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Bitcoin

NYSE Owner Launches Long-Awaited Bitcoin Futures (wsj.com) 40

Posted by msmash from the moving-forward dept.
The owner of the New York Stock Exchange launched its long-delayed market for bitcoin futures Sunday, a high-profile bet that consumers, businesses and Wall Street will embrace cryptocurrencies. From a report: Trading in the new bitcoin futures began just after 8 p.m. EDT [Editor's note: the link may be paywalled; alternative source], with the first trade at $10,115.00, in line with the current price of bitcoin, said a spokesman for the exchange's parent company, Intercontinental Exchange Futures let traders bet on whether an underlying market such as oil, gold, stocks or currencies will rise or fall. The new futures are part of a venture called Bakkt (pronounced "backed"), whose ultimate goal is to make cryptocurrencies sufficiently transparent and regulated for individuals to use in retail purchases. Bitcoin has failed to gain traction as a tool for payment, in part because of its extreme volatility. If successful, ICE's futures could make it easier for merchants to protect themselves from swings in bitcoin prices.
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NYSE Owner Launches Long-Awaited Bitcoin Futures More

NYSE Owner Launches Long-Awaited Bitcoin Futures

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  • Now you can invest in Bitcoin FUTURES? Hold on, let me just sell my subprime mortage backed CDOs.
    • As TFS noted, it is a hedging tool. If you are just buying a bunch of futures and betting the underlying will go up, well, you are mostly doing it wrong.

      • As a hedge fund manager, obviously, you make money on both the ups and the downs.

        In case of the downs, that money comes from your victims, err, clients.

        • "hedge fund" as the term is used, has nothing to do with hedging as a financial operation used to mitigate risk. In this case, one might buy bitcoin futures to buy btc at some price as a precaution against unexpected price volatility. Sure it costs you some small amount if the price doesn't fluctuate, much like an insurance policy where you don't file any claims. But generally worth it in order to alleviate large uncertainty over future prices.
    • Yeah - no kidding. You might as well start a futures desk on roulette wheel outcomes.
      Futures trading makes sense on an actual commodity (oil, corn, pork bellies) it makes less sense on a currency though you can apply some rationale there (as a currency rises and falls based upon how a nation is doing) but digital currency that has no backing and no other value than speculative demand?! No.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by shanen ( 462549 )

      Now you can invest in Bitcoin FUTURES? Hold on, let me just sell my subprime mortage backed CDOs.

      What's going on with the lack of mod points? You got halfway to funny (and I'd have given the other half if I could), but not a single comment in the discussion has any visible moderation. I actually expected to see a vigorous flame-war at a minimum. There is a solution approach, but...

      (My own take on the "story" is that there's an infinite supply of "interesting" equations and associated sequences of numbers, so I see no reason why BitCoin in particular should have any intrinsic value.)

      • not a single comment in the discussion has any visible moderation. I actually expected to see a vigorous flame-war at a minimum.

        Seems like the slashdoterati no longer have any interest in Bitcoin. "First they fight you, then they laugh at you, then they ignore you, ...."

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by shanen ( 462549 )

          not a single comment in the discussion has any visible moderation. I actually expected to see a vigorous flame-war at a minimum.

          Seems like the slashdoterati no longer have any interest in Bitcoin. "First they fight you, then they laugh at you, then they ignore you, ...."

          Uh... Aren't you running the sequence backwards? Or is this a "And then you lose" joke?

  • Is it when the spread between bitcoins and futures becomes, er, noticeable?

  • "Trading is now live for Bakkt’s regulated, physically-delivered daily and monthly bitcoin futures, with the first trade executed at 8:02 pm ET on Sunday. "

    What does a physically delivered bitcoin future look like?

  • Bitcoin is worth exactly what the next guy will pay for it, but the underlying value ("asset" or "security") is exactly zero. Establishing a secondary market is equivalent to gambling on how gamblers will gamble.

    This is beyond stupid.

    Remember: for every dollar made in a trade on the stock market... there's a dollar lost.

    E

    • Bitcoin is worth exactly what the next guy will pay for it

      So is everything else in the universe.

      Establishing a secondary market is equivalent to gambling on how gamblers will gamble.

      Yes, it's perfect! We already have those markets. I forget the official term.

      This is beyond stupid.

      And what's not to capitalize on stupid? It will pump and launder billions through the financial markets.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by gavron ( 1300111 )

        >> Bitcoin is worth exactly what the next guy will pay for it
        > So is everything else in the universe.

        Not really. Tangible things like cars, houses, etc. all have an underlying value.
        Instruments such as stocks, bonds, insurance portfolios, loans, also have a value
        but it's less tangible.

        What this means in the practical sense is if I try to sell a $100K house for $200K
        I may get stupid lucky... but if I don't... if I bring that price below $100K, someone
        will come buy it. Because it's worth it. Not j

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by geekoid ( 135745 )

      Maybe you don't understand it?

      "Remember: for every dollar made in a trade on the stock market... there's a dollar lost."
      That's a simpleton view, at best.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by gavron ( 1300111 )

        When you can't address the content, call the person who said it a simpleton.

        No worries, mate. I may be simple, but at least I understand the market... ...and how to respond politely to people, even if they are not worth it.

        E

  • Remember: Every time some company is valued higher, or generally somebody "makes" (up new) money, it means the total amount of money available to buy things grows. Which means the prices can grow. But also that your salary is a smaller percentage of that total. So de-facto, you got a pay cut. Your money is worth less.

    And usually, that kind of shenenigans is reserved for stock markets that are capable of dealing with belief-based valuations instead of real physical goods with physical limitations.

    Adding insa

  • Stop giving legitimacy to BitsOfCrimeCoin.

  • The Bitcoin Foundation should have never allowed the commodity itself to be openly traded on the market because the goals of each (trading vs using) are exactly opposed to one another. If Bitcoin as a monitary system is to be useful for people to save and buy things then Bitcoin above all else needs to be stable in value.

    On the other hand, anything that is traded as a commodity is not useful to the day trader unless it is unstable. If the price doesn't go up or down you can't make any money trading it, the

    • The Bitcoin Foundation should have never allowed the commodity itself to be openly traded on the market because the goals of each (trading vs using) are exactly opposed to one another.

      You never heard of currency trading?

  • Never really thought of the NYSE as being "owned" by someone before now.

    It makes sense I guess, just never really considered it.

    You learn something new every couple days i guess.

  • It is worth noting that futures exchanges are continually introducing new contracts, in the hopes of winning new trading business. Not all of them succeed (here's an example from a quick search: https://www.confectionerynews.... [confectionerynews.com]).

    This contract may or or may not prove popular. The CME has a competing contract that appears fairly well-traded already (https://www.cmegroup.com/trading/equity-index/us-index/bitcoin_quotes_volume_voi.html), so I think this competing attempt will fail.

    • Many years ago, I took a futures class from a professor who worked in the research department of a futures exchange. One of the questions on the final was, "Imagine a future based on the temperature at a ski region. Will a market for this future be sustainable?" The student had to pick a side and justify it with reasons. I'm convinced the professor asked a version of this question every year, with different proposed markets, to see which ideas to recommend be brought to market.
  • Yeah.. somehow I do not think a futures system that requires maintaining a potentially complicated portfolio is really going to be what small merchants want for 'protecting' themselves.

  • ...Bitcoin down to $9,692.51 at 11:10pm EDT.

  • can somebody eplain my how this is not just the same as gambling?

    you make a bet on wheter the value will rise of lower?
    might as well place a bet for a sports game.

    and this is on wall street, the so called economic heart of the world?

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