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Norway Becomes First NATO Country To Accuse China of Stealing Military Secrets ( 120

An anonymous reader writes: A high-ranking general in the Norwegian Army and head of the Norwegian Intelligence Service E-tjenesten (Etterretningstjenesten) has made official statements accusing the Chinese government of launching cyber-attacks against his country. Gen. Lunde says that state-sponsored hacking groups have targeted many Norwegian companies during the past year. He says that these companies are suppliers and collaborators of the Norwegian army and that hackers have stolen information considered to be state military secrets. The statements were made to Norwegian TV station TV2 by General Lt. Morten Haga Lunde, who was detailing his agency's most recent intelligence report.
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Norway Becomes First NATO Country To Accuse China of Stealing Military Secrets

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  • by Anonymous Coward

    Let's see... China has a truly awful record on human rights. China steals military secrets from Western countries. China makes cheap knock-offs of products designed by businesses in more developed countries. And lets not forget that China backs the DPRK, with a brutal nutjob of a dictator who threatens nuclear conflict and has an even worse human rights record. It's easy to point to countries where a regime change might help the world. In the case of China, we'd all be better off if the commie government wa

    • by Etherwalk ( 681268 ) on Saturday February 27, 2016 @12:00AM (#51596687)

      Unfortunately for now China is pretty much the biggest shithead in the world.

      So what you're saying is, you haven't been following the Republican debates?

    • by unixisc ( 2429386 ) on Saturday February 27, 2016 @12:34AM (#51596819)
      Yeah, but this is not the Norway of the Viking era - they are completely emasculated - just like the rest of their continent. If Chinese feel the need to steal military secrets from NORWAY, they really have no standards. It's like car thieves stealing Chevy Metros. (There, the first time I did a /. car analogy to make my point, and yeah, Virginia, you're right, I do feel great about it.)
      • by Kjella ( 173770 ) on Saturday February 27, 2016 @10:07AM (#51598027) Homepage

        To put it this way, I would dread the day the US said you wusses take care of yourself we're pulling out of NATO. Despite being occupied once in living memory, we're still so naive we'd be cheering on Chamberlain and "peace for our time" right up to the point Russian Spetsnaz or IS militants start parading in the capital, like they did the very same day [] the Nazis invaded. Fortunately Eastern Europe has been peeling away from Russia, so hopefully we're not put to the test because I think we'd epic fail again.

        That said our military equipment is largely yours, today we fly American F-16s tomorrow we fly American F-35s. We do NATO exercises together, learning tactics from you. Our plans for defense are part of NATOs plan for defense, like forward storage of US military equipment for US troops to defend the alliance. And despite arms trade being a contentious topic we don't advertise much, we actually have some high tech missile systems and such we sell to the US and other allies. Granted the US keeps quite a few cards to themselves, but there's quite a lot worth stealing.

        But when it comes to attitude, it's almost like we don't believe in evil anymore. That we're all good at heart and all the bad guys have just had bad childhoods or bad experiences or have been indoctrinated or brain washed. That hate should be met with love, that people are just misunderstood and have lost their way and that everyone can be rehabilitated back to upstanding members of society. And despite all the evidence to the contrary it's not their failure, it's our failure to get them off this destructive path. And if we could just find that, we'd all hold hands and sing kumbayah.

        • Fundamentally, the United States foots the military budget for a huge portion of the developed world--Pretty much all of Western Europe, Japan, Australia, South Korea, etc...

          While some of those countries have an impressive military budget, The UK, France, Germany, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Italy and Canada together spend only about 45% of what the US spends. (Not all are NATO members, but they all have significant military expenditures.)

          If the US walked out of NATO it would lose 2/3rds of its military

      • most car analogies on /. are made in a way that works across countries. yours is useless. is chevy metro a large luxurious expensive car or a small cheap-as-chips rustbucket? or are you alluding to its age? (is it old or new?) is it reliable or known to be the opposite? your analogy did not clarify anything.

        • The Chevy Metro is one of the smallest, cheapest and weakest cars in the US market, available from GM. Probably the American answer to the Yugo or the Trabi. It's hard to merge on the freeway in such a car. The only good thing about it is its fuel efficiency. If a car thief wanted to break into and steal a car, he'd probably want to target a nice, expensive and powerful car that's worth the trouble of breaking into & stealing. The Chevy Metro ain't one of those. Which is why breaking into such a c
        • A large, luxurious expensive car with a Chevy badge? Surely you just.

          The Chevy Metro is a re-badged Suzuki Swift. Happy now?

      • by bytesex ( 112972 )

        Norway builds cryptos, radios, subs, guns and oilrigs.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by ClickOnThis ( 137803 )

      And lets not forget that China backs the DPRK,

      You might want to get caught up on current events. []

      • China's main concern with North Korea is stability. They just want the country to stay right where it is, because a war would be a great deal of trouble for China. NK's tendency towards sabre-rattling concerns them too.

    • Yeah, we have such a GREAT track record with replacing regimes recently. Let's mess with a country that has a billion people and nukes, what could possibly go wrong?

      • Considering they are claiming control of shipping and fishing lanes they previously never controlled and are building artificial islands to claim seas belong to them what could go wrong with doing nothing? The Philippines and India might be worried over nothing but let's ignore everything because what could go wrong.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      > Let's see...

      Yeah, let us see.

      > China has a truly awful record on human rights.

      Just like Russia and the US.

      > China steals military secrets from Western countries.

      You cannot honestly say that after the spying scandals by the US and everybody and his dog knows the Russians spy (they give decoration objects with ears IIRC).

      > China makes cheap knock-offs of products designed by businesses in more developed countries.

      China makes the parts that equip high-quality cars and US planes (!), too: they mak

  • by Anonymous Coward

    So this tiny little country is willing to step up and call out the state-sponsored hacking from China that undermines the military posture of NATO? Meanwhile on a golf course somewhere in the continental US... the executive branch is silent on the topic. Time to re-connect with my Norwegian college buddy to find out their countries "man up" secret so I might be able to share.....

    • by icebike ( 68054 )

      Bitching about it in the press us hardly something to praise. To paraphrase Stalin, "how many divisions does the press have?"

      You get beat, you go back and clean up your act, plug the holes, and thank your lucky stars you didn't have to learn that lesson in wartime.

  • by blindseer ( 891256 ) <blindseer@earthD ... et minus painter> on Saturday February 27, 2016 @12:01AM (#51596691)

    Air Gap.

    Keep your state secrets off of internet connected systems and the only way that someone can steal those secrets is with a "Mission Impossible" team sneaking in and crawling through the duct work.

    Oh, and maybe you shouldn't have a duct running to your super secret computer room that is large enough for a human to crawl through. Just a thought.

    • The problem with isolating your computer from all other networks is that you tend to lose the advantages of having computers on a shared network, which are obviously rather significant. Military secrets don't exist in a vacuum. They need to be shared with selected other people to be useful. Projects are collaborated and worked on... orders are carried out... data must be analyzed. It's all well and good to say "lock up your secrets where no one can get to them", but remember, that includes the people th

  • by Anonymous Coward

    If you don't want your military secrets to be stolen, how about you don't put them on the internet? Simples, no?

    Everyone spies. Rather than complaining cos you're not as good at the Game as they are, how about you secure yourself and do a little hacking right back?

    • by aliquis ( 678370 )

      If you don't want your military secrets to be stolen, how about you don't put them on the internet?

      Alternatively find a location which has a great firewall and put the servers behind there!

  • I'd be happy if they'd just knock it off with the phishing/malware spam already.

  • I thought America has been accusing them of stealing all kinds of secrets. Was that accusation limited to business *secrets?

    *Where "business secrets" means "please build this for us at absurdly cheap prices, but don't learn anything about it".

    • "please build this for us at absurdly cheap prices, but don't learn anything about it".

      Don't worry. Judging from all the Chinese junk that ends up in the Dollar Store, they haven't.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    China no have many fjords. We steal fjords.
  • that this will have an effect on snooping? Like - make them stop trying after succeeding?

  • Der eenternet in dem pot is zu zecure zu breaka eento. Bork bork bork!

  • For fucksake slashdot, enough with these cyber bullshit stories. Has Norway ever considered not keeping its 'state military secrets' on Microsoft Windows connected to the Internet.
  • Shuddup and steal back

  • by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Saturday February 27, 2016 @02:36PM (#51599263)
    I'm Asian and I keep having to emphasize this with my Caucasian friends. Standards of behavior are arbitrary. Just because you're used to one standard doesn't mean you should expect other people elsewhere in the world to adhere to the same standard.

    The Western standard is that you don't directly steal things someone is trying to keep secret. You pass a few laws making the behavior illegal, and that's it. Anyone who breaks the law and steals your secret is a "shithead" (to quote another comment), and should be tried and jailed. You can infer the secret from afar, based on secondary information which leaks out, but stealing it directly is a no-no.

    The Eastern standard is that if you want to keep something secret, you'd better do everything you can to keep it secret. If someone manages to hack you and steal your secrets, it's your own damn fault for not protecting yourself. Corporate and state-sponsored espionage isn't just encouraged, it's expected. You can be fired if you refuse your company's orders to spy on a competing company. Just don't get caught doing it. That'll result in you being fired in order for the company to save face - everyone pretends they respect each others' secrets, even while they're secretly trying to steal them.

    The Hainan Island incident [] is a good example. The U.S. felt justified spying because they flew the EP-3 just outside Chinese territorial waters. They weren't breaking any laws, so by Western standards the behavior was OK. By Eastern standards, the behavior became unacceptable the moment it was clear they were spying. If the U.S. had been spying secretly, it'd be OK. But doing it overtly and openly by flying the EP-3 in plain sight just outside the Chinese border was a faux pas.

    Because of this difference in standards of behavior, I read about all the joint technology deals Western companies make with China, and just shake my head in disbelief. Like the German company agreeing to manufacture high speed trains in China, instead of manufacturing them in Germany and shipping them to China. After a couple years, the Chinese told them they didn't need their help anymore, and didn't renew the contract. Obviously what happened was the Chinese went over every inch of the production facilities during off-hours to glean every nugget of information they could about manufacturing these trains. And after a couple years when they felt they had a good enough handle on how it all worked, they ditched the German company and started manufacturing the trains themselves. The Germans expected the Western standard of behavior - that the Chinese would "respect" the sanctity of their production secrets and not try to copy them. (Kawasaki did the same thing to my surprise, since they knew going in that this would happen.)

    So don't expect the Chinese hacking and spying to stop. As long as there's plausible deniability, they're going to keep at it. The onus is on Western companies and governments to protect themselves as best they can, because the Eastern standard wins in a race to the bottom.
    • by dave420 ( 699308 )

      You are ignoring the corporate espionage that happens in the west. That kind of defeats your strange, rambling argument.

1 1 was a race-horse, 2 2 was 1 2. When 1 1 1 1 race, 2 2 1 1 2.