Microsoft Apps Will Be Pre-loaded On Lenovo and Motorola Android Devices (betanews.com) 76
An anonymous reader writes: There was a time when Microsoft was seen as the enemy of Linux and Apple communities. Understandably, at the time, the company only wanted Windows to succeed. Nowadays, however, the operating system is sort of inconsequential. Microsoft seems happy to have its software succeed on 'competitor' platforms such as iOS, Android, macOS, Ubuntu and more. Today, Microsoft announces that it has partnered with Lenovo on a new mobile initiative. The Windows-maker's productivity apps will be pre-loaded on Lenovo and Motorola-branded devices running Google's Linux-based Android operating system.As of earlier this year, Microsoft had over 74 Android OEM partners. As for submitter's take on this, it's pretty simple. Microsoft is going where users are. If they are not going to purchase Windows Phones, Microsoft will go to Android and iOS.
White-washed submission (Score:5, Informative)
Lenovo/Motorola aren't going along with this because they legitimately think customers want Microsoft bloatware. They're doing this to avoid the ~$10 patent tax that Microsoft extracts from Android OEMs so that SD cards will work out-of-the-box (their patent on the exFAT file system, to be precise).
Re:White-washed submission (Score:4, Insightful)
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So? As long as they are uninstallable taking a $10 line item out of the cost of the devices works better for the consumers.
really? useless leeches, sucking away at corporate value, are a good thing? lenovo makes better products when they make them worse? how does that work?
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So? As long as they are uninstallable taking a $10 line item out of the cost of the devices works better for the consumers.
You're missing the problem. I don't care that Lenovo is mitigating the problem with bloatware; I've already decided to boycott them over Superfish and the lack of security updates for their phones.
The problem is that Microsoft is adding ~$10 to the cost of every Android device with their patent trolling.
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I don't think you can call it patent trolling when Android is a direct competitor to a line of business they've continuously had for a couple of decades.
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I don't think you can call it patent trolling when Android is a direct competitor to a line of business they've continuously had for a couple of decades.
Oh, I see then. So if I own an ice cream shop, and you open an ice cream shop too, I can use some frivolous patent to force you to give me pennies for every scoop you sell, since you're my competitor, right?
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The point being a 'patent troll' is defined as some entity holding patents, but not actually *making* anything. Bad for both being a leech, but also challenging as the potential to fight back to pursue cross-licensing is impossible since the attack doesn't do anything.
Now if you think the patents are stupid and not worthy of being patent, that's something else and I'm particularly inclined to agree about the VFAT patent. But 'patent troll' is a specific phenomenon, and Microsoft is not (yet) in that role.
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The problem is the $10 price tag. Even if this patent is valid, it's only value is compatibility with Windows desktops - i.e., the Windows desktop monopoly has made FAT-based filesystems a de-facto standard. Microsoft is charging an exhorbitant fee for the ability to use SD cards way out of proportion to the value of the software in question. Put another way, if any OEM's were still willing to make Windows phones, Microsoft would charge them $10 or less for a whole OS, including FAT filesystem compatibil
Mac and Linux users use FAT too (Score:2)
... it's only value is compatibility with Windows desktops ...
Actually FAT is commonly used on USB sticks and SD cards by Mac and Linux users as well. FAT is the "I'd like to read/write this anywhere" option.
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Microsoft is charging an exhorbitant fee for the ability to use SD cards way out of proportion to the value of the software in question.
If it isn't worth the cost, why are OEMs paying? Oh, because they believe it is worth the cost.
Value != Cost
If you are willing to pay $100 for something and you can get it for $10, then good for you. But if the price is $100, you would pay that. It's value (to you) is $100, whether or not it costs that much.
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True enough when there are other choices available. If Windows were able to read ext2 as well as FAT without having to load special 3rd party drivers, then you might be able to determine what the 'value' of FAT on an SD card is. And, of course, there's the issue of how insane the FAT patent is, and that the code to implement FAT in Android is not Microsoft's at all...
But, no. I wouldn't pay $100 for the ability to read an SD card. I'd load a driver and use ext2. So the value of FAT to me is quite limit
What business ?! (Score:2)
I don't think you can call it patent trolling when Android is a direct competitor to a line of business they've continuously had for a couple of decades
Microsoft didn't as much had "competitors" and they didn't "had a business line for a couple of decades", as much as they've "continuously struggled, trying unsuccessfully to get a foot in a market that they don't even properly understand".
Nowadays, when Microsoft tries to do something out of their Windows 10 Phone, they've in practice lost to iOS and Android.
Back then, in the Windows Mobile era, Nokia's Symbian and Blackberry were the dominant platforms.
Back before, in the Windows CE era, Palm's PalmOS was
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They never actually owned the market.
And what if they did? Would that make it better? Typically the main reason Slashdot folks hate Microsoft is precisely because of their dominance in a particular market; now you are suggesting dominating a different market would have made it all ok?
You hate the system? That makes two of us. Don't hate the player; hate the game.
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What right did Microsoft have to get technology encumbered by its patents included as a mandatory part of the SDXC spec?
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It's not patent trolling. Patent trolling is about buying up abandoned (or just generally useless) patents and suing everything that makes money claiming infringement.
These are patents Microsoft owns, filed, and has every legal and moral right to demand be honored.
Maybe some day you will grow up and realize the world is not cleanly divided into two groups of "people who give LichtSpektren stuff for free" and "trolls."
Don't be daft. Microsoft forces SD card manufacturers to sell their cards pre-formatted only with Microsoft-patented file systems. It's monopolistic abuse and there's "every legal and moral right" to punish them for it, only nobody will because they've greased enough politicians' palms to avoid most infractions.
Re:White-washed submission (Score:5, Insightful)
It may be abuse, it may be a stupid patent, but it's not patent trolling. The point is that is a specific form of nastiness that describes company with literally *no* product but a patent portfolio and only makes money through litigation.
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1. Create file system.
2. Use monopolistic weight to force manufacturers to ship with this file system.
3. Use patent on aforementioned file system to charge a toll for anybody who wants compatibility with the hostage-taken manufacturers.
To me, that's not far removed from a law firm buying a patent on left-turn signals and then using patent suits to force every car manufacturer to pay a tax to them, but OK.
Camera manufacturers want a common format (Score:2)
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There is absolutely no reason there couldn't be a file system that is universally readable by all OSs. Microsoft is doing this for the patent tax, and if you think otherwise, you're naive.
Of course there could be, but where is it? How much would it cost to develop and successfully promote as an industry standard? Until then there is FAT. I never said MS wasn't interested in patent royalties, just that they are not patent trolls since they actually developed the technology that others are choosing.
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Re:White-washed submission (Score:4, Insightful)
What's worse is that you've already payed a patent royalty when you bought the card. But then you have to pay again for the ability to read it. That, IMO, is the biggest problem with data format patents. It's one thing to charge the producer of a file format a royalty - if they want to use the format, pay up. But it's another thing entirely to charge the consumer of a file another royalty. They didn't choose the format of the file, they simply bought it and want to be able to use it. We're not talking about a license for the software to read the file - we're talking about legally reverse-engineered software being slapped with a patent royalty.
The same applies to media codecs. If Apple or Amazon (or Google for that matter) want to sell you media files compressed with Microsoft's (or anyone else's) wonderful algorithm, they should pay for the privilege (assuming there's a valid patent on the algorithm). But at that point, the royalty's been paid, and the consumer shouldn't have to be restricted to playback on devices based on whether another royalty was paid.
Maybe if royalties could only be collected at the production end, they'd be higher. But that would only make non-encumbered formats a bigger bargain...
No one would want a common format ? (Score:2)
Microsoft forces SD card manufacturers to sell their cards pre-formatted only with Microsoft-patented file systems.
So you think SD card manufacturers would like to sell platform specific formatted cards instead of a common format that Windows, Mac, and Linux (and many embedded) users can all read/write?
You think Linux users would be happy with pre-formatted ext3 cards that cost a little more due to lower volumes, are a little harder to find in brick and mortar when you are in a hurry?
I imagine SD card manufacturers have a genuine interest in FAT, a common format.
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Or the phone can just say "This SD card needs to be formatted for use with this phone. This will erase everything on this card. Are you sure?" for any non ext3 formatted cards.
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Or the phone can just say "This SD card needs to be formatted for use with this phone. This will erase everything on this card. Are you sure?" for any non ext3 formatted cards.
And when the owners of those phones want to move the SD card to their Windows PC or Mac in order to copy the photos off of it, copy music on to it, etc?
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Most people won't ever want to move the SD card from their phone to the computer...but...Easy, just grab any open source windows EXT3 disk mounting utility for windows, reskin it, package it up in your own installer, include a GPL license with it and put it up on the "downloads" section of the support site. Then include an insert with the phone directing them to the web address on your website on where to download it.
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Most people won't ever want to move the SD card from their phone to the computer...but...Easy, just grab any open source windows EXT3 disk mounting utility for windows, reskin it, package it up in your own installer, include a GPL license with it and put it up on the "downloads" section of the support site. Then include an insert with the phone directing them to the web address on your website on where to download it.
Or license FAT and the user just plugs it in and it works.
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Don't be daft. Microsoft forces SD card manufacturers to sell their cards pre-formatted only with Microsoft-patented file systems. It's monopolistic abuse and there's "every legal and moral right" to punish them for it, only nobody will because they've greased enough politicians' palms to avoid most infractions.
Microsoft forces no such thing. The people who force this is the SDA who define the standards of interoperability of SD cards. Up to SDHC cards used FAT32 as the main file system. SDXC changed this to exFAT as decided by the SDA. Why did they decide it? Microsoft offered to create the design and make it compatible with all versions of Windows dating back to XP, and contrary to popular belief designing a file system is hard, and making it instantly compatible with 100 million Windows PCs is even harder. It w
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You're missing the problem. I don't care that Lenovo is mitigating the problem with bloatware; I've already decided to boycott them over Superfish and the lack of security updates for their phones.
How is any of that relevant?
The problem is that Microsoft is adding ~$10 to the cost of every Android device with their patent trolling.
Ah, I see it isn't. You're simply taking the opportunity to bitch about stuff. Microsoft doesn't really qualify as a troll as they make software, though as a developer one would hazard that many of their patents are probably not novel.
Its not patent trolling (Score:2)
The problem is that Microsoft is adding ~$10 to the cost of every Android device with their patent trolling.
Its not patent trolling when you actually created the thing, others think that the thing would be beneficial to them, and these others are fully aware up front that this thing is covered by a patent.
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If you can't disable them from within Android, use a firewall to deny them any Wifi or cellular data.
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My submission was clearer about this: https://slashdot.org/submissio... [slashdot.org] Lenovo/Motorola aren't going along with this because they legitimately think customers want Microsoft bloatware. They're doing this to avoid the ~$10 patent tax that Microsoft extracts from Android OEMs so that SD cards will work out-of-the-box (their patent on the exFAT file system, to be precise).
Your submission wasn't clearer! Your submission made two separate statements: (1) lenovo+motorola will ship with MS apps, (2) for the past 9 years Android companies have been paying an android tax. Your submission lacked two crucial (and plausible but as far as I can tell unsubstantiated) conjectures: that doing "1" will get them off the hook for "2"; and that this is why they are doing it.
The TRUE future isn't OS, apps/programs... apk (Score:1)
See subject: It's in data/information which those apps/programs merely process & ride on the OS involved to do it...
* It's always BEEN that... & it doesn't MATTER where or HOW you go about it.
APK
P.S.=> It's the "end all/be all" & "raison d'etre" for all of it... apk
Choice? (Score:3)
Exactly the same MS strategy (Score:2)
They don't care if it's the OS or the Office apps, whatever the software they are trying to push they use the same strategy, make it default, force everyone to use their software, force vendors to ship it and nothing else, force schools to teach it and call it computer education so that kids grow up with with office and windows as the definition for "computer".
Because of this, they are still everyone's enemy, so don't pretend like anything has changed... especially after the secure boot shit they pulled on
Poisoning the well... (Score:3)
Addendum (Score:5, Informative)
Not just preinstalled, but fraudulently flagged system so you can't uninstall them. Similar to Facebook and a host of other crapware on my Samsung.
He's So Fine (Score:2)
dressed in yellow tunics, smiling, singing "Hare Krishna"
And then ending up sued by someone smiling and singing "dulang dulang dulang" [vwh.net].
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Embrace and destroy (Score:1)
No kidding? (Score:5, Funny)
"There was a time when Microsoft was seen as the enemy of Linux and Apple communities."
Lol, "there was a time". And that "time" is "now".
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Nope, they want to infect the market space of Samsung and Apple.
Sigh (Score:1)
For the last several years I've enjoyed Motorola phones. Their version of Android is pretty darn vanilla, and the amount of bloat-ware was relatively little.
Oh well.
Super. They can name it (Score:3)
It's about the money- nothing else (Score:2)
Microsoft is still the same evil corporation it was before. The difference is Microsoft lost the OS wars in the end and are solving the problem through the threat of violence on OEMs who would rather not ship with Microsoft's offerings. They're utilizing patents and the courts/legal system (ie violence, theft, etc) to blackmail others into submission (or threat thereof).
Microsoft offers nothing of value to GNU/Linux users and those shipping with Android and similar operating systems. Those patents are all g
Microsoft software on Android (Score:2)
Just makes my pruchasing choice easier (Score:2)
since I now wont consider buying any Motorola or Lenovo phones.
And the problem? (Score:2)
If I buy a Nexus device it will come pre-baked with Google crapware, 90% of which I'll never use. And then every 3 days or so notify me that 9 of those applications have been updated. Is MS Office inherently more evil than the Google suite if you want to open a Word attachment on your phone?
If privacy is your thing, buy a generic device, and flash cyanogenmod with f-droid.
FWIW, I use Outlook on Android because Google can't write an email client. first aosp, then GMail and now some concept interface with Inb
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If I buy a Nexus device it will come pre-baked with Google crapware, 90% of which I'll never use. And then every 3 days or so notify me that 9 of those applications have been updated. Is MS Office inherently more evil than the Google suite if you want to open a Word attachment on your phone?
If privacy is your thing, buy a generic device, and flash cyanogenmod with f-droid.
FWIW, I use Outlook on Android because Google can't write an email client. first aosp, then GMail and now some concept interface with Inbox - they all suck.
On a Nexus device you can disable all of the bloatware except for the Google App itself. (I get around that by using a firewall to drop all its packets, which renders it mostly inert.)