Eclipse Makes Java Development on the Mac Easier 205
An anonymous reader writes "While the Java development environment is fully integrated into Mac OS X, the Eclipse developer IDE brings a fully integrated Java development environment to Mac OS X that provides a more consistent and easier to develop cross-platform experience. This article shows you how quickly you can be up and running with Eclipse and Java development on the Mac. 'Whether you're a Mac OS X Java developer working on cross-platform Java projects, a Linux developer switching to Mac OS X because of its UNIX-based core, or a general Java developer looking to develop applications targeted to Mac OS X, you'll want to look at the Eclipse IDE because it provides a solution to each of these development needs. While Mac OS X provides Xcode as its primary Java development IDE, Eclipse provides a more robust cross-platform development environment, with application frameworks for reporting, database access, communications, graphics, and more, and a rich-client platform framework for building applications.'"
I thought Slashdot was "News for nerds". (Score:4, Insightful)
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Cross platform? Is there another one?
Not funny?
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There is a referrer in link (while it points to IBM.com, safe), it is submitted by AC, comes from Firehose?
Perhaps we should "sherlock" a bit?
What am I missing here? (Score:3, Insightful)
So where the heck is the news here? You might as well post an article about how Linux is
Re:Eclipse on Mac OSX (Score:5, Informative)
java irrelevant?
heh, back to objective c with ya then talladega. that'll learn you all about irrelevant. ( just go trawl the it jobs section and do a count on the number of objective-c ads compared to java...)
as for the rest of your bizarre rant, java runs just fine on osx.
why no swing canvans painter in eclipse? because it uses the SWT gui toolkit, ya donk! geez, and i thought zonk was bad enough spewing this crap as news in the first place!
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If Apple didn't do the porting, there would be no Java for Mac OS X at all.
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You both should get a clue imho. Sun does not support Mac OS X because Apple and Sun have a contract that Apple gets the relevant stuff from Sun (more or less for free) and Apple takes care about the support for Java on Mac OS X.
Yes, for consumers it looks as if new Java releases are coming a bit slow
The problem with you guys is: you download new stuff for linux every day. You check it out from CVS and SVN
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Apple has done a nice job at UI integration for what Java versions they have released, but they definitely are also sending a message that they really don't care about staying up to da
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From the Apple Developer Connection website:
"Java SE 6 Release 1 is based on JDK 1.6.0_b88 and brings enhanced functionality to the Java SE platform on Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger. The preview supports both Intel-based and PowerPC-based Macintosh computers and is not removable. Please see the release notes for more information. This is Developer Preview 6 of Java SE 6 Release 1 for Mac OS X Tiger."
Guess that means no Mustang for Tiger then?
Anyway, so wha
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Contradicting Itself? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Contradicting Itself? (Score:5, Informative)
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Uhh, Netbeans (Score:2, Interesting)
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A few months ago I switched to a Macbook. When writing (for) server applications to be run on a unix environment, it helps to run a unix variant for local testing. Native terminals also help a lo
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NetBeans is an incredibly pleasant environment compared to Eclipse a lot of the time, but it does require some setup. The main configuration file has a set of "optimised" settings that are commented out; uncommenting these tends to make it as responsive as Eclipse.
Java on OS X with Swing widgets is often a pain because of Apple's Swing LAF implementation, though. It's heavier and much slower than Sun's implementation on other platforms.
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I wasn't aware that Netbeans was capable of handling Ruby etc properly so I'll have to check it out again - thanks for the pointer!
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This is supposed to be a PLUS on MacOS X? If you want a consistent cross-platform experience, use NetBeans. If you want something that actually functions as expected on OS X and is consistent with the Mac UI, use xCode. The only plus I can see is that people who regularly use Eclipse can now use it on OS X. But wait... they've been able to do that
Stop criticizing the ad. (Score:2)
Now, Mac OS has this IDE and that other program, runs Photoshop and loves children... you'll love it.
Bias (Score:1)
XCode is much better at developing Java on a mac.
SWT (Score:3, Insightful)
I've used both, and each have thier strengths.
Re:Contradicting Itself? (Score:4, Informative)
This is particularly amusing, since Apple have spent a lot of time and effort on their Swing look and feel, so Swing applications feel less out of place than SWT ones on the Mac now (although both feel more out of place than Mocha ones, making it a shame Apple deprecated the bridge).
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
NetBeans?? (Score:3, Interesting)
I guess a better conclusion would be a disclaimer: -
I do not know what I am talking about!
Re:NetBeans?? (Score:4, Informative)
Eclipse is a fine product, I'm sure, but it's pretty much set up to be the whole and only development environment. When a solution to a problem is "wipe your workspace and start over, and get it right this time", there's a serious usability issue (from my point of view, at least).
The above-mentioned "Eclipse guy" ended up doing some work for us. We gave him a skeleton project (directory structure, third-party libraries, ant buildfile, etc.) to start with, as we'd eventually be the ones maintaining the code when he was done. It proved to be rather difficult for him to adapt Eclipse to our bog-standard project structure -- he eventually discarded all of it and went with what Eclipse wanted to do.
Now we have some code that is designed to be compiled and run from Eclipse, and nowhere else.
Netbeans, on the other hand, fell over itself accomodating our project structure. "Fixing up" the NetBeans configuration was a snap (once the correct magic dialog box was found, that that's ever the case for GUI tools).
In short, Eclipse is a fine tool, for those that like it and can mandate that everyone else in the project use Eclipse. If you're working in a heterogeneous environment, however, and desire a GUI IDE, then you should also check out NetBeans.
(Of course, to be fair, on my Mac, I tend to use Terminal.app and GVim for preference, and neither Eclipse nor Netbeans.)
Re:NetBeans?? (Score:5, Insightful)
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For java?!?! oh - you are one of those people..
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I actually kind of split between using the xCode editor and VIM
I've always worked in Emacs (yeah, it is more an OS than an editor) using the JDEE [sunsite.dk] plugin that provides full support for Ant.
Recently I thought about pulling together a flash stick with a list of tools I use but wanted to be able to run regardless of the host I plugged into. I considered various scripting languages like TCL, PERL and Python, and decided to find what Java tools were available. I figured I was likely to find a JRE installed
Re:NetBeans?? (Score:4, Interesting)
- check out from source control
- select 'source' folders from the checked out spot, and right click to 'use as source folder' ( do this for test classes too )
- define where to spit the compiled classes to
- select the libraries in the checked out project and 'add to build path'
- double click build.xml, select target to run and press play...
dare i say your eclipse guy may have been bluffing.
i've come across all sorts of good|bad|ugly project layouts in the java ( and c, and perl, and
getting the project running inside the ide can be a different story, from as easy as selecting the class with public static void Main(String[] args) in it , through to loading up a plugin with a j2ee container like jboss ( or just create a debug target with all the jars in a tomcat release and use org.apache.catalina.bootstrap.Startup as the main class...), and hooking in your web app as directed by the wizards.
what i find really out of whack in the parent, grandparent, and all the other little side fires going on is that the argument eclipse is being cast as Netbeans.
i've been working java professional services for years, in and around dozens of client sites with all sorts of java developers at different levels, and i tell ya, the flamewars are all eclipse vs. idea intelliJ.
netbeans? hmmm. netbeans 4 was nice in that it was all worked around ant, but the down side was that each project you create ( and get an autogenerated build.xml ) always ended up with these tenticles that meant you needed all the netbeans libraries around just to get a build going, namely through all the -targets and the taskdefs they wired in.
netbeans was a decent ide for standard swing|awt dev a number of years ago, but had a nasty habit of generating a metric assload of
then theres getting back to the original post.
this is not news.
eclipse has run on OSX for years. the SWT libraries have sometimes lagged a few months behind other platforms in the past ( windows & linux are usually out at the same time ), but this has changed over the last year or 2, and the major platforms are now pretty much all out at the same time.
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Secondly, you are right that no-one cares about NetBeans - it's IDEA vs Eclipse and that's that. I never got into IDEA but I concede it's a fine IDE, on par with Eclipse, and with some advantages over Eclipse and some drawbacks. The main reason I am not switching is that it doesn't have that one killer feature over Eclipse, so I stick with what's free.
Third, the post above has to be taken with
Re:Java n00b's question (Score:5, Informative)
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In my experience, the Apple Swing LAF is heavy and slow compared to that on other systems, actually. They seem to have wrapped their native widget set and put in a lot of layers of indirection to make the widgets behave like they should in Swing.
As for NetBeans being slower than Eclipse in general, I don't agree, although if you don't optimise it the garbage collection pauses can get very intrusive. I tend to have about 40 or more text buffers open a
The opposite here (Score:2, Informative)
I guess the latest JVM (6) has finally made Swing work as fast as SWT.
It also seems that Eclipse's text edi
Eclipse crashes. (Score:2)
I tried IntelliJ IDEA though recently and it was really quite nice - definitely made J2EE development significantly easier.
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Sun and IBM should join forces and concentrate on "THE ONE" java IDE. I feel this is the only way they will beat MS Visual Studio (which is rapidly becoming the bigger MS monster than XP/Vista OS)
Sure SWT is quicker in some situations and Eclipse has some amazing plugins, but Netbeans has closed the gap on those things and is so far ahead on many more (profiler, handheld development, code completion, Matissee GUI builder..)
IBM needs to eat crow and realise that SUN is not worth eclipsi
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While we're at it, KDE and GNOME should join forces and concentrate on "THE ONE" desktop for Linux...
Sarcasm aside, I like the idea of two IDE's targeting different tastes.
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blazing new ground here, man (Score:2, Insightful)
* Textmate [macromates.com] / Netbeans [netbeans.org]
* Ruby [ruby-lang.org] (Rails [rubyonrails.org] or Merb [devjavu.com] for web programming)
* SVN or Git for source control
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Eclipse. C++. CVS.
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Re:blazing new ground here, man (Score:4, Funny)
Re:blazing new ground here, man (Score:5, Insightful)
Some of us pick our tools according to the product we want to make, not according to what's hip and ultra cool right now.
PS: Thanks for comparing Eclipse with Textmate. Made my day.
apples and oranges (Score:4, Informative)
the only people that complain about java are ones who have never bothered to learn it past the simple hello world application. take away
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Netbeans pales in comparison to Eclipse in terms of performance and expandability. Its almost impossible to tailor their build.xml files because they include so much generated crap (particularly if you are developing GUI applications).
You've never used Eclipse, have you? Eclipse's generated ANT scripts are even worse, requiring build scripts that are internal to Eclipse and tasks that only exist while Eclipse is running. This makes building them from the command line impossible.
But worse than that, Eclipse doesn't even generate these build files automatically. Instead it just compiles the code on its own without ever creating any build script. If you want a build script, you have to "export" the project.
but when it comes to stability, portability, strong type checking, etc java blows ruby out of the water.
Strong type checking? You r
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I've been a programming teacher, forced to teach Java because that's what the university had decided on (ugh). I daresay I know it a good bit beyond "hello world". I still think it's an awful programming language. In my view, the only reason it's popular is because despite all its faults, it's better than C++, and it now has a significant footprint because it was created long bef
Would you write google.com in java? (Score:2)
I cannot see the backend of google ever going java.
But each tech to his own, and not all solutions are 10m+ client jobs. The number one thing thats important is total cost of job, which includes
a lot of time for programming, and if that programming is shorter the better, up until a point where it wont scale and you either need a 100000 server farm, or
go to C/C++. (a true C++ expert can write safe/fast/easy to
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My teams (where I work now, where I worked before for the past 10 years,) have gone from C/C++, Perl, CGI scripts, ASP, VSS, COM/DCOM to Java, CVS, SQL, Eclipse, Struts and now they are supporting the existing apps, writing the new apps
Re:blazing new ground here, man (Score:5, Informative)
Read through this extensive feature review [lifeonrails.org] and try not to drool - Ruby/Rails tooling is really starting to move forward
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Now, if anybody could point me to a git or darcs plugin...
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The latter is simply far far better, aside from one thing - Subclipse puts a nice dark * on the file icon to show altered files, whereas Subversive just precedes the filename with a > and that's far more difficult to spot.
Then change it to use the asterisk. It's open source after all, you've got the code! Sorry, I had to. It's actually already an option. Go to Preferences, Team, SVN, Label Decorations, select the Icon Decorations tab, and check Outgoing Changes.
Then, if you want, switch back to the Text Decorations tab and remove the Outgoing Change Flag so that the asterisk is the only indication the file was added.
You can do this for Eclipse's CVS support too. Subversive is designed to mirror its UI in many ways.
joking right? (Score:1)
Is it April 1st yet? Jesus...
I'm curious why this is being pushed... (Score:5, Interesting)
My question is anyone have an earthly idea why eclipse is being pushed so much?
From what i've tried, there are other IDEs that are more widely used/accepted as efficient IDEs, and others that i just plain work faster in and are less full of clutter. So did eclipse use to be some industry standard at a forbes 500 or do they have marketing trolls or what?
-Confused Student
Re:I'm curious why this is being pushed... (Score:5, Funny)
Prolonged use of Eclipse causes brain tumors, which release mind control substances, which make you want to convert others to using Eclipse. It's like in Invasion of the Body-Snatchers, only I as far as I know no alien invaders are involved.
Seriously, I think
Another question: why does everyone assume you need an IDE, even for simple lab assignments?
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Damn, pressed the wrong button.
But I am shocked to find this thinking in a CS department -- back when I was a CS major, noone gave a shit what text editors we used, and we were expected not to need help learning them. Some teachers would probably have accepted hand-written programs.
Re:I'm curious why this is being pushed... (Score:5, Insightful)
Just a wild guess: Because there's too many CS and IT graduates who don't know how their favorite magical IDE works under the hood. They think it's über-complicated and scary to do development in a terminal using emacs/vi/nano and make/gcc/etc. Some of them have graduate degrees, and some of them teach.
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My favorite IDE for java development is XCode (when I have the pleasure of using a Mac), though I guess I like Eclipse just fine. Every time I change employers, there's a new Java IDE that's "everyone's favorite" (ie. the one mgt pays for). Oracle JDeveloper, NetBeans, now, IntelliJ.
Oh yeah, and BlueJ sucks ass.
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Oh I'm not saying it should be taboo to use an IDE. I've used them quite a lot, and they can be real time-savers in a lot of cases. What I'm saying is that you're doing students a disse
Re:I'm curious why this is being pushed... (Score:5, Insightful)
as a java dev, i can tell you my favourite feature of eclipse: no hidden magic.
all the concepts are the same once you have the ide up and running: you tell the compliler part of the ide where your source directories are, you point it at the libraries that you want to include on the build classpath, and it just compiles them into a directory.
change a file, it auto-compiles and spits the
then theres the added niceties of a really easy to use debugger, as well as the hot code-replace which lets you hit a break point mid way through a method, change some code _while the debugger is still running_, have it pop the stack back to the top of that method and step through the new code that you've just fixed.
try doing that with vim!
and of course all the readily available plugins to extend the function of the ide, a really clean UI, and make it completely free, and there you have it. when i was a boy, it was all Makefiles in each package directory hand crafted with a master Makefile descending into each subdirectory to complete a build. *shudders with the memory*
other ides, while also providing at least the bulk of the above, often tend to do things with hidden side files ( all of them have their own project metadata files ), or just 'automagically' do things for the user, but often this is to the detriment of not letting the developer understand what is happening as they write up their code.
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I can believe other IDEs are worse (I have only used/tried to avoid using Visual Studio 6), but surely Eclipse keeps some project metadata in files, too? For those of us who want freedom to choose non-Eclipse tools, this is bad enough.
The perfect IDE would read all its project-wide metadata fr
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It's perfectly possible to use several IDEs in one team. For example, most of my team prefer IntelliJ IDEA, but some use Eclipse.
Also, you can use Maven (http://maven.apache.org/) and autogenerate Eclipse
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Unfortunately in the employment world too people 'above' you make decisions without apparent merit and you're stuck with them.
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Anyway, I use Eclipse for a few reasons. First of all, it's really flexible so I can go in and change a whole lot of setting which are then saved to my workspace. Then I can keep this workspace on a USB flash drive or something and use it on my laptop, desktop, friend's desktop, or any of the PCs at school and it'll load up the exact UI settings and the same working environment I was using before. Beyond that, Ecl
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3) Lots of Companies (ie Not IBM) are writing plugins for Eclipse AND/OR basing their product on the Eclipse framework.
doing the last part of the above actually saves them a huge amount of time and money in bringing a product to market.
I was taking part in the Software Freedom day last weekend and one of the visitors to out stand was a CS student. He was writing Eclipse an plug-in as part of his course. This is far more useful than the sort of silly prog I w
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Oh, really? You looked up the standard, and javac was right and Netbeans was wrong? Or, you just assumed that was the case and are talking out of an orifice not your mouth?
> (2) Eclipse refactoring pretty much takes the cake. No one else even comes close.
And you need this for intro-level assignments
> (3) If you know how to use Ec
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Well, it works great (Score:4, Interesting)
And pretty mostly, while I've relearnt Java (from a lapse of 8 years) and got to grips with all the cool and new stuff (like Hibernate, JUnit, Swing, Ant, JBoss etc), I've been able to run the tutorials I've found without too much tweaking.
Now, I'm not a great coder, but getting the pieces to work (like all mentioned above, plus things like Derby) hasn't been a big drama. The cross-platform dream really works! The book I bought, "eclipse Web Tools Platform" published by Addison Wesley (which I highly recommend), isn't focussed on Eclipse Development using a Mac. The examples and diagrams are all Windows looking - BUT I can follow them on my Mac, and get the same results.
I can't compare Eclipse to anything else, but it's doing the job.
PS I'm actually more a Perl programmer - so I thought I'd search for a Perl plugin. Well, there is! EPIC. Easy install (like the other plugins for Eclipse I've grabbed), and so I can do Perl in Eclipse too.
And finally, after reading the foreword in the above mentioned book, I like the philosophy of the whole Eclipse project. It's a worthy project to support - regardless of what platform you use and favour.
Go Eclipse! And Thanks to all the people who're making it happen!
Eclipse is NOT new on Mac OS X (Score:3, Insightful)
Duh! (Score:4, Informative)
what nonsense (Score:3, Informative)
1) it still does not support java 1.6 because Apple chooses to bundle new Java versions with new OS versions instead of distributing them separately like the rest of the world does. In practice that means there's up to 1 year or longer (as in this case) before new Java versions find their way onto the Mac.
2) sun does not directly support Mac OS X but leaves the job of porting to Apple, unlike linux, windows and solaris which it does support.
3) If you want to use Sun's OSS Java version on the Mac, you are on your own and will just have to come up with the native mac specific stuff yourself.
4) eclipse has a long history of compatibility issues with Apple's Mac OS X UI Java bindings in their native code for SWT (i.e. this is a C portability issue, not a Java portability issue). It sort of works now but is not quite ideal.
If all of the above is acceptable to you, by all means use a mac for Java development. For me, all of these are unacceptable because I require early access to new Java stuff.
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The reason I can't use a Mac is that
1) it still does not support java 1.6 because Apple chooses to bundle new Java versions with new OS versions instead of distributing them separately like the rest of the world does. In practice that means there's up to 1 year or longer (as in this case) before new Java versions find their way onto the Mac.
Thas wrong, you can download Java 6 from "http://developers.apple.com"
4) eclipse has a long history of compatibility issues with Apple's Mac OS X UI Java bindings in the
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Openjdk.net does not provide mac os X builds so don't hope too much. As far as I know there is no work going on for an open source replacement for the closed source a
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Advice: cut down the aggression.
Eclipse does indeed include its own JVM. Easily shown - go to the robocode sourceforge project and try running it with OS X's JVM. Fails on the vast majority of 10.4.10 Macs - AWT Exception, which is actually buried away in the Apple native code (plenty of example of this error scattered around the web, seems related to graphic driver as it doesn't occur on absolutely every machine). Now try running it under Eclipse - works.
OpenJDK do
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Maybe eclipse also puts some replacements for core classes on the boot classpath.
Good to know somebody is working on openjdk on Mac.
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Eclipse 3.3 for Solaris [eclipse.org]
Cross-platform not easy until user libraries fixed (Score:2)
Summary: just about everything in Eclipse can be referenced using workspace or project-relative environment variables. For example, ${project_loc:myProject}/libs could be c:\workspace\myProject\libs on one person's machine, or $home/eclipse/workspaces/this_workspace/myProject/libs on another machine. No problem.
Except for user libraries.
Unique in Eclipse, user libraries (a c
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But that's exactly the point - it means your workspace isn't cross-platform and depends on external factors. When Eclipse themselves already have a mechanism for defining cross-platform variables (${project_loc:something etc.) introducing a second system for achieving the same results can' be considered a good thing.
I actually agree with yo
Ho hum (Score:2)
No such luck.
On other platforms, I use Eclipse extensivey: I don't write Java apps, but there's lots that Eclipse can do, and on Windows it's easily the best all-round IDE. On the Mac, it just feels ugly and klunky-I end up sticking with Xcode for managing the projects and TextMate for editing.
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So you use Eclipse on other platforms with no issue? And Eclipse itself looks the same on the Mac as it does on other platforms?
But you can't use it on the Mac because it clashes with the rest of OSX and looks ugly. Have you consi
Caught in a time warp? (Score:3, Insightful)
Did this story get caught in a time warp, or is the poster simply an Eclipse shill (and not a particularly good one)?
Eclipse has worked for years on OS X. So, for that matter, has NetBeans. They're both cross-platform and always have been.
Hopefully Eclipse devs learn something from Apple (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, just like the Microsoft Mac team, Eclipse devs could learn a lot from the Mac, I think this will be a good step for them.
Re:Hopefully Eclipse devs learn something from App (Score:2)
ECLIPSE ADVERTISEMENT? (Score:2, Insightful)
Still confused ... (Score:2)
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If however, you're a small ISV making corporate solutions, and have at most 4-5 customers... well, being able to add just ONE
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Eclipse will lose to NetBeans on OS X (Score:2, Informative)
In fact, the only reason Carbon exists at all on OS X is because Adobe and other third party developers were too cheap to port their apps to OS X, so Apple had to guarantee backward compatibility for old apps.
Also, more NetBeans is better supported on OS X that Eclipse because more of the developers working on NetBea
Ported ????? (Score:5, Insightful)
Now admittedly I am not a Java Programmer, I am however a programmer, and as I understood Java's ENTIRE purpose in life it was to be a "Build it once, run it everywhere a JVM existed" environment where no platform dependencies existed.
There was no porting of your applications, there was simply copy it over there and it just ran. Things like SWING, AWT or whatever they call the framework this week, made sure that a java call for say an "About Box" was translated the the native UI engine for whatever platform it was running on. The programmer didn't have to even think about it, just call it.
So WHY does anything written in Java have to be "Ported"? It is because, at least in my opinion, Java has failed miserably at the most promising goal it aspired to.
Most Java apps are reasonably well behaved, the performance of most, well the best that can be said is that it is adequate but they just gulp resources like no tomorrow.
One day I will re-visit Java and see if it is any closer to its vaunted goal, but for today, it is at best "OK" for doing non GUI server side stuff, but for real GUI applications where the user experience really sells the application, I will stick with other tools that truly understand the notion for X-Platform.
Eclipse RCP is a poor choice for Mac Applications (Score:2, Interesting)
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Actually this may something to do with plugin architecture than actual performance.
At work I get pummeled with vendors trying to sell me their latest and greatest RTOS (realtime operating system). An overwhelming majority of these vendors have a customized IDE (based on Eclipse) that is included in their dev
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The Anonymous Coward made a valid point, and I just wanted to bump it up from 0.
I think the problem is more from a cluttered webpage than the actual product itself.