Intuit Apologizes to Turbo Tax Customers 376
tstoneman writes "Intuit has issued an apology for aggravating $50-90 million in customers over their product activation code. Let's hope that they have learned their lesson, and that other companies will heed this warning. Nonetheless, I am still seething over their malware that they installed without letting me know, and despite the apology, I will be moving to Taxcut permanently from now on."
Alternative Link (Score:3, Informative)
I say support them (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I say support them (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I say support them (Score:3, Insightful)
Let the companies know they have to check with some of their customers before they try any type of major restriction like this, and they can't just shove it down our throats and expect us to just take it. I'm sure a focus group would have quickly told them that people did NOT want this sort of restriction. They weren't concerned about that. They are the 'top dog' in tax software so they figured we'd be stuck
Re:I say support them (Score:5, Insightful)
As as result of the Divx debacle from over 5 years ago, I still won't shop at Circuit Shitty. And I suspect I'm not the only one. I have to imagine that this has had some impact on the rise of Best Buy in the northeast.
Best Buy? (Score:5, Interesting)
Or perhaps the Best Buy that advertised that NVidia (I think) video card, then took it back and said the offer was no good, and then called the cops when the one customer came in with the coupon and wanted his video card (That one was on Slashdot).
That must be the "customer friendly" Best Buy you are talking about.
Re:Best Buy? (Score:3, Informative)
Besides, what you describe are isolated incidents, probably due to individual overzealous store managers. Who cares. The Divx situation was a lot worse: the Circuit City main office attempting to shove premeditated, primitive, and inconvenient DRM down all our throats through a deceptive advertising campaign and at the expense of whatever good will there was in the DVD consortium.
Yeah, all companies do some bad things along with some
Re:Best Buy? (Score:3, Informative)
Atleast, not without backing [gamershardware.com] it [gamershardware.com] up [geek.com]!
-r
Yes, that one. (Score:3, Informative)
when I attempted to return a christmas gift that someone had given me, they wouldn't take it back, as I had the receipt, which showed it was bought in November, so I would've had 2 days from Christmas to have returned it within the 30 days.
It was still in the wrapper, still had the 'Best Buy' price tag on it, I had the receipt, and I was just trying to get store credit. I think what pissed me off more was that I had to drive about 25 miles to the neares
You are not the only one. (Score:2)
Similarily for Turbo Tax I am not going to buy Intuit software for quite a while, although my own stance is a little softer there. If Intuit folds, it could mean bad things for the indu
Re:You are not the only one. (Score:2, Interesting)
When Divx died, DVDs went up in price.
Re:You are not the only one. (Score:2)
Re:I say support them (Score:2)
I actually prefer it this way. I was wandering through Brandsmart the other day and employees were harassing me every frickin' four minutes. I much prefer the blissful peace of Best Buy, where I can browse in peace and only talk to an employee when *I* initiate the conversation.
Divx vs. DVD (Score:3, Insightful)
It still plays DVDs just fine, and wouldn't have made your "investment" worthless if it had lived. On the contrary, I think if Divx had lived it would not have killed DVDs, but new release DVDs would still be $13 instead of $20. There is no reason why the two formats couldn't have coexisted and competed.
As for the DRM issues, do you think your privacy is any more secure with Blockbuster or your cable company? Do you ever use a credit card?
I understand why f
Re:I say support them (Score:4, Interesting)
This is great and I would be more than happy to support them after this, but this biggest sticking issue with me and Intuit is the apparent incompatibility with their data formats between the Mac OS and Windows of Quickbooks. What is the deal with that? They say that databases can be transferred "once", but going back and forth is impossible.
Re:I say support them (Score:5, Insightful)
I used turbotax every year for several years (yes, I bought my own copy), but I heard about the DRM in the last version and went with H&R Block's software instead (cheaper anyway, and imported my old turbotax files just fine).
It's nice that they seem to realize they made a mistake, but an apology won't get me back as a customer. They tried this once, and have proven simply that they cannot be trusted. That trust (especially for financial software) is important, and it will take a lot more than some lame apology to rebuid that trust.
Re:I say support them (Score:4, Funny)
Punish the customers less. Then every lesser punishment will feel like a reward.
Of course, that would just mean they still get to ream you up the ass the first time around... I say we should set an example of Intuit instead, and completely shut them down, so other companies take note of the blazing carcass left.
Re:I say support them (Score:2)
I say crush them (Score:2)
You want people to say "That tax software company did something like that, people hated it, stopped buying their product and they went from first in the industry to bankrupcy. Lets just trust our customers."
They listen to revenue, not customers (Score:5, Insightful)
They do not listen to customers, they listen to revenue. They put in DRM believing it would increase their revenue; as the article says, "[Intuit] predicted that revenue would increase, since customers who had previously purchased only one TurboTax program would have to buy a separate copy for each computer in the house". No part of that plan serves the customer. Similarly, the only reason they changed it is because they lost a ton of money.
It just so happened in this case that customers were able to weild enough power to hurt their revenues. Thinking that they "listened to customers" is to miss the fact that they would have continued to screw customers as long as they could have squeezed more revenue out of them by doing so. That they changed course here is not to their credit in any sense other than that they're not pathologically oblivious to the failure of their plan to screw customers.
Use the web version (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Use the web version (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Use the web version (Score:2, Informative)
50-90 million? (Score:2)
Re:50-90 million? (Score:2)
Bye-bye Intuit (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm not sure if TaxCut will be my choice permanently, but I am sure that I'll forever look for something other than Intuit.
Call me a jerk about it, or whatever. I just don't see why I ever need to give a business a second chance after they've been a ball-muncher. I just say "good bye" and never look back.
Disingenuous scum. (Score:3, Interesting)
Intuit issues an apology? It's easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission How about Intuit starts showing their conscience by sending cheques to registered owners of the crippled software. Only then would I be convinced they mean it.
Boot record (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Boot record (Score:3, Informative)
Windows XP? (Score:2)
Re:Windows XP? (Score:2)
No, windows installs its data in its registry. Not the boot records.
Re:Windows XP? (Score:2)
Re:Windows XP? (Score:3, Informative)
Although I'll admit the activation isn't foolproof... it threw an "I don't think
Re:Windows XP? (Score:3, Insightful)
It really, REALLY bothers me that people put up with this bullshit. If no one did, MS wouldn't be able to pull it off.
Why aren't people as upset about XP's activation as they were about Intuit's?
Re:Windows XP? (Score:2)
Trying to run this into the ground... (Score:4, Funny)
What's with the candle trucks? (Score:2)
Re:What's with the candle trucks? (Score:2, Informative)
hrm... (Score:2)
I wonder if slashdot is one of those websites they were planning on posting the letter on as an advertisement?
Blast from the past (Score:4, Informative)
Intuit drops DRM feature from Turbo Tax [slashdot.org]
The result of not being a monopoly (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:The result of not being a monopoly (Score:2)
Re:The result of not being a monopoly (Score:2)
I'm going to burn a bit of my karma on an OT post just to help out a RH9 brutha. Do yourself a favor and download the atrpm's kickstart [fu-berlin.de] of Apt. Then get Synaptic [fu-berlin.de] to go with it. It'll change your whole outlook on RH9 and Linux in general. Seriously, unless you're a real techie who wants to get his hands dirty, there's no need to really e
Huh? (Score:2)
It's a bit late, isn't it? (Score:4, Informative)
This was a hot issue in Feb-Apr of this year.. What took them so long?
I used TurboTax for my '01 taxes, but because of this incident I changed to Tax Cut last year. I will be sticking with Tax Cut.
I was pissed at Intuit before this incident anyway. They also play those shady rebate games. The TurboTax'01 box stated 'Free State Tax' forms. Once I opened it, I found it was not included, but needed to be downloaded - no problem. Go to download it, and they insist on charging me $20 for the download with the opportunity to mail in rebate forms for a refund. Screw them.
Re:It's a bit late, isn't it? (Score:3, Insightful)
It took them four months along with two market research firms to determine that, in fact, customers don't like getting screwed.
DRM sux (Score:2)
A bit off topic, but I wonder how Valve's draconian DRM system called Steam is going to fair in the long r
Re:DRM sux (Score:2)
Double Standards? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Double Standards? (Score:2)
Microsoft does.
It doesn't take all that much pondering.
Re:Double Standards? (Score:2)
I didn't buy XP and went for Linux 100% based on this factor.
Hopefully... (Score:2)
Other mechanisms for "securing" software? (Score:4, Informative)
I read a bunch of suggestions that would have made more sense for their security. For example, generate a key that uses the address used to file the taxes... sure, you still have the annoyance of having to contact them for a registration key, but you remove the necessity of having separate keys for different machines, and reinstall is a snap.
Of course, you could also key it off of a SSN, but that's a little too "big brother" for my taste.
Although it requires more trust on the consumer's part (ok, admittedly, I don't have this level of trust for Intuit), they could expand their online version of the tax software... not only control who has access, but you eliminate the annoyance of keeping old copies of the software around (for tax revision, whatever), updates, and even storage of old returns. And they save tons of cash on not distributing media.
It could be spun as a "win-win" for the consumer.
Nope... they chose to put a resident program on my computer. Using my resources to "protect" their property. Unacceptable.
Despite the affiliation with Microsoft, I too will be switching to TaxCut.
Negative things (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Negative things (Score:2)
They do through sales of their product. Thats louder than any comment on some support page.
So the question is (Score:2)
Taxcut (Score:2, Interesting)
Anyway, my real purpose for posting is this: only switch to Taxcut if you absolutely have to. Even the people who wrote Taxcut openly admitted that TurboTax was by far the better software. Taxcut went into production largely untested at that point anyway (2001 tax year). Just my two cents I guess.
Re: (Score:2)
Corporate Death Penalty (Score:2, Interesting)
Oh the irony... (Score:5, Interesting)
TaxACT is cheaper (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.2ndstorysoftware.com/products/index_
Hey Microsoft are you listening? (Score:2, Funny)
As someone who did TaxCut tech support this year.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Just sayin', ya know...
Re:As someone who's always used a CPA... (Score:4, Informative)
Conversely, you get someone who's ignorant of tax law and *realizes* their ignorance, and they just scurry off to the CPA regardless of their return. (and, I note, there's no shame in this - tax law is *insane*)
And then, in the middle, are those who purchase TaxCut\TurboTax. They either A)think they know more than they do, or B)believe it's some sort of magic number-sorting program that will instantly produce a tax return for them with no amount of work on their part. I had some customers who legitimately believed they didn't even have to worry about the prompts, that the program would somehow magically "know" what was income, what was royalties, etc etc. (and, of course, if the luser manages to create for themselves a Schedule-C when all they did was have a garage sale, that's the program's fault, even though the prompts and explanations are written at about a middle-school level)
And don't even get me STARTED on those boneheads that thought they could use a $15 piece of software to cheat on their taxes like a $1500 CPA. "But I did this LAST year!" "Which means you got lucky and weren't audited, since it was illegal last year too." (I even had one guy *demand* I help him hide a home business under "Miscellaneous Income" because if a CPA can do it, TaxCut MUST do it for him. He got hung up on.)
I will say, if you know something about taxes to begin with, TaxCut IS a pretty good program. It had a few bugs in the calculations, but most were the staggeringly complex sort one or two people MIGHT stumble across through dumb luck. (and one REALLY idiotic bug involving proxy servers blocking e-filing, but that's another story) The problem is it's marketed (and priced) specifically towards those who LEAST need to be using it. So go on use it if you have a simple return, or if you have a decent understanding of home taxes and just need a hand with the math and specific forms. Otherwise, just get a CPA. It's safer.
Sorry (Score:2, Interesting)
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
We need this action (Intuit
eh? (Score:2, Funny)
First there are business models based on litigation, now customers are bought instead of won?
I will never understand business..
Non-expiring Tax Calculator (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, I suppose eventually, it'll get too short from repeated sharpenings, and I'll need to buy a new pencil... but you get my point.
Geez, people, do all of you guys file as your own business? Personal taxes are not that hard. At least, not up here in Canada. Why are people so afraid of 'em? You get some slips in the mail, you copy the numbers over onto the forms, do a little math, and presto, you get some money back. They'll even double-check your numbers for you, and if you missed a deduction, they'll adjust for you, and you'll get more money back.
What's the big attraction about spending $30/year or whatever on the latest-and-greatest tax software, or paying some suit at H&R Block to do simple arithmetic for you?
Aren't we supposed to be among the smartest of society? Or at least among the most mathematically adept? Why the big fear? The satisfaction of filing your own taxes and doing it all on paper is pretty rewarding, I must say.
Re:Non-expiring Tax Calculator (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't know how they do it in Canada but here in the US doing taxes by hand sucks. At least if you have an estate of any real complexity. (i.e. more than a salary and maybe a few stocks) The tax rules are byzantine and the forms make no sense to people with college educations. I have both engineering and business degrees. My wife is a physician. So it's not that we lack the brai
Re:Non-expiring Tax Calculator (Score:2)
Perhaps, in the USA, it is the satisfaction of even having paid professionals and computer software getting stumped as to how to classify the sale of a used car that was purchased for a dollar from a family member who intended it as a gift. The US tax code is a terrible terrible mess.
Re:Non-expiring Tax Calculator (Score:4, Funny)
You're forgetting that this is America. More than half of the shops around here would shutdown if their calculators/computers stopped working (let's ignore the inventory control here). True story told by a (calculus II) professor of mine: he and his wife went to a movie theater and was about to pay for tickets when told by the clerk it's free today. Later, he goes and buys popcorn and drinks..they were given free also. He asks why the tickets and food were free today, the clerk says "our machines are down, so we can't charge any money."
Re:Non-expiring Tax Calculator (Score:3, Funny)
Canada Tax Form 2003
1. How much money did you make in 2003? ___________________
2. Send it in.
Q: can I run their current crap without C-Dilla? (Score:3, Interesting)
Can I? Anyone?
P.S. If after a bit of research I find I can do my taxes with another piece of software I shall. You can support these assholes if you like, I'm going to find someone I can trust more with my important financial data (that trust is about access to my own data as well as privacy, privacy is NOT the only concern), that right now means anyone who makes decent tax software and isn't called Intuit.
Lesson? (Score:2)
What lesson would that be?
Don't put DRM that could screw over the systems of unsuspecting customers, your biggest market? (since every American has to pay taxes) Ok, fair enough. Some DRM goes too far.
But if the lesson is "don't use copy protection - embrace rampant piracy" then I have to disagree. We have a double edged sword here - digital mediums are easy to use and easy to abuse. I see copy protection as a reminder that you have to pay for each copy of something you use, unless
Re:Lesson? (Score:5, Insightful)
This does not mean that there were 10 million pirated copies of TurboTax. This means that people did their own taxes and their mom's taxes and maybe their neighbor's taxes with the software they bought. I don't care what the EULA says, that is not piracy. You don't have to buy a new copy of Microsoft Office each time you write a letter.
It gets into another big argument, but the idea that companies can tell you how you are allowed to use their product after you legally purchase it is pretty flawed. The reason so many average people commit the crime of piracy so often is because the restrictions companies are trying to place on ridiculous. Why would someone think it would be illegal to do their mom's taxes with the software they bought? You don't have to buy another car if you let your friend drive it.
One of the advantages that using software has over using a CPA is that it can be used over again for the same price. Part of Intuit's problem was that what consumers saw as a big advantage in using their product, Intuit saw as a crime. In order to stop this percieved crime, Intuit took away one of the big selling points of their software.
I'm glad they eventually learned their lesson, but I'm with a lot of folks here on
Re:Lesson? (Score:4, Interesting)
If Intuit had the only decent tax software out there then I (and probably many others) would go back. But Intuit did this at a time when they face rather stiff competition from TaxCut and other software. I found TaxCut just as easy to use as TurboTax, not to mention slightly cheaper. It also did my taxes right the first time -- my wife cross checked things by doing them online w/ TurboTax and we spent a couple days figuring out why they came up with different numbers.
Oh, and as it turns out, TurboTax did it wrong. And fixing it required you to start over from scratch.
Yeah, I think I'll be sticking with TaxCut for the forseeable future.
If Intuit is being honest... (Score:3, Insightful)
Anyone have the *actual* apology? (Score:2)
Until I hear what they have to say about it, saying you are going to apologize doesn't count. I am guessing that the only reason they are sorry is because people got pissed and went to a different product. i.e. they aren't sorry for what they did, and don't recognize why it was wrong. Of course they'll issue an apology to try and get busine
Re:Anyone have the *actual* apology? (Score:2)
Search on http://turbotaxsupport.com for "apology" turns up nothing [intuit.com] about Turbo Tax (uses same search engine, so not a big surprise.
You can find a link to a FAQ entry [turbotaxsupport.com] that is a mere two clicks away from universal keys, although no patch to remove the copy inhibitions. It does not sound paticularly penitent to me:
Too late, Intuit, I've already switched. (Score:3, Interesting)
All they had to do to keep me as a customer forever was to not screw up.
Well, last year they screwed up. So I switched.
And you know what? As you'd expect in a highly competitive environment... the differences between TurboTax and TaxCut hardly amount to a hill of beans. In fact the general design of the programs is pretty similar and I barely had to consult the online help. On balance, EXCEPT for the product activation nonsense, the two products are roughly on a par.
If there had been any doubt in my mind, a few bad experiences with Intuit's so-called customer support resolved them. (I don't know how H&R Block's compares... because I didn't need to use it).
I _did_ need to re-enter a lot of my basic information from last year.
Switch back? Why should I go to the effort? I am now a TaxCut customer. And there's no reason at all H&R Block shouldn't be able to keep me for life.
All they need to do is not screw up.
The value of a GOOD CPA/Intuits annoying strategie (Score:2)
As a long term Intuit/Quicken customer, I was a bit turned off by that move. Now tha
I never noticed. (Score:2)
Dumb & Dumber (Score:2)
Macromedia uses it now (Score:2)
An idea for product activation (Score:3, Insightful)
You know, if you want a fair and decent way to do product activation, maybe the idea of tying the product to a single computer is taking the wrong approach...
How about using some sort of portable id storage device (like a USB keydrive or a Dallas Semiconductor Crypto I-Button) to store the activation. No more concerns about installing the software on hundreds of computers. Just tie the id storage device to the software somehow, and take the id device where-ever you need to run the software from.
How hard is that?
Re:Expenses (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Expenses (Score:2)
What's the difference?
RTFA (Score:2, Informative)
Revenue was $50 million to $90 million less than expected.
Re:Open source, please. (Score:2, Informative)
Frankly, I think that gnuTaxes is the way to go if you're looking for tax preparation software. Anyone who pays $30 for TurboTax deserves what they get.
Re:Why should be decent product activation evil ? (Score:2)
Re:Why should be decent product activation evil ? (Score:2, Insightful)
Actually they aren't protecting their IP from pirates. They are protecting their IP from casual copying. Real pirates can get around almost any type of copy protection. Product activation, in most forms, is pretty easy to crack if you know what your doing. Activation doesn't stop real pirates. Not much can.
I have always found product activation funny. While I understand the desire to protect IP, casual copying in many instances can result in greater
Re:Why should be decent product activation evil ? (Score:2, Insightful)
It's evil in general, because by the time every software manufacturer is doing it, I'll have to make ~20 phone calls when I install that magic new video card that tweaks my hardware hash just enough...
and what happens when competing forms of activation schemes over-write each other's Secret Hard Drive
Re:Why should be decent product activation evil ? (Score:2, Interesting)
As a result, many bootloaders ceased to operate because they were being overwritten by the activation. There is no justification at all for using the boot sector as a casual data storage area.
Re:Why should be decent product activation evil ? (Score:2)
Re:Why should be decent product activation evil ? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Why should be decent product activation evil ? (Score:2)
The Jargon File's definition of copy protection [catb.org]:
Intuit's own "copy protection" proved to fit this definition a little too well.
Re:Each company will learn for themselves..... (Score:2)
Only a very small percentage will actually complain about it, and that number will be way smaller than any of the other types of users.
I'm just guessing here, but I bet I will be right.
I disagree (Score:2)
Eventually, they will become ASPs (especially with one-off software like annual tax software) where important chunks of functionality run server-side. No more piracy.
Re:shoot me (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Let them know you do not accept the apology... (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm a lost customer to you; it is unlikely that I would ever buy another Intuit product. I've been a paying customer of yours for years, both at retail and directly from you, but this year I bought TaxCut and am perfectly happy with it. I am still shocked that you think that treating your customers like thieves is a good business practice. I see you have an "unlock code" now for Quicken too, from the front page.
You're supposed to be in the business of SOLVING customers' problems,