Labor Board Confirms Amazon Drivers Are Employees, In Finding Hailed By Union (arstechnica.com) 67
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: Amazon may be forced to meet some unionized delivery drivers at the bargaining table after a regional National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) director determined Thursday that Amazon is a joint employer of contractors hired to ensure the e-commerce giant delivers its packages when promised. This seems like a potentially big loss for Amazon, which had long argued that delivery service partners (DSPs) exclusively employed the delivery drivers, not Amazon. By rejecting its employer status, Amazon had previously argued that it had no duty to bargain with driver unions and no responsibility for alleged union busting, The Washington Post reported.
But now, after a yearlong investigation, the NLRB has issued what Amazon delivery drivers' union has claimed was "a groundbreaking decision that sets the stage for Amazon delivery drivers across the country to organize with the Teamsters." In a press release reviewed by Ars, the NLRB regional director confirmed that as a joint employer, Amazon had "unlawfully failed and refused to bargain with the union" after terminating their DSP's contract and terminating "all unionized employees." The NLRB found that rather than bargaining with the union, Amazon "delayed start times by grounding vans and not preparing packages for loading," withheld information from the union, and "made unlawful threats." Teamsters said those threats included "job loss" and "intimidating employees with security guards." [...]
Unless a settlement is reached, the NLRB will soon "issue a complaint against Amazon and prosecute the corporate giant at a trial" after finding that "Amazon engaged in a long list of egregious unfair labor practices at its Palmdale facility," Teamsters said. Apparently downplaying the NLRB determination, Amazon is claiming that the Teamsters are trying to "misrepresent what is happening here." Seemingly Amazon is taking issue with the union claiming that an NLRB determination on the merits of their case is a major win when the NLRB has yet to issue a final ruling. According to the NLRB's press release, "a merit determination is not a 'Board decision/ruling' -- it is the first step in the NLRB's General Counsel litigating the allegations after investigating an unfair labor practice charge." Sean M. O'Brien, the Teamsters general president, claimed the win for drivers unionizing not just in California but for nearly 280,000 drivers nationwide.
"Amazon drivers have taken their future into their own hands and won a monumental determination that makes clear Amazon has a legal obligation to bargain with its drivers over their working conditions," O'Brien said. "This strike has paved the way for every other Amazon worker in the country to demand what they deserve and to get Amazon to the bargaining table."
But now, after a yearlong investigation, the NLRB has issued what Amazon delivery drivers' union has claimed was "a groundbreaking decision that sets the stage for Amazon delivery drivers across the country to organize with the Teamsters." In a press release reviewed by Ars, the NLRB regional director confirmed that as a joint employer, Amazon had "unlawfully failed and refused to bargain with the union" after terminating their DSP's contract and terminating "all unionized employees." The NLRB found that rather than bargaining with the union, Amazon "delayed start times by grounding vans and not preparing packages for loading," withheld information from the union, and "made unlawful threats." Teamsters said those threats included "job loss" and "intimidating employees with security guards." [...]
Unless a settlement is reached, the NLRB will soon "issue a complaint against Amazon and prosecute the corporate giant at a trial" after finding that "Amazon engaged in a long list of egregious unfair labor practices at its Palmdale facility," Teamsters said. Apparently downplaying the NLRB determination, Amazon is claiming that the Teamsters are trying to "misrepresent what is happening here." Seemingly Amazon is taking issue with the union claiming that an NLRB determination on the merits of their case is a major win when the NLRB has yet to issue a final ruling. According to the NLRB's press release, "a merit determination is not a 'Board decision/ruling' -- it is the first step in the NLRB's General Counsel litigating the allegations after investigating an unfair labor practice charge." Sean M. O'Brien, the Teamsters general president, claimed the win for drivers unionizing not just in California but for nearly 280,000 drivers nationwide.
"Amazon drivers have taken their future into their own hands and won a monumental determination that makes clear Amazon has a legal obligation to bargain with its drivers over their working conditions," O'Brien said. "This strike has paved the way for every other Amazon worker in the country to demand what they deserve and to get Amazon to the bargaining table."
This better not... (Score:1)
...drive up the price of Prime. This aggression will not stand.
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Let's hope the union drives their assess out of business
Unlikely. Amazon is more likely to cancel the contracts with the DSPs and either hire its own drivers or go back to using UPS. Avoiding the teamsters was the whole point of dumping UPS.
The current NLRB might not let Amazon cancel the contracts, but the NLRB swings from left to right, depending on the president. If Harris wins, Amazon will be in trouble. If Trump wins, the union will be in trouble.
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Moreover, $15-30 is a lot of money, that is $30-60k/year without overtime and at those rates really without federal taxes.
Whatever you say, Jeff. If you think that's a lot of money, you go right ahead and live off that amount. You obviously don't need your billions.
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I disagree. If my high school drop out job could actually buy me a home, had good healthcare, pensions, etc, then there would be little to no reason to leave my high school drop out job. That's literally doing the bare minimum.
You can't expect to live a good life doing the bare minimum. Doing the bare minimum means you are going to struggle to get by.
Instead of crying about fairness and life being hard and a struggle, trying improving yourself, gaining some actual skills and go become a more productive memb
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It's a high school drop out job. How much did you think it was going to pay? I'm also in one of these high school drop out jobs (I work in the grocery business). Instead of complaining about fairness, I've gone back to school to acquire more skills and hopefully move on to a better, higher paying job. Sitting around crying about my shitty job isn't going to fix it.
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Re:I'm not pro-union. BUT. (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm not pro-union. BUT. On this particular thing, I agree.
And then you go on to make the perfect case for unions to exist. Individuals dont have teams of lawyers and a massive HR department to help them negotiate employment like major corporations do. Welcome to the first step in seeing that!
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Companies don't have, or use, "teams of lawyers and a massive HR department to help them negotiate employment" with normal employees. *Maybe* they use those to help negotiate with C-level executives. For people working below $100k/year ($50/hour) I would be surprised if it involves more than one manager and maybe an HR person.
Those big teams exist to comply with government regulations, and they get paid from overhead costs that could otherwise go to the employees who actually produce for the company.
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Companies don't have, or use, "teams of lawyers and a massive HR department to help them negotiate employment" with normal employees. *Maybe* they use those to help negotiate with C-level executives. For people working below $100k/year ($50/hour) I would be surprised if it involves more than one manager and maybe an HR person.
For the unwashed masses, they instead use teams of lobyists to buy politicians and ensure that laws that massively favour corporations and allow them to abuse their employees are passed.
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Companies don't have, or use, "teams of lawyers and a massive HR department to help them negotiate employment" with normal employees.
Yes they most certainly do. That's literally one of the responsibilities of an HR department, hiring normal employees.
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If a high school drop out job met all my needs, why would I bother to try any harder? Seriously, if McDs or package delivery was good enough to provide me with everything I need, why work my ass off to get more when it's only going to be marginally better or possibly just a parallel of what I have?
I think you would find most people aren't doing their job out of passion but out of survival.
I'm currently back in school, trying to improve myself so that I can get a better job that pays more. Staying in my curr
Prime just went up! (Score:1)
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Prime never gets to me in two days anyway. I only buy it in limited pieces on an occasional basis, when I want to get a better shipping option on something or when they have something I want to watch. I look forward to more Fallout coming out, but while the first episodes were ad free they really amped up the ads by the end... so I don't think that's going to be a time when I subscribe unless I need it for shipping.
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Re: Prime just went up! (Score:2)
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I have often suspected that Amazon moves products around their warehouses speculatively. If one person buys a product first they ship several copies to the local w
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I too have seen what you have described. Most of my online ordering doesn't need to arrive NOW. Any time in the next week or two will be acceptable. Often times, I've bought items that were prime items but I'm not a prime member. Those things still tend to show up before the expected delivery window.
Of course, I do live in a major metro and the complex I live in gets at least one Amazon van a day. If you live in the middle of no where, this is probably not true.
This will be in court for years (Score:2)
"Next, the NLRB will determine if the "remaining allegations should be decided by an administrative law judge," Hards said. After that, Amazon will have opportunities to appeal any unfavorable rulings, first to the Board and then to a federal appeals court, the NLRB confirmed to Ars."
On a side note, a recent SCOTUS decision [forbes.com] was not keen on the legality of administrative law judges
Does anyone know the url for the judicial override (Score:1)
I'm betting it will be less than a month before a Federal Judge appointed by Trump puts a hold on this until it can go the Supreme Court to be overruled because the NLRB is unconstitutional when it comes to Union positive decisions.
What are the odds?
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The NLRB was established by the Wagner Act and signed into law by FDR. It very much is a government agency. https://www.archives.gov/miles... [archives.gov]
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Amazon needs unions and unsafe driving damage need (Score:2)
Amazon needs unions and unsafe driving damage needs to be covered by amazon and not hidden behind and system of sub contractors
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I know a driver who works through a subcontractor in a metro area and he says they don't even have working emergency brakes in their vans.
I'm told the sub is run by foreign nationals who detest the American workers they have to hire.
Maybe joint liability would clean things up and put a whistleblower program in place.
Amazon Drivers are Amazon Employees (Score:3)
The notion that these people work for anyone other than Amazon is a joke. They will do anything they can to cut costs. Anything. They will hire an army of Lawyers and Accountants rather than have any part in middle class prosperity. He'd rather pay dividends to stockholders than give an inch to anyone too poor to own or be paid in stock. Divide and conquer begins with the classification of blue and white collars. This is the same old shit in American labor arm wrestling big business all over again. Make no mistake, Amazon would prefer to not to have any human liability on their payroll. They will take every opportunity to automate everything except human consumption. They are Borg, resistance is futile. Automate and de-humanize is their specialty.
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Excellent, I want to hire you using an Amazon contract. Let's assume you have a complaint:
You can quit, as soon your contract expires. In the meantime, please use the pitiful wage I give you, to litigate for breach of contract. Sorry, you can't do that: Your contract demands arbitration, where I choose the 'judge'. Please, file your grievance with head office and I'll be judge-shopping, not hiring security-guards carrying tasers, I promise.
The real lesson is, don't sign these contracts: The "land
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Sir, this is a Wendy's. I mean the United States. Outside of major league sports, how many people here have employment contracts that say they will work for X years or even days? It's typically -- and by default -- "at-will", meaning either the employer or employee can terminate the employment at any time, for any reason that isn't specifically illegal.
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You couldn't afford me.
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The wealthiest workers in the history of the world are all members of unions. Actors, directors, athletes making hundreds of millions of dollars - all members of unions.
Your problem isn't unions. Your problem is your bootlicking serf mentality.
You live in a communist utopia where food, housing and medical care are all provided independent of employment status? No? Then
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Definition of employee, reason for a union (Score:3)
Note: The government hates it's own definition of employee because the worst offender for misclassifying workers as contractors is the government.
Union - the purpose of a union is to create fair negotiations when an employer or group of employers has some sort of advantage over the potential employees. A union is not there to hold a business hostage so that employees get the wage they think they deserve. I don't see how Amazon has any advantage over these employees. They haven't invested in any skill or tools, they haven't moved to a town with only one employer. If they stopped working for amazon would they be worse off than the position they were in before they started working for Amazon?
Way too late (Score:3)
Yeah this checks (Score:3)
Unlike Uber in California, which clearly was a case of contractors (will touch below), these are really employees.
They drive Amazon branded vans, they work on Amazon's schedule, they deliver Amazon packages, and any customer service is done though Amazon application. They have no outside contact other than Amazon (except for payroll, obviously)
Compare that to Uber. (Not that I love the company, but here were the facts).
Many of my friends did that in between jobs. And what I saw was:
They were driving their own vehicles, they work on their own schedule, in fact they offer both Uber and Lyft at the same time. Many also Doordash and others, so they choose work. They are not exclusive. And customer service is done though many different applications. There is not investment either (at least not as much as becoming an Amazon driver)
Compared to those, Amazon is a clear cut case. Yes, I am sure they will delay this in courts, and try to extract as much as possible. But if you completely control every aspect of an employee's work, it is no longer a contractor position.
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Well, at least the Teamsters historically did operate as terrorist organizations. I had a roommate at one time who formerly worked for the Teamsters. I asked him what his job was. "Enforcer." Uh, what does that mean? "If anyone tries to work or run a truck through a picket line during a strike, they end up being sorry."
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We didn't get to being the most productive country in the world by being fair or nice. This is American we're talking about. Big business is the whole point.
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I was thinking more from a GDP standpoint but I'm sure per capita you are correct.