Shaolin Monks May Sue Over Tale of Defeat by Ninja 284
Socguy writes "A unique story on the CBC website details an even more unusual conflict. A Chinese Shaolin temple has demanded an apology from 'an Internet user who claimed a Japanese ninja beat its kung fu-practicing monks in a showdown.' A letter from the members of the temple, posted on the Internet on Thursday, denied the fight ever took place and called on the person who posted the claim under the name "Five minutes every day" to apologize to the temple's martial arts masters. Monks from the temple, which is located in the Songshan Mountain region of the Henan province, said they will consider legal action if he or she doesn't make a public apology."
Someone (Score:5, Funny)
Someone just won at Internet trolling.
Hear that, Slashdot trolls? When you get written up by Reuters, that's when you've arrived.
Re:Someone (Score:5, Funny)
The case (Score:5, Funny)
"I'm sorry but theres only one possible answer to all this"
Ninjas descend from ceiling and take a stance.
"Round one! FIGHT!"
[Much later]
And then, just as it seemed the fighting would come to a conclusion, a ship flying a skull and cross bones moored at the local pier...
In the words of Judge Kozinski... (Score:4, Funny)
"The parties are advised to chill."
On the other hand, Buddhist monks spend a decent amount of their studies on the subject of humor, so maybe this is simply the single greatest cultural practical joke ever perpetrated...a Zen masterpiece.
Wouldn't happen that way (Score:4, Interesting)
What happened with a Ninja, you would simply be found dead the next morning. Or perhaps never found. That was a successful Ninja. I train in a Japanese system based on fighting styles used in the 15th and 16th century and just for fun, we'll try a few simple techniques that are/were attributed to Ninjas. Now I suspect there really were never Ninjas, but I'll play along for 2 hours to have some fun.
Typical is that as you walk by somebody (opposite way), if you grab their arm and yank straight down, they will fall. It seems like it shouldn't work, but it does. And it only works if the person doesn't expect it. If you fall backwards quickly like that, you'll be stunned for a second or two. If the attacker has a knife, you could be dead within seconds. That's (to me) the essence of Ninja stuff. Quiet, and striking when your guard is down, and then they're gone.
Again, I think it's a lot of B.S. but I think the Ninja myth is to Japan what the Cowboy myth is to the U.S. or what the King Arthur myth is to England.
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Seems more like a mall ninja tactic, what you describe.
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I remember learning about ninjas some 30 years ago when I heard the story of one who hid in an outhouse covered in shit for hours. It didn't inspire me to become an evil ninja or kill people, but I do strive to be a piping design ninja.
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The idea of a ninja posing as a good Samaritan with his face exposed in public, not to mention in broad daylight is a good one, though.
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My theoretical situation would create enough confusion for the bad guy to walk away, possibly feigning shock or pretending to be looking for a police man or medic. Then again, maybe I've seen too many action movies.
Again, just theory: this is why cops at a "hot" scene want everyone to stop and take even the innocent into custody;
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Re:Wouldn't happen that way (Score:5, Interesting)
And just like the cowboy myth, and probably Arthurian legend, there is some historical basis for the ninja legend as well. I have studied (in an informal manner) feudal Japanese samurai culture, and run across some material related to ninja. Ninja basically began as traditional samurai that operated outside the code of Bushido in order to defeat their enemy. One almost certainly apocryphal story I ran across related the origin of "ninja" as follows:
It was considered a great honor for a samurai in an army attacking a city to be the first one across the city walls. In order to be able to claim the honor of being the first across the walls when battle began, a couple of bright lads got the idea to sneak into the city the night before! It became a short step from there to sneaking inside a city before battle to plant units that would spring up behind a city's defenses, assassinate enemy leaders before battle began, etc. Eventually, a few groups or even clans became willing to hire themselves out to perform such "dishonorable" actions, which naturally became more sophisticated as the "ninjas" gained experience in this type of warfare. But just like any other criminal organization, they didn't exactly advertise; this secrecy is probably what began the myth of the ninja, which was then exaggerated by the clans themselves as a form of PR. But I don't think there is any real consensus on the origin, or even exact role, of the ninja in Japanese society. The very nature of the myth itself makes it difficult to disprove. "The fact that you know nothing about this secret society of invisible assassins merely proves how good they really were!"
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The cowboy myth's are easy to discuss because there are people alive today who remember meeting cowboys. This is completely different than so called ninjas and Arthurian knights who supposedly existed hundreds of years ago and often had mythic powers.
I have studied (in an informal manner) feudal Japanese samurai culture,
And that is why you don't really know what you are talking about. N
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When you get written up by Reuters, that's when you've arrived.
Hehe. And 2 weeks ago, another wacky Slashprank [dhnet.be] was [votrejournal.be] all [lalibre.be] over [lequotidiendenamur.be] Belgium's [feedbooster.net] press [7sur7.be] and TV [alinfini.be].
(Yep, even TV. And yep, they even did showed that glaring goatse on screen. Pixelated, but still clearly recognizable...)
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I bet he is a pirate.
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In addition... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:In addition... (Score:5, Funny)
Allesged Ninja has started training to master the One-point forearm indestructible defensive shield of Heavenly protection technique to counter the five-point palm exploding heart technique attack!
Pirates have issued an official statement claiming "they will still manage to get both of the other parties, although they are not sure about the role of monks in the conflict! Arrrrr!"
Re:In addition... (Score:5, Funny)
Shaolin monks don't know the five point palm exploding heart technique, which is why Pai Mei was able to use it to massacre a Shaolin temple. Only Pai Mei knows the technique and he teaches it to no one. That is, except...
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Better way to get the apology... (Score:2)
Re:Better way to get the apology... (Score:4, Funny)
Rest assured that if the internet posting was about a *LAWYER* singlehandedly defeating and laying waste to all of the shaolin temple, there would be no refutal at all!
A lawyer would simply get end up showing prior art and a patent-in-progress filed on all of their techniques and get an injunction against the shaolin monks practicing their kung-fu!
Fear the deadly powers of a *LAWYER*!!!
Re:Better way to get the apology... (Score:4, Funny)
Fear the monkeys!
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BEARS!
*runs away*
Re:Better way to get the apology... (Score:5, Funny)
Remember:
FACT - laywers are mammals
FACT - laywers totally flip out all the time
Shaolin Lawyers made my eyes explode (Score:2)
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Even Shaolin Monks have to be scared of something.
Shaolin Lawyer (Score:2)
The Year is 2007 (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:The Year is 2007 (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:The Year is 2007 (Score:4, Funny)
Of course it's untrue. (Score:5, Funny)
This is just a cover story to draw attention away from the fact that several Shaolin Temples, were in fact, recently plundered by pirates.
Pirates rule.
Re:Of course it's untrue. (Score:5, Funny)
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Pirates (Score:4, Funny)
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just a warning to others (Score:5, Funny)
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Two Chuck Norris' dueling it out, with each performing a roundhouse kick that will no doubt, compact the entirety of the universe into a singularity?
Next time... (Score:5, Funny)
2. Post on YouTube
3. Have Large TV network steal it
4. Post that on YouTube
5. Get sued by TV network
6. Now you are a Pirate and can surely kick Ninja ass...
7. Profit (if you win the lawsuit).
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Silly rabbit, this is America, the obligatory 'Profit' is only won by the lawyers themselves.
I *so* have this one: (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I *so* have this one: (Score:5, Funny)
The beast at Tenagra.
Stallman, with the hippy hair and the odor at Tenagra.
The Beast and Ballmer and Stallman at Tenagra.
Ballmer in the stomach.
The Beast and Stallman on the Ocean.
Re:I *so* have this one: (Score:5, Funny)
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What makes them look like bigger idiots? (Score:2)
2. Suing someone for posting on the internet
Nuff said!
Some facts about Ninjas (Score:5, Funny)
Facts:
1. Ninjas are mammals.
2. Ninjas fight ALL the time.
3. The purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people.
Especially note 3 above. The Ninjas probably just went to the Shaolin Temple to talk about tea n shit, and then they just totally flipped out and killed all the monks.
Anyway, here is some more things about Ninjas.
Q: Why is everyone so obsessed about ninjas?
A: Ninjas are the ultimate paradox. On the one hand they don't give a crap, but on the other hand, ninjas are very careful and precise.
Q: I heard that ninjas are always cruel or mean. What's their problem?
A: Whoever told you that is a total liar. Just like other mammals, ninjas can be mean OR totally awesome.
Q: What do ninjas do when they're not cutting off heads or flipping out?
A: Most of their free time is spent flying, but sometime they stab. (Ask Mark if you don't believe me.)
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Luckily, my computer has paradox-absorbing crumple zones.
I'd hate to be "Five Minutes a Day" (Score:5, Funny)
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Solution: Announce to both parties that you will be retracting your statement at a specific place and time. When they show up, you will not be there, but your statement will be read by a lawyer, who will bow out of the situation, and pick up the pieces after the ensuing Rumble, Eastern-Style(TM).
Just be sure to keep the meeting place secret from pirates, zombies, and vampires, or no one will be able to sort out the rumble rules.
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Oh yeah, that means make sure the lawyer doesn't tell any of his colleagues.
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why not ask a ninja? (Score:2, Funny)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehQo7s_02sc [youtube.com]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEmss2lg-ug [youtube.com]
Not invincible (Score:2)
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Use what's available, have the element of surprise on your side, kill without being seen, and get out safely. Sure sounds like a sniper to me. With that sentiment coming largely from someone who is highly trained in Kung Fu, has a few high caliber rifles, and some
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One grappler versus one monk = grappler wins.
Equal number of grapplers versus monks = grapplers win.
Grapplers outnumber monks = grapplers win.
Monks outnumber grapplers = monks win.
Weapons versus no weapons = weapons win...
Best combo: grapplers with bayonet/assault rifle.
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Or: Chuck Norris with a M16.
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Pfft. Just give Chuck Norris M16 rounds.
Re:Not invincible (Score:5, Informative)
As an example - a friend of mine is an assistant Kung Fu trainer. His Sifu has somewhere around 20 generations of Shaolin Kung Fu training behind him (as well as a style of Kung Fu that his great-great-great-great-etc. etc.-grandfather created). He started training basically as soon as he could stand, and studied under Bruce Lee for some time.
Get in a ring with him, and he'll destroy you - but you'll still walk away. Bruised, battered, and damn near ripped limb from limb, most likely wishing you had never even considered the fight, but you'll walk away in one piece. Someone who didn't know of his training tried mugging him - pulling a knife on him. By the time his attacker hit the ground he had 3 broken ribs, a fractured skull, a broken jaw, a broken leg, and an arm broken in three places (if I'm recalling correctly. I may have mixed up an arm broken in 3 places for a leg broken in 3, but the injuries are in general accurate). That was his measured response to assure that he was no longer in any sort of danger, the man could have been dead before his body dropped.
It's very hard to judge the effectiveness of one fighting style versus another unless you're looking at two people who are really out for blood.
Competition destroys martial arts. (Score:5, Insightful)
However, the last hundred years many of them have turned into sports. You are no longer allowed to gouge out your opponent's eyes, fishhook their mouths or attack other dangerous points like the neck, throat, groin, back or stamp on them on the ground. Instead you score points, playing tag in the ring. This pretty much leaves you with punches and kicks. The original techniques that are encoded into the forms or kata are either hidden, forgotten or simply not trained.
Now, the concept that karate and Kung-fu are purely striking systems is utter, utter bollocks. The forms and kata of both systems have joint locks, chokes, strangles, throws, gouges built in for all to see, if you know what you're looking at. Yes, much of which can be used on the ground. You just have to recognise them and practise. Ju-jitsu originally had a fair level of striking in it as well.
If you're practising karate, kung-fu purely as a striking system then what you are practising is kickboxing, not karate, not kung-fu. Practising ju-jitsu without kicks and punches it's not ju-jitsu.
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These days, discounting war zones and Brazilian slums where even the Gracies wouldn't go, the only people who get to train at all are the ones who do so under rules designed to prevent death and serious injury. A technique that isn't practiced and polished in actual use is worthless, so the professio
Re:Competition destroys martial arts. (Score:4, Insightful)
Now we have that out of the way, I agree, the more realistic the training the better the practitioner will perform. Hence things like "Animal Day [summersdale.com]". And other forms of non compliant training.
1. Butting with the head.
2. Eye gouging of any kind.
3. Biting.
4. Hair pulling.
5. Fish hooking.
6. Groin attacks of any kind.
7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
8. Small joint manipulation.
9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
13. Grabbing the clavicle.
14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
I'll stop quoting the UFC rules here, because it reads like a list of the "vital points" that a martial artist who's training for self defence will attack given the slightest opportunity. Eyes, throat, groin, my first three targets. And it isn't just me. Have a look at the Bubishi, hundreds of years old and they were aiming at the same targets then. Yes, I bite, gouge, fish hook, I strike down using my elbow with my full body weight and power on ribs, backs, necks, just anything I can reach.
As you should too if you want to defend yourself.
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That's exactly my point. You've never broken a neck. You can't break a neck. You only know of some techniques that, if you had the chance to practice them, would probably result in applicable skill at breaking people's necks. By imposing rules about techniques, sport martial arts allow people to be unrestrained in the amount of speed and power they employ. You're right, it's still a c
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N
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Re:Not invincible (Score:5, Informative)
Uechi-Ryu Karate (hard style, Japanese)
Kick Boxing
Hwa Rang Do (koren, has your normal stuff + pressure points, grappling, weapons)
5 years as a bouncer
Aikido
And a few other styles I did has my travels took me everywhere..
Grappling in a 1v1 controlled situation is VERY strong. If I faced the grappler the odds are I would lose, why? Because a lot of my moves are fingers to the eyes, strikes to the throat, kicks to knees, groin, palm strikes to the chins to snap the neck, etc. A normal response is well ya you are trying to have 2 guys fight not kill each other. Which is the point.
In a UFC type style competition they don't train to really defend themselves in the same as other styles. The rules are designed to favor those training just to compete in UFC.
As an ex bouncer of 5 years at a college bar (300+ people a night) if you grappled someone in real life you'd be dead. Got on top of someone and their friends WILL club you with bottles, or kick your head, stabbed, etc. I did see one guy grapple someone and see the guys friend pick up a chair and smash.
Grapple someone and land on the shitty floor on glass, cement, etc. you are very likely to hurt yourself also. Grappling also requires some room to mover and shot in. You don't have that in a crowded bar. You don't need room to take your fingers and jab it into someone's throat.
This isn't to put down grappling people. They are very strong, fit, skilled, etc. From my experience in the real world grappling is not what you want to use.
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Ai yai yai. One of those YouTube arguments again? Shaolin Kung Fu is a "Martial" art. It was designed for the battle field (albeit in a firearm free era). There have been historical instances where the monks used their art to fight entire army (shaolin temple was destroyed when the army was not happy with the outcome of the first match and declared a rematch - without telling the monks first) and yes, pirate
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Some were, but there are important traditions in the martial arts that developed for use by people without weapons (though often against opponents with weapons). One motivation for this was that in Japan commoners were forbidden to possess most weapons. The very word karate literally means "empty hands", that is, no weapons. (Compare karaoke "empty orchestra".)
What makes you think kung fu has no grappling? (Score:2)
Real kung fu isn't what you see on TV or on the movies. That is ballet or gymnastics. Real kung fu is up close, personal and brutal.
The reason they aren't on UFC, it's American, and most of the American kung-fu practitioners have no clue what the movements they're practising really mean.
ninja's "calling out" shaolin monks? (Score:5, Interesting)
As for the past - why would a ninja be so stupid as to fight in a tournament? The way a ninja fights is not in the open - they sneak and kill in secret, and only fight hand-to-hand when there is no alternative.
Would a ninja beat an entire group of shaolin monks? You bet. Wait for them to go to sleep, then pick them off one by one. Easy as pie.
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Robert? (Score:2)
In Related News (Score:2)
This is Barry (the Tick) reporting.
Well at least its Shaolin Monks... (Score:2)
You might not be able to beat a Shaolin Master, but at least you will be likely to see them first
Bullshit (Score:2, Insightful)
Even if there is some truth to this, there's something else going on in the background, I seriously doubt any self-respecting monk would bother suing over some online comment. It doesn't make sense to me.
Ah, Grasshopper ... (Score:3, Funny)
I wonder what kind of process server Shaolin monks would use to serve notice to a ninja? I seems this might be the basis for a TV sitcom, with each episode having the hapless process server falling back to devise a new approach to sneak up on the ninja and serve the papers.
Humour (Score:2)
England used to be pretty good (Monty Python) but I think America has taken the lead unintentionally via Bushisms.
Now please slap me with a fish.
so what if we dont give a hoot (Score:2, Interesting)
A Koga region ninja could very easily beat a shaolin monk , but might have problems with a white crane kung-fu master....why, diff. styles
I'd sue too (Score:2)
Legal action? (Score:2)
Just think about it -- Shaolin monks gone Mafia -- "I hear you said bad things about us, (beatings) that's not going to happen again, (more beatings) is it?"
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Besides the secret-keeping, it's very hard to "document" martial arts. Most of them involve very complex movements that can not be properly represented in 2D drawings, pictures or text. Even though there are books about the western variants of the Asian martial arts, it's impossible to learn them by reading at home.
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That said, another thing about training by fighting with people who don't hold back much is you probably got tougher - bones, joints, tendons, skin etc. Well except when things break (like your back muscle)
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You cannot learn them at home alone, though. Many things -- like sticky hand practice -- require a partner.
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Ok, so you're telling me that I can give you a book about a fighting style you don't know yet and let you read it, and after you're done with it, you're equivalent to the dan level of the writer?
Even when shown in full motion and 3D, I haven't met anybody who was able to reproduce the techniques perfectly without some kind of feedback given by a dan master, and I've seen a few hundred of those freshmen in recent years.
Re: Transmission of Heritage (Score:2)
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I prefer to think that most concepts are served well by medium level documentation to consisting of a presentation and a FAQ. When a student does this basic homework beforehand, it means his questions to the Master become more intelligent.
Yup. Most Karate is junk (Score:2)
The result is that most of the transmission has been oral
Kata are physical. However yes. Many of the techniques are now "hidden" in the kata, with very few people knowing what's really going on.
The other complication is that most martial artists never fight real fights. (Point sparring doesn't count.) It is possible to spend years working on a given martial art and then discover that it is absolutely ineffective against the average street punk.
Indeed. Over the last few decades, the training has been largely sports based. Playing tag in the ring. The original self defence training which was practised has largely been forgotten... Hell, most black belts don't even know what hikite is for and many have never performed a throw.
However. There's a definite realisation of the problem and move back to reality training