History To Repeat Itself With PS3? 390
Dr. Eggman writes to mention a 1up article looking at the way things were when the PS2 launched vs. next week's PlayStation 3 launch. The question: can history repeat itself? From the article: "PS2: Released one year after the lower priced Dreamcast, lauded for its great games, ease of development, and superior online service. PS3: Releasing one year after the lower priced Xbox 360, lauded for its great games, ease of development, and superior online service. PS2: Competition from Nintendo: A smaller, cheaper 'family friendly' console with a 'focus on gameplay.' PS3: Competition from Nintendo: A smaller, cheaper 'family friendly' console with a 'focus on gameplay.'" The article also looks at how things have changed for Sony since the last time around.
The Other side of the coin (Score:5, Informative)
For me it's all about the price
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For me it's all about the price
Ah, but pricing is always more art than science. The other way to look at that issue is that Nintendo's making the cheap gaming console. And when Christmas rolls around, kids always want the impressive one.
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Re:The Other side of the coin (Score:4, Funny)
$600 doesn't leave much room for any games
Of course, Sony not having many launch titles (Oblivion, I'm looking at you) means you don't need any games for your $600 videogame system!
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Re:The Other side of the coin (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The Other side of the coin (Score:4, Insightful)
You have a valid point, but in this case, both the Wii and the PS3 look like gourmet products. I think kids would appreciate any 3 of the systems, as long as they get a few games too. $600 doesn't leave much room for any games, but $250 certainly does.
You'd think that, but the other way of thinking would be, if you're going to spend $600 you'll damned sure buy some games for it! It's also effective market segmentation - restricted supply at the beginning with a high price tag, followed by increased supply and lower prices later.
I think what happened is they saw what went down with the Xbox 360. They see every unit being scraped up and sold on Ebay for between $600 and $1000. Sony probably figures if anyone is going to profit from the craze, it's going to be them. And if they have the sorts of supply problems that has plagued nearly every console launch in the history of mankind, demand WILL drive the price there anyway. No sense in watching someone else make the money instead.
Fry the flipper's warranties... (Score:2)
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Back on-topic though, I just don't see the PS3 being worth its cost. Maybe it's because I'm not a fanboy? I love video games but I just don't have that much cash to shell out on a system, AND then the games. Then again I might change my mind once all of my friends get one and I actually get to play it
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Download Yellow Dog Linux in a few weeks and it has all the functionality of a PS2 equipped with a Linux kit.
It does PS1/PS2 games too.
Music, photo and video.
There's a built in web browser
Built in WiFi
Built in ethernet
Built in card reader.
It does more so it costs more
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Re:The Other side of the coin (Score:5, Insightful)
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For God's Sake (Score:3, Insightful)
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Re:The Other side of the coin (Score:5, Interesting)
PS3: You're not getting one. Ha!
Wii: Risky, but inexpensive.
XBox: Just fork over the cash for instant gratification.
I think that says a lot about the mainstream views on this generation of console.
The article can be read online here:
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/gaming/2006-11-09-co
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Call it patriotism, xenophobia, racism, whatever. That's just how the consumer cultur
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Apple.
Dell.
Coca-Cola.
Proctor & Gamble.
VISA.
All of them are doing very well in a supposedly xenophobic Japanese market, even though credible domestic alternatives exist. The Japanese people are perfectly happy to take Western products over Japanese products if they are in fact superior to needs in Japan, and is marketed properly. Microsoft can't blame the society for the horrendous performance over here.
As for the "Hard-Core" gamer segment, no, So
That's not the real reason (Score:5, Insightful)
The PS3 is a cheap Blu-Ray player, but Blu-Ray is by no means established. Instead of using the DVD to launch the PS2, they're trying to do the reverse: using the PS3 to launch Blu-Ray. I don't think that will work nearly as well. In fact, I expect it to fail miserably.
$300 a "very cheap" DVD player in 2000?! (Score:4, Informative)
The DVD player contributed it, but it is by far the "real" reason it was so successful.
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I really doubt it, how many people knew the PS2 doubled as a DVD player? I'd venture to guess not that many (at least in north america) maybe in Japan where the people are more tech savvy and cultured. The xbox also played DVD's yet didn't sell anywhere close to what the PS2 did. People bought the PS2 because they were looking forward to the sequels of their favorite g
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Obviously you don't know parents with kids.
Also, you don't know me or any of my PS2-owning friends, all of whom used their PS2 as a DVD player. DVD players were expensive at the time and most of us didn't have one, but were willing to shell out money for a PS2. As it is, I didn't get mine at launch time, I waited for a price drop. Ended u
Playing DVDs on the PS2 is very nice! (Score:5, Funny)
DISC READ ERROR
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Re:That's not the real reason (Score:4, Interesting)
i agree that the PS3 does not have the same bonus appeal. DVDs were so much better than VHS, the jump to the new formats does not seem to have the same upgrade feel. if you dropped the money on a HD flat panel TV etc etc and care that much to upgrade all your movies.... the cost issue is probably insignificant.
i agree that this is going to be the opposite effect..... people will now just happen to have a Blu-Ray compatible player so they may start buying some movies on that format (if there is some special edition or something). i have a feeling the quality issues won't be enough at this point, for this audience at least.
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summary: (Score:3, Funny)
same games, better graphics, pay us again
Simple Answers to Slashdot Questions (Score:5, Funny)
No.
This has been another episode of Simple Answers to Slashdot Questions.
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XBox: Hardware superior to the PS2, but came out later and spent much of its life trying to catch up and find its niche
PS3: Hardware superior to the X-Box 360, but coming out later and at a higher price point... So will it lag behind the now-established X-Box 360, and gradually settle into runner-up position?
Or will it be a come-from-behind victory for the Phantom console? You be the judge!
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No.
I disagree.
Unfortunately for them, it is the history of Betamax.
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Online support? (Score:3, Insightful)
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the dreamcast was the one boasting everything (including superior online play).
honestly, I was still a PC Fanboy at the time, and thus didn't pay any attention to the dreamcast and really do not know much about it.
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Sega launched SegaNet as the start of online gaming, as they were the forefront of console online gaming from the Saturn days. They didn't proclaim the rest.
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History doesn't repeat itself... (Score:5, Insightful)
The PS3 might still dominate, but it's not likely to be for the exact same reasons as in the past.
TW
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It is exactly the same with SONY. Dreamcasts can come true.
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The PS3 might still dominate, but it's not likely to be for the exact same reasons as in the past.
TW
actually, it still doesn't. People like occasional online play and some really enjoy it (inclusing almost anyone here). But it's not a mainstream feature. Xbox l
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Repeating history? I hope not.. (Score:5, Informative)
Ease of what? (Score:2)
The article also compares "the average price for PS2 on ebay [sic] in November 2000" with "the price for the higher end PS3 when it releases in November 2006." Stock eBay vs. high-end retail price? And this is supposed to be a formula?
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You beat me to it. The cell sure is not simple to write for, and many developers are on the record saying so. According to some I've read (like here [gamepro.com] and here [slashdot.org]) it might be not as hard as expected, or not as hard as PS2, but this does not say much since PS2 was considered very hard by most.
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But yeah, the price point argument really struck me that way, too. If the best you can say about your price is that it's no higher than what the scalpers and scam artists were able to squeeze out of a gross mismatch between quantiy supplied and quantity demanded last time around, I don't think you've managed a ringing endorsement of your value.
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Sony doesn't much care how they compare to Xbox... (Score:5, Insightful)
The PS2 sold 105million units. Let's say the PS3 is a disaster - how bad could it be? 50million? 25million?
Those are all Blu-ray devices. At least an installed base of 25million Blu-ray players sold in a few years time. Versus how many HD-DVD players? How can HD-DVD compete with that kind of a headstart?
Owning the next-gen DVD format is the prize here. HD-DVD is only 33% ahead of Blu-ray today, before the PS3 even hits the market. I think that's more precious to Sony than losing a bit of ground to Microsoft. Maybe they calculated on losing gaming market share this time round.
Re:Sony doesn't much care how they compare to Xbox (Score:2)
I think you're the one that is confused, sorry. Sony is all about long-term w/the PS3, and there is no single element of it that will make or break those goals.
Owning the next-gen DVD format is the prize here
Irrelevant...that token is off the table with today's announcement of a 'playz-all' drive. Poof - gone. Risk-free for both sides and life goes on. Next problem?!
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Re:Sony doesn't much care how they compare to Xbox (Score:2)
I agree. I think Sony's trying to take a double edged sword here. It's what [slashdot.org] I've been [slashdot.org] thinking as well.
Cheers,
Fozzy
Re:Sony doesn't much care how they compare to Xbox (Score:2)
This also ignores the very real possibility that both formats will flop, because DVD was just too successful, and people don't want to start replacing med
Re:Sony doesn't much care how they compare to Xbox (Score:4, Interesting)
Easily. HD-DVD has the letters "DVD" in it. That has an immediate meaning in the average consumer's head: It's like DVD, but now it's in HD! Just like how a HD-TV is like a TV but in HD!
HD-DVD, regardless of how well it actually performs, has an immediate name recognition. The name "Blu-ray" really doesn't convey any meaning to the average Joe Blow -- unless s/he already did the homework. It doesn't exactly scream, "This is better than DVD!"
Re:Sony doesn't much care how they compare to Xbox (Score:2, Interesting)
So I really don't forsee this as being a coup for Sony. It might be, but I don't think so. I bought an N65 and then a Playstation. I bought a Playstation2 and then a Gamecube.
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History To Repeat Itself? (Score:5, Funny)
1. The naysayers will say that it'll suck
2. It'll sell beyond expectations
3. The naysayers deny the first statement and claim they knew all along
History's not repeating (Score:5, Informative)
PS3: Competition from Nintendo: A smaller, cheaper 'family friendly' console with a 'focus on gameplay.' released concurrently with the PS3."
Fixed your article. Where's my co-author credit?
Re:History's not repeating (Score:4, Interesting)
In Europe, Wii is getting released Before Christmas, PS3 is getting released After Christmas, which I'd guess will be hugely important. That said, from what I hear from my contacts in the school playground (which is to say my little sister) the DS Lite is the must-have Christmas gift this year...
Last line in the article (Score:2)
Who said this?
seriously, I don't remember anyone saying they WANT Sony to fail, most comments I have seen have been a desire to see all 3 systems do well, for a more open and competative game market....
any one?
link highly apreciated.
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It's the price, stupid. (Score:3, Insightful)
No console with a launch price higher than $300 (at the time of launch) has ever been a success.
No console with a launch price higher than $400 (adjusted for inflation to 2006 dollars) has been a success since prior to The Crash of 1982.
Sony took a huge risk in pricing their new console so far outside of the historical comfort zone for price, and I don't think the outlook for them is good at all. I only wonder what derisive name will ultimately be attached to their failure:
P$3?
PS3DO?
PS3O-GEO?
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Sega Issues (Score:5, Interesting)
Who writes these, 12 year olds? (Score:3, Funny)
The past tense of cost is cost. You sound like a retard or an elementary school child when you write it in a "real" article. This is the first line, too! Do they not hire editors at 1up?
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Yea, costed is an english word - but only in game developer jargon when talking about game balance decisions. "Yea, we costed long swords at 50 gold after we realized that they were unbalanced at 40."
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Its not the same (Score:3, Insightful)
So when Sega rushed the dreamcast out to be the first of the new generation systems, people were hesitant about buying another sega product. Some people only used the Saturn as a stop-gap till the PS2 came out. The hype of the PS2 helped kill the dreamcast but it wasn't the only factor.
This time around PS3 is competing with Xbox360. Unlike Saturn the Xbox has proven itself as a strong system, and in many ways better then PS2.
Except it's a horrid thing to see. (Score:2)
Even worse people jumped on board the ps2 for two reasons. A. It was the only system worth buying, (Sorry dream cast) the only system with a great legacy. B. It had GTA. C. It played your PS2 games and only costed 300 dollars.
Sony can pretend this is all good because it's the same, but Ps2's early launch saved them. PSX not really having competition for CD based systems saved them. Ho
What is this hokey non-sense (Score:3, Insightful)
vs.
How is that a valid comparison? I wonder if the author is aware that the PS3's are going for up to $5000 on ebay right now. And there's also that gem about PS2's having DVD functionality:
From what I recall, DVD's were already kicking ass when PS2 came out. In fact, many people bought a PS2 because they liked the DVD functionality.
One Major Comparison Left Out (Score:4, Insightful)
PS3: Released in the middle of a shitty economy when a large number of twentysomethings have less money, more bills, and enough to worry about that a $700 game console isn't in the cards.
Price predictions (Score:3, Insightful)
The Xbox was released on November 15, 2001 at a price of $299 and it was reduced in price to $199 on May 15, 2002.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_2 [wikipedia.org]The PS2 was released on October 26, 2000 at a price of $299 and it was reduced in price to $199 on May 14, 2002.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamecube [wikipedia.org]The Gamecube was released on November 18, 2001 at a price of $199 and it was reduced in price to $149 on May 13, 2002.
My guess is that in May, the Xbox 360 Core version will be dropped and the premium version will be reduced to $299. The PS3 will be reduced to $399/$499 and the Wii will be reduced to $199. It may come down to one company cutting their price and the others following.
Microsoft earns over $10 billion a year in profit, while Sony and Nintendo make about $1 billion each every year. Microsoft has been making the Xbox 360 for over a year, significantly cutting manufacturing costs.
The one game that has been reviewed on both the PS3 and the Xbox 360 is Tony Hawk Project 8. There are two major problems with the PS3 version: lack of online support and frame rate issues. The frame rate issues are a huge problem for Sony. If someone is paying a premium price, they expect a premium product. If the PS3 version of games is inferior to the Xbox 360 version, I don't see why anyone would want to purchase a PS3. Luckily for Sony, it probably just means that people are having a difficult time developing for the platform.
Ease of development? (Score:3, Insightful)
I am a big fan of the Cell (I've done some writing about it and played a bit with the sim), but I can't imagine calling it "easy".
Re:Wrong? (Score:5, Insightful)
"PS3: Releasing one year after the lower priced Xbox 360, [with the Xbox360 being] lauded for its great games, ease of development, and superior online service."
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Online service? Don't forget to get the update! (Score:2)
Seriously, when you know a week before launch that you'll have to download an update for the console as soon as you buy it in order to use online features, that's not what I would call a superior online service.
Re:Online service? Don't forget to get the update! (Score:5, Funny)
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Remember, people who make up lists of similareties between major events also try to corilate the killing of JFK and Lincoln.
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I'd say the Dreamcast had a lot more in common with the Atari Lynx. Both were innovative platforms made by failing companies that died due to a complete lack of marketing.
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I agree 100%. I plan on getting a PS3 but not until the first hardware revision. At that point I'm more likely to get one wihtout defectes )xbox 360 overheatign issues, PS2 disc read error, NES piss poor first gen copper contacts ect..). also b
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It said:
It would have been clearer had it said: "PS2: Released one year after the lower priced Drea
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The idea that the bottom of the line Sony is only $100 more than the top of the line MS product is supposed to be a selli