New Zealand Police Act Wiki Lets You Write the Law

PhoenixOr writes "New Zealand is now on the top of my list for cool governments. They've opened a wiki allowing the populace to craft a new version of their Police Act, the legislative basis for policing in New Zealand."

kiwis use wikis

Film at 11.

Cool government indeed.

Re:kiwis use wikis

Now if only this would catch on... we might actually see laws that are representative of what the people want instead of some asshole with a few hundred thousand dollars more than they should have in their pocket.

Re:kiwis use wikis

I don't think we would see to many of those laws. The final draft will be reviewed by a relevant body before submitting it for approval. Not doing so would be insane, as all manner of abuse could find their way into the law otherwise. The thing is, it will be reviewed by those same people that we are supposing take "financial aids" from interest groups. So they will just snip out whatever doesn't suit their agendas.

I know this is a police law, but think of the possibilities in other areas. What if I want to expand the definition of Fair Use? Or if I want to shorten copyright duration? Do you see those amends surviving even on the face of overwhelming public support on the wiki? On top of lobbyists there would be astroturfers for one thing. And let's not forget that usually the only people that are vocal about something are those with a vested interest. I wouldn't want the nosy bastards from some retarded Home-Owners association slipping in some ordinances that would, for example, prevent me from installing a solar array on my backyard because it "ruins the aesthetics of the neighborhood" or such. Particularly if I don't even live on their area but get covered by this laws.

I think is a good publicity stunt and it may even generate some novel ideas, but I just don't see it suddenly making sense of the legal landscape in any meaningful way. I'd much rather they put the existing laws in a database with strong referential integrity. That would be interesting.

Just some ramble =)

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Now if only this would catch on... we might actually see laws that are representative of what the people want

At least, those who have and know how to use an internet connection, so you get a bias there. From what I've seen, there's far too much libertarian

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Yes, but what if what someone wants is to steal your property?

Given the track record of open Wikis to trend towards vandalism, I'm interested in what policies they are going to put into place to stop stupidity.

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we might actually see laws that are representative of what the people want instead of some asshole with a few hundred thousand dollars

You might be onto something there. But I think it needs a snappier, soundbitey phrase. I'll throw in "Government of the

Re:kiwis use wikis

Not so fast. They've set the wiki up with a rather short-sighted password policy: any editor can set a password on any page that can protect that page from being edited or even being seen by anyone else. I'm having difficulty finding any pages that don't have passwords set ...

Re:kiwis use wikis

I live here, nothing cool about our government.

Hmm ... loathing of government for no stated reason ... high probability of right-wing lean ... posting as AC ... do I detect a denizen of nz.general?

Re:kiwis use wikis

You act like the default relationship with the government should be love. You should hate your government until they give you a reason not to.

Re:kiwis use wikis

Hating your government for no good reason is nearly as silly as loving it on the same basis. I would say one should be rationally engaged and emotionally disinterested in their government unless and until that government unduly interferes in your life or perpetrates some act you consider to be unjust.

But maybe that's just me.

Polity and Custom of the Camiroi

This was a science fiction story in which anyone could create a law. The visitor from Earth created a law saying that only qualified people could create new laws, arguing that otherwise someone might create a stupid one. The native said "Someone just did, in fact". The revert happened almost immediately, and the visitor was advised not to start a revert war: the reverter was described as "very good with the ritual sword".

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Mod parent up; excellent reference, and R.A. Lafferty is an underappreciated genius. 9 stupid laws means a severe loss of fingers; oh, how stumped the RIAA would be.

Re:Polity and Custom of the Camiroi

on a related note;

http://www.pyrsf.com/chapters/Wikiworld/Wikiworld.htm [pyrsf.com]

Vote for Deletion

I submit that the Title [policeact.govt.nz] isn't notable enough with this google search [google.com.au] only revealing one relevant link. As such I propose we delete this page.

nice!

Hm... so this means that young male techno-savy people are going to write the laws now? What do you think they will be?

1. Piracy is legal for any copyright that is represented by the RIAA or MPAA
2. Cute girls can't wear shirts
3. The new legal drinking age is 13
4. People over 50 aren't allowed to vote

???

d

Re:nice!

2. Cute girls can't wear shirts

So now they'll be wearing raincoats and turtleneck sweaters.
Thanks, dude.

Excellent

I think having the community develop laws together is a rather superb way of handling society. The more people, (generally) the better (IMO). The more people that have their hand in this, the less likely something will be left out. Also, since everyone in that society will have to live with those laws, I think it's best that the majority has the opportunity to shape those laws (granted, not everyone will likely use this wiki, but I think the concept is good).

Doing it this way, the way I see it, has the potential to mend gaps between people groups in a society by allowing them to discuss their ideas and explain and collaborate their ideas carefully.

I wish more governments could be run this way -- moreso by the people.

And having this online provides an excellent communication medium.

Extreme optimism

You've obviously never seen myspace

Not so cool

While on the one hand getting feedback in this manner is good, satirizing them is also important. [nzherald.co.nz] So its one step back one step forward for the New Zealand government.

why is it...

Why do i get the impression that the new Police Act will consist mainly of LOLcats?

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No, it will probably be something more along the lines of "Eric is a fag and his face is punishable by law." ~~~~

A Public Relations exercise

From the wiki (emphasis mine):

An official Bill is currently being written-up by parliamentary drafters, but in parallel there's an opportunity for others to suggest how a new Policing Act might look by contributing to a wiki Act.

OK, it's unrealistic to believe that New Zealand would let anyone write the law. That would lead to anarchy. However, what they're doing is trying to get people interested in the law-making process, and in the laws themselves by opening up this wiki. I can see a number of purposes this could serve:

1. Educational: teaches citizens about laws and law-making.
2. Political: by getting citizens involved in the process, they're more likely to support the new Act.
3. Police PR: gets citizens to think about policing in a new way and perhaps gain a new respect for the Police.

Re:A Public Relations exercise

"OK, it's unrealistic to believe that New Zealand would let anyone write the law. That would lead to anarchy."

Quite the opposite.

Anarchy is the absense in laws, so letting anyone write laws would move New Zealand further away from anarchy.

Allowing anyone to repeal laws might lead to anarchy.

Be wise to manufactured bogeymen

> OK, it's unrealistic to believe that New Zealand would let anyone write the law. That would lead to anarchy.

You've been reading too much government propaganda.

"Anarchy" is a bogeyman that governments trot out whenever there's a danger that citizens wa

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anarchy

This word is not a flashcard for any political situation you dislike. The fact that you are writing law means that the situation, by definition cannot be anarchic, and I think you know that.

citation needed

Police officers may not shoot people at random [citation needed]

It's not a good time to be a police officer in NZ

The timing relating to certain [nzherald.co.nz] issues [nzherald.co.nz] is not good.

Wow...

According to the New Zealand Police Act, the elephant population has tripled in New Zealand.

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so that is where this came from:

The New Zealand Mounted Police would receive epic mounts compared to the normal mounts used by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police [thotbot]

WikiWar

This smells of WikiWar all the way from the other side of the globe:

"Smoking marihuana is <s>illegal</s> <s>legal</s> <s>illegal</s> <s>legal</s> <s>illegal</s> <s>legal</s> <s>illegal</s> <s>legal</s> <s>illegal</s> <s>legal</s> <s>illegal</s> <s>legal</s> <s>illegal</s> <s>legal</s> <s>illegal</s> <s>legal</s> <s>illegal</s> <s>legal</s> <s>illegal</s> <s>leghal</s> <s>illegal</s> <s>legzzal</s> <s>illegal</s> <s>zzzZZZzzz</s> illegal!"

Re:WikiWar

How about:

Smoking marijuana is <blink>il</blink>legal.

That ought to keep everyone happy.

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"How about:

Smoking marijuana is <blink>il</blink>legal.

That ought to keep everyone happy."

The blink tag makes noone happy.

Peelian Principles

I think the Peelian Principles are still good and sound:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_Principles [wikipedia.org]

If only my country's police force would follow them.

Not Practical In The U.S.

As pointed out elsewhere, the people who would participate are too self-selecting. They would just be too small a segment of the U.S. population.

On the other hand, there is something to be said for "participatory" government. The people who take the trouble to speak up are the ones who are heard.

Re:Not Practical In The U.S.

As pointed out elsewhere, the people who would participate are too self-selecting. They would just be too small a segment of the U.S. population.

Well, yes. Citizens of New Zealand would be a very small segment of the US population.

Re:Not Practical In The U.S.

Wikipedia has some VERY serious flaws. For example, it is too vulnerable to vandalism, even though that vandalism is often easily fixable... if anyone happens to notice it in a timely manner.

There are other flaws as well. From my own participation, for example, I have found that often certain groups of people will "take over" a topic as "their own", and interfere with input from outside sources, however valid that input may be. In some ways this is analogous to problems we see today with "peer review" in scientific journals.

Wikipedia would be a disastrous model for anything having to do with government. It relies too much on the "good nature" of contributors. As we see very often, some people simply don't have any. And that is double true when it comes to government.

Can I contribute?

I'm not from New Zealand, but I think with a name like "Police Act" that the law should roughly state: The beatings will continue until morale improves.

It's worth reading this rant [everything2.com] on that popular joke slogan.

Awesome re-branding

Alternatively, it is proposed that all police forces throughout New Zealand be renamed "The New Zealand Yum-Yum Teddy Bear Strike Force Z"

Can work in some cases, won't work in many

It does work in cases where people don't care. Sounds silly, I know, but that's how it is. It will only work for laws people don't feel strongly about. Or laws that only one side (pro or con) feels strongly about and the rest doesn't care.

Take the US and imagine a system like that. Now, take a law about subsidies for agriculture for example. Will it pass? Certainly. The farmers are the only ones who care about it. Do I care? No.

Now take a law about capital punishment, gay marriage or abortion. Then grab popcorn and watch the editwars.

Australia

Isn't NZ part of Australia? What does your real government have to say?

gd&r

Re:Not such a good idea..

Opening a wiki for creating laws is insane. It would just invite vandalism, and instead of leading to formation of new laws, it would waste money and manpower involved in maintanence and moderation.

Yeah. I heard that someone also had a wiki to build an encyclopedia, but that's just as insane. It would just invite vandalism, and instead of leading to an informative and complete reference, it would waste money and manpower involved in maintanence and moderation.

Re:Not such a good idea..

Laws have to be constant, same for everyone, and not open to discussion or question.

WTF? Laws should be constant? So slavery never should have been abolished, I guess. They should not be open for discussion? Sounds like fascism to me.

It should be the exact opposite - laws should change to reflect the times, and they should be constantly discussed and questioned.

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Nobody said the result would definitely be used. The wiki is just being used to get suggestions and ideas...

Did you read the article?

The wiki does not allow people to write law. It is just for citizen input.

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"People are calling it 'extreme democracy' and perhaps it is." Actually, we've had a word for it for a long time: Communism.

Communism and democracy is apples and oranges. Get your fact straight.

Communism corresponds to centralised economic model, versus fr

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Democracy corresponds to elected officials setting law. Communism is a great many things, it is a social and an economic model first and foremost, but communism, as opposed to social democracy, is the idea that the sum [or a random selection, similar to a

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Communism is a great many things, it is a social and an economic model first and foremost, but communism, as opposed to social democracy, is the idea that the sum [or a random selection, similar to a jury] of the population set government policy.

No, please

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Communism will be an "extreme democracy" the day fascism will be a "benevolent dictatorship".

Isn't that day today? And yesterday, and the day before? "Benevolent Dictatorships" are exactly how fascism thrives. Keeping the trains running on time, building freeways, holding the Superbowl - that kind of thing. Without the bread and circuses, the fa

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He just wants to be poplar...

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New Zealand follows the German MMP system. We have one house of representatives. We will have 121 Seats unless there is another overhang next year. About half are directly elected, of which 7 are Maori seats. The rest are list seats allocated by putting in