Is There a Solution for Focus-Hungry Apps? 131
V.Toulias asks: "Over the past few years, I have seen a rise in the percentage of applications installed in my Windows box that do not ask nicely for my attention but force themselves into view when they think they have something important to tell me. Mail clients that pop-up into view when a new email is sent or received, instant messengers that pop up when a new message arrives, browser pop-ups that... pop-up even though the page is loading in a 'background window', informational OS messages, It-seems-that-you're-writing-a-letter app helpers, security warnings and the list goes on. It doesn't take a science study to realize the adverse effects that this phenomenon is causing on your productivity and concentration. So, apart from the obvious suggestion of switching OS, is there any other solution to this disturbing trend?"
The Options Menu (Score:5, Informative)
Re:The Options Menu (Score:2)
Re:The Options Menu (Score:2, Insightful)
Last time I had an update it popped up with the default action set to Update.
It grabbed the focus whilst I was typing a comment like this and upgraded without my explicit consent.
I was VERY annoyed with that action.
The browser should be able to check for updates on startup only (I want the updates and to be told about them, just not in the middle of a session)
Re:The Options Menu (Score:2)
I'm not sure if that, on its own, would be a good solution. What about those of us who rarely restart Firefox? Yes -- we exist :). I restart Firefox once a week at most (it doesn't seem to leak memory as badly on Mac OS X as I hear it does on other platforms, and I have gobs of RAM installed :) ), and there are probably times where two weeks or more have pa
Re:The Options Menu (Score:1)
Think about this though, how many times do you click a URL from outside, or from an email or other application firing up an instance of a browser.
Those times you are expected to not be typing and could be considered as startup, however just popping whilst I am sitting on a page is the wrong thing to do.
Re:The Options Menu (Score:2)
I can honestly say: never. The web browser tends to be the first thing I load when I log into my system (and as I'm the only user of the system, I virtually never log out, unless it is either to reboot the machine, or to force FileVault to recover free space in my home directory, both of which are extremely rare. Otherwise I put my system to sleep when I'm no
Re:The Options Menu (Score:2)
If not, check under Control Panel --> Add/Remove Programs. You'll find that by removing offensive software from your system, your computing experience will be a lot more pleasurable.
Power toys (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Power toys (Score:2)
The problem, really, is that Windows doesn't really have a window manager, which is why virtual desktop tools and focus settings pretty much end up being ugly hacks.
Re:Power toys (Score:2)
Re:Power toys (Score:2)
Re:Power toys (Score:1)
BTW, what flavor is your anti-MS koolaid? Because you're on a fucking sugar rush from it.
Re:Power toys (Score:1)
Re:Power toys (Score:2)
Re:Power toys (Score:1)
Re:Power toys (Score:2)
Of course a stock installation of Firefox can't do those. But my original point was that Tweak UI makes Windows more usable, just as extensions make FF more usable.
Re:Power toys (Score:1)
Making Firefox more usable with extensions: Garnishing a rotten egg.
Re:Power toys (Score:1)
iTunes: crippled by Apple's arrogance that power users should be limited to a newbie interface so nobody get's confused.
gotta run, but I can detail plenty of flaws in iTunes when I get back.
Re:Power toys (Score:1)
Re:Power toys (Score:2)
* Locks hundreds of megabytes worth of pages when it's DRM-ing a movie, making the system unusable.
* Has deep ties into the OS that break other applications (PT_DENY_ATTACH, etc.)
I have a Mac, but I don't use any Mac-only software. My next machine will be a good-ol' Linux box. Free as in Freedom.
Re:Power toys (Score:1)
If it is not working for you, then you have either not configured it right, or there is something more seriously wrong with your OS.
Re:Power toys (Score:2)
That's an awesome definition of "work". You should submit to the OED! ;-)
Re:Power toys (Score:1)
The problem is this:
Re:Power toys (Score:1)
As for the context menu problem, it's an annoyance, but I've always been able to get them to work properly by never moving the mouse out of the context menu. With Combo dropdowns (depending on the app), after clicking the arrow, I have to move directly down to the drop do
Terminal-Based Applications (Score:2, Funny)
Or, just don't use X at all. Install a program like screen to manage terminal applications, and then use them instead.
You can also install Cygwin and use it. There are replacements for nearly everything.
mutt/pine for email
lynx/w3m for web
emacs/vim for editing
etc.
Much nicer and faster, in my opinion.
Thanks for playing; join us next time in reality (Score:2)
Seriously, if you think for a minute any even semi-normal person is going to browse the web with Lynx, you're crazy. Nobody works out of a mainframe session anymore; nobody has login access solely on beefy Unix boxes. 95% of the world uses Windows; some 80% or so use IE. The reality is that except for a very few exceptions, the world moved beyond the life l
Re:Thanks for playing; join us next time in realit (Score:1)
Re:Thanks for playing; join us next time in realit (Score:2)
(And admittedly, I myself was once not far from the "all command-line, all the time" camp, using Firefox as about the only GUI app I ran on my Linux desktop for a while. So when I see these sorts of posts, I can't help but laugh...)
Re:Thanks for playing; join us next time in realit (Score:2)
I'm currently using Firefox to type this, Thunderbird for email, XMMS for music, Gaim for IM, Kate for my coding -- and about a
SetFocus(), oh how I hate thee. (Score:4, Insightful)
The second thing I'd like to do is disable those stupid XP security warnings the poster talks about.
So far, I haven't been able to find a way to do either.
Re:SetFocus(), oh how I hate thee. (Score:2)
The joys of OSS.
Re:SetFocus(), oh how I hate thee. (Score:2)
This sounds great, but would probably have major impact to the usability of everything in windows. From my understanding of Win32API, this would break about 90% of what's written out there. Perhaps you could get away with ignoring SetFocus where the windowHandle referenced wasn't in some way related to what you were working on... but that seems costly.
Re:SetFocus(), oh how I hate thee. (Score:2)
Download the PowerToy "TweakUI" from Microsoft, uncheck "Enable balloon tips" on the "Taskbar" option.
Re:SetFocus(), oh how I hate thee. (Score:1)
Re:SetFocus(), oh how I hate thee. (Score:2)
Should nuke all the little bastereds. _test_ first. I'm pretty sure that was it. It breaks, you get to keep both pieces...
Re:SetFocus(), oh how I hate thee. (Score:1)
Re:SetFocus(), oh how I hate thee. (Score:1)
Re:SetFocus(), oh how I hate thee. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:SetFocus(), oh how I hate thee. (Score:1)
Re:SetFocus(), oh how I hate thee. (Score:2)
Control Panel -> Admin Tools -> Services, set Security Center to Disabled.
For those annoying focus stealing reboot reminders, stop the Automatic Updates service from the same place when rebooting isn't desirable.
Re:SetFocus(), oh how I hate thee. (Score:2)
Re:SetFocus(), oh how I hate thee. (Score:2)
This is one of the things I miss about Mac OS 9 and earlier. It used to be that focus could only go from one application to another if the application you were in launched the other one. You could switch from an application to the Finder, launch three programs, and go back to the original before any of them
Use the force! (Score:1)
Re:Use the force! (Score:1)
Re:Use the force! (Score:1)
sc stop wuauserv
Unlike trying to close the process with task manager, this kills the service that's generating that process, and it doesn't come back until you use "sc start wuauserv" or restart your computer.
Re:Use the force! (Score:1)
two monitors (Score:5, Insightful)
I assume you're talking about Windows. This happens on the Mac to some extent, usually when launching apps - eg when I launch Mail then switch back to the app I was using, of course, new windows in Mail throw themselves on the top. This was not a problem in classic Mac OS which enforced application level window layers, which - to be perfectly honest - I prefer for this very reason.
But I've found two monitors do the trick.
Re:two monitors (Score:2)
Re:two monitors (Score:1, Insightful)
And this is a pity because it was not happening on NeXTstep. An application that finished launching was automatically put into focus UNLESS the user set the focus to any other app during the launch time (because I think Dock.app was getting the focus during hte launch).
App stealing focus is one of the most irritati
Even better (Score:2)
Use one monitor, and use a window managing system that allows virtual desktops (I like Windowmaker, personally). Then tell your window manager to keep new windows in the same desktop as their parent, and notify you of their existence via the appropriate mechanism (system tray, zenity-like translucent no-focus popup, scrolling OSD, etc.)
Focus stealing is one of the reasons I find the Windows GUI essentially unusable.
Re:Even better (Score:2)
Re:Even better (Score:2)
I don't see any shame in admitting that. Try Enlightenment; they have very "tactile" switching.
Re:two monitors (Score:2)
This isn't like Outlook, where you have to keep it running minimized because it takes so damned long to start, and there's no other way to alert you to new mail.
Re:two monitors (Score:2)
Re:two monitors (Score:2)
I think you speaketh s**t, my friend. I have two monitors on my XP workstation at work (complete with Tweak UI). Logging in when I arrive I'll be in the midst of typing my Outlook password on one screen while RDP windows pop-up on the other (so far, so good: focus stays where it should), but the first RDP window to get a login prompt from a remote server steals focus from the Outlook login promp
Re:two monitors (Score:2)
I don't understand how two monitors solves the problem. I have two monitors and I have to put up with applications stealing focus all the time. Start up Thunderbird or Firefox and go work on something else while they're loading. 30 seconds later, boom, there goes half a sentence into the Location bar.
Allow me to agree with everyone who thinks that applications stealing focus (on launch, on completion of a task, really any time except when they're about to delete your entire hard drive) is hateful. It's d
Can the bleeping thing! (Score:2)
Just think how much nicer life would be without a computer.
1. No pesky RIAA lawsuits.
2. No broadband bill.
3. No losing your life savings to pesky phishers.
4. No worrying about hackers stealing you megahertz.
and yes,
No annoying pop-ups.
Re:Can the bleeping thing! (Score:2)
No e-mail
No pr0n (well, less pr0n)
No web
No google to resolve all factual queries and read news
No real-time stock quotes
No internet banking
No way to make my MP3s
No way to learn about Snakes On a Plane [google.ca]
No internet dating
As much of a pest computers can occasionally be, the sheer n
Re:Can the bleeping thing! (Score:1)
AOL IM is the worst (Score:1)
Re:AOL IM is the worst (Score:1)
Try Gaim [sourceforge.net]. It's an open source client that works on the aim network.
Re:AOL IM is the worst (Score:2)
OSS? (Score:2)
That said, I don't have that problem except for the occasional webpage that forces a new browser window in a way that adblock, noscript and Firefox can't stop (don't ask, I don't know). Everything on my Linux box stays nicely hidden except when I need it!
Re:OSS? (Score:1)
Re:OSS? (Score:2)
#10 (Score:2)
Re:#10 (Score:1)
#4: pay more attention to what settings he's clicking,
#5: and name his files better if sorting is such an issue.
The others are harder to fix yourself.
I'd put focus stealing on #1 due to its frequency of harm.
Why not switch your OS? (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:Why not switch your OS? (Score:2)
It really does matter if you "own" the OS or merely "rent" it.
Re:Why not switch your OS? (Score:2)
A lot of the worst of it can be resolved through settings in various programs -- if you use something like GAIM for instant messaging and beat outlook into submission your desk
very simple solution (Score:1, Offtopic)
This isn't just a cop-out answer; I'm quite serious. You are essentially complaining about lack of control over what your software does. Well, take control of it!
Re:very simple solution (Score:2)
Incidentally, an offtopic moderation for suggesting open source software?! /. sure has changed in the last few years. :) I think that is the first negative moderation I've received since the moderation system was introduced.
the one that gets me (Score:2)
Re:the one that gets me (Score:2)
That is really annoying, especially when the dialog box contains absolutly no useful information.
Re:the one that gets me (Score:2)
Re:the one that gets me (Score:2)
it also doesn't try to register as a browser plugin leaving you with two sets of toolbars and a notecard's worth of space to read your PDF.
Use FVWM (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:Use FVWM (Score:2)
use better apps (Score:2)
gaim opens new IM conversations in a new tab
clippy is not a feature of open office (although the little lightbulb clipart popup thing is both ugly and a little annoying)
outlook just puts a little letter icon next to my clock when i get an email
WinXP Security Warnings (Score:1)
This applies to Service Pack 2, I believe:
In Control Panel -> Security Center, in the left-hand panel labeled "Resources", click the option labeled "Change the way Security Center alerts me". In the dialog box that opens, uncheck all the options.
It's more than just an annoyance (Score:5, Insightful)
One could write an app which monitors keystrokes and tracks focus, which calculates focus independently of the window manager, and detects any discrepancies, and corrects them as soon as possible, but it will still leak events sometimes, inevitably, unless it acts as a translation filter and checks at every event for correct focus.
Re:It's more than just an annoyance (Score:2)
( what was that ) O o . (Score:1)
Re:( what was that ) O o . (Score:3, Interesting)
Symptom of a larger problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Symptom of a larger problem (Score:1)
The popups and focus stealing are a symptom of a larger problem: application authors assume you bought a computer just to run their application.
That's not the real problem, though. App writers shouldn't be responsible for managing window focus, period. Window managers should take some fucking responsibility for what's going on and give users the ability to choose how focus works system-wide, as well as allowing per-application customization.
Growl [growl.info] does something similar (but just for notifications) on t
OS X and Textwrangler (Score:2)
This, unfortuna
AttachThreadInput (Score:1)
Pain in the bottom (Score:5, Interesting)
Anyhow a couple of points.
1. TweakUI does _not_ stop focus stealing. It tries to help but there are many apps and messages that slip through.
2. Swapping application is _not_ always viable. Either the alternative will cost a lot of cash or there is no open source equivalent that doesnt have the problem just as bad.
and a couple of opinions.
1. Focus stealing has _no_ purpose accept possibly to stress how utterly arrogant the developer was in thinking that his program is more important than what I am doing.
2. It _is_ an O/S issue. Im not so sure how bad it is with Linux and Mac's but Windows is a pain for it and it can cause serious problems. If your firewall or virus scanner gets an incorrect selection made because it pops up while your typing, thats a serious issue. It is no different to malicious emails and popups which MS try to stamp out. It wouldnt be hard for them to stop focus stealing altogether or even better have an option like in TweakUI only one that actually works fully.
Despite a lot of people being a little on the self superior side about this, as if your an idiot for having the problem. I dont believe there is currently any satisfactory way to stop it. Even if the suggestions ive read did work changing apps, changing O/S, using TweakUI etc etc. Non of it should be necessary. A little tick box should suffice.
(Maybe I have selective memory but I am fairly sure this problem is getting increasingly prevelant. I dont remeber much about Win9x doing it, I remember 2k doing it very infrequently. People really shouldnt have to put up with it at all.)
Re:Pain in the bottom (Score:2)
Re:Pain in the bottom (Score:2)
As the sib post said, not really. And definitely not just to tell me that it completed a scan and everything is clean, cutting me off mid-password for my email.
YES - Tweak UI from Microsoft (Score:1)
(taskbar icon will flash instead)
Download TweakUI (from MSN somewhere - google for it)
Under "General", select "Focus" in the menu-tree, top of screen is the above checkbox.
You can also get X-windows style focus and heaps of other cutomizations.
Re:YES - Tweak UI from Microsoft (Score:1)
I solved that problem at work by... (Score:2)
... using Windows a little as possible. I found the incessant interruptions from windows popping up at odd times totally unacceptable for doing anything that required any degree of concentration (coding, sysadmin tasks, etc.). Even if I could disable the pop-ups for, say, "a new email has arrived" -- which always had me grumbling "BFD! Email isn't a paging service!" -- there were the third-party applications that insist on popping up some darned window imploring me to upgrade or something or other. Even w
Ratpoison (Score:1)
Gaim and GNOME (Score:2)
Gaim steals focus.
KDE has the handy "Focus stealing prevention level" slider, that you can crank up to make popups less invasive. Unfortunately, GNOME does not have this. And, for various reasons, I need to use GNOME, not KDE.
I've played around with various settings, and the best I can find is to turn off alerts entirely in Gaim. This isn't the best solution, because it prevents me from ea
Re: Switching your OS (Score:1)
And similarly, there exists alternatives to mostly every other app out there. You don't like it, then switch!
Re: Switching your OS (Score:1)
Re:Learn how to use the OS you're running now... (Score:2)
Re:Learn how to use the OS you're running now... (Score:2)
If my mother were able to dink around with settings easily I'd have to change my number instead of firing up my "straight windows" box and telling her exactly what to do.