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Movie Burning Kiosks Coming To Retailers
Posted by
Zonk
on Sun Jun 04, 2006 06:33 AM
from the halfway-and-no-good dept.
from the halfway-and-no-good dept.
Vitaly Friedman writes "The motion picture industry is in talks with some major retailers about installing DVD burning kiosks in stores. It's an interesting idea, but one that almost entirely misses the point. Hollywood's movie distribution system is in dire need of a fix - very few will dispute that. Movie attendance has been suffering, DVD sales are slumping, and all the industry has managed to do is come up with a half-baked, unpopular download service and a scant handful of simultaneous releases. In another attempt to sort of give consumers what they want, the motion picture industry is thinking about allowing retailers to set up in-store kiosks for distribution."
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Movie Burning Kiosks Coming To Retailers
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Why would I buy... (Score:5, Insightful)
* Will last much less time than a standard DVD before failing
* Not play in all of my DVD players
* Mean I have to wait around for it to finish burning
* Probably cost as much, or more than, a regular DVD
I won't, that's the answer to that. Get with it Hollywood, you need to offer movies to download at a significantly discounted price, or with no DRM. Offering me less for more, which is what you try to do at every step, doesn't make me want to give you my hard-earned cash.
Distribution Economics from an early attempt (Score:4, Interesting)
(Last Journal: Wednesday March 02 2005, @11:08PM)
On-Demand downloads weren't very practical - but pre-loading movies as they're released works quite well, especially since that's what you're most likely to sell. A 1 Mbps network connection lets you download 75 GB a week, which is about 15 movies, depending on resolution, 2-disk-sets, etc. Hollywood seldom produces more than 10 movies a week, and Bollywood's pretty similar. (The pr0n industry produces a lot more.) So if you've got a cable modem or decent DSL connection, you can keep ahead of the mainstream movies and have some bandwidth available for CD-quality ad-hoc downloads. Network availability can be a problem - the obvious place to put DVD burner kiosks is in malls, but they often don't have cable, and they're usually far away from telco offices so DSL bandwidth is lower. On the other hand, grocery stores are usually in/near residential neighborhoods, so they've usually got cable nearby and often have decent DSL.
DVD+-R archival lifetime isn't so great (Score:3, Insightful)
Adaptation (Score:4, Insightful)
If only could they realize they gotta adapt instead of run hacks to keep the good ol' days.
There weren't plenty of typing machine manifacturers that started making keybaords and mice as well I think. They just tried to keep the old ways and ceased to exist.
Movie burning? (Score:5, Funny)
(http://www.sancairodicopenhagen.com/pro.html)
benefit? (Score:1, Interesting)
Let them know what you think! (Score:5, Informative)
(http://www.getogg.org/)
Oh, and if you'd be so kind, could you also let them know that The Pirate Bay is back up? They seem to still be under the impression that it's down... (PDF link) [mpaa.org]
Oh. You might need their numbers [mpaa.org]:
Washington: (202) 293-1966
LA: (818) 995-6600
New York (listed as their "anti-piracy office"): (914) 378-0800
Give value for money! (Score:1, Interesting)
If DVDs are sold for a reasonable price (here in Finland that is definitely not the case), then people buy it. And if the DVD burning kiosk should work, then they need to go down with the prices NOTICEABLE below the price of a DVD.
my 2 eurocent.
- Martin
I have one already... (Score:5, Funny)
It's called BitTorrent.
AE
Re:I have one already... (Score:5, Insightful)
Look, yes, the movie companies are almostly solely producing overpriced undifferentiated mush. However, it's clearly mush a lot of you want. As such, is it so crazy to suggest you either pay for it, or if you genuinely feel it's over priced, make a stand by neither buying nor copying? All you're doing by copying movies/music/games/etc. is saying to the producers "I want your product, but don't want to pay for it".
The MPAA/RIAA are both fairly clearly evil incarnate, I agree. However, copying everything you want is not actually going to help, it's just going to give them more legal leverage. If you actually feel things need to change, stop buying, and stop copying. Go read a book or something
Re:I have one already... (Score:5, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Monday April 03 2006, @07:23PM)
While I somewhat agree, you need to realize that (unlike most geek-oriented issues), that attitude reflects what the majority of humans feel.
People do not, and did not ever, respect the concept of copyright as more than a good idea in theory if not in implementation. But until very recently (historically speaking), individuals didn't have the option of violating copyrights on any significant scale, so the system remained basically intact.
Even prior to last 50 years, "piracy" still occurred (how many hand-painted copies of the Mona Lisa exist? I recall reading a number in the thousands recently). It just took much longer, and the resources necessary to pull it off on a large scale almost guaranteed detection.
But from moment photocopiers gained widepread availability, college students have photocopied textbooks. The introduction of the cassette tape also saw the introduction of massive music sharing - likewise for the VCR. As soon as software-compatible PCs appeared, everyone swapped software among friends. When CD burners appeared on the scene, they just replaced the cassette tape, and likewise for DVD burners.
And when the internet made piracy ever so much easier, people flocked to using it for exactly that purpose. When P2P made finding and downloading copyrighted content as close to trivial as any user-initiated action can get, the P2P networks turned into nothing short of massively distributed digital radio stations with the users as the program directors.
So why do I write the above? For perspective. You say that in-your-face piracy as a form of civil disobedience won't work for swaying minds - But no one's mind needs swaying. Society has seen the idea of copyright, and rejected it outright whenever physically possible.
We don't need to win mindshare buy-in - The media producers need to come up with a model that allows them to make money while accepting that people will copy their work regardless of the law.
And if P2P scares the RIAA, wait until the next step. Some wireless-enabled portable music players already allow sharing songs actively, but it still takes too much effort to consider more than a quirk. When (not if) that turns into a passive action, compatible with devices just about everyone has (whether iPod-like players, or cell phones, or PDAs, or wrist watches, or some new killer toy we haven't even imagined yet) - When everyone you pass in rush-hour traffic, or on a busy sidewalk, or in a crowded mall, automatically sends you their entire music library almost instantly and without the need for you to even click "okay" - I think that really will mean the absolute death of anything similar to our modern content-selling industries. And what I just described will happen - Some portable music players already can do exactly that, they just need faster transfer rates, more storage space, and most importantly, either ubiquity or compatibility with other devices.
The RIAA and MPAA has until then to come up with a new trick. If they want to focus their energy on litigation, or even on a laughable anti-piracy PR campaign - They may as well close up shop today.
So when you see geeks saying "I will pirate it if I can, stick it to The Man!", don't bother getting annoyed - Whether or not such people know their "real" motives, they don't say anything new, or surprising, or even express an unpopular sentiment. Instead, look at them as a symptom of a badly broken system, broken from the start and finally approaching complete disintigration.
If they want better sales... (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, I guess the obvious question is... (Score:2, Funny)
We already have these in Thailand (Score:3, Informative)
(http://www.geocities.com/zemran | Last Journal: Friday November 07 2003, @06:07AM)
Industry insiders describe... (Score:3, Funny)
(http://ldopa.net/)
~jeff
Sales/attendance slumping... why? (Score:4, Insightful)
Thanks, guys.
The Marketing department has done it again! (Score:2)
(http://www.midnight-labs.org/)
Instead of mass-producing a product as cheaply as possible, then charging a relatively large amount for retail purchase, they give the reproduction task to the end retailer.
To the point: cheap burnable consumer DVDs are cheap for a reason, their often crap and are rarely last as long as ones used in DVD reproduction factories.
Sure it's a nice idea, it probably looked good when the marketing guys were presenting it.. But it misses the point!
The reason we have burn-your-own and print-your-own type of services is the ability to customise what you get. In my local Kodak printing shop, I can go in with my xD/SD card, select the photos I want printed and how their scaled/cropped etc. and I'll get them a few hours later on nice glossy photo paper and a CD of all the files for backup.
At home, I burn CDs/DVDs because I can customise what I have on them, perhaps I want System of a Down mixed with Led Zeppelin (hey, it's my choice).
With this.. it's just an exact copy of the disc, not cheaper, not easier to use, will probably last considerably shorter... I can't choose if I want extra scenes, or to cut out the FBI/piracy warnings, or have the star wars theme tune dubbed over it!
And remember folks, without objective criticism we'll end up with crap products and crap ideas, and this whole thing smells of
'Yes men' and end of life product whoring.
Limitations, I dont need no stinkin' limitations (Score:1)
"Burning DVDs in stores could happen in 2007," he said, but noted various licensing and technology hurdles still remained.
Technology hurdles? What technology hurdles? The technology is fine, open source (and closed source) software developers have created high speed data transfer protocols, players and burner. As a previous poster said he has a movie burning kiosk in his home, there is no hurdle here.
Main problem, they wont sell the movies for £4 a disk and the only reason you ever paid more than that is for the pretty packaging and inlays, which the kiosk idea's sort of kill
Get with the program guys, stick your entire catalogue on download and charge a few quid a film, watch your market skyrocket.
Here's what I would buy (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://theravensnest.org/ | Last Journal: Sunday October 07, @07:05AM)
- DVD-quality downloads. 1GB of H.264-encoded movie should give 'good enough' quality.
- No DRM; I often watch films on my laptop, and I occasionally watch them on a handheld device. Don't tie me to any particular platform.
- Any film or TV series that's been released on DVD.
- Up to 30 downloads a month.
Sure, some people would archive everything they've downloaded, but would the industry lose much from that? I rarely watch a film more than two or three times, and so it wouldn't make much sense; particularly when you can just re-download any film you want.Of course, these films would also end up on peer to peer networks, but at that price it just wouldn't be worth my time and effort to get them illegally.
I don't want any more DVDs. I own fifty or so movies on DVD, but I stopped buying new ones over a year ago. They are simply not worth the money; when I can rent close to thirty for the price of buying one it's only a good investment to buy if I plan on watching it more than thirty times[1].
Sadly, I don't think the movie industry is likely to adopt such a model for quite some time.
[1] The opposite is true for music. Looking through my iTunes library, the vast majority of tracks have a play count of 50-80, making music rental services a very bad financial choice for me.
Niche markets? (Score:2)
And while we're on the subject of desirables: why should those kiosks just mirror the inventory of the store (which is what the articles seem to imply)? Make it so you can "order up" obscure movies or create compilations and have them ready for burning the next day. In this case I'd see an added value that would make the idea worth implementing, but I fear that in reality those burning stations will only "stock" the latest blockbusters to catch the sales usually lost when a hot selling disk is temporarily out of stock...
The answer (Score:2)
They need to be:
1.Available (one big reason people pirate, especially for TV shows, is because they cant watch it legally). This includes making stuff that is not currently cost-effective to put onto DVD and distributing and marketing and etc available (the costs of putting all those old TV shows that you just cant get anymore onto an online download service would probobly be negligable other than the inital one-off cost to digitize the shows into a digital master format)
2.Cheap (how cheap depends on how they compare quality/features/extras/etc wise to buying the DVD). Especially what is needed is the abillity to buy single episodes of a TV show (but by the same token, buying a whole season or the whole series should be cheaper than buying each episode seperatly)
3.Non-restrictive (This doesnt necessarily mean DRM free, what it does mean is that it has to be something one can burn onto a DVD or load over a network link or something and watch in full quality on the big expensive home theater setups and NOT something limited to watching on your PC (or iPod for that matter)
4.World-wide (making it US only wont help all the people in other parts of the world downloading from BitTorrent because they cant get the content locally)
and 5.Free of crap. If its ad-supported, it better be free (or very close to it). If it costs money, it should be free of ads, anti-piracy messages, anti-fast-forward locks etc etc.
Disks are so passe (Score:1)
The movie industry needs to realize the horse and buggy distro system has been superceded by an Internet. Funny plastic disks are mostly unecessary.
First Amendment issue: (Score:4, Funny)
(http://suspectgoods.com/)
Uh but... (Score:3, Interesting)
DVD cannibalising the industry? (Score:2, Interesting)
Whenever I go to a cinema (unfortunately rarely these days), I am subjected to trailers which often show me really cool movies that I then want to go to see. So if I go to one movie, chances are I'll go to a few more in the next few weeks. I'm sure that i'm not alone here (and the advertising industry hopes i'm not too!)
But there aren't compulsory trailers on DVDs (and if there were i would get very pissed off and boycott the DVDs concerned), and so audiences aren't exposed to future movies that they might like. So they are then less likely to continue seeing as many more movies.
How can the movie industry fix this? More, better advertising on TV perhaps. More trailers on DVDs (though if you make these unskippable you WILL piss people off and they'll rent less DVDs because of the annoyance). But the best strategy, if it is possible, is to entice the public back to watching movies at the cinema, probably by lowering prices. Then they'll want to keep seeing more movies at the cinema if the movie's good enough, or otherwise on DVD.
Why will you do this? And why will stores? (Score:1)
Stores will do this because while you're waiting for the disc to burn, you'll be doing the rest of your shopping. Maybe you'd planned to run in for one item, but now you're hanging around for 20 minutes, and more likely to think of something else you'll need.
Too early for slashdot (Score:2)
(Last Journal: Tuesday February 11 2003, @02:39PM)
caused one of those cheesie web kiosks to catch on fire?
Cool.
A Brief, Feeble Defense of an Execrable Idea (Score:2, Interesting)
(Last Journal: Monday May 31 2004, @07:30AM)
The motion picture industry's line of thinking (if it can be called that) probably ran something like this:
I'll agree, the idea is an interesting one. And if circumstances were different, I could see it taking off. There are already bands which record the concert live and then sell CDs after the concert. That seems to work fairly well. So yes, there could have been a chance for this model. (I did say that this would be a brief, feeble defense, yes?)
Now, where does this idea really fall flat? Well, the problem as stated is pretty much accurate. (It's solely their problem, but technically, to them, it is a problem.) Although, parsed through the lens of objectivity their problem actually reads, "People aren't paying enough for our movies." Meaning that making money hand-over-fist isn't enough for them, they want to make more money, both hands over three fists, damnit.
The observation is also correct: if the need is great enough and the item is unique enough, there will be someone honest enough to pay nearly any price. (As a corollary, there will also be someone crooked enough to never pay for the thing if there's any chance at all of getting it cheaper or for free elsewhere.) The sales rate to product going out may approach, but will never reach, either 0% or 100%.
I see the biggest problem in the solution, because they're providing a convenient sales mechanism for people who are already using this other sales mechanism, both of which are tanking in the marketplace! If the problem is people not buying DVDs or going to see movies, tying the two of them together is silly! It's like trying to build a flying machine by tying two bricks together.
I could also launch into a diatribe on the cost/benefit analysis of piracy vs. purchasing, but this isn't the place.
ideal for rentals (Score:1)
(http://www.casualhacker.net/)
Tim
What are movies and why would kiosks sell them? (Score:1)
After surveying the couple hundred cable channels I have, and after thinking back several years to the last time I was in a movie threater, I submit that more than 90% of them are:
Huh? (Score:2)
"Burning Kiosks"? (Score:1)
Better idea (Score:3)
(Last Journal: Saturday May 22 2004, @09:17AM)
A good idea if (Score:2)
(Last Journal: Thursday May 03 2007, @11:34AM)
Here is what I was thinking. There are a fair number of movies that are not being served by the DVD market. Either they are not going to sell enough to justify the cost to press, or will not move enough in the stores to justify the space, or are older content and not even worth the cost to remaaster. However, a 3-4 terabyte server for each store, along with several burning stations, is not incredible costly, or space consuming and would hold maybe 1000 movies. Other content could be downloaded on demand. This would allow increased sales in stores, and increased profit, especially on old libraries.
For this the studios would have to play nice. Since there is little cost to produce these, or the cost of keeping stock, they need to keep the prices down to $10. Again, the burning kiosk should not be for movies that do well on DVD, but to push the back library. Second, no unskippable conent. I just bought another CD with 10 minutes of previews that I could not skip. It realy made me wonder why I did not just download the damn thing.
I am sure the major studios will screw this up just as they have the digital projector. Anything like this lossens their grip on distribution, and further weakens their market share. If done right, it will allow the studio a cost effective way to push content and compete with the majors. I am sure this will not be allowed.
I am salivating... (Score:1)
(http://en.wikipedia....vated_protein_kinase | Last Journal: Monday April 30 2007, @06:22AM)
Yeah, right...
They did it to themselves. (Score:2)
Hollywood's movie distribution system is in dire need of a fix.
Actually -- it's not. Unless you have no retailer and no internet access to purchase DVD's, the distribution system works.
Movie attendance has been suffering.
If you're a single person going to a theatre spending US$8.50 for entry, $4.00 for a medium drink, $5.00 for a box of candy or nachos, one person might be able to handle it. Now, imagine being a family of four and doing all that?
In all though, I perceive no apparent problem with attendance. I saw MI:3 in Raleigh, NC yesterday and the theatre was full. I watched both DaVinci Code and X-Men:3 last weekend in St. Louis, MO and the seats were full there as well.
DVD sales are slumping.
I like movies. No, I LOVE movies. I've got nearly 400 DVD's in my collection that I'm slowly starting to sell because of HD-DVD disks already being sold here in North Carolina for the price of about US$30.00.
I've bought, sold, replaced, sold, and replaced so many titles in my collection that I'd begun to give up.
It's the studio's problem that they rush discs to market just a couple months after a films release and then a year later offer the "extended, uncut super-freakout end-all be all version". Then a year after that they release the same disk but some action figure, or bonus disc or Oscar edition.
THEY dilluted the market. They had people like me willing to invest hard-earned cash into building a "respectable" movie collection (amongst officianados) and pissed it away.
If they really want to change things, release the "movie-only" version through the cable companies. Offer a set-top box that has a smart card linked to an account that registers customer purchases and allows people to OWN ACCESS TO THE CONTENT WITHOUT HAVING TO PURCHASE A PHYSICAL ITEM.
A person should then be able to LEND his smart card to a friend or take it with him to another customer's house and watch the same LICENSED film if he chooses.
Two people cannot watch the same purchase simultaneously in two different locations, and the studios will be able to obtain metrics on who's watching what and WHERE.
But for the real FANS OF FILM offer the super-freakout edition in the stores or for online purchase. Stop fucking it up for us. You're double-dipping. You're cheating us.
For those of us who BUY physical products give us a central registry so that we can be afforded REPLACEMENT of our discs when things go awry. We send in the old-dead disc, you send us back a shiny new one.
I think that for $30.00 per title you can do this with little effort.
What? (Score:2)
(http://www.fantasticdamage.com/)
I thought movie attendance had actually picked up this year over last. Maybe not a huge increase, but it's not "suffering" --- and DVD sales are not slumping. Their rate of increase has been slowing down, but that's a measure of acceleration, not speed or distance.
This'll hopefully help digital downloads (Score:2)
(Last Journal: Friday July 09 2004, @03:58AM)
Does this kiosk development mean that the new version of CSS is ready? If so DVD burning could be available for online digital download services as well. As I see it they're held back by the simple fact that connecting a computer to a TV is not as easy as putting a DVD into the player.
Two words.... (Score:2)
(http://slashdot.org/)
Not that it'll be used for that, but the potential is there.
copy protection? (Score:1)
I suspect they'll do something similar to what Movielinks is doing - give you a DRM'ed file. That's fine, but if I can play it on any computer/DVD player, I still can copy it! And if I have to link it to a specific computer with a license, why would I want it in the first place?!
Sigh. I just don't understand the point of this.
m
Wow! I Need to Stay Home More Often (Score:1)
(http://www.kickthebobo.com/erotech/index.html | Last Journal: Friday October 26, @11:51AM)
(NOTE: The above is humorous. If you don't get it, then you have my sympathies for your loss.)
lest ye forget (Score:1)
(http://www.gamerslastwill.com/)
dowloading is not a crime.
uploading is a crime.
arrest the uploaders.
Rejoice (Score:2)
Think about it. They are giving in, even if it's only a little. Inch by inch, they will eventually be forced to realize that switching to a non-centralized online distribution format will make them more money.
No, not as much money as they once made per film, but more money TODAY, than they would otherwise lose to online piracy (which often is caused by users not having the choice to buy online cheaply). Need proof? Just look at what iTunes did for the music industry.
I used to buy DVD before my head injury... (Score:1)
maybe the reason is (Score:1)
More like 'a scat handful of simultaneous releases' --seriously. The crap they are releasing is the only reason that attendance is suffering.
If they want to make money off crappy movies, give them away for free. If some turkey likes "Fantastic Four" enough, he can buy a DVD at max quality. Nick Cage as Ghostrider? I want to cry. Starting to see a pattern emerge, now?
Don't even get me started about Lucas. He's trying to squeeze your last dollars with the 'new' DVD-release of the original trilogy. Most of the good stuff seems to be on TV, lately. But I still refuse to pay for 150 channels of crap when all I want is a couple. So, it would seem that neither industry can get their vision of future commerce to gain wide acceptance. Too bad they get little to none of my money as a result.
What about security? (Score:1)
If you want me to come to the theater... (Score:1)
(http://slashdot.org/~davidwr/journal/ | Last Journal: Friday November 09, @09:19PM)
For the opening day, have an real live host introduce the movie. Follow up with outtakes, a "making of," and even a discussion of key elements of the movie, such as the special effects. Heck, even get a star or behind-the-scenes person to do a live or remote- discussion of the movie.
After opening weekend, be creative. For children's movies have a live puppet show or something beforehand. For action films give out discount coupons to the local amusement park. For dramas give coupons to the local high-end-bookstore chain or have an author-signing of some book related to the movie. You get the idea.
And for ghod's sakes cut the cost of concessions or at least let me bring my popcorn.
Otherwise, I'll just rent/buy/bootleg the DVD and watch it on my home theater* thank-you-very-much.
*home theater consists of a 20-year-old mono-sound analog tv set with distorted color with single aluminum-foil-encased antenna
The Movies Have been sucking for a long time (Score:1)
Maybe they should sell DVD's in the theaters... (Score:1)
They know that movie theater goers watch movies, buy DVDs and rent movies.
The time between theatrical release and DVD release is dropping (it is now under 4 months in many cases,) and the natural market is the theater goers.
A properly made theatrical release is like the Greatful Dead, and experiance which is not duplicated on DVD.
So why not offer theater tickets which optionally come with a DVD release? If the movie is properly made for the theater, people will still come for the experiance, and each DVD sent out acts as an ad for the release while it is still in the theater.
Or does that make too much sense?
This is great news! (Score:2)
(http://www.ancar.org/)
Soon to be followed by... (Score:1)
dvd burning kiosks a waste (Score:1)
DVD sales are slumping (Score:2)
DVD sales are slumping
Besides the crapfest that has been the movie industry lately, wouldn't this also be caused by people holding off on purchases since they know another format is just around the corner?
Re:attribute your sources! (Score:1)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
The people who amass music are long time music enthusiasts. You don't sound like one. I have absolutely tons of CDs and I reguarly 'dust off' old CDs. And CD expiry, to an extent is a myth which has never really been tested fully. My dad has CDs from when CDs were first released (early 1980) which still work as well as new, and I have some CDrs from 10 years ago which still work as new.
Re:Why? (Score:2)
(Last Journal: Tuesday October 30, @10:59AM)
However, the problem with your scheme for movies is that the mechanism for "play once" would be "play once the way I want to". I want to be able to download a movie, keep it around for a few days, play it with whatever program I want, then delete it. As you said, most people don't want to have massive collections of movies, and thus I doubt they'd be losing much by simply selling a download-once movie for $2.50. If you have to delete it, oh well, you'll have to pay them again to download it, which is fair, you're wasting bandwidth. But if you want to keep it, they should give up the idea of forcing you to then pay $25 for the DVD, and they should furthermore give up the idea of trying to prevent piracy at all. Piracy costs them nothing in a scheme like that, and sharing with friends is fine, although really, two friends would probably each buy it.
I know I bought a nice little game called Tube Twist, and my roommate bought it also. Why? Because trying to crack it was too hard compared to the relatively cheap cost, and that we actually wanted to support them, and the fact that it really was less bother to buy it than to crack it. We ended up pirating games like Path of Neo and Beyond Good & Evil, because we couldn't easily find a way to buy them over the Internet, and we'd have ended up cracking them anyway, so that we could file away the CDs.