Thin Client PC Fits in Wall Socket 205
ukhackster writes "Last year, there was a lot of excitement about a cut-down PC that fitted into a wall socket. Next month, the Jack PC will go on sale in the UK for just £209 ($390)." From the article: "At a low price and using low power, MacLellan believes the device is 'one of the biggest developments in PCs that we have seen' and is one of the 'ever-growing range of thin clients, which are rapidly replacing PCs as a more effective desktop computing solution for modern businesses'. The Jack PC runs Windows CE, is designed to connect to 'any terminal server-based environment' and has Citrix ICA and Microsoft RDP clients built in. It runs Internet Explorer 6.0 to connect to Web-driven applications, and runs an 'up to 500MHz' AMD RISC processor, which the company says is equivalent to a 1.2GHz x86. It can come with up to 64MB of flash memory and 128MB RAM."
Hard to see without vision enhancement (Score:2, Funny)
If it fits in a wall jack... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:If it fits in a wall jack... (Score:3, Insightful)
Power over ethernet allows use of normally unused wires on your standard CAT5 cabling to supply power for devices like this.
Re:If it fits in a wall jack... (Score:2)
Re:If it fits in a wall jack... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:If it fits in a wall jack... (Score:2)
If you're getting system power over ethernet, I guess the 5VDC is to power those hungry USB peripherals.
Optional (Score:3, Informative)
"DC Power Jack for wall-mounted power supply, when no PoE is available and the device is to be powered externally"
They probably added this because the brochure shows how the Jack can be installed into furniture(desks), floors, or walls. It does seem funny at first glance though. Especially if you imagine patching together an outlet and a Jack that are next to eachother.
Re:If it fits in a wall jack... (Score:5, Informative)
It can run on PoE (Power over Ethernet) or on a 5V DC adaptor.
Though it would be nice if you could have a unit in a double-wallbox form that had a PSU you could directly wire to the mains.
hate to reply to my own post, but parent is right (Score:2)
It turns out it's not a 'standard' wallbox but a proprietary wallbox system, which should, I'd have thought, had a AC/DC bus of some decent capacity (not POE) built in!
Re:If it fits in a wall jack... (Score:2)
http://www.zdnet.co.uk/i/z/nw/illo/story-graphics
http://www.tradekey.com/product_view/id/59861.htm [tradekey.com]
what would this be used for? (Score:4, Insightful)
This is an interesting device, but:
advantages:
disadvantages:
I can't quite figure where this product fits. I'm guessing it's more of a business solution, but if that's true, I can't imagine it in any of the business settings I've experienced.
It's kind of cool technology, but is it a solution in search of a problem?
Re:what would this be used for? (Score:2)
Re:what would this be used for? (Score:3, Insightful)
I think you've really identified the issue here. It's got fanstastic "wow" power, but when you sit down to figure out where it can/will be used, the applications seem so be pretty narrow in scope. I could see it as part of a POS system, or in a cube farm for non-technical types. It might have been a real contender if the server-terminal system popular 20-30 years ago hadn't devolved into a 2GHz machine on every desk. It might make
What about libraries or study areas? (Score:2)
I agree though that the price is a little steep.
Re:What about libraries or study areas? (Score:2)
Re:what would this be used for? (Score:2)
But with Power over Wireless, who's to stop anyone from stealing my electricity?
Guess we'll need WPA2/PoW. Although the advantages might be that more people might care about securing it, once they see their first electricity bill.
Re:what would this be used for? (Score:2)
Wireless power for very small electrical devices isn't that far fetched. Ever used a crystal radio? They were invented in 1906 or so.
Re:what would this be used for? (Score:3, Insightful)
Jokes aside, multiply the power consumption for the average PC by the number of employees and many of them obviously don't need much powerful CPUs, and anyway, the CPU power is on the terminal server and available if needed. So, this is a green solution to reduce electricity bill in many shops. And it's not to say this is a low
Re:what would this be used for? (Score:3, Interesting)
They will eat this stuff up. Check your email from the room, great for travelling families and folks who *don't* have laptops. Use the usb connection to send out pictures from the vacation, or update the iPod for the beach. Yes, they'd have a server, but they'll also charge you $10 a day to use their "pc". And being a thin client, no matter what porn or spyware you wade through, it can be set to toast everything on exit. Just nail the monitor to the desk and put a "fluid" resistant m
Re:what would this be used for? (Score:2)
When you consider that we're talking about "thin clients" here, and not even full-fledged c
Re:what would this be used for? (Score:4, Insightful)
For some environments, these are cheap enough to just scatter around the office. But even for locations that aren't, in most places workstations hardly move around. My workplace, for example, the same damn systems are in the same damn spots from 6 years ago.
# low powered processing
I don't need a lot of power. I have 3 apps I need to work ( two propriety dental apps, and ms office ). That's it. Not a whole lot of processing required.
# IE6
Again, most enviroments don't need workers going on the web for anything, so this is a moot point.
# limited standalone capability (designed to leverage Terminal Services)
This is actually a benefit..of sorts. A more centralized computer model is what we should have been moving to this entire time. Why do my clients need all this horsepower and harddrive space if they are just doing basic word processing?
Answer: No reason in the world. This is a far more efficient solution. Technical merits of Terminal Services notwithstanding.
# price (not really that inexpensive, no bargain over current desktop prices, but much less functionality)
Except what you end up paying for maintence in the long run. Fewer things to break, lower chance of breaking.
That alone makes this gold.
# video memory (max video memory is 8M)
# video resolution (max is 1600x1200)
Most industries, this doesn't matter worth beans. As long as the damn thing can display windows and a reasonable res ( 1280x1024 is the high range of reasonable ), then it's fine.
# expandability
My clients don't need expandability. They need reliability and simple.
Re:what would this be used for? (Score:2)
Only drawback as I see it is when the terminal server goes.. well terminal, everything grinds to a halt.
Re:what would this be used for? (Score:2)
This is what backup servers are for, if the machines are that critical to the operation of a business. Add to them same/next day service, and you are set. Where I work, we added next day service to every workstation (they are not that critical, as this is a college envirionment). We purchased 200+ machines with 17" LCD's -- the machine/monitor cost was under $1k (again, this included the next day servi
Re:what would this be used for? (Score:2)
Re:what would this be used for? (Score:2)
Re:what would this be used for? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:what would this be used for? (Score:2, Insightful)
It's sold as, "So, your getting more office space, your re-wireing it, and you use terminal services? This is the Box you want".
Think hotels (as others have said) any sort complete rewire situation.
Oh and the really nice part, they need a custom tool (supplied) to get them out, you can have your *own* personal tool if you are buying a lot.
Try steeling my PC's now! Yeah, the TFTs can still go, but the clients ar
Re:what would this be used for? (Score:4, Insightful)
-mobility: it can't be that difficult to move, and who cares anyway? it's meant to be install-and-forget. you don't upgrade/repair thin clients as often as PCs. that's the idea--they're appliances, not PCs.
-CPU: thin clients don't run much locally. that's the point. apps runs on the server. only the user interface stuff is done on the client (keyb, vid, mouse)
-OS: All WinCE has to to is run ICA and RDP, which it does just fine.
-IE6: Just have the users run mozilla in their terminal server session. problem solved.
-limited standalone capability is a feature, not a bug.
-price: not actually bad considering what you're getting.
-video memory: thin clients are not meant to be graphics workstations.
-resolution: 1600x1200 is (arguably) plenty for everyday office productivity use
-expansion: Most modern thin terminals support at least USB peripherals (scanners, flash memory, drives, etc) in concert with Terminal Services and Citrix; I don't see whu this one would be any different. Aside from occasional firmware updates, you don't change much on the client. You're not meant to.
No offense, but I'm continually amazed by the general ignorance of the intended application of thin clients. If it's as good as advertised, this box is a sweet thin client. Brain-dead installation, low cable mess factor, PoE ready, tiny footprint, low-power... it sounds almost too good to be true.
Re:what would this be used for? (Score:2)
To start, I would love to put one in my kitchen, provided that it is WiFi enabled (or if it is PoE and the Ethernet is still usable it would be the same) , imagine how cool would it be, to have one of this babies on each room at the side of your light socket.
And then, you would have a central server & database, with different applications, each one for a different room.
I believe this thing could certainly give a push to the automated house (brin
Re:what would this be used for? (Score:2)
Re:what would this be used for? (Score:2)
A flexible office with a bunch of Salesmen who plug in at any old available cube space.
A library college computer commons. They can not worry about CPU's being vandalized of walking off in the early hours
A convention center or hotel that has instant office space. They can just move the modular walls around to configure the required space and not worry about wire drops etc since the cable runs are built into the modular walls
Re:what would this be used for? (Score:2)
Re:what would this be used for? (Score:3, Informative)
1) Call centers
2) Telemarketing centers
3) Automotive shops (mecanics, etc) for parts lookup/ordering/word processessing/billing (terminal services)
4) Offices where workers are doing Word/Excell/etc (again, terminal services)
5) My situation where my laptop/docking station is used 90% (or more) for Word/Excel/Outlook and a commerci
Re:what would this be used for? (Score:2)
Thanks, yours has been the best and most comprehensive reply, very helpful.
I didn't mean to, but guess I did, imply "useless", I only listed what I saw from my perspective. You, and others, have salted me with some ideas, excellent.
Re:what would this be used for? (Score:2, Interesting)
Like, at your desk?
limited standalone capability (designed to leverage Terminal Services)
Well, yes. It is overtly a thin client. The cpu is really just a "cache" of computing power with the real computing power residing elsewhere. But that receptionist and bank of data entry people on the eigth floor are wasting the power of their PC anyway and still have to be connected to the central server to accomplish their jobs.
This isn't a box for progr
Re:what would this be used for? (Score:2)
If you haven't seen this before, it because you've only worked for companies where everybody has his own PC. I guess that's still the majority, but the trend
windows CE an advantage... (Score:2)
Much smaller than XPe (loads faster)
XPe is actually much harder to lockdown to just a kiosk and an RDP connection (as I've found out)
Re:what would this be used for? (Score:2)
Am I the only person who realizes this thing doesn't have moving parts?
First of all there's the reliability factor that this produces (moving parts are always first to break), but more importantly, it doesn't produce any noise. This is a completely quiet computer. That's a major advantage in my book. You don't realize how much the PC's hum annoys you until you work a while without it.
The introductory price is a bit too steep, but if i
Re:what would this be used for? (Score:2)
Re:what would this be used for? (Score:3, Interesting)
1. Centralized administration.. update software on the main server and your done = much lower administrative overhead. All thin clients offer same software offering.
2. If a thin client dies, within minutes you can swap it with another thin client and be back up and running (no extended downtime, reimaging, etc..).
3. Lower power consumption
4. Lower heat output
5. Centralized network-wide update
The obvious question: (Score:4, Insightful)
IOW, this is an interesting idea that will probably fail in all but a few niche applications - I wouldn't invest in the company. ;)
Re:The obvious question: (Score:2, Insightful)
Local storage is a bad thing. Local storage means office workers can put shit on the hard drive and the hard drive doesn't get backed up. I've worked in offices where they rely on local storage to keep all their files and it's administration hell. In my mind, the one really nice feature of thin-client networks like Citrix (and I _hate_ Citrix) is th
Re:The obvious question: (Score:2)
Re:The obvious question: (Score:5, Insightful)
At £20+ per sqft of space per month in your office lease, £200 to save 1 sqft is a pretty good deal.
Re:The obvious question: (Score:2)
Re:The obvious question: (Score:2)
You clearly don't work with Terminal Servers.If you have an office filled with Dells, you will require personell physically present to maintain these PCs, follow up and/or pay for support-contracts. Being physically there for someone having mail-problems and such is a waste or resourches.
With [a|some] Terminal server[s] you have typically less people managing the server, on a central point. Connecting clients cannot screw up as much
HomePlug (Score:2)
Wow (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Wow (Score:4, Funny)
Yeah, you'd be able to run spyware in parallel that way.
Good deal (Score:2)
Re:Good deal (Score:2)
How much??!! (Score:3, Informative)
So for a little more, I can get a tiny little box instead... wohoo!
But hold on, that box doesn't include monitor, keyboard, mouse, or operating system. Add those on and for a typical organisation running windows, these devices work out around £200 more than a regular PC. And that's before you even look at the costs of the server you need to run all the software.
Hmm... so right now I can replace a £200 PC if I spend about £600 per user on a thin client solution... and that will save me money how exactly?
Until somebody takes a brave leap of coming up with a simple design and mass producing these the prices simply aren't even nearly competative.
So, thanks, but no thanks.
Re:How much??!! (Score:3, Insightful)
What are your monthly electricity bills?
Re:How much??!! (Score:2)
I'm wondering.. how well does this actually scale. Seems to me that the real issue with Windows thin clients is the server side. Doesn't a single TS login take up pretty hefty resources? What kind of a server farm would you need to maintain to run, say, 100 TS/Citrix clients simutaneously?
-matthew
Re:How much??!! (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm calling bullshit on this. However, I'm happy to be corrected on this if someone can point me to a reputable company that'll sell a system with these specs for £200 (which is approximately $375 USD, according to Google).
But hold on, that box doesn't include monitor, keyboard, mouse, or operating syst
Re:How much??!! (Score:2)
1. As your current PC's need replacing, replace them one by one with one of these. Eventually, you're all switched over.
2. When you open a new office, start with these all around.
Replacing current macines still in service might not be the best way, but for attrition and additions, it might be.
Re:How much??!! (Score:2)
Do I understand correct: no network boot? (Score:3, Interesting)
Media centre or web server? (Score:2)
I wonder whether it could be viable to add enough extra flash memory to make one of these into a web server based on Linux? It would be the idea
Just what...? (Score:2)
Re:Just what...? (Score:2)
And $390 too expensive? Granted you guys in america get your stuff cheaper than we do here, but we usually hand over more than that for our standard workstations.
This solution would be less expensive in the long run, no need for extra security measures to make sure theives won't run off with the machine, no more "I know you said use the P:\ drive, but I used C:\ instead, and now everything is gone". On top of that alot less goofing off with solitaire etc. - granted that can be fixed in th
beep beep beep (Score:2, Insightful)
IE6? (Score:2)
Re:IE6? (Score:2, Informative)
but yes: Windows CE runs on MIPS (probably also ARM), as handhelds often don't use x86-chips.
RDP is great (Score:3, Informative)
BTW, IMO the TC mentioned is a bit pricey (but could be a great solution for the right need, is very cool and the wireless support is a serious bonus) since a standard (and still quite small) TC can be had on ebay for less then $50USD. As for CPU speed, rdp requires very, very little. Think Puppy Linux and rdesktop on a PI works fine. Thin clients are a blast to play with.
If they could just get the price below $200USD it would be great but for what it offers their price is somewhat reasonable.
Nice technology but... (Score:2)
queue "jack" jokes (Score:2)
Cooling? (Score:2)
Let's guess some numbers:
0.04 m^2 surface area (62 in^2 for the SI-challenged)
RSI = 2 (about R=11 in US)
Insulating plastic cover similar to foam
I get a 250 C rise. It must depend on either a clear wall cavity, or a lot of heat conduction through the cables.
bullshit (Score:2)
A PC is a personal computer - emphasis on computer. A thin client is a dumb terminal.
They even admitted that it's not a PC near the end of the article: "While the device itself consumes less power than a standard PC, users who want to run a range of applications will need to connect it to a server. This will raise the total power consumption."
And trust me, you do not want to work on a thinclient. I had to for a year while doing defense contracting. Every minut
Re:bullshit (Score:2)
No on a recent trip to Vegas, X forwarding was quite slow, but my home connection is limited to only 128K upload. So you ca
Link directly to the pdf (Score:2, Informative)
Troll & Offtopic (Score:2)
[offtopic]
And they want me to trust them when they bring an electronic voting machine, hopefully show me some code, maybe show me the inners of the machine and tell me "this is the code we run, trust us even if we have a past of lies and deception".
[/offtopic]
I would like to know one time for sure that I am just a paranoiac guy that tend to apply network security practices
And here we go... (Score:2)
(It was slow for me, anyway)
An interesting, yet inevitable, development (Score:2)
I imagine soon, everyday computing for most people will revolve around one or more I/O devices they have access to (mobile phones, TV's, terms in public spaces and cafes etc.)
CPU power, memory, bandwidth, storage and usage of applications will be provided by large network suppliers.
Nobody's going to stop you running and maintaining your own box, but most people
Moving to TS (Score:2)
Not small enough... (Score:2)
SAY GOODBYE TO YOUR CUBE WALLS (Score:2)
Time for office designers to realize that the 2 inches of wall between cubicles is low-hanging-fruit in the search for space.
Hope you like your coworkers, because you're going to be literally rubbing elbows with them from now on.
In-wall solutions are pricey (Score:2)
The "whole-house audio" stuff is extremely pricey, and usually depends on remote power (remember power for speakers is going to take more power than an itty-bitty WinCE device).
I can see devices like this serving as Media Connector boxes to serve music throughout my house... but it still needs an audio amp.
I ended up buying a SpeakerCraft SoundSource, a 50w CD player that sits in the wall... and needs a brick power supply plugged i
editors asleep again (Score:2)
Too expensive, limited (Score:2)
Sounds like it's kind of missing the mark.
Its barely a PC. Its more like a fancy PDA (Score:2)
Now, if it ran embedded linux in a way that let you update the firmware, it might be the basis for a really interesting brick computer.
Read carefully (Score:2)
That means that the entry level system includes less than 64MB of flash or less than 128MB of RAM or less of both. Given the price, this looks like a PC for suckers.
Re:Read carefully (Score:2)
Linux RDP server solution (Score:2)
With these WinCE thin clients that only run ICA/RDP, you can still make use of them without having a Windows server kicking around. Nice little project called XRDP [sourceforge.net] has been working on an RDP server for Linux (and other *NIX) machines. It works pretty well, although currently it's just a pass-through to a VNC session (they're working on a full RDP server). Makes for some fun issues with Ubuntu as the VNC server sources are configured a bit..
Re:A Range of Applications? (Score:3, Funny)
D00d, they support it all: Solitaire, Spider, Spades, Minesweeper, Notepad, Telnet AND IE.
You don't know Jack! (Score:3, Interesting)
More and more I find that I want a bunch of dumb terminals around the house. Maybe my daughter wants to play the Barbie Princess games on the web, my son wants to listen to music, or my wife wants to check e-mail. This sort of device would be great for that sort of simple stuff.
The catch, of course, is that you can buy a normal PC for much less. I picked up a nice little Dell Laptop for $400 the other day. It's wireless, has a
Re:You don't know Jack! (Score:2)
This is the downfall with this particular unit though, if it's wall point it can't be easily replaced by untrained staff. It als
Re:You don't know Jack! (Score:4, Interesting)
Think again. Software as a service is here. Even Microsoft thinks so [slashdot.org], and they're usually the last to know such things. I hate to throw out such things in this environment, but the TCO of an 80-watt desktop machine, complete with floorspace considerations, ongoing maintenance of peripherals, power consumption, etc. drives the price of even the cheapest machines fairly high, putting this unit in competition.
Furthermore, I'm fairly certain I'm not the only one who would pay a premium for a unit embedded in a wall that replaced a freestanding thing. For evidence of this, check out the market for in-wall speakers. Sure, you can buy a Polk Audio bookshelf speaker for much less than an equivalent wall-mount speaker, and it's much easier to install after the wall has been built, but there's definitely a healthy market for in-wall speakers.
I think the real test of this unit for the home market will be how well it streams video. If people can install these anywhere they would want a television (in America, that's a lot of places) and stream video off of a central server either in their house or from the Internet, plus do a bunch of other Internet-type things at the same location, they'll sell well.
For the commercial market, a unit that performs modestly well as a desktop replacement will interest cube farmers who have a lot of clients that do most of their work either by single-application (data entry, customer service, etc.), by terminal server, or via web-based apps. In schools, libraries, and other common-access places, these will make maintenance and theft protection much easier.
Yup. Truckloads for sure.
Re:You don't know Jack! (Score:2)
We've got 100's of WySE/CHIP PC/Compaq thin-client terminals at work, they do the job. We did consider this Jack one, but it has some limitations, particularly with repairs and cable reach.
Jason
Re:You don't know Jack! (Score:2)
Re:A Range of Applications? (Score:2)
RTFA. It runs WindowsCE. It'll run anything which is available for WindowsCE. That does include a limited version of Office but does not include WoW. However, it's primarily intended as a thin client. If you want to run an MS Server OS and install WoW on it, you could play WoW on the server via the client. Not being a WoW player, I can't tell you how much the display latency w
Re:A Range of Applications? (Score:2)
I have no doubt it's possible, but I haven't come across any client which does this. Anyone?
Re:The question is... (Score:3, Funny)
Does it run Linux? If not, how long before it does?
Re:performance up to 1.2ghz x86... (Score:3, Insightful)
2) Type types of systems that thin clients are meant to replace don't generally deal with fp ops.
3) It is Windows CE!
-matthew
A THIN CLIENT DOESN'T DO OPERATIONS (Score:2, Informative)
Some of the later posts mention that Windows CE is a great viable option and one even went to say PXE was jsut a boot method, nothing more (what is that suposed to mean?) PXE is a great idea for thin clients, not only does it lower the required number of periphials, but it also allows for easy administration, because the
Re:A THIN CLIENT DOESN'T DO OPERATIONS (Score:3, Informative)
Well, this JackPC thin client is pretty much exactly the definition given in your Wikipedia link.
From Wikipedia:
"The word "thin" refers to the small boot image which such clients typically require - perhaps no more than required to connect to a network and start up a dedicated web browser or "Remote Desktop" connection such as X11, Citrix ICA or Microsoft RDP."
From the Summary
"The Jack
Re:WTF? (Score:2)
RTFA? RTFS?? RTFT!!! (Score:2)
The only way I'd run one of these is as a thin server client.
Did you even read the title of the story? That's what it's designed for!
Dan Aris
Re:RTFA? RTFS?? RTFT!!! (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)