Real Life Cash Card Launched To Access Your Virtual Money

Izeickl writes "The BBC is reporting that "A real world cash card that allows gamers to spend money earned in a virtual universe has been launched. Gamers can use the card at cash machines around the world to convert virtual dollars into real currency. The card is offered by the developers of Project Entropia, an online role-playing game that has a real world cash economy.""

Form 1040 VR

From TFA (emphasis mine):

Last year $165m passed through the game and the founders of the online Universe expect that to at least double in 2006.
The new cash card blurs the boundary between the virtual and physical world even further.
It allows people to access their virtually acquired PEDs and convert them into real world money at any cash machine in the world.
"We are creating the next level of the online experience," said Mr Welter.

Well, prepare yourself for the next level after that...taxation of virtual currency [slashdot.org].

Here's an excerpt of the first comment [slashdot.org] on the above referenced story (again, emphasis mine):

In the U.S., the Internal Revenue Service will eventually take notice of the phenomena when someone who makes lots of real-world money by selling virtual goods gets audited by an ambitous Revenue Agent. Until then, unless you're actually converting virtual goods into real greenbacks, there's not much to say on the subject.

That sure was quick.

Of course, if this comes to pass, it should also work both ways...e.g. I can write off my Second Life costs as 'business expenses'. IANACPA, but I'm sure other, more fiscally talented individuals could take this idea and run with it.

Re:Form 1040 VR

I'd expect the real reason notice is being paid is the potential for money laundering. Anyone around the world can "produce" "goods" for sale. A U.S. based person pays a price for the "item". Real money flows overseas.When dealing wth other types of business, it is easy to set a range of expected revenue. What is the "fair market value" for a +15 sword of the undead? Hard to know if something is a legitimate transacation, or a money laundering scheme.

Expect more scrutiny from homeland security. Expect this to be a recurring theme for the rest of your life.

Re:Form 1040 VR

I'd expect the real reason notice is being paid is the potential for money laundering.

What would be cool, is a virtual underworld that can create real money. Then, I can use my flight simulator and become a virtual smuggler! Of course, I'd have to get the

Re:Form 1040 VR

What would be cool, is a virtual underworld that can create real money. Then, I can use my flight simulator and become a virtual smuggler! Of course, I'd have to get the "Drug runner/Smuggler" add-on package for Flight Simulator.

That's awesome! Then I can

Re:Form 1040 VR

I'd have to get the "Drug runner/Smuggler" add-on package for Flight Simulator.

There was an older virtual airline that did just that. I forgot the name. It's based out of Australia. The flights you download have a "co-pilot" that makes you stay low to the

Re:Form 1040 VR

>What is the "fair market value" for a +15 sword of the undead?

Why, 500 mana crystals, of course! This isn't a new problem, actually -- what's the fair market value of a "The Ybarra 'Don Quixote', 1780 (four volumes)", for example? Son: They're no use to Father, not anymore. His games were his own little world. Now it's just a painful memory. Daughter-in-law: Unbearably painful. Corso picks up a notebook, adjusts his glasses with an instinctive, habitual movement, taps the notebook with his pencil. Corso: Well, at a rough, preliminary estimate, you have a collection here worth around two hundred thousand dollars... See, these little +5 daggers -- they are not particularly valuable, but this +15 sword of the undead I can take off your hands for... 4 thousand dollars

Re:Form 1040 VR

What is the "fair market value" for a +15 sword of the undead?

That depends on how many vampires you have lurking in your neighborhood. As far as I know I don't have any, but it would probably look really cool over the mantle.

Answers...

I think this answers this question [slashdot.org] [slashdot.org]. When virtual money is real money, it becomes taxable...

Wow...

This is...just...horrible... The fact people would waste real money to go to a "virtual club" to waste time in a game that could be spent doing stuff like hunting animals for real money (another enjoyable experience of the game) is just...sad...

Planned obsolence comes to MMORPGs

The founding company, MindArk, makes money because all of the tools used by characters in the game have a finite life and need to be repaired.

At last, software that really wears out.

One word:

Bubble.

Re:One word:

Amen.

I don't understand economics - at all - but something about this makes me very nervous. Especially when there are six-figure sums involved.

Re:One word:

Well, there are three things required to make it work. First, tie it to a real currency. Check. Second, don't allow things to be bought by NPCs (basically by the game owner) at anything near market value - think bankruptcy rates. I don't know about tha

The future is NOW.

I find it amusing that sometimes last year I argued that virtual assets were still assets and the guy who refused to accept that virtual assets were anything at all said "as soon as I can buy my groceries with virtual assets, I will believe you."

Time to start that grocery trip, it appears.

I am curious...

How would MindArk go about doing this? Would they need to ride the Visa or Mastercard network? I have seen co-branded Visa or Mastercard cards, but not something like this.

Now we are all in trouble!

So let me get this right, real money and game money are interchangeable.

So you knock up your virtual girl friend, she gets pregnant and has a kid, costing you $25,000 real dollars for a virtual hospital, virtual delivery room, and virtual doctors. Then they slowly drain your bank with virtual housing, virtual food, virtual birth days, virtual college, etc. Pretty soon you are broke, mowing your virtual lawn, around your virtual house and listening to the virtual wife bi*ch at you about what a looser you are. All the time sitting in your real apartment with no money because it virtually vanished right before your eyes.

Re:Now we are all in trouble!

I see virtual alimony coming in your scenario.

Time to go walk around in the dark until i'm eaten by a grue.

What's the point in a virtual world...

From TFA:

"We're bridging the gap between virtual reality and reality right now," said Jan Welter, founder of Project Entropia.

What's the point in creating a virtual world and the trying to make it into reality? I thought the whole point of a virtual world was escapism. Online game Second Life already has developed a notary for verifying contracts, and that means that it won't be too long before virtual lawyers rear their ugly heads. Why bother escaping to world that has all the bad parts of reality?

What's next, getting virtual parking tickets or stepping in virtual dog poo? People are sucking the fun out of virtual environments (and I don't mean that in the virtual whore kind of way).

Re:What's the point in a virtual world...

No, I think this is for people who /do/ want lives... just not their own. It's pretty sad really, yeah it's tough to build a life in the real world, but it pays off so many more times than a fake life can do.

It seems, more than anything, a place to stash c

Re:What's the point in a virtual world...

What's the point in creating a virtual world and the trying to make it into reality? I thought the whole point of a virtual world was escapism. Online game Second Life already has developed a notary for verifying contracts, and that means that it won't be

Simple

Your looks != your avatar's looks
Also, your sex... you get the idea.

Mmm, well lets run with this question

Why do we try to add real life to games.

You say it is a pest. Well I am sure that real world snipers find it a pest that they got to account for wind, distance, differences in elevation etc etc. Yet do we prefer a game that attempts to simulate these OR d

Allow Me To Clarify

The point of tying virtual economies to real ones is that the truth will out. And the truth is that 99% of what people do in the real world and get paid for is a pointless waste of time. There are certainly people out there that are really do things, but for every such person there are 10 freeloaders pulling down an enormous salary to fuck around.

Now we just see some honesty. Playing WoW 24/7 is a pointless waste of time, and the more people you have that agree on a particular waste of time as meaningful, the more currency. Currency = current interest of society. Why not have real compensation for people frittering away hours on an entertaining diversion? I've seen the same thing every day for years in the workplace.

If you are a working chap like myself, head down to a mall some day during business hours and just sit and watch for a couple hours and marvel at the efficiency with which we line consumerbot pockets. Some fellow is sitting at his 9-5 job watching the clock tic-toc while 1 to 5 other people are out mindlessly pouring the earnings back into the feedback loop.

And around and around it goes.

Having been the 9-5 tic-toc guy (post-college), one of his consumerbots (pre and during college), and a mindless gamer (all along), I can say, they're all the same hat. Without legislation, an unregulated virtual economy will ultimately find balance with the real economies because it is always a balance of time for money. If you have a working bloke that would invest 36 hours to get Cruel Hammer of +Infinity^2 Ass Kicking--and he can do that because the real economy lined his pocket with enough money that he can piss away 36 leisure hours on a collection of bits off in the ether--and there's no obstacle to him instead spending 2 hours of his salary to get it, well he's not an idiot and he's probably and addict so it's just simple numbers. Lower cost and faster gratification = that hammer is worth real money because I'd spend real time to get it.

We spend money on things we want. If they are scarce (because of supply or because of the high cost in time to obtain) we pay more. The more addicted people are to virtual worlds, the closer in parity virtual goods will come to real goods. If you spend more than 50% of your time in a virtual world, it is your real world or it would be, if only you could pay your bills there.

Well someday you probably can. Some people do now.

Honestly, I think virtual worlds will set us free and give us the strongest dose of reality check we've ever experienced. After a while you notice that you are valuing utterly imaginary things above actual real things and then you start thinking, "Well, Jesus. What is the value of real things? Maybe the 'real' things in my life aren't even real. Maybe the real things I bought are just as hollow as so many bits on the ether. Maybe that's a problem that I should address."

Or maybe it won't turn out that way for most. My perspective: there's as much virtual crap at the local shopping mall as there is in the Flavor of the Year online game. It's all the same hat.

This is what the future will be like:

1000 years from now. A customer inquires of a merchant:

Customer: Do you take visa?

Merchant: Visa hasn't existed for 900 years.

Customer: Do you take American Express?

Merchant: American Express hasn't existed for 750 years.

Customer: Do you take Entropia?

Merchant: We don't take Entropia.

Is this legal in the US ?

I know very little about this subject. However, I was under the impression that only the US Federal Reserve had the authority and responsibility to coin (or print) money. How is it they can do this?

Re:Is this legal in the US ?

Nope. The US Federal Reserve has the monopoly on issuing US DOLLARS. Not the monopoly on money.

Money is actually just a commodity. Bought and sold like everything else. That's why there are exchange rates. Exchange rates tell you how much the Euro/Yen/what

Re:Is this legal in the US ?

However, I was under the impression that only the US Federal Reserve had the authority and responsibility to coin (or print) money. How is it they can do this?

To issue money which will be legal tender in the US - i.e. which a creditor legally has to accept in payment of debts - you need to be the US Federal Reserve. But the Bank of England, the Bank of Japan and the European Central Bank all issue currencies which are not dollars, are not legal tender within the USA, but which will surely be recognised by Americans as having value.

In general, to issue money, you don't need to be a government. You just need to be a bank. If I want to start my own currency, I might gather together a huge pile of gold, and issue vouchers good for exchange for One Gram of Gold at the Bank of Meringuoid. If my promise is good, then those vouchers are as good as gold, and are effectively money.

If I'm running an online game, I am issuing in-game currency for use by the fighters and rogues and mages who populate my world. What value has this currency? It can be exchanged for powerful weapons and tough armour and spells of mighty devastation, which are greatly prized by players of my game. Useless in the real world, but no more irrational than traditional money - I mean, what bloody use is a great big heap of heavy yellow metal?

Once virtual money, backed by the notional value created by the players of the game in which it exists, becomes freely convertible at market rates into real money, backed by the notional value created by the people of the country in which it exists... then why NOT issue a charge-card? It's no different in concept from buying goods in Ireland on my British bank card. The currency conversion is handled by the bank, which debits my account of pounds, pays the vendor in euros, and takes a commission for the service. Why shouldn't they take it from my account on World of Warcraft instead?

Re:Is this legal in the US ?

Don't ask me, there are still people buying USDs for their Euros. :)

Re:Is this legal in the US ?

my real question is who the hell is willing to pay real money for fake money, they are the ones driving the market and the price ratio

It's not "fake" money. It's just money that is only used in exchange for goods/services in a specific location (or online,

makes you wonder

where did he get $100,000?

can you imagine the look on the loan officers face when you tell her you want to borrow 100 grad to buy a virtual space station in a computer game to turn it into a night club?

Already been done ...

We already have fantasy worlds where one plays games for funny money and cashes it in for real money-- it's called a casino! And most of the women are actually female! And attractive!

Re:Already been done ...

Actually, other than Vegas or Atlantic City, most casinos have older people, rather than younger.

Take any smaller casino in and around your state and go visit - you'd be surprised at the number of older people you'd find.

Here's a bet nobody will hold

I bet it doesn't take a day before the first virtual hooker offers his (yes, HIS. NO matter what sex the avatar has) service.

New slogan

Entropia: Licensed software that's a license to print money.

PR Stunt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Entropia [wikipedia.org]

"On 24 October 2005, an 'Asteroid Space Resort' was bought by "Jon NEVERDIE Jacobs" for a sum of 1,000,000 PED (100,000 US Dollars), greatly surpassing Treasure Island. According to a Digital hollywood Bio, Jon Jacobs is the U.S. Spokesperson for Project Entropia, where his functions include US strategic relations as well as, business development, marketing and content acquisition. He is also the writer and producer of a song played within the Project Entropia Universe called "Gamer Chick". The Asteroid was named Club NEVERDIE after Jacobs's own in game Avatar and has made headlines around the world for the high price of the purchase and his own ambitious plans to turn the resort into a venue for "Live Entertainment in Virtual Reality"."

Uhhhh

A real world cash card that allows gamers to spend money earned in a virtual universe has been launched. Gamers can use the card at cash machines around the world to convert virtual dollars into real currency.

Er, forgive my leap to conclusions here, but isn't this basically gambling?

"Yeah, I converted my cash into this 'virtual money' they call 'chips'. It's fabulous, this place called a 'casino' has its own virtual economy! I can go to different parts and perform 'business transactions' that can make me virtual money (or lose virtual money, of course). Then, I can convert my virtual money back into real money! It's amazing!"

Re:Uhhhh

Sort of... but the stock market is sort of gambling too then.

The difference is that in mmorgs, if you put in enough time, you will produce a certain amount of "product" that you can sell. The value of that product is related to the amount of time you spen

...and we thought the dot com bubble burst was bad

WOW! People are in debt enough without having to worry about virtual debt.

Just think about it, the dot com bubble burst because of companies with over valued stock failed to ever produce a real profit. A lot of people lost jobs and a lot of money - but

Goldmine for GoldFarmers

well. At least it removes the Middleman for the Gold farmers.

That is, if you can even farm in this game...

Virtual goods feel like stock/property

They change in value over time.

So if you have the "uber rare sword +5" which is worth $20,000, then could the government charge you property tax? Then can you take a loss if the game closes (and as a result the item becomes worthless)?

Part of the reason these items can take these values is because taxes are not included in the transactions. Add back in taxes and the prices will drop.

Touchy laws.

On the one hand, all major currency is virtual nowadays unless you are bartering with gold or jewels or something. The paper and base metals in your pockets are not worth what's printed on them, in and of themselves.

On the other hand, at least in the US,

For Project entropia Item duplication

For Project entropia Item duplication :
Project-entropia is a very glitchy game, there are many ways to Glitch in this game, simply editing the registry.
1. go to start, run and type in regedit
2. press ctrl+f and find somthing called pema.reg
3. Open and log on into Project-Entropia.
4. get any item and go to a trade terminal and put it in like you are going to sell it.
5.Minimize project-entropia and and edit pema.reg and change the Vaule code to 82.617.
6. close Project entropia and log on again. there should be two copys of the item in your Inventory. Good luck and have a good time getting rich :)

Re:For Project entropia Item duplication

Note: parent is a troll, and attempting to do the above will not possibly work. Furthermore, if MA learned what you were up to, they'd probably ban your account. Mod parent down.

Re:That makes me uneasy

Pretty simply, you spend your money on silly useless things all the time! Games for example? How the hell could you spend your money on video games?

Anyways the point of the economy is to produce goods and to consume them. The point of becoming wealthy is to dabble in useless things. The point of becoming a rich country is so that everyone can then dabble in those useless things. It's all useless!

But things are being produced and consumed in this online world so the economy gets stronger and more people have more useless things!

Just like this useless post!

Re:That makes me uneasy

How can people spend money like that?

How can people spend money on multiple pcs? Or getting the newest video card every 6 months. Or buying the latest fashion item, wearing it 3 times then repeating the process. How about buying 20 different jewel-e

Re:That makes me uneasy

This is my trick to making it seem like I have a lot of money. Let everyone else think they need 60 Inch TVs, $2000 computers, and $50,000 cars, and I'll just sit back and realize that I can live without such luxuries. Of course, I'm actually making the

Re:That makes me uneasy

But you have no 60inch TV, no $2000 computer, no 200mph car...

And then you die, gone, finished, never to come back.

Re:That makes me uneasy

Hostile eh?

And yes thats nice that you can retire at 45 with no 200mph car, no $2000 computer, and especially no 60 inch TV. ;-) Nah just pulling your leg

Seriously though, do whatever the hell you want that makes you happy, no one's forcing you to buy any

Re:That makes me uneasy

Bingo. I feel the same way. I don't need all those things. I just need enough to make me comfortable. I go for the 'Quality over Quantity' motto.

I went mortgage shopping two weeks ago and in talking to one of the loan officers I met with I told her how

Re:does this mean?

In theory, most likely.

In practice, I'd guess that the market is too small to sustain more than a selected few, like in every MMORPG. Unless you're able to provide a service that nobody else can or wants to provide.

There are actually people who can survive