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Will the Wii Work? 425

Posted by Zonk
from the like-a-charm-or-an-anvil dept.
Today BusinessWeek is running an article asking Will Nintendo's Wii Strategy Score? With the Tokyo Game Show this week, they run down the trials facing Nintendo's little-box-that-could both here in the States, and in Japan. From the article: "Few expect truly dedicated gamers to choose the Wii over the PS3 or Xbox. And ultimately, the advantage may go to Sony. Yuta Sakurai, an analyst at Nomura Securities in Tokyo, expects the PS3 to sell 71 million units by 2011, compared with 40 million units for the Wii. Microsoft, meanwhile, is planning a stripped-down version of the Xbox without a hard-disk drive and other accessories that will cost about $250 in Japan, where the U.S. software maker has endured disappointing results."
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Will the Wii Work?

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  • Bogus (Score:5, Insightful)

    by B3ryllium (571199) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @02:40PM (#16148396) Homepage
    Wii isn't targetted at "dedicated" gamers - it's for casual gamers or people who haven't tried gaming before. It might be a shot in the arm for the console industry as a whole, in fact. Heck, I haven't owned a console since the NES, and I'm thinking of getting a Wii ... I just wish they'd called it the Revolution instead :)
    • Re:Bogus (Score:5, Insightful)

      by FortKnox (169099) * on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @02:46PM (#16148454) Homepage Journal
      I disagree. Dedicated gamers want a break from the same-old. It all comes down to the Wiimote. We've seen how different controllers can do so much (DDR, anyone?), but the Wiimote can affect every type of game you play. If the Wiimote charm wears off after a few weeks, the Wii could die a painful death. If they keep coming up with new and unique ways to get the gamer INTO the game (I swing the sword instead of pushing a button), then the Wii with crush the market.

      I used to be a dedicated gamer (have a wife and kids, so I only play after 8pm on most days, now-a-days), and am eagerly waiting for the Wii...
      • Re:Bogus (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Wind_Walker (83965) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @03:11PM (#16148683) Homepage Journal
        I agree 100%. Recently I've found it hard to get excited about games which amount to little more than "same gameplay as last year, but shinier graphics". I want new experiences in games, not just the same thing with a shinier coat of paint.

        The Wii is in a great position to deliver exactly that. "Good enough" graphics and real, true innovation in controls for the first time in years. And since it's not an after-market product which only a small percentage of the owners will have (like the Power Glove or eReader) then developers will be able to confidently use the controller in new ways.
        • Re:Bogus (Score:5, Funny)

          by Pharmboy (216950) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @05:52PM (#16150019) Journal
          If Nintendo would use the commercial I found on Google Video [google.com], then they couldn't build them fast enough... ;)

          Funniest. Apple ripoff. Ever.
      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by tommertron (640180)
        dedicated gamers want a break from the same-old.

        I don't disagree with that. Many gamers are tired of the same old formulas. BUT The only problem with Nintendo trying to change things up is that they just can't shake their image of making 'kids' games. Tell anyone you know, hardcore or casual gamer, about the Wii and they'll say "But Nintendo just makes kids games."

        Nintendo has to get some SERIOUS third party support or stop making games that look like pre-school shows. I love a lot of Nintendo's games,

        • Re:Bogus (Score:5, Insightful)

          by AuMatar (183847) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @03:26PM (#16148814)
          Its popularity would be 0. Added elements of gore or warfare wouldn't add anything, it would detract from the fun. Stop thinking that the majority of gamers are 13 year olds with maturity issues- most of us have interests other than how much blood splatter is in a game.
          • Re:Bogus (Score:5, Insightful)

            by MBGMorden (803437) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @03:49PM (#16148989)
            People have to stop associating a "mature" title with blood, gore, or anything of the sort. That's not what 90% of the people who want a mature game care about. I'm 24 now, grew up on Nintendo, and generally avoid violent games (played GTA for 5 minutes and quickly grew tired of it).

            I still play a lot of Nintendo games, but they invariably end up coming off very kiddy, or rather "goofey". People often try to pass of "goofiness" as fun - it's not. Sure some games can be fun in spite of it, but it's not a good thing. Take Zelda: Wind Waker for example. The main hero is a pre-teen kid who is supposedly fighting monsters left and right (while adults stand around talking to this kid like he must save them). The base story is actually interesting, but it's interrupted by gimmicky things like a talking dragon boat. To top it off I'm watching this whole thing unfold via graphics that look like a Saturday morning cartoon.

            Do I want any of this replaced by sex or violence? No. I want it replaced with a serious atmosphere. Try telling people that "Green Eggs and Ham" is just as good a book as "Pride and Prejudice" just because it's fun for all ages. You'll get some weird stares.
            • Re:Bogus (Score:5, Interesting)

              by AuMatar (183847) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @04:08PM (#16149163)
              I'd consider Green Eggs and Ham the superior book. I hate Jane Austen.

              The Dragon Boat was a bit silly, yes. The age of the hero- who cares? Its the gameplay that matters, and the gameplay was damn fun (except for the sailing parts).

              You say to stop assuming people mean gore when they say mature. I've never seen any other definition put forth by those wanting it to be more "mature" other than blood and guts. Please tell me how changing the age and graphics style of Zelda would have made it more fun- because I honestly can't see it.
              • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

                by aeoo (568706)

                I've never seen any other definition put forth by those wanting it to be more "mature" other than blood and guts. Please tell me how changing the age and graphics style of Zelda would have made it more fun- because I honestly can't see it.

                This is easy. Mature gamers want RPGs that explore mature situations, such as the relativity or grayness (as opposed to black and white good vs bad) of morality, the complexity of emotions and so on.

                The kiddy RPG has the good guy beat the crap of the bad guy and save the

            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              by Golias (176380)
              People have to stop associating a "mature" title with blood, gore, or anything of the sort. That's not what 90% of the people who want a mature game care about.
              ...
              Do I want any of this replaced by sex or violence? No. I want it replaced with a serious atmosphere. Try telling people that "Green Eggs and Ham" is just as good a book as "Pride and Prejudice" just because it's fun for all ages. You'll get some weird stares.


              And with that post, MGBMorden wins the thread.

              The Nintendo is not being called "kiddy" for
              • Re:Bogus (Score:4, Insightful)

                by normal_guy (676813) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @04:31PM (#16149390)
                There's a place for the realism of Forza/Gran Tourismo, and there's a place for fun. I've had many more hours of fun shooting shells at my buds in Mario Kart for the Cube than I have gathering kudos in Project Gotham or unlocking my fiftieth Ford Escort upgrade in Gran Tourismo.
              • Re:Bogus (Score:5, Insightful)

                by Wind_Walker (83965) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @05:02PM (#16149676) Homepage Journal
                It's being called "kiddy" because the majority of their titles look completely ridiculous.
                You say Wind Waker looks ridiculous, I say Dead Or Alive: Xtreme Beach Volleyball and BMX:XXX look ridiculous. Oh, but those are "mature" titles. Riiiight.
            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              by Fozzyuw (950608)

              It's always a beef with me to those people who say "Zelda: The Wind Waker"(Z:WW) was too "Kiddy". Being 27 and playing and enjoying everything from (in my history of gaming) Mortal Kombat, GTA, all Zelda's, Doom's, Half-Life(CS, DoD, etc), Warcraft(I,II,III, WoW), Silent Hill, Resident Evil, etc... I have to say not only was Z:WW a fun game to play that added many features (despire the often annoying tedum of long boat rides) but it was by far one of the best 'looking' games out there.

              If most games put as

            • Re:Bogus (Score:4, Insightful)

              by jdbo (35629) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @07:02PM (#16150424)
              Sure, you'll get weird stares from people who've confused maturity with rejecting all pleasures associated with childhood.

              "Pride and Prejudice" is an excellent book for adults; however, it's a downright awful book for pre-teen children, and most teenage children need to be "prepped" regarding the background elements of the story to actually enage in it. It REQUIRES maturity to be enjoyed.

              Meanwhile, "Green Eggs and Ham" is enjoyable by children AND adults with a sense of whimsy and word-play - and also who enjoy beautifully-executed illustrations. Maturity is irrelevant to its enjoyment at any age.

              You're reaching for a point regarding maturity (which is required for understanding P&P), but you're confusing "goofiness" (a style which shows up in many mature works - Thomas Pynchon, Davis Foster Wallace, Vonnegut, etc.) as being maturity's opposite. Sure, in particular contexts they can occasionally come to cross-purposes, but goofiness != immaturity.

              Goofiness will often conflict with seriousness, but it's just as much a mistake to equate "maturity" and "seriousness" as it is to conflate "maturity" and explict gore/sex/language.
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by Firehed (942385)
            No kidding. I'm having an absolute blast with Lego Star Wars II, and it definitely has a kid feel to it. Mind you, I'm not that old (19 next week), but you can really only play so many FPS games before they all blend into one long rampage, and really do lose the appeal. The 360 and the PS3, aside from being produced by companies that I hate, are really just more of the same, and have no appeal to me whatsoever. Not only will the Wii let me play all of the crazy new games Nintendo puts out (however child
        • Tell anyone you know, hardcore or casual gamer, about the Wii and they'll say "But Nintendo just makes kids games."...but hardly any of my friends will touch them because they look like they're for little kids.
          Hang in there buddy - Middle School will be over before you know it.
        • Re:Bogus (Score:4, Insightful)

          by steveo777 (183629) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @04:33PM (#16149411) Homepage Journal
          The association problems aren't with the games as a whole, but the games that Nintendo themselves produce.

          Mario and all his buddies's games do not have any adult atmosphere to them. Aside from Mario stealing the occational kiss from Peach... Mario's buddies aren't really attractive to the 'adult theme'.


          Then there's Link and the Legend of Zelda series. With the last iteration on the GCN (which was still an absolutely amazing game) they did 'kiddie-ize' the poor sword slasher. But they will make up for that with Twilight Princess. Talk to anyone and they'll probably tell you that Ocarina of Time was the best in the series. I believe it was too.


          Next up, Samus Aran. You want a bad-ass chick, you've got her. Lara Croft can play with Barbie dolls and shoot at whatever and the DOA chicks can go get the breasts enlarged all day long, they'll never equal the cool of Samus. There are very adult-themed games with the Metroid series. Ever actaully read the journal entries in Prime 1 and 2? They start to inspire a lot of fear and suspense. Hell, I hated running through the dark world on Prime 2 because it got my nerves frayed every time (the only problem I had was the slow regen in the 'safe' areas, took a bit away from the suspence if you could just find a safe refuge in a hallway and walk away from the game for a few minutes).


          Starfox... Poor Fox... He's really gotten the shaft. Nintendo tries to make him great, but the formula was only good in the first couple of games. I picked up the DS version and though the strategy part was very intuitive, I still don't really enjoy the combat. Here's hoping for an excellent Wii iteration.


          I believe those are Nintendo's main four. But feel free to correct me if I'm wrong or I've missed something. Or just add some comments about the rest (Kirby, Earthbound, Harvest Moon...)

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by EEBaum (520514)
          I love a lot of Nintendo's games, including almost all of the Mario titles, but hardly any of my friends will touch them because they look like they're for little kids.

          OK, so maybe Mario won't hit it off as well in the 14-20 self-conscious male demographic. As a 25 year old male who had a blast playing Mario Kart and Mario Party 6 with another 25 year old male last night, I beg to differ regarding the "kids' games" claim.

          Only in recent years has Nintendo been labeled a maker of kids' games. People la
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Thuktun (221615)
      I finally got my kids to stop saying "Wheee!" after watching a certain Firefox ad. [youtube.com] I hesitate to think what will happen if they get a Wii for Christmas.
    • Re:Bogus (Score:5, Insightful)

      by masklinn (823351) <slashdot,org&masklinn,net> on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @02:52PM (#16148524)

      Wii isn't targetted at "dedicated" gamers

      I disagree. "dedicated" gamers (as opposed to the ricer-type that just wants "mature" because games without blood are "for sissies") want fun above and beyond everything else. They want good, interresting, quality games.

      If they're available on the Wii, they'll dig the wii, just as they're digging the DS because it has awesome game and because the stylus makes many games fun again.

      • by B3ryllium (571199)
        That's a good point, and you're right - I was referring to "ricer" gamers. Also, when I said I don't own a console, I neglected to mention that I do own a DS :) I don't have many games for it, but it's a fun unit. :)
      • just as they're digging the DS

        I own a DS and I love it, but I still feel like a nerd playing it in public, as I have yet to see ANYONE over 20 playing with one in public. But I see tons of teenagers and young adults with PSPs. Most adults don't even know what the hell a DS is, but everyone knows what a PSP is I find.

        • Re:Bogus (Score:5, Insightful)

          by jregel (39009) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @05:19PM (#16149804) Homepage
          I work in an IT department of about 20 people.

          Four of us own Nintendo DS.

          One owns a PSP.

          The games are simple and fun - that's why I bought a DS (and it's much cheaper than a PSP!). I like games I can play for five minutes and then get back to work (Brain Training, Project Rub etc...). We're all in the 20-30 age range.
    • by clu76 (620823)
      Though Nintendo is focusing a lot of attention towards the casual gamer, I think the wii has plenty to offer to the dedicated gamer as well. Being a dedicated gamer myself (been playing games actively since Zork,) I find it odd so many other gamers are willing to dismiss the wii, without playing it.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by kinglink (195330)
      This is the perfect console for ALL gamers. Casual will get into it because it's unique, die hards will get into it because it's new. I'm sick of block buster graphics and little gameplay. I'd rather an interactive/VR system than having more ground breaking graphics.

      Graphics are good in theory, but new ways to play games work far better.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Salis (52373)
      Hear, Hear!

      If the Wiimote actually works as expected, then I think both the "hardcore" gamers AND the casual gamers will snatch this console up. The hardcore gamers will get it to experience a truly innovative gaming style (and for only $250, why not??) and the casual gamers will get it because a) it's cheaper than the others (again, only $250!), b) it's got Mario Brothers/Zelda/etc, and c) the Wiimote looks cool.

      The Wii will Win. 'Nough said.
    • Re:Bogus (Score:4, Insightful)

      by COMON$ (806135) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @04:25PM (#16149334) Journal
      I second that.

      I am all about the casual gaming, and the wii fits right into my mindset. Something that I can pick up, burn a hour or so and get back to work. Or something my wife can get into as well (hard to phrase that without inviting a lot of sex jokes).

      But all in all, I see PS3 and XBox as teen status symbols and hard core gamer items. The People who do use the xbox and PS3 use it so much it is no fun to play with them unless you can keep up with the hours they put in. Dont want any part of that, waste enough of my life as it is on games.

      The wii on the other hand is going to fit quite nicely into my entertainment center. From the games I see, I would have no problem inviting my friends in picking up a game of golf.

  • I'd say yes.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by joshetc (955226) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @02:42PM (#16148411)
    expects the PS3 to sell 71 million units by 2011, compared with 40 million units for the Wii

    As everyone knows the PS3 will be sold at a loss throughout most of its lifetime, while the Wii will be at an unknown profit through its lifetime. I'd say thats pretty successful if they sell anywhere in that area. Even if they only have $1 profit per console thats a lot more profit than -xx million.
    • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

      by jimstapleton (999106)
      I plan on getting a couple of those PS3s when a variant of BSD runs on them.

      Don't actually plan on getting any games, I just want a cheap and powerful computer, subsidized by a company known for being anti-consumer.

      I plan on getting a Wii too, and some games.
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by spun (1352)
      Sure, the PS3 will be sold at a loss, but look at the numbers, they'll more than make up for it in volume!
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by madhatter256 (443326)
      I agree. If lets say for each PS3 sold, Sony loses $100 per console, whereas the Wii costs $130 to build but they sell at $250. This number is based on how much it costs to make the GC if they keep on making them the cost of making one is actually around $80, so the Wii costs $50 more to manufacture. Now lets say that Sony sells about.... 10million consoles before its first pricedrop, the same with the Wii console, they sell about... 5million (realistically) before their first pricedrop. And lets say that t
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Rallion (711805)
        There is a little bit of complexity to the profits from game sales, there. Nintendo develops their biggest blockbuster games themselves, which means that they get a LOT more money per game sold -- I'd say they easily make more than double the profit from first-party boxes than third-party. Considering how incredibly popular those first-party games are, that changes a lot.

        I remember reading that for third-party N64 games, Nintendo took something like $10 per game sold. I don't know if that was true and I hav
  • Dedicated Gamers (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ElleyKitten (715519) <kittensunrise.gmail@com> on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @02:42PM (#16148415) Journal
    Few expect truly dedicated gamers to choose the Wii over the PS3 or Xbox.
    The "truly dedicated gamers" are planning on getting all three. Everyone else has a limited gaming budget, and the Wii definately has an advantage in that regard.
    • by joe 155 (937621)
      I half agree. MS has been trying to get people into the idea of buying both a 360 and a Wii - I guess a few people will. I'm not sure about all 3, I wonder what advantage you get from getting a PS3 on top of a 360 (and if that is worth $600)

      Still, I consider myself a fairly serious gamer, or at least I used to be. I've always been happy just having one console at a time, there is so many great games to play on each console that you could play solidly for years and experience but half of what a console h
  • by urbanradar (1001140) <timothyfielding&gmail,com> on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @02:42PM (#16148416) Homepage
    ...since Wii-glorifying articles.

    We're seeing quite a few articles in that style right now, and I predict we'll see several more before the Wii launches. Creating controversy is an easy way to get hits. And controversy is easily generated by suggesting that a point that was generally considered to be long-established ("THE WII WILL BE THE BEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD!!!") may be incorrect ("...but will it work in the marketplace?!").

    > Few expect truly dedicated gamers to choose the Wii over the PS3 or Xbox. And ultimately, the advantage may go to Sony.

    The very point of Nintendo's strategy is that the truly dedicated gamer won't be their core audience and in fact only a small fragment of their audience. This seems like a non-issue to me.
    • by fotbr (855184)
      >The very point of Nintendo's strategy is that the truly dedicated gamer won't be their core audience and in fact only a small fragment of their audience. This seems like a non-issue to me.

      But the hard-core-gamer-mags won't admit that. The reviewers are biased towards more==better and the oooh-shiney factor. Since the Wii doesn't fit in their small view of "successful" they'll continue to dismiss it in favor of the Xbox360 and the PS3 that DO fit their need for oooh-shiney.

      • by masklinn (823351)
        The Wii is very shiny though, it has the same apple-like coating that is used on the DS Lite. Much shinier than a PS3 or an Xbox360.
    • by LWATCDR (28044)
      I don't know. The most hard core gamers I know are all dieing for a Wii. Sure some of them already have a 360 and are also dieing to get a PS3 but the Wii is also on their radar.
      I think the hard core will buy a Wii, XBox, and probably all ready have a 360.
      The not so hard core will probably buy a Wii and wait and see if there is any game that makes the PS3 a must have. After all everybody knows the best games come after the system has been on the market for a while. So why rush out and pay through the noise
  • Bad News (Score:5, Informative)

    by beckerist (985855) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @02:43PM (#16148427) Homepage
    ...yet I've only [rottentomatoes.com] ever [wordpress.com] heard [digitalbattle.com] bad [yahoo.com] news [avsforum.com] about [gamespot.com] the [seekingalpha.com] PS3 [ign.com]. The Wii is the first console I've ever been excited about, simply because it's meant for my gaming style: multiplayer, social fun.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by HarvardAce (771954)
      The Wii is the first console I've ever been excited about, simply because it's meant for my gaming style: multiplayer, social fun.

      Everyone keeps talking about Wii's multiplayer possibilities, but none of the launch window games are going to be online-enabled. This means you're going to have to play multiplayer with people ::gasp:: in close proximity to you!

      Kidding aside, is anyone else worried that he won't have enough room in his living room to fit 2-4 people with arms flailing wildly as they try to us

  • ADVANTAGE SONY? Though the Wii doesn't boast all the features and processing firepower of its rivals, Nintendo believes its easy-to-use controller will give it an edge. The Wii's wireless controllers can be moved through the air like a virtual sword, tennis racket, or weapon to pinpoint targets in a game or rifle through the Wii channel menu.

    You must provide enjoyable gameplay and a wide variety of game selections. Gamers do not simply choose a console for its controllers. To base your sales on the co
    • by masklinn (823351)

      To base your sales on the controllers is stupid.

      Exactly, Nintendo's "Touch Generation" touting the DS' touchscreen abilities and focusing most of it's marketting on it utterly failed!

      Uh... wait...

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by powerlord (28156)

        Exactly, Nintendo's "Touch Generation" touting the DS' touchscreen abilities and focusing most of it's marketting on it utterly failed!

        Yeah ...
        - The fact that the DS had games that were fun (and incidentally took advantage of the touch screen)
        - The fact that the DS provided a huge library (or an amortized cost) since it played GBA games
        - The fact that Nintendo was a virtual monopoly in handheld gaming when the DS launched ... all had nothing

      • by webrunner (108849)
        Touch Generation is a different marketing plan then the "Touch, you know you want to" style ads in the early DS lifespan. Touch Generation is the super-series of titles aimed at the more pedestrian non-gamer : things like Brain Age.
    • by fotbr (855184)
      Again, the hard-core-gamer-mags won't open their eyes that things outside their notions of "good" (consisting entirely of more==better and oooh-shiney) might be successful.

      Nintendo has been more consistant in providing enjoyable gameplay and a wide selection of games than the others. Yes, they lack in the FPS category, but again, the hard-core-gamers need to open their eyes and see other categories exist.

      The PS2 has been out 5+ years. I still haven't seen any games for it that would compell me to buy a PS
    • by cmburns69 (169686)

      You must provide enjoyable gameplay and a wide variety of game selections. Gamers do not simply choose a console for its controllers. To base your sales on the controllers is stupid.

      People will not purchase the system just because of the controllers. However, the controllers are meant* allow the kind of gameplay that will attract a wide audience. Without the controllers, that gameplay is less likely to occur.

      So, yes, sales will be based on the controllers.

      * Actual gameplay may not live up to the hype, howev

  • Of course it will. (Score:3, Informative)

    by nostgard (645633) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @02:44PM (#16148435) Homepage
    Nintendo is a staple of life for many gamers. Mario and Zelda are characters they grew up with. Even if it wasn't for the innovative controller, the low price point alone almost guarantees that many gamers will pick it up somewhere along the line.

    The fact that Nintendo's console is selling for a profit also means that they don't have to sell a bunch of game titles to get into the black -- if a person never buys another product from Nintendo after the console purchase, they've already made money.
  • by nsanders (208050) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @02:44PM (#16148438) Homepage
    I'm a 23 year old PC gamer. The only consoles I own are PS1, SNES, and NES. I do all my gaming on my PC (Wintel). My room mate got a PS2, which I never play, and while the 360 looks killer, I won't buy it for the price.

    A $250 Wii? HELL YES! The price point alone is what does it for me. That and the new controller just makes it a lot more interesting then the same old systems with new graphics.

    I think this will work really well for them. This will be the christmas present to buy for years to come.
  • Target schmarget (Score:2, Insightful)

    by iluvovaltine (1004099)
    Goal of all games: Fun (or learning, which can be defined as fun) Can the Wii provide dedicated gaming, RPG or turn based something or other? (rhetorical question)

    All this chit chat about game systems not yet released is like little boys talking about sex. The one who has already had sex keeps his mouth shut. He knows everything they say is bunk and will be debunked. The truth will be known.

    People still play the Nintendo 8-bit system. Nintendo knows this. They know quality lasts. Each system has its
    • by MooseTick (895855)
      "All this chit chat about game systems not yet released is like little boys talking about sex. The one who has already had sex keeps his mouth shut. He knows everything they say is bunk and will be debunked. The truth will be known. "

      What is this sex you speak of?
    • Goal of all games: Fun (or learning, which can be defined as fun)

      Call my cynical but I'm pretty sure the goal of all games these days are to make a profit for the company that designs/produces/distributes them. I hope that many of the games that I have played recently didn't have "Fun" as their goal because I'd hate to think that there are people on this Earth that can fail so miserably at a single goal.

  • sounds like business week needs to stick to what it knows and let the gamers do the thinking about games.
  • by thegnu (557446) <thegnu@gmailLION.com minus cat> on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @02:55PM (#16148562) Journal
    I live with 7 other people, and we have a shared food fund, which overflows into a house fund, and I'm totally going to lobby that we purchase a Nintendo Wii with it. I have only ever purchased (or my household purchased) an NES, a Gameboy, and a Game Gear (with its whopping 14-second battery life), and yet I am called to this glorious machine.

    My four-point argument for the Nintendo Wii:

    1. Legend of Zelda with sword-swinging.
    2. Metroid Prime with controls that rival PC controls. (Oooooh! A slogan: "Metroid Prime: get inside Samus")
    3. 4gb flash memory for under $50.
    4. $250

    I however do not really like any of the Mario Kart sequels nearly as much as the original. So yes, Nintendo can break my heart. Will they? I hope not. I don't even think it probable.
    • "Metroid Prime: get inside Samus"

      And next-gen's hot coffee scandal has begun. How long do you think it will take for someone to make a bootleg game that ...ahem... "uses" the wiimote in such a way?

  • by stastuffis (632932) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @02:56PM (#16148563)
    ..and now look as its place in the handheld market against the stronger and more advanced hardware that is the PSP. Bigger and badder does not equal better. Plus, I love how TFA claims Sony success without taking their idiotic tactics as of late.
  • It's getting old (Score:5, Informative)

    by steveo777 (183629) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @02:58PM (#16148586) Homepage Journal
    From TFA: "Nintendo thinks its game consoles--the Wii and the Nintendo DS handheld--will appeal to a mass market of first-time game players, women, and older consumers not typically drawn to this form of interactive entertainment."


    and more: "Though the Wii doesn't boast all the features and processing firepower of its rivals, Nintendo believes its easy-to-use controller will give it an edge."


    And finally: "There's also a danger that the Wii could cannibalize sales of the DS, which has been a smash hit with casual gamers thanks to its user-friendly design and titles..."


    Acording to Wikipedia, total sales of the DS and DS Lite are over 26 million world wide. This is equal to their Gamecube sales and that has been out since 01. I'd say we can call the DS and DS Lite both successful. Seeing as sales for the DS Lite are still hot, I don't expcect that comined number to sit under 30 million for long. The author is full of it, or a fanboy. He obviously hasn't done a lot of research. Nintendo is no longer hoping that the DS will appeal to anyone. Now they know.

    As far as the Wii goes, I know plenty of people who wouldn't buy a Gamecube because of its lack of 3rd parties. Though I own many games that are frequently requeseted when we get together like Mario Kart and even Robotech Battlecry. Well, ever one of these people is positively raving about how much they want the Wii. We'll see what they (and I) think after release. But I haven't heard one person say they don't want it. Reasons? Cheap, looks like fun, and "My [significant other] actually wants one too."

    Nintendo won't have a problem with this gen.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by hmccabe (465882)
      And what's more, I believe they are succeeding in their goal of reaching new markets for video games. I say this because my mother recently dropped some pretty big hints about how cool the pink DS Lite is and how it would be perfect to have the Brain Age sudoku with her when she's at the airport, and how Christmas is pretty soon. If they can get my mom to scheme for a video game console they way I schemed for the NES in the 80s, I'd say their marketing is dead on.
  • by RingDev (879105) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @03:00PM (#16148595) Homepage Journal
    I'm a PC gammer. I've been a PC gammer for almost 20 years now. And I have never owned a gaming console.

    That said, the Wii is the first console I've actually considered buying. If the first 6 months look good for it, and someone makes a light-saber game that works with the Wii-mote, I just might buy my very first console.

    What I am not interested in is a $3,000 system, which is what the PS3 or XBox is to me. $400-600 for the console. $1,4000-1,800 to replace my 48" projection with a similar sized HD projection. $200 for a few games and a controller, and $200 for new HD or Blue ray movies to take advantage of the HD tv and player.

    For $250 I can hit the ground running with the Wii. Another $200 for a few games and a controller and I'll be pretty set for entertainment for the year.

    -Rick
  • by brunes69 (86786) <slashdot@keirste ... minus physicist> on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @03:03PM (#16148622) Homepage
    The Wii has a built in advantage this analyst (as with most) seems to be forgetting, and that is, because the Wii sells at a profit from day 1, **Nintendo does not have to sell as many units to equal or better their competition** in terms of sales and revenue.

    The 360 and PS3 may sell more consoles, and those people may buy more games. But you need a lot more more 360/PS3 games sold to compensate and surpass for the profit loss the companies are taking on the consoles.

    I mean, look at the books of Nintendo vs. the Microsoft home entertainment division. Microsoft has way more boxes in the field, but is still way in the red. Nintendo is well in the black. And that's all that really matters in the long view.


    • Microsoft has way more boxes in the field, but is still way in the red. Nintendo is well in the black. And that's all that really matters in the long view.

      Grrr .. I hate this misconception. Microsoft does NOT have "way" more boxes out in the field. They are pretty close globally. (Unless you include the sales of the 360 as well, in which case, the comparison is dumb, cuz the Wii isn't even out yet) However, what *IS* true is that Microsoft lost about $4billion for their first venture and it's the SOLE reaso
  • by MuNansen (833037) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @03:05PM (#16148639)
    I guarantee you that I'm a more "dedicated" gamer than 99% of the people out there. I've been playing all my life, played almost every classic game and every sleeper hit in some form or another. I've played games on every platform, and I've played multiplayer games on competitive levels. I've played almost every MMOG in existence to some extent. Next month I'm joining one of the world's best game developers to work on what will be some of the next few years' biggest games.

    AND I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK ABOUT THE GRAPHICS ARMS RACE!! I WANT INNOVATION, NEW EXPERIENCES, QUALITY GAME DESIGN, AND HAVE A SHITLOAD OF FUN ALONG WITH IT!! THAT is why I can't fucking wait for the Wii to come out. It may not be the second coming, but the DS has proven to me that Nintendo means it when they're going for fun over graphics power. And if WoW, HL2, RE4, Shadow of the Colossus, and other games like them have taught us anything it's that you don't need the ridiculous power to have wonderful graphics.

    So all those people saying "Wii won't sell to 'true' or 'hardcore' gamers" or "Wii is for casual gamers, non-gamers, and families only"...you can all fuck off. You wanna prove you're more hardcore than me? Let's hop in a Halo PC or Tribes: Vengeance server and I'll show you what a real gamer plays like.

    And no I'm not bitter ;P Just tired of being called a lesser gamer.
  • Sony's worst enemy is itself. I don't think their outlook is as promising as the article indicates. Nintendo should have no problem at least cutting a good profit.
  • by Bullfish (858648) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @03:11PM (#16148686)
    The argument is dumb because it supposes that people will only buy one console. I have a PC, a gamecube, xbox and ps2. I am not the only one. Funny thing is, the gamecube gets the most use for gaming (out of the consoles). Nintendo is not about to vanish from the landscape and is the only console of the new three that looks to break new ground in going after an audience.
  • Wii will make it (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Rafajafar (217298) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @03:15PM (#16148718) Journal
    From 3 to 1, one being top system:

    Number 3 - PS3: The theoretical processing power in their 8 cells is fantastic. I've had it explained to me a few times by my friends (who also happen to be computer engineers), and it sounds like, if done correctly, *for the correct game*, it can be a real thing of beauty. 8 mini processors working in parrellel sounds great! However, if you know something about programming, you know that memory dependence is pretty important. For instance, if you do a simple loop, you have various operations dependent on one or two iterators. Let's say you assign these iterators to its own processor (yeah, stupid, but it's an example, k?) then that processor will be INACTIVE for LONG periods of time while another processor does it's thing. So in the most optimal circumstances, the cell technology is amazing, but in it's least optimal, you may as well be using a 386.

    Now the problem isn't that the cell power can be optimized, it's just that there's NO TOOLS TO DO SO AT THIS TIME. That's right, it's up to DEVELOPERS to optimize their own code, and I'm going to be honest, the learning curve and time that's going to be spent doing so is just not going to help this system.

    There's LOADS of other problems, too. Lack of units. High unit cost. Expensive cables that (opps!) aren't included. The fragility of the Blue Ray CRC (it's so dense that one tiny scratch can destroy an entire disc because it stops the error correction from even being able to do its job). And the lack of any real online system to be demonstrated.

    No question, this complete LOSER this round is PS3. It's time to move Sony next to Sega at the E3 conference. I bet those two will have lots to talk about.

    Number 2 - Xbox360: The Xbox is in a realm of its own. It focuses on games that are not innovative, but instead improves ever so slightly on older paradigms. In this, those "hardcore" gamers who enjoy playing the best shooters on a *controller* will enjoy the XBox (yes, I know they're coming out with new controls). Bloodlust, violence, action, and adrenaline are all emphasized in the XBox gaming system. Plus, it has a well established community of online players. Nothing new, nothing impressive, nothing to write home about, but very very consistent. Will not reach a wide interest, but reaches out to a market that is quite full of young angry males. And by quite full, I mean full enough to build an entire business off of them.

    Number 1 - Wii: This is not because I was raised on Nintendo. It's not because I owned the Mario/Zelda Cerial, subscribed to Nintendo power throughout the 90's, got up early as a kid to watch Captain N and the Super Mario World TV shows, owned mario comic books, and even paid to see that crappy Mario Bros. Movie. I had all but abandoned that company after my two fav gaming companies, Squaresoft and Capcom, left Nintendo. I'm supporting Nintendo because after ALLLLLL these years of CRAP... I'm amazed to find a company that puts out a QUALITY PRODUCT, who gets THIRD PARTY SUPPORT for this product, who INNOVATES the market using this product, who will successfully INTEGRATE other products into this product, and who has made this ANGRY YOUNG MALE feel like a DOE EYED BOY again. Part of me wants to ask Santa for this machine just to relive the feeling of not being able to sleep at night, waking my parents up to go around the Christmas tree in my footies to open the biggest box first and show a level of enthusiasm that only a kid on Christmas day could muster at 4am.

    Where to start? Old games. All of them. Downloadable (small price, price I'm willing to freaking pay). Eventual online play. Wifi. Wii controller. The most amazing Zelda game to date. DS connectivity. Reasonable price range. Company profit. Innovative games like Mario Galaxy. The return of third party support. And the list goes on and on and on and on.

    Yeah, hey, this guy is clearly out of touch with what it means to be a gamer if he thinks that people are all about the PS3. In fact, fire this man. He's a bad reporter.
    • Re:Wii will make it (Score:5, Informative)

      by oGMo (379) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @05:15PM (#16149779)

      Now the problem isn't that the cell power can be optimized, it's just that there's NO TOOLS TO DO SO AT THIS TIME. That's right, it's up to DEVELOPERS to optimize their own code, and I'm going to be honest, the learning curve and time that's going to be spent doing so is just not going to help this system.

      This is entirely inaccurate. They were demonstrating tools at GDC for this, and various vendors have engines already available. Also recall that the PS2 really was bare metal on release; it remains the most difficult of the last generation, and yet it was the top seller with the most games. And the PS3 is said to be very familiar to those who worked on the PS2, so...

      There's LOADS of other problems, too. Lack of units. High unit cost.

      Yeah yeah, it's the PS2 all over again. [salon.com]

      Expensive cables that (opps!) aren't included.

      Are you talking about HDMI? They're under $10 [mycablemart.com]. Which cables did you mean?

      The fragility of the Blue Ray CRC (it's so dense that one tiny scratch can destroy an entire disc because it stops the error correction from even being able to do its job).

      Well, since the Blu-Ray DURABIS2 can withstand steel wool [tgdaily.com], you'd really have to be mistreating that disc.

      And the lack of any real online system to be demonstrated.

      And XBOX Live! was going to kill the PS2.

      The Xbox is in a realm of its own. It focuses on games that are not innovative, but instead improves ever so slightly on older paradigms. In this, those "hardcore" gamers who enjoy playing the best shooters on a *controller* will enjoy the XBox (yes, I know they're coming out with new controls).

      The 360 is in the realm of FPS's and sports games, just like the original XBOX. Contrary to popular opinion, frat boys who play Halo are not hardcore gamers. They're casual gamers. Hardcore gamers are the ones that play all the games, especially the obscure and oldschool ones. They import the original before it comes out locally. They might have an XBOX, but only because they're completionists, not because having an XBOX makes them hardcore.

      This is not because I was raised on Nintendo. It's not because I owned the Mario/Zelda Cerial, subscribed to Nintendo power throughout the 90's, got up early as a kid to watch Captain N and the Super Mario World TV shows, owned mario comic books, and even paid to see that crappy Mario Bros. Movie. I had all but abandoned that company after my two fav gaming companies, Squaresoft and Capcom, left Nintendo. I'm supporting Nintendo because after ALLLLLL these years of CRAP... I'm amazed to find a company that puts out a QUALITY PRODUCT, who gets THIRD PARTY SUPPORT for this product, who INNOVATES the market using this product, who will successfully INTEGRATE other products into this product, and who has made this ANGRY YOUNG MALE feel like a DOE EYED BOY again.

      That is, you're a closet fanboy who has been waiting all these years to come out. Yeah, I grew up with Nintendo too, and read the magazines, saw the shows and movies, and didn't think much of anything else (Sega what? Sony who?). That said, "QUALITY PRODUCT" is premature, "THIRD PARTY SUPPORT" is hopeful, and "INNOVATIVE" is hype. Do you love your Wii? Is it bad? [youtube.com]

      Where to start? Old games. All of them.

      Actually, the virtual console launch list [play-nintendo.com] is only 26 games. 26 games I've played, too. This is ni

  • by MsGeek (162936) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @03:18PM (#16148735) Homepage Journal
    Wii. Wiimote. Lucas Arts. Jedi. Lightsaber. Game.

    It's coming. And it will mean Wii will be the platform to beat. The Lucasfilm presentation at Comic-Con showed some of the other aspects of coming Lucas Arts games, like the Euphoria system which allows for truly unpredictable NPCs, and introduces a little bit of volition in the Player Character as well. The demo only made sense when you thought of it in the context of the Wii and its Wiimote.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjlFTihRwAk [youtube.com]
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by cowscows (103644)
      After watching that video, forget the lightsaber. I want to use the Wii controller to fling people around and smash them into things, not to swing around swords.
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by RyoShin (610051)
      Agreed in full.

      Games like Zelda and Mario are going to be million-sellers on the Wii, no doubt, but the Wii will probably get its first "general consumer" surge once a Star Wars lightsaber game comes out. While a good deal of people know who Mario is, EVERYONE knows what Star Wars is. All it will take is seeing someone in a game store swinging the Wiimote wildly, seeing that their actions are being reflect on screen with a lightsaber, and their next thought will be "Holy shit, I have to get this".

      Lightsaber
  • The main reason why the Wii can't fail is because the PS3 is totally out of reach for many gamers and will so for at least a year or two. The XBox360, while a solid console, simply doesn't have much of a stand in Japan and without Japan, it is in throuble. That of course doesn't mean that the Wii can't flop, if the controller turns out totally buggy with calibration problems and what ever, sure the Wii might tank and a price of $250 and $60 for controllers is also a bit more step than good. However when the
  • This is a stupid argument. I think it is pretty clear that bigger and better always wins over something "new". I can't think of a single instance in the past few years when a more expensive and powerful gaming machine lost to one that simply had an innovative interface and games to take advantage of it. Nope. I can't think of a single instance of this happening. *cough*Nintendo DS Vs PSP*cough*

    The battle has already been played out. Round 1 has already been fought. Simply put, Nintendo won. The Nint
  • by Dracos (107777) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @05:05PM (#16149699)

    There's no mention of the opening unit count for PS3: 400,000. According to this article, that's 10% of the number of Wii's expected to ship this year. Sony will have a hard time recovering from the glut of bad press surrounding PS3's near unavailability, combined with the inevitable "game stores hock their PS3s on eBay for $$$$$$$$". It happened with Xbox 360, it'll happen with PS3. Id bet that there's at least 400k hard-core console gamers between the US and Japan... it's possible that 60% of the units end up on eBay for prices upwards of $3000 (360 auctions peaked at around $1900, iirc). No less-than-hard-core console gamer (who happen to have a pile of cach on hand) is going to get their hands on a PS3 for months.

    Then there's the PS3 sub distribution: 80% of all PS3's will be the more expensive units that can display HD content. HD isn't going anywhere as fast as the media indistry hoped. Sony is betting on a miracle.

    Meanwhile, MS is going to keep pushing products that fit in with the market they watched boom for 10 years or more with little change. MS doesn't even fully understand games. They don't innovate anywhere, they're certainly not going to start here.

    Nintendo has once again realized that the console market has stagnated, and have taken upon themselves to pull out of the rut. The original NES was innovative, and the Wii is more so. Every console system since 1985 has been based partly on the NES (mostly the controller). I fully expect console gaming 20 years from now to be ready to pull out of the rut created when the entire industry decided to copycat the Wiimote.

    Verdict:

    • PS3: Low availability + insane price = failure
    • XBox 360: status quo + time = status quo
    • Wii: Low price + innovative game play + (compelling & exclusive titles) = winner

    I'm not a console gamer, but I have some common sense

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by justchris (802302)
      That's not entirely correct.

      The release day allocation for the PS3 is 500,000. 400k will go to the US, 100k will go to Japan. The full year allocation (for 2006) for the PS3 is 2,000,000.

      The full year allocation for Wii is 4,000,000. They have not given specific release day numbers, but they are releasing in all 3 regions (+ Australia) within 4 weeks.

      Conclusion: Wii will only be slightly less scarce than PS3 by the end of the year. Both will sell out beyond a doubt. 360 will benefit from this wit

  • by ursabear (818651) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @05:45PM (#16149976) Homepage Journal
    I think the Wii stands a chance in the marketplace. Will it be number 1? Probably not. Will it do very well? I think so.

    IANAFanboi of any console or platform (I really don't care about the box, as long as I can enjoy the game - we have PS2, XBox, PC, and Mac games we play from time to time...)

    Why do I think it stands a chance? My kids summed it up quick: It's not a zillion dollars, doesn't come in a zillion "versions", some of the games sound neat, and they think the controller interface(s) is/are cool and different. I happen to agree with them. I don't think I'll be doing Dance Dance Revolution (or anything like that, I'm not that graceful), but I'll enjoy doing something different with how I'll interact with the games. Besides, I can get a new plunk-around guitar for the difference I won't have to pay between a Wii and a well-equipped PS3.
  • by aztektum (170569) on Wednesday September 20, 2006 @11:51PM (#16151581)
    At first I was a bit dismayed with the 250 price. I don't have a buncha spendable cash like some, but after thinking about it, 250 still seems like a deal for a system that wants to try something this ambitious.

    It's the kind of device that I think was designed the way products SHOULD be designed. Someone with an imagination said "What if...?" rather than a marketroid saying "We want to try and appeal to such and such a market so we're going to release products based on this data."
  • by LKM (227954) on Thursday September 21, 2006 @03:56AM (#16152084) Homepage
    Few expect truly dedicated gamers to choose the Wii over the PS3 or Xbox

    Come again? Who the hell are those "truly dedicated gamers" that prefer a 360 or a PS3 to the Wii?

    I have in my living room right now about a dozen consoles - from the Pong to the Gamecube. I have about 30 more consoles stored in various places. I own tons of new and vintage consoles. I also own portables. I own a PSP, a DS, and every version of the GBA. I am a "truly dedicated gamer" if there ever was one. Guess what? I haven't yet bought a 360. When it came out, I thought I'd get one about a year after release, but so far, there's simply nothing which compells me to buy one. I probably won't get a PS3 until late in its lifespan, either. There's simply not a whole lot of stuff going on with those two "next-gen consoles" that excites this particular "truly dedicatd gamer." Same games with better graphics? Sign me up... Not!

    I'll get both a 360 and a PS3 - as soon as some really compelling and interesting games come out for them, and as soon as the prices start to reach less absurd levels. For now, neither console interests me all that much.

    I will, however, get a Wii the day it comes out.

    Because I'm a "truly dedicated gamer," not despite of it.

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