return... Something needs to be done about that. How about a database that the product company can check and update before sending out the rebate, and the store can check and update before accepting the return?

Great Quotes ...

I can't believe this guy...


"Those customers, they're smart, and they're costing us money."

The implication being that its the stupid customer they make money on?


Brad Anderson, Best Buy's chief executive, said:
"That would be directly equivalent to somebody going to an ATM and getting money out without putting any in,"

Um... isn't that the whole purpose of an ATM... you take out money without puttiny any in?

Best Buy Fired Me As A Customer

Read my story [marklyon.org]. After being chased into the parking lot for failing to be searched by their door nazi and threatened with police action, Best Buy has guaranteed that I won't be back.

New Suggested CRM Strategy....for stores...

You built a fuckin' store the size of Texas and have an inventory of goods bigger than some 3rd world countries. Yet, you only have 2 cash registers of your 30, actually open at any one time because you want to save money. Here's an idea, open all of your cash registers every operating hour of the day and advertize..."No lines in our store, ever" The sales from that will more than pay for the shitty wages that you think you're saving. I don't know how many times I've dropped my items and walked out of Best Buy/Home Depot/etc. because those idiots had 2 registers open with a huge line.

Dear Best Buy...

I understand you have a new policy concerning customers, and I believe that I am the customer you are targeting with that policy. I hereby put you on notice that I *will* only buy things from you when they are on sale because they are otherwise overpriced in your store (MSRP, my ass). And if I buy it with a rebate, fulfill the rebate and then find that I am unsatisfied with the product, I *will* return it, and you can worry about the rebate issues.

On the day that you stop having good sales and rebates I will no longer buy from you. I am a veteran of the dot-com boom when everyone and their mother sold things at outrageous prices and then disappeared. I was there when 800.com sold 3 DVDs for $1 with nothing else to buy and they are now gone. Egghead.com had great sales when they went online, but no longer offered competitive pricing so good riddance. Treat me and my fellow customers like crap and you won't even have a store left in your native state of Minnesota. Until then I will suck you dry since (shocking as this may be to Best Buy's management) I am not there to give them as much of my money as I can in each individual product I buy. I want the most bang for the buck.

To those that were actually physically accosted by an employee, I don't know what magic restraint you have, but I would have put that person into an armlock at that point. NOTHING gives them the right to touch you, especially when they are trying to coerce your hard earned money in that fashion.

On rebates.

I've never been denied a rebate. Why? Because immediately after purchase of the items, I read the rebate instructions carefully and follow them exactly to recieve my rebate. Sure enough, X weeks later I do get my rebate check.

Rebates are somewhat tricky, and I agree that the plot of the rebate is that Joe Consumer forgets about ther rebate or fails to follow the proper instructions to recieve the rebate. However, if you follow the instructions to get your rebate, you will get it in most cases.

MP3 Player could get a virus....

About 10 months ago, I stopped by BB on my way home to pick up an iRiver IGP-150, because it supported Ogg and had 1.5 GB storage for a decent price. In checkout, the Cashier asked me to buy an ESP. I said, No thanks. She said "You HAVE to get one because your MP3 player could get a virus from "downloading mp3s from the internet", and that wasn't covered under the warranty." I laughed lightheartedly, and informed her politely that she was mistaken, this was impossible, and she shouldn't tell people this because it was wrong. She got uppity with me, told me "NO, YOU'RE WRONG," told me I was making a huge mistake and finished the sale. I walked right past the door, over to customer service, returned it, told them exactly why I was returning it, and informed them that I'd never shop there again-- and I haven't. This is the best way to deal with these people-- especially if it's a non-sale/rebate item.

Hell, do it for fun. Just go in there and tell them you're buying a widescreen TV or a plasma, and when you get up to the front, and they ask you to buy the plan, say no thank you. When they ask you again to buy it, (and you know they will) just snatch your card back and walk out the door.

Hell, I might do that at lunch.

Guess I'll add mine too...

First off... here's something I usually do at Best Buy (when I'm not just going there because I want to buy "something").

I go to BestBuy.com and find everything I want and order it for In Store Pickup. You pay for the merchandise online, an employee will walk around the store and pick out everything and bring it up to the customer service desk. Then they e-mail you saying your order is ready. You just show up at best buy, show them the printed e-mail and the card you used to purchase it and be on your way. This is *wonderful* to do at Christmas time. I love walking into Best Buy, walking right up to customer service and leaving while watching the wrap around the store line. And I didn't even have to find any of my items. Use it!

Last time I went to Best Buy I bought a logitech wireless keyboard/mouse combo that cost me about $100. I'm used to the first thing out of my mouth being a "no" once I hit the cashier. It went something like this (keep in mind I worked customer service at a store for about 2 years so I know what goes on).

Rep: "Would you like to buy the service plan for $10?"
Me: "No."
Rep: "Well I work at customer service too and I see these come back a lot and if it breaks you'll need the service plan."
Me: "No, if it breaks due to it being faulty you'll exchange it without the service plan."
Rep: "Well... some people find that the range isn't long enough on this product so you'll need the service plan to bring it back if it's not good enough."
Me: "No, if it's not good enough I have several days to make that call and bring it back for a full refund."
Rep: *blank stare*

I really don't get what he was getting at. From past experience in customer service I know I probably could have returned the keyboard and mouse to them covered in peanut butter without a receipt and gotten my money back and a $25 gift card. Being persistent and pleasant tends to get you results. I almost wanted to not buy the product on the basis that if it was that bad of a product I should probably get something else... although I've yet to have problems with it.

The only two things I do have their service plan on is my TV (the tube did go out and the model was discontinued so I ended up better off for it anyhow) and my digital camera because I bought the display one (which was discontinued anyhow) and since they knocked a decent amount off the price it made up for the purchase of the service plan. Plus the plan entitles me to new free batteries for 3 years after I got the plan and the plan was $40 and the batteries cost a good $30. I've already gotten one new battery. Both of my service plans have been useful for me.

Now to go place an order on the BestBuy web site to pick up after work... :)

How it works

Okay, we all know how annoying BB is about the PSPs, but, having worked there for extra cash a couple Christmases ago, I would like to speak in defense of the sales associates.

While it's true they don't get commission, they WILL get fired if their personal numbers don't look good enough, and the main consideration there is how many PSPs they move. Increasingly, the only people who can move those damned things are the ones who are willing to outright lie about them. I sucked at it, but it's either that or get fired.

So although associates are supposed to offer it 3 times and let it go, it sometimes gets belligerent if their numbers are looking bad. That's one response to customers who aren't willing to throw their money away. The other (that I reluctantly started using) was just abandoning customers who wouldn't buy one. If you're finding that you are being hot-potatoed from one associate to the next, it's because no one's numbers are good enough that day to afford selling you that naked laptop (BB makes almost nothing on laptops if you don't throw a bunch of accessories and the PSP on it).

It's an extremely high-pressure job, which can be terminated at any moment, so please keep that in mind when you go there.

Here's how you get around the mess, though: If you're buying computer products, don't talk to an associate if you can help it. Look around the department for where the item is kept, and if it's accessible, pull it from the shelf yourself and take it to the front. The people on the front registers don't have the time or the sales experience to push the PSP more than one time.

If the computer product is not accessible in the department, look above the phones and TVs in the right-back corner. If there are some up there, you can ask one of the TV guys to get it for you. They don't know anything about the computer stuff, and your sale won't affect their departmental or personal numbers, so they will probably just get it for you to get you out of the way.

And regarding rebates, I think someone else already said this, but PHOTOCOPY EVERYTHING. Keep your own copies of everything, because the companies need the originals. Keep accurate records. Neither BB nor the manufacturer is going to be terribly proactive about GIVING you money, so you very well may have to fight them.

And finally, my thoughts on the BB business model: It's fucking doomed. Fewer and fewer people are willing to buy PSPs and ridiculously overpriced accessories--the only things BB makes any money on. BB is going to have to find a way to make money ON THE ITEMS IT SELLS. I kicked ass at loading customers with every cool gadget under the sun, because I knew about every cool gadget under the sun. But then I had to switch from "Isn't this cool?" to "Now I'd like to talk to you about our PSP," and sometimes the customer would just walk. As the business model is set up now, that customer walking is not seen as a bad thing, because the store is losing money on them. But what the model doesn't take into account is that that person probably never shops there again. And tells his friends. BB is flushing their reputation down the toilet, and they don't see it yet. They used to make money with volume and low overhead, but they are increasingly raising that overhead with pretty stores, resulting in them having to find products that don't exist, but that people will fork over money for. It's a crazy system and it's doomed to fail. People go to a store to buy SOMETHING, not NOTHING. If you can't make money on what people come to buy, you're fucked.

I guess I am a demon customer

I must be a "demon customer." When you think about it, most often electronics are "want items" not "need items." This means that you can afford to wait for the really good deals and this is what I do. When the big day to buy the new electronic item comes, I'm up early and hit the store just as the doors open. I walk directly to the department and try to locate the item. If I can't find it I ask a salesperson where it is. If I can, I simply ask them to point me in the direction of it and I get it myself. I try not to get "sales person assistance" if I can help it. I then take my purchase directly to the check out and I decline any "service plan" that is offered me.

If a sales person pushes, I tell them in no uncertain terms that I am not interested in plans, accessories, or other things. If they push a second time, I tell them I will not be pushed and that I do not appreciate their interference. That always stops them. If they make a "final comment" I will either abandon the purchase or ignore them (depending on how bad I want it).

When I have to make a return, I try to be as perfect as possible. I save even the plastic and the tiewraps and put the package back exactly as it was when I opened it. I return the bag and even the plastic outer-wrap. I never make up excuses, if it quit working, I'll say that. If it didn't meet my expectations, I'll say that. If I am making a return, only rarely will I accept an exchange. If the return is not going smoothly, I will give the clerk two choices, either immediately accept the return or call the manager. If they call the manager, I will tell him/her there are two choices, either accept the return or I will cancel the transaction on my credit card. That always works.

As far as I am concerend, I am the customer. In a sense I vote with my money. I am free to spend it where I want, when I want. If you want my money, you will do it my way or I will go somewhere that they will.

I guess that makes me a demon customer and damn I am proud to be one. It is what makes good companies profitable and bad companies go out of business. Businesses need to compete for my money. They need to offer products at fair prices, provide a good shopping experience, and give great customer service or I will vote them off the island. I am a demon and am proud of it!

Dealing with Customers

I worked at Best Buy while looking for a full time programming job and I can tell you everything you want to know about the computer department.

It is true that the managers receive bonuses based on the performance of their departments but it is based by monthly performance, so if you don't want to buy a PSP and don't want to be badgered by pressured sales people, go to buy from beginning to mid month.

Also, as any customer service or sales representative will tell you, being hostile will get you nowhere. If you antagonize me or address me as if I am beneath you, you will not get any help from me. From someone else, you will get some lip back, because it is not a job people regret losing (low paying, crappy hours, dealing with customers like you).

Last but not least. PSP (at least in my store) was a good buy ON CERTAIN ITEMS. (like emachines) We had an extraordinary number of them returned due to problems and Best Buy does not deal with manufacturer warranties. The reason people tell you "You know that you can't bring it back here if it breaks" is because many idiots bring an item back without a service plan, past the return period, and demand Best Buy to repair or replace the item. It wears down everyone in the customer service and the tech department when the customer should know that they need to contact the manufacturer.

That said, I worked in a great store, while it was a great store. Rule of thumb is: Go to a newly opened Best Buy if possible, or one where there is a lot of competition. The managers there are more experienced and customer (as well as staff) oriented because they are either:
a) training new staff or,
b) trying to retain customer base.

Our good management went away after a while (promoted internally) and supervisors, while good sales people, moved up into management and just were not so good. After that our entire computer dept. left because we could not deal with the management. :(

After my stints in sales, and customer service, I was amazed at how many people can be just plain rude and hostile just because someone has to ask one question (I never repeatedly asked for PSP, but I was knowlegeable about computers and thus had a better sales record, and thus was retained as an employee)
My dream is to make a "How to be a good customer" website, describing techniques of being nice AND getting what you want from the sales person (not mutually exclusive).

My take on PSPs...

You know, I started doing this in 1992 when I started college. This was before the BB days, but I went to a HiFi Buys (which subsequently became Tweeter) and bought a receiver. It was cheap, but they still offered the PSP... I declined, but then got the idea to just take that $40 or whatever it was and stick it in a savings account. So, for the past 12 years, for big ticket items like TV's and Laptops and other stuff that would suck to have to replace, I've declined the PSP, but put the cost of the PSP in that savings account. Whenever something has broken beyond repair, I've used that money to replace it.

Today, 12 years later, I'm SO ridiculously far ahead of the game. By simply self-insuring on breakage, I've managed to amass about $4K in that account (and a lot of it is interest).

Just think about all of the cell phones, TVs, appliances, CD players, and other crap the average person buys in 12 years... a PSP is usually about 25% of the cost of an item, so you can well imagine that can add up to a large sum. With a failure rate of around 3% (infant mortality excluded because it's covered under manufacturer's warranty), that's a gigantic profit...

Demon WHO?

I buy a cell-phone, I have 14 days to evaluate it, but I like it immediately so I file for the rebate, but two days later I realize that the cell-service sucks really bad, so I cancel the service within the 14-day mandatory federal evaluation period (still paying the first month and the activation fee but avoiding a hefty early-termination fee) and return the phone. The rebate takes an inexpliciable 8-10 weeks to "process", so when it arrives, it's mine.

You got a problem with that, you give me the "rebate" at the register so it's on the receipt when I return the phone.

Cool.