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Bitcoin

El Salvador's Bitcoin Bet Is Working, Finance Minister Says (bloomberg.com) 71

El Salvador's finance minister defended the country's strategy to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender even as critics urge the nation to ditch the experiment as the cryptocurrency world suffers through a bear market. From a report: Almost a year into the country's bet on Bitcoin, Alejandro Zelaya said the digital currency has brought financial services to a largely unbanked population and attracted tourism and investments. While its use as a means of exchange is low, he said he remains a believer in digital money and added the government is still planning to issue a Bitcoin-backed bond using blockchain technology. "For some, it's something new and something they don't entirely understand, but it's a phenomenon that exists and is gaining ground and will continue to be around in the coming years," Zelaya said in an interview on Wednesday.

The government has purchased 2,381 Bitcoin with public funds, which, today, are worth about 50% less than what authorities paid for them, according to calculations by Bloomberg based on tweets by President Nayib Bukele. A survey by the U.S. National Bureau of Economic Research found that most businesses and consumers in El Salvador still prefer to use hard currency to pay for goods and services and send remittances. The International Monetary Fund has urged the nation to strip Bitcoin of its legal standing. The government is negotiating a $1.3 billion extended fund facility with the IMF, but no deal has yet been reached.

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El Salvador's Bitcoin Bet Is Working, Finance Minister Says

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  • He has to say that (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jacks smirking reven ( 909048 ) on Thursday July 28, 2022 @10:47AM (#62741430)

    It's in his financial and career interest to say that.

    Next article below this: "Terra $45 Billion Face Plant Creates Crowd of Crypto Losers"

    • "It's in his financial and career interest to say that.

      Next article below this: "Terra $45 Billion Face Plant Creates Crowd of Crypto Losers"

      Naw it will be another trillion Dollar coin.

    • It probably is working fine for him. Maybe not so much for the country.

      • I doubt it's working fine even for him. With the collapse of crypto, I can't really see any way it works for anyone. The folks that were going to profit from it already profited, and left the bottom tiers of the Ponzi scheme to drown in worthless tokens. But when finance ministers admit they just mortgaged the country on a financial scam, and they tell the truth, they're usually lucky to get out of the country alive.

  • by AmazingRuss ( 555076 ) on Thursday July 28, 2022 @10:54AM (#62741450)
    ...says fox.
  • Lovely (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Rinikusu ( 28164 ) on Thursday July 28, 2022 @11:07AM (#62741494)

    Sounds ripe for an exit scam.

  • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Thursday July 28, 2022 @11:15AM (#62741534)
    I'm sure their gov't has been able to use crypto currency to launder millions if not billions out of the country for their eventual escape overseas when the public at large comes for their heads. In that sense it's working great.

    The local economy is screwed though. Big time.
  • What else is new. Standard behavior for a politician as well.

  • "The Salvadoran Chamber of Commerce found that only 14% of businesses in El Salvador had conducted bitcoin transactions between September 2021 and July 2022..." https://www.nytimes.com/2022/0... [nytimes.com]

    I have a question. Is it really Bitcoin they're trading, with cold wallets and waiting an hour for a transaction to be confirmed, or is it shares in the government's wallet? The latter isn't really token money, it's just inefficient/expensive banking.

    • There are two ways to send money. If the recipient is online, you can enter their IP address and it will connect, get a new public key and send the transaction with comments. If the recipient is not online, it is possible to send to their Bitcoin address, which is a hash of their public key that they give you. They'll receive the transaction the next time they connect and get the block it's in. This method has the disadvantage that no comment information is sent, and a bit of privacy may be lost if the

    • Yes, they are really using BTC, like a currency. They are using the lightning network, so transactions are instant and practically free

    • by guruevi ( 827432 )

      Bitcoin can be done instantly. Whenever I sent the transfer, it went through instantly and then it was pending confirmation for a while. To the end user it operates just like VISA/Mastercard or cheques.

      I'm sure you can commit fraud that way, but that is no different than paying with any non-cash asset.

      • I'm sure you can commit fraud that way, but that is no different than paying with any non-cash asset.

        This is where the 50% attack comes in. The 50% attack allows someone to roll back transactions (it doesn't allow the attacker to make arbitrary transactions). So you buy a painting for 1 million bitcoins, take control of the painting, roll back the transaction, and disappear. Then you have control of the painting and also the bitcoins.

        This is why experts recommend you want for 6 blocks to be added on top of your transaction block (a new block is added every ten minutes), to make the probability of rollback

  • This "we do it so that more people can use electronic payment" is BS.
    There are many, many easier and safer ways to get people to have small bank accounts, and many developing countries have implementes basic money-transfer systems with which you can even send money to someone else by just sending an SMS.
    Also, bear in mind that Bukele has done a lot of quasi-dictatorial things. Soldiers in the parlament, replacing judges with sycophants, and so on.
    The Salvadoran system was and is probably quite rotten, so
    • Corruption and greed are things we can rely upon. Some persons believe humanity is in essence good, while others face a more stark reality in observing their fellow human beings and themselves.

      I believe if it weren't for greed, BitCoin would remain unknown and the source-code and documentation might simply fade away forever.

      The wise take advantage of the sins of the common man in order to further just causes ... or so one might hope.

      Morality may be relative [wikipedia.org], but where a great harm occurs trivially recogniz

  • I really won't believe what is coming out of that guy's mouth until I see results that the people of ES are benefiting from.

  • Whose hare brained idea was this??
  • is to believe in money backed by government that redefines what a recession is (along with other mental gymnastics) to convince you things are going smoothly
  • Their inflation has been trending negative the whole time and just now is going to 3%. US inflation is over 9% and expected to rise another 8% on top by end of year.

    So translated, whatever product cost 1 bitcoin a year ago, now costs 1.03 bitcoin in El Salvador, whatever cost 50,000 dollar a year ago, is going to cost more than 55,000 soon.

    • For the US, $40000 this time last year would buy you 10101 pounds of chocolate chip cookies and now buys 8753 pounds. (price data [in2013dollars.com])

      1 bitcoin would also buy you 10101 pounds of chocolate chip cookies this time last year, but now buys 5208 pounds.

      It's hard to see why the El Salvador consumers are seeing 3% rather than something close to 100% bitcoin inflation (10101 -> 5208).

      • by guruevi ( 827432 )

        You're assuming the cookie costs the same in the US as it does in El Salvador. If everyone is trading in Bitcoin, and bread costs 1 microcoin today and 1.03 microcoins tomorrow the fluctuations against the USD and what consumers in America spend doesn't matter much. Only matters for people traveling or exchanging business.

    • Their inflation has been trending negative the whole time and just now is going to 3%. US inflation is over 9% and expected to rise another 8% on top by end of year.

      So translated, whatever product cost 1 bitcoin a year ago, now costs 1.03 bitcoin in El Salvador, whatever cost 50,000 dollar a year ago, is going to cost more than 55,000 soon.

      What measure of inflation are you looking at? (As I have the links handy from a previous post I'm looking at 7.76% for El Salvador https://tradingeconomics.com/e... [tradingeconomics.com] and 9.1% US https://tradingeconomics.com/u... [tradingeconomics.com] ).

  • If you look at the various points at which El Salvador have acquired BTC, it absolutely looks like a cryptocurrency n00b, despite the huge figures involved.

    I guess Nayib Bukele is sitting there, in his pants, late at night, after a few drinks, playing "Mr. Big Guy" with his countries assets.

    It is madness and greed rolled into a fool sandwich.

    • It is madness and greed rolled into a fool sandwich.

      Awful, is it not? The very thought that "bitcoin" might be used as a currency rather than a get-rich-quick scheme investment! Madness, truly!

  • I'll never understand the collective hate boner a group of supposedly tech-positive people have for blockchain technology as a whole.

    • It's easy to understand in the sense of people discussing a topic which they have little to no knowledge of.

      There are three or more groups involved. I'm one of the original programmers who were interested in the subject back pre-2007. I was never particularly interested in the cryptographic implementation side of things, albeit I understood and do understand the general workings. I just do not find hash functions or elliptic-curves fascinating per se.

      The other groups include "miners" (actually: minters, but

    • Because we are savvy enough to grok what blockchain technology is useful for, which is in fact very little. One of it's biggest problems is that it doesn't scale.
      Seriously, name some good uses of blockchain technology that aren't better served by other technologies.

      • What is, "blockchain technology" ?
        • Applications that use blockchain...you know, anything that actually puts the concept of decentralizing a complete ledger of all transactions across a computer network to work and does something useful with it.

      • Seriously, name some good uses of blockchain technology that aren't better served by other technologies.

        Name some good uses of bubblesort that aren't better suited served by other algorithms? Sure, bubblesort tends to be the shortest implementation where you do sorted-insertion into an array. On an embedded system where performance is not an issue for short arrays such as 16 - 128 entries, the performance and size of bubblesort is far better than other choices.

        • I'm not sure what your point is. Yes, bubblesort has (admittedly rare) instances when it can be the best choice, like on small lists that are mostly pre-sorted, or if you are getting small amounts of data at a time off of slow old media or something. It is also useful as a teaching tool.
          What does that have to do with blockchains?

          • If you are trying to point out that things that "don't scale well" can still be great for something small, sure. But what is a SMALL usage of blockchains that is useful?
            There must be some things it is good for.
            The comparison to bubblesort makes sense in one way: we know it's a bad idea to try and wedge bubblesort into everything.
            That's how lots of us feel about blockchain.

    • If I came on strong about how the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics was definitely the one true and correct interpretation, and people who disagreed are being dumb, I would get strong push back from most any "science-positive" community, too.

      Crypto enthusiasts on slashdot have made many overreaching claims that cannot be sustained by logic, and then insulted people who politely disagree. Many such enthusiasts have relied on very ideological-driven arguments, including aggressive and sloppy fl

      • Fiat currencies vs. "something else". I agree, but I feel you need to distinguish between "enthusiasts" and "others" like myself. It's easy to do so and I'll give an example of how: I have never converted between two currencies or purchased an investment seeking to reap undue gain.

        Such is a very complex topic of course, but albeit the value of provisioning liquidity in a market is valid and may very well be enough to support an individual as an elder ... I believe the independent anti-social notions in far-

  • Of El Salvador, don't know any better, if this is indeed thier 'first banking experience' if what a real bank is and that it shouldn't lose much of it's value like as crypto account does.

  • And in Turkiye, Recep Tayyip Erdogan declares his policy of using low interest rates to combat inflation a resounding success.

    Surely, he is a shoe-in for the Nobel in Economics this year!

The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth. -- Niels Bohr

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