Amazon Invests In Dynamic Pricing Model For MP3s 280
NittanyTuring writes "Amazon recently closed a Series A financing deal with Amiestreet.com, a startup selling DRM-free MP3s with a demand-based pricing model. All music starts out free, and prices increase for popular tracks. Jeff Blackburn, Senior Vice President for Business Development, Amazon.com: 'The idea of having customers directly influence the price of songs is an interesting and novel approach to selling digital music.' What does this mean for Amazon's own intentions to sell music?"
Novel idea (Score:5, Funny)
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I mostly listen to artists that don't sell a ton of records, where a big success could be shipping 20,000 or 50,000 units compared to radio acts that can ship millions. I don't know how their model would work in reality, but let's assume these tracks might be 25% the cost of a big radio single. The process values popularity over all other factors, doubly reinforcing it. Not
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I agree, the industry will not like it.
Re:Novel idea (Score:4, Insightful)
It's more or less supply and demand, but with MP3s the supply basically unlimited and almost free beyond the first copy, so cost can only fluctuate based on the demand. As demand rises so does the price. In durable goods you get a price reduction with a popular product because mass production will raise the supply and lower the manufacturing cost per unit. The amount and cost of supply and distribution can be a major factor in the consumer price of physical objects like furniture or automobiles. Supply is sort of a non-factor with digital media and so there are no production advantages to large number of units sold..
Re:Novel idea (Score:5, Interesting)
I may be way off base on this, but if I remember correctly, this is starting to sound like free market economics (supply and demand). As demand increases, so does price. In this case, supply for each individual song for practical purposes is infinite, so they will have to use an *adjusting* system to manage price. It solves several problems if done correctly.
At the risk of being redundant (on slashdot?), CDs are a dead medium. They are very expensive compared to digital downloads. They force bundling of musics that are not desired by the majority of people. They are fragile (heat, nicks, etc), though better than tape. They require an immense infrastructure (compared to digital files) to distribute. They make as much sense anymore as tape or vinyl did a few years into the age of CDs.
Those in the industry that learn how to grapple with this will survive and thrive. Those who do not, like so many other players in other industries before them, will die.
InnerWeb
Re:Novel idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah. A bit off base. First of all, demand by itself does *NOT* determine price. There's a huge demand for water, and yet it's not very expensive. In an ideal free market price is determined by the equilibrium between supply and demand.
Having said that, now I'm going to explain why normal supply and demand applies very, very poorly to the music industry:
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seriously man- I would pay for that
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The words 'dick' and 'cock' in English are slang terms for the human 'penis', of which only males of our species have one. Further, except in the case of extreme and rare genetic defects, male humans have exactly one penis. Thus using the term 'suck my dick orcock' is illogical as both terms refer to the same mal
pissed off customers, thats what it means (Score:5, Insightful)
And those that complain that $Friend bought $Song for $PriceA but now its up to $PriceC and its not fair that they have to pay more than $Friend for the exact same item
Re:pissed off customers, thats what it means (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:pissed off customers, thats what it means (Score:4, Insightful)
Besides, instead of saying, "Yeah, I was into that band before the got uncool," you will be able to say, "Yeah, I was into that band before they got expensive." This is going to be a boon for frugal hipsters and poseurs.
Re:pissed off customers, thats what it means (Score:5, Insightful)
Not sure where morals or ethics are involved. If I buy something for one price (even if that price is $0), and the price rises, I don't see why I should be prevented from selling it at the higher price. Obviously, to be legal, I would have to delete any copies that I may have of the mp3 after I sell it.
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To be legal? Which legal system is this? Intellectual Property is governed by different laws than physical property.
Personally, I would prefer the creation of some sort of "mass media" license which allows resale, and anything not under the mass media license would have to be negotiated face-to-face between the IP rights holder and the licensee. But no such law exists TODAY, so "to be legal," as you put it,
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Bullshit. If I own a license to use a software package, for instance, I'm fully able to sell that software license to somebody else. If I own a copy of an MP3, I can sell that copy to somebody else. The only thing I can't do is sell it to somebody else, and retain my own copy of it.
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Maybe. This is a legal grey area.
Federal district courts in California and Texas have issued decisions applying the doctrine of first sale for bundled computer software in Softman v. Adobe (2001) and Novell, Inc. v. CPU Distrib., Inc. (2000) even if the software contains an EULA prohibiting resale. In the Softman case, after purchasing bundled software (A box containing many programs that are also available individually) from Adobe Systems, Softman unbundled it
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>> versions when the band gets popular? What if I give them away?
> Er, maybe a sense of morals or ethics?
Well, as long as he wasn't selling COPIES, it'd be perfectly legal, not to mention moral and ethical.
Just like anything else you buy that goes up in resell value.
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I'm not saying it is "moral and ethical", I just want someone to explain why they think it's not.
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Pirates "spoil the market". They don't deprive anyone of anything.
This is the distinction between real stealing and "IP stealing".
There are plenty of alternative methods to "
Re:pissed off customers, thats what it means (Score:5, Funny)
One could set up an entire MP3 futures trading market! You could invest in MP3's, hoping that their popularity will grow...
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Re:pissed off customers, thats what it means (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:pissed off customers, thats what it means (Score:5, Interesting)
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What monopoly? (Score:2)
If not for the monopoly provided by copyright law
I'm not sure what monopoly you're referring to here, or how copyright law grants monopoly power to any particular actor in the music business. I'd agree with you if you'd said there is a music cartel (an oligopoly [wikipedia.org]) that has managed to manipulate copyright duration to its benefit, but I don't see a monopoly.
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A copyright on a specific piece of music gives you a monopoly on that music.
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Under the First Sale Doctrine, you are explicitly permitted to sell a copyrighted work you have purchased even if the copyright holder objects. There are some limitations for a "restored copyright". As I understand it, the "restored copyright" is when the copyright expired and then became available again when the copyright term was extended.
So if you have a legal copy of a current song, you can sell it to someone else.
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. If yo
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So if you have a legal copy of a current song, you can sell it to someone else.
If you have a legal copy of a current song, you can sell that specific copy... you can't sell as many copies as you want. The supply of legal copies is controlled by the copyright holder, therefore the copyright holder has a monopoly.
As an analogy, Ford has a monopoly on the Ford Mustang. Sure, you can buy a Ford Mustang, and then resell it used, but Ford has absolute control of the supply of new Ford Mustangs manufactured. The used market doesn't count, because you can only resell the supply that Ford ori
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Or they might be so dynamically unstable that the system would thrash itself a couple of times and then end up jammed in the opposite state from that intended.
The only control input is the price per copy, which as formulated has a destabilizing effect on market share. Charge more when there are more copies being purchased? That's not your usual supply and demand economics, certainly not with nonrival goods where ther
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others equally smart (Score:2)
There's this other novel object called "stock," bought and sold in much the same way via a facility in New York City, for which an obvious parallel to your moneymaking scheme is:
(1) Find new, unknown company which will later hit it big. Buy their cheap stock.
(2) Wait for
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I think this is a novel idea, and hopefully it will work well.
My only question is, will they go strictly by number of sales for a song overall, or will they continuously monitor popularity of each MP3 and then reduce the price again once the popularity drops?
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Initially, I know a lot of people who were very put off by eBay's business model. They were bitter about being outbid at the last minute, or seeing something that sold for $X last week, but now only finding similar items for $Y (where Y is greater than X). However, they don't seem to be going out of business. (Although admittedly they have done more flat-price 'auctions.')
There might be a lot
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It could get also get people like me who want to rebuy old, not-so-popular stuff to find a price they're comfortable with. It could reinvigorate stale music catalogs.
An intriguing idea.
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You mean like people who complain when there's a sale at $Store, and people riot outside because they purchased before the sale? There are demonstrations against Fry's every weekend, after all...
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Won't higher prices = more piracy? (Score:4, Insightful)
By nobody buying a track (which *could* mean piracy) the track's price would come down and then people would buy it?
Wow, I think I answered my own question! This sounds pretty cool - less known music gets more exposure and more popular music gets set at a price people are willing to pay. Now, will they actually have a supply of music?
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I think, to the potential copyright infringer, that the difference between $0.68 and $0.98 for an MP3 file is not enough to sway their choice. At either of those prices, the convenience of buying and being done with it measures the same against searching for black-market music repositories, filtering out invalid/mislabeled content, etc.
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10 songs per album @ $0.98 = $9.80
10 songs per album @ $0.20 = $2.00
It really adds up if you're on a budget and want some new albums. Especially if this ranges from free to $0.98 per song. Perhaps it's not that great of a price barrier for white collar professionals such as ourselves, but the forces of the market cannot be completely thrown out.
All this is moot, though, since I'd still rather own the CD or not listen to anything.
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Free-market piracy inflection point (Score:4, Interesting)
As the volumes increase, the price increases and the piracy might increase.
What is interesting is that this model possibly finds the "perfect price". So much for economic theory.
In reality, a pirate will not buy some low-cost stuff and pirate high-cost stuff according to some built-in threshold. Once they have free piracy access to music they will use that for everything they can.
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On the other hand I quite like a pricing model
Yes, but it doesn't matter (Score:2)
Yes, but it doesn't matter, because *fans* always buy the CDs, go to concerts, get the merchandise, or pass the buzz around to their friends. That's what makes them fans.
The non-fans are irrelevant to the sales ledger, since they would never have bought anything anyway.
The RIAA wants to everyone to pay of course, even if they've downloaded the music but hate it.
But that just shows that the RIAA are fucking morons. They can't distinguish between the economics of virtual
Fast Refresh (Score:2, Interesting)
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RTFM (Score:2, Informative)
This could work really well (Score:4, Interesting)
It also might open the door for more quality indies to actually make money. People might be turned off by high prices of what the RIAA cartel marketing is pushing, and go for the cheaper indie stuff. Then again, I am probably being too optimistic, as most teenagers will pay any price for "cool"
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SWEET! (Score:3, Interesting)
Finally! All that non-conformance pays off!!
Cheers!
Re:SWEET! (Score:5, Funny)
Says the guy with a Red Hot Chili Peppers lyric as his sig...
Umm read the article.... (Score:5, Informative)
Backwards economics... (Score:2)
Will all the cool kids be saying, "I listened to , back when they were only 5cents a track"? It would be worse than people obsessed with their low Slashdot UID!
Love it (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Love it (Score:5, Funny)
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When your songs get to a certain price, will you delete them because they're too cool?
This could actually be nice for some people (Score:5, Funny)
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Funny, for those of use who like to see bands play live, this is exactly what we have to deal with as a band gets bigger. There are more than a few bands that I've seen for free in small clubs or coffeeshops in their early days, only to see their popularity take off to
Might this help the long tail? (Score:5, Interesting)
It would be nice if there was a service like this that had just about anything ever recorded digitized and made available for download. Let the market sort out what's popular and what isn't, but give us access to EVERYTHING.
In this day and age, there is no reason why virtually every album ever recorded isn't available to buy a digital copy of.
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why not just have the robots play the music [capturedbyrobots.com] in the first place?
Brilliant (Score:3, Funny)
Can't fail.
And you wonder why? (Score:2)
While it's somewhat neat this is only going to make the unimaginative pop artist richer and the indie artist poorer. When this model goes live and pop goes for $$$$ don't sit there and ask why big labels only seem to produce pop. At least with the old static model the indie artist could still make a buck off a few sales instead of having to have half the iPod owning population buy their song to finally make the rent.
Or in a much shorter for
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Music production costs and if they never get a big enough fan base to make these songs pay out more then a couple of cents per download these guys are going to give it up.
So what will we have? We'll have the same old pop names riding high, getting more of the publicity while smaller indy artists will struggle. And even if they get a bit of recognition? Great, they're going to make as much over 20
Amazon music stock market (Score:5, Insightful)
Interesting and novel? (Score:2)
Bible and/or Scientology (Score:2)
I'll make a ton as the same 'customers' buy it again and again...
I better include a sony rootkit just to make sure....
No way the Big Four go for this (Score:3, Interesting)
On the other hand, maybe the simple model isn't true, and maybe popular = most everything that the average buyer buys, in which case it won't look any different to the average buyer, so except for the DRM-free part (another deal-breaker for the Big Four), why should the average buyer care?
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So? Fuck em, we don't need them.
Lots of good music on Amie Street (Score:3, Informative)
Oh, and if you happen to be interested in what I'm listening to, here's my playlist: http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/what-im-listening-t
In Other News (Score:2)
I was into them before it was cool (Score:2)
My $0.98 with of MP3.. .err.. comment (Score:2, Interesting)
If "Mr. Super-Cool" sells 1000 tracks a day at 0.98 then the artist makes some good money, but what about "Mr. Not-So-Cool"? His track sells for free, or very little, and the artist gets nothing, mostly because he's not popular. What if it was revered, AND you provided a library that was practically every song known to man? I'd gladly pay 98 cents for a song that I just can't find anywhere, lega
No more supply/demand? (Score:3, Insightful)
There's no such thing as supply and demand in this model. There's only demand, and the supply is endless. So why does an infinite supply with a finite demand not equate to free? Bandwidth? They certainly can get some advertisement into the pages of popular sound downloads.
This seems almost backwards
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
This wont work! (Score:2, Insightful)
Song costs $0.00 - I buy it
Song costs $0.20 - I buy it
Song costs $0.40 - I buy it
Song costs $0.60 - I buy it
Song costs $0.80 - I buy it
Song costs $1.00 - I bugger off to the itunes store
Well, I wouldn't, but many people would and you get my point. And this effectively means, this service could never reach th
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it's in the frickin' third paragraph...not like you have to read more than 10 sentences...
AmieStreet.com is the first digital music store propelled by social networking, where members of the community drive the discovery, promotion and pricing of music. All songs on AmieStreet.com start at a price of zero cents. As more people download a song the price rises, capping at $0.9
BRILLIANT! (Score:4, Insightful)
I can't wait for the madness that will hit once my script becomes popular in usage.
(Note, I'm not actually writing such a script, but someone will.)
Jane Siberry's been doing this for YEARS (Score:2)
SHEEBA.CA [sheeba.ca]
Frankly, I give her more than the average price. You should too - she's NOT rich, and could use the money... but if you're poor, then pay what you can.
RS
Pandora Tie-in (Score:2)
Bwahahaha!! (Score:2)
Expand the title (Score:3, Interesting)
"Patent troll firm Invests in Dynamic Pricing Model for obsolete patent-encumbered audio format."
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Why do we expect anyone to give us what we want?
* All prices USD.
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I never supported DRM and I don't consider it acceptable. Media without DRM is better, but not automatically good. I'm okay with a higher price, given that it goes towards the creation of music, not to some publisher that doesn't do anything useful. Fluctuating price is okay, actually I like that...
I might even download the free songs and just donate to the bands I like for their efforts. In my opinion the more popular a song, the less it sh
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I'm not singling you out either, I just find it amusing that everytime a new step is taken, another set of people (who may not have had complains about DRM, or the non-DRm being more costly, etc) come out and voice a complaint. Even if they are different groups of people, they a
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Re:I'm not willing to support copyright.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Most of the time when I see people on Slashdot talk about how things are "working out" with new music distribution models they normally forget to include the musician in the equation.
I don't care what anyone thinks about this. An artist shouldn't be forced to tour to pay the rent. Is it hard to accept making a lifetime's wage for a few years of work? Sure. But on the other hand it shouldn't be asking too much for the artist to cover the cost of overhead for putting out music, keep food on his plate and make a bit extra without having to live in the back of an Econoline van.
So most of the DRM/Copyright arguments has nothing to do with creativity or a society bolstered by its art. It mostly has to deal with people being greedy and not wanting to shell out for what they've taken.
Blame the RIAA all you want, but people deserve to make a buck when they've produced something that you're willing to listen to more then once or twice.
/rant
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In most other careers, one expects to work most days of each week, most weeks of each year. I realize that touring is hard (I've done it), but why should musicians get off easy? It would be one thing if all of the successful recording artists were actually publishing gre
Re:I'm not willing to support copyright.... (Score:4, Insightful)
By which you mean that your musical tastes are superior to that of the vast majority of other people.
I don't like any Brittney Spears music, I like a handful of Metallica tunes. Nonetheless I am willing to admit that if they have a million people who want to listen to their albums and Obscure Artist G has five--regardless of whether I like his music or I feel he is the modern equivalent of Mozart--they should be making more money for it. Demand isn't a perfect metric for everything, but it seems wholly appropriate here, particularly when it is each individual's decision whether or not to give a particular artist their money.
Because they have produced a good that you want. While I'm not going to go so far as the RIAA does and call it stealing, I don't see how people justify taking something without compensating the creator with specious arguments like "somebody else already paid them 10 years ago."
If it isn't worth the price according to whatever criteria you choose to apply, don't buy it. If it is, buy it. Not only does that compensate artists whose music you like, it will work to drive down music prices or eliminate poor artists if enough people agree with you.
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For the record, as I stated before, I don't steal music. I do pay for what I listen to. However, as you may or may not know, most of that money does not go to the bands.
Many people do like what they buy. Others are being herded like sheep; those with the greatest resources for marketing can take the money that might go to better art. It may not be a zero sum game, but it is indeed a game.
I'm not telling anyone what to like or not like. I just think it'
Yeah, not the best model (Score:3, Interesting)
"Logic" is too generous... (Score:3, Informative)
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