Guidelines for GPLv3 Process Released 147
Justin Baugh writes "The Free Software Foundation and the Software Freedom Law Center have released a document detailing the guidelines and the process that will be used for revising the GNU GPL, and have launched a new website related to the V3 process. It was announced in a press release this morning that the FSF will be releasing the first discussion draft of the new license for comments at the International Public Conference for GPLv3 at MIT on January 16 and 17, 2006."
New Clause (Score:2, Funny)
"Every program licensed under this license must contain the phrase 'Micro$oft sux0rs!!!1' somewhere in the source code and/or documentation."
Re:New Clause (Score:2, Insightful)
Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:3, Insightful)
Without it, it can be hard for the licensing to adapt to new requirements if not all the copyright owners can be found.
With it, you are at the mercy of the Free Software Foundation, when it comes to new versions of the GPL. I trust the FSF completely not to have any hidden motives, but it still might be that a future version of the GPL does not suit you.
A clause of "NAME OF FOUNDER OF PROJECT is free to upgrade this license to any future version of the GPL at his/her discretion" might be a better idea. This way, you CAN switch to new versions of the GPL even though you have thousands of contributors each with individual copyright on bits of the code, but you can also refuse to license the software under a future version of the GPL if it is not in your interest.
Re:Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:5, Interesting)
A clause of "NAME OF FOUNDER OF PROJECT is free to upgrade this license to any future version of the GPL at his/her discretion" might be a better idea. This way, you CAN switch to new versions of the GPL even though you have thousands of contributors each with individual copyright on bits of the code, but you can also refuse to license the software under a future version of the GPL if it is not in your interest.
This doesn't work. Suppose I fork your project. Now I am the project leader for my fork. Should I be allowed to relicense everyone elses under any GPL version because I forked?
This is actually worse than the existing clause because that means I can relicense your code to any GPL version instead of just later versions.
I actually question why we need a GPL V3 in the first place. The current GPL works perfectly well and I don't see any reason to bother using the new license at all.
Simon
Re:Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:2)
If the Linux kernel had been released with the clause "Linus Torvalds is free to upgrade this license to any future version of the GPL at his/her discretion" it would NOT allow any forks to upgrade the license.
Re:Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:2)
Re:Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:3, Insightful)
This would complicate the GPL, potentialy making it no longer international in nature. At the very least it would make it more difficult to understand for "normal people" which is, I think, a quality of the current revision(s).
It is more-or-less this scenario that explains why some projects (usualy those sponsored by a commerc
Re:Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:1)
If you want to be the copyright holder, then get everyone in your project to assign the copyright to you. If they don't play along, then you have the option of refusing their patches.
Re:Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:2, Insightful)
That's what this whole discussion is about: the best way to implement an upgradable lisence structure without requiring every single contributor's involvment.
If the lisence to the code states that i
Re:Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:1)
Fortunately, a newer GPL can't automatically invalidate an old one. If you like the current one, by all means keep using it. I suspect you won't be alone in doing so.
Re:Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:2)
A few threads arguing for clarifying ambiguities, delving into specifics geared toward their own pet concern, and language changes also need to temper their remarks with the thought that FSF is writing general-purpose legalese applicable to a few thousand projects in ~200 countries. I don't mean 'shut up and
Re:Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:2)
Re:Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:5, Interesting)
Not saying they'd ever do this, just wondering if it would be possible.
Re:Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:1)
Re:Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:1)
Re:Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:2)
Re:Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:2)
Re:Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:2)
First found in Peter Suber's book "The Paradox of Self-Amendment" or something of the sort.
Re:Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:2)
Reading up on what happend to the Cult Awareness Network is an eye opener to what can happen to non-profit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_Awareness_Netwo
Re:Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:2)
I mean, if i have some new device that actualy is pattenable wich contains code that only runs on that device and i decide to release a good portion of it to the GPL comunity so plug ins and other extended functions can be made for it, do i now give up that code or right to use it when i gop after microsoft or sony for stealing my invention and code associated w
oooops... (Score:5, Interesting)
2. It's a matter of trusting the FSF (which I don't (*)) or trusting [INSERT PERSON HERE]; my proposal is simpler: Trust the LAW. It's the only thing that (much like a computer) will do exactly as told to (and, much like a computer, you may be saying different from what you mean).
So, my suggestions will be (I'm signing in right now):
1. keep all rights given by the GPLv2, so GPLv3 will be compatible;
2. eliminate the "nonexistent linking clause", by:
2.1. stating what is NOT TO BE CONSIDERED a derivative work;
2.2. leaving all other definitions to the law.
3. don't try to mess with patents or trademarks because this would be incompatible with #1.
4. don't try to mess with choice of law or choice or venue because this would be incompatible with #1 AND non-free.
5. change the language so it's more comprehensible and leave no ambiguity behind.
Re:oooops... (Score:3, Interesting)
Sorry about that ... (Score:3, Interesting)
1. I respect RMS for his role in setting in motion the Free Software movement.
2. (corollary) I respect RMS for his role in starting GCC (which I use) and EMACS (which I don't use).
3. I respect the FSF and RMS for their roles in furthering the cause of Free software.
4. I don't trust the FSF and RMS to know that sometimes even well-intentioned people do things contrary to their own beliefs.
5. (corollary) The GFDL is non-free and sucks. Freedom should be equally applicable to all kinds of software: pro
Re:Sorry about that ... (Score:2)
Regardless, they made their position clear before you came around, they're still transparent and their position hasn't changed.
(1) Not really, (2) not really, and ... (Score:2)
1. So basically you don't trust them because you don't agree with them. -- No, actually I don't trust them because they are actively misrepresenting stuff.
2. Regardless, they made their position clear before you came around, -- No, actually I am around for approximately the same time as them, and their position was not made clear (read the conflicting "that is to say" GPL clause); and when they "clarified" their position about things, it was to _remove_ rights from people who considered (by r
Re:Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:4, Insightful)
Not to get overly philsophical, but did my patch join your program, or did your program join my patch? Copyright considers it a derivative work of both, and the concept of a "founder" doesn't exist in the legal sense. Every time you took a piece of code from another project, you would have to ask them to relicense it to acknowledge you as the founder. In many cases it makes no sense at all, because an application and a library wouldn't have any reason to recognize each other as founders. You would have to end up with an LGPLish upgrade clause in the GPL, which would be a total mess. Also, one of the fundamental freedoms of the GPL is to fork the code, and the initial founder may not at all represent the current developers of the code. If you want that kind of control, make it one of the requirements for contributing. Basicly, instead of assigning copyright, just assign a limited right to release under future GPL versions (which you could also do today with GPLv2, but I don't know of anyone that does). I think that the same people who distrust FSF the will also distrust your project, and retain all relicensing rights for their own judgement so I don't think it would work if you tried.
Re:Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:2)
I think there are projects which require you to give them a BSD-style license to it rather than complete copyright assignment.
Re:Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:1)
If you release your code with GPL V2 or whatever, that particular release goes with the text of GPL V2 and that's it. Maybe your next release of code can go with V3 and if I like the changes maybe I'll adopt it. If I don't, I'll stick with
Re:Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:2)
The FSF recommends [fsf.org] that a GPL'ed program incudes this language
and virtually every software I know does
Re:Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:1)
You may trust the FSF... (Score:2)
You may trust the FSF but it seems there is reason not to trust RMS [topology.org]
-everphilski-
Re:You may trust the FSF... (Score:2)
Re:You may trust the FSF... (Score:2)
Wow... a bad analogy on so many levels...
An analogy for the GPL would be the farmer who receives the gift of a GPL cow from a neighbour.
The farmer is thoroughly welcome to not accept the cow into its herd.
The cow is completely free, but all of the milk from the cow must be given away for free,
Since the milk is content created by a process of running the GPL cow, it's not a derivitave work of the GPL cow, it's a completley separate creation. [fsf.org] Otherwise, it'd be like Microsoft claiming copyright o
Re:Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:2)
Re:Still a bit wary of one element of the GPL (Score:2)
Assignment (Score:2)
Who would of thought (Score:1, Insightful)
that giving away software for free would be a complex world full of politics and self-appointed American rule makers squabbling over who writes the best rules and who can make a simple task as complex as possible
Re:Who would of thought (Score:5, Insightful)
The GPL is a license to ensure that your code and other code built using it remains open and usable by others.
Just giving the code away for free would allow an evil company to take somebodies hard work and lock it up in an exe shell with a squad of lawyers protecting the source.
Public Domain is noble but not wise.
Re:Who would of thought (Score:2)
This is why I don't assign GPL. If I publish my source code and someone wants to take their own copy of that code private and sell it as a value-added alternative, they don't "steal" anything from me. They don't make my copy unavailable. They don't make anyone else's copy un
Re:Who would of thought (Score:2)
Cruft happens.
Do no harm? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Do no harm? (Score:2)
Re:Do no harm? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Do no harm? (Score:1)
Re:Do no harm? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Do no harm? (Score:2)
Re:Do no harm? (Score:2)
How about just bundeling the source with the missile? :-)
Re:Do no harm? (Score:2)
Re:Do no harm? (Score:2)
But the binaries would be destroyed with the source holding to the letter of the GPL! :-P
Re:Do no harm? (Score:2)
Re:Do no harm? (Score:2)
If it is found to be used for weapons guidance systems, stock market trading, hacking, or spam emailing, it will automatically erase itself from the operating system and go home.
Re:Do no harm? (Score:2)
Yes, but... (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Yes, but... (Score:2)
Stupid question... (Score:1)
Re:Stupid question... (Score:1)
It seems like you will sell very few copies before the (minimal) derivate work shows up for free.
turn it about. (Score:2)
Re:turn it about. (Score:1)
Basically, companies such as RH rely on their branding to give them an edge in the sell vs. gratis decision.
How does your client feel that the code is GPLed?
Do they consider the risk of you letting their competitors download the code for free from your website? In effect, your client's competitors will have their development paid for by your client.
Just trying to sync(2) up the commercial world with the open source one.
Re:turn it about. (Score:2)
Re:Stupid question... (Score:1)
Re:Stupid question... (Score:3, Informative)
Maybe you haven't seen a good answer because you haven't read the GPL FAQ [gnu.org]?
No. However, if someone pays your fee and gets a copy, the GPL gives them the freedom to release it t
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
You actually gave a terrible example (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Stupid question... (Score:2)
This is one of the flaws of the GPL. For some projects it makes sense. If a Big Company wants an application to track the service life of widgets and they will pay for all the development costs then GPL is fine. They get the source and all is happy. If you have a project that lots of people will contribute time and resources to then it is also a good solution.
What GPL does do is let you create a product and spread the development cost over large number of users.
A video game is a prime examp
Re:Stupid question... (Score:5, Insightful)
RMS is a hacker. RMS thinks the innovative 3D engine in Quake is really cool, and wants to be able to play around with it to see what else he can make it do. He wants to create new things based on Quake: I recall, once the source was released, there was a mod that made Quake into a flight sim, another that gave you a warped fish-eye view, there was ttyQuake which was just deeply wrong, there were ports of Quake to every machine that would sit still long enough...
But RMS doesn't give a damn about the levels iD happened to provide along with Quake - why should he? To a hacker, they're irrelevant. Suppose Microsoft were to say 'right, you can have the code to the Windows kernel, NTFS, SMB, the Word and Excel file formats, all under GPL. But the fonts, sound effects and wallpapers, those we're keeping.' Well, who cares? We can create our own fonts and wallpapers, dammit...
Re:Stupid question... (Score:2)
That is just not so. Art is basied on science also. Everything from perspective to color. People learn to be an artist. They learn what looks good and how to compose an image. Why do you think that you can get a degree in art. Programing is much the same yes you need a talent but you learn how to be a good programmer or an artists.
Re:Stupid question... (Score:3, Insightful)
Depends if you can wait 'til Spring 2007
I think it goes too far.
How far? There is not even a public draft. Do you mean GPLv2?
And I don't like that the FSF can change it anytime in the future.
They can't. Once the text is out, it is definitive.
Let me see ... (Score:2)
And besides, the guy to which you sold your "derivative work" for less can also sell it for even less, and take away your costumers! He can even post the code on the Internet for free!
People who sell Free Software are usually selling more commodity (the CD, the paper manuals), services (support, upgrades) than the software
Free software is pro-commercial activity. (Score:2)
First, Stallman doesn't explicitly state anything in terms of the open source movement. He started the free software movement over a decade before the Open Source Initiative started the open source movement and he explains why he does not agree with the philosophy behind the open source movement [gnu.org].
What you're talking about would be better referenced by reading what RMS actually said about distributing free software for a fee [gnu.org].
To answer your question, there's nothing prohibiting you from distributing free
Re:Stupid question... (Score:2)
Support packages.
You know when you buy a Red Had server and something breaks... Who are you going to call if that Red Hat software broke on your server and you bought it from a company who didn't sell you a support package? Well you better hope you've got a good IT on hand...
Re:Stupid question... (Score:2)
As for the commodity, it's a sad fact of life. If I can give out for free what RSA or Certicom would charge hundreds of thousands of dollars for, what exactly is their value proposition? In thei
Tell me why oh why? (Score:2, Interesting)
Why do we need v3?
Expecially since a lot of people seem scared by what could come out this time.
Re:Tell me why oh why? (Score:5, Informative)
We see this now with Novell and their evolution client, and we've seen copyright vagaries with X-windows, SSH, Kerberos, and other technologies in the past. Good clear language with weird exceptions addressed carefully is the hallmark of OSS.
Re:Tell me why oh why? (Score:2)
Re:Tell me why oh why? (Score:2, Informative)
One of the possibilities for GPLv3 is a clause that would allow authors of network based server side applications to include links in the app to download so
Re:Tell me why oh why? (Score:2)
To implement new things that aren't in GPLv2. (Score:2)
We need new language (ostensibly, language that would appear in version 3) to address what RMS has called "some kind of patent retaliation clause", "something to deal with this case of public use on a server the public connects to", and something that is "designed to prohibit putting the software into something that won't let the user, that refuses to run a modified version if the user installs one". RMS has said that the library exception has been "reworked".
But generally, the GPL will stay the same: "S
Re:To implement new things that aren't in GPLv2. (Score:2)
One of RMS' beefs with Debian is that they distribute non-free software in some part of their software archive (I believe it's called the "non-free" repo, sensibly enough). If GPLv3 is deemed to be non-DFSG free, GPLv3 pro
Why no summary? (Score:1)
Re:Why no summary? (Score:2)
RTA please :-) (Score:1)
In delicate political and social matters like this one, I can only tip my hat to the notion that the good authors of slashdot stay *well* out of what has even a remote chance of getting flamed up.
Just my
~Macavity
Vaporware- nothing to see (Score:2)
This constant announcement of nothing is annoying.
So they're going to talk about the GPL v3 before releasing this, big freaking deal.
A waste of time? (Score:2)
Re:A waste of time? (Score:2)
It's only legally binding if you choose to redistribute it, otherwise it's irrelevant.
The GPL is not an EULA (Score:2)
EULAs impose additional restrictions on the software beyond the restrictions that would naturally arise due to copyright. These restrictions almost always regard how the programs may be used or redistributed. The EULA for Internet Explorer, just as an example, technically forbids you from running it under WINE, even though there is no reason by copyright law that it would be illegal to do so. The EULA of server software frequently restri
Re:The GPL is not an EULA (Score:2)
Don't have any which rules them as non-binding, however here are links to a couple of cases which show that EULAs are very legally binding.
http://www.svmedialaw.com/ecommerce-9-eula-upheld - in-dmca-hacker-case.html [svmedialaw.com]
http://www.kentlaw.edu/legalaspects/t [kentlaw.edu]
New York TImes (Score:2)
NY Times article (Score:2)
The New York Times had an article on the impact of the revision called "Overhaul of Linux License Could Have Broad Impact."
some quotes:
"Industry analysts estimate that the value of hardware and software that use the Linux operating system is $40 billion."
"The revision process promises to be intriguing because of the man behind the G.P.L., Richard Stallman, the founder of the Free Software Foundation.
The G.P.L., according to Mr. Sta
Yet another GPL3 announcement (Score:2)
I know that Richard Stallman does not like personal registration, so why do we have to register with our full name to receive news about the GPL?
Re:hrm (Score:1)
Re:GPL vs CDDL, MPL, BSD (Score:3, Informative)
Re:GPL vs CDDL, MPL, BSD (Score:2)
The BSD license has undergone a similar change - one clause was dropped. Some people refer to the MIT license as the 2-clause BSD license, which adds some more confusion to the topic.
Re:GPL vs CDDL, MPL, BSD (Score:2)
The situation with respect to the GPL is quite different. At the top of the GPL you will find this notice
Re:GPL vs CDDL, MPL, BSD (Score:4, Informative)
RTFL [gnu.org] before you speak of things you do not know. The GPL is extremely brief, and extremely free of legal mumbo-jumbo. Believe it or not, a bit on the skimpy side at times. Not to mention it's a license you can read once, and know what it says a thousand times. Try comparing it to any commercial license, and I don't mean just the infamous MS EULAs. I mean to every license ever touched by a company lawyer. And if you had read the other licenses as well, you'd see they are quite different both from each other and from the GPL...
Re:Increasingly Irrelevant (Score:2, Insightful)
the future isnt about narrowing down our choices to only one style of license - its about broadening them. to some companies, real - money driven - licenses make sense. others it doesnt. you'll be ok. i promise.
Re:Read the message, not the wrapping (Score:2)
Re:[OT] SFLC taking control of FSF ? (Score:2)