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Get Buff While Geeking Out 241

Two different devices intended to slow the nerd obesity epidemic just came to our attention. PoconoPCDoctor writes about the Geek-A-Cycle, which is a workstation with built-on exercise bike that you have to pedal to run the computer. And several readers pointed out the FP Gamerunner (mirror), reviewed here: think treadmill meets Quake 4. Again, you have to keep moving to stay in the game.
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Get Buff While Geeking Out

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  • by eldavojohn ( 898314 ) * <(eldavojohn) (at) (> on Monday October 09, 2006 @06:06PM (#16370975) Journal
    These devices are a great step forward and I challenge criticisms of them. These are things in their infancy but with our economy as it is, I'll bet there's a few early adopters out there for this technology.

    The only valid criticisms might be cost & intrusion. They are both fairly large devices from what I can tell. In order for them to last a while, I would assume they are made out of solid steel that would be ever present in a living room. Frankly, I'm surprised that they went the bike/running route when it would have been easier to set up a rowing or "hand cycling" device instead. I don't think this device is for the gamer who is looking to tone his already rock hard body so I wouldn't be so concerned which muscles the device works out, only that they achieve a cardiovascular exercise when they use the device. I can think of a contraption for rowing that is quite small (hooks to your feet and has a t-bar for your hands to pull) or a hand peddle device with little more than a base to stabilize it.

    I like the FP GameRunner much more than the Geek-A-Cycle which simply powers the computer ... after all, it's competition that drives the gamer. Hell, if you can make these cheap and very competitive in nature, I'm sure many schools will be interested in using them for gym class []. The only requirement is that you have a healthy mix of strength versus strategy, I doubt that simply pumping your legs for five minutes and the fastest wins will draw many people. Provide a live course that adjusts for the path you take on the trail and penalizes you for falling and I think you're definitely headed in the right direction.

    These are good starts at addressing a growing problem, but I'm hoping innovation kicks in as this market grows. In college, my roommate would watch TV and fix an device to his arm that sent electric shocks to his muscles. He would sit there and twitch and twitch and I just could not stomach that. These are, in my opinion, better that the over medication and electrocution I've witnessed some people put themselves through.
    • But... (Score:5, Funny)

      by Ghost Gerbil ( 996070 ) on Monday October 09, 2006 @06:09PM (#16371003)
      Do you run faster with the knife?
    • by eln ( 21727 ) * on Monday October 09, 2006 @06:13PM (#16371047)
      Personally, my major problem with these (other than ergonomics on the cycle) is the fact that you HAVE to use them to keep going. A geek just starting out with this thing would get winded in 10 minutes and quickly give up, and probably throw the thing out the window because he wants to stay on his computer for more than 10 minutes at a time. Allowing me to, say, cycle for 10 or 15 minutes at a time and then take a break *while still being able to use my computer* would be a lot more helpful.

      Having something like this that allows me to exercise while using my computer is good enough, don't force me to use it by powering off my computer if I stop for a breather.
      • The treadmill is a USB input device. Unplug it and start using your keyboard/mouse again. Looking at the geek-a-cycle site, it appears there is no computer interface: As you think, pedal. When you type, stop pedaling. Yep, looks like there's no excuse for keeping that Mountain Dew Belly there, geekboy.
      • A number of years ago, there was a company called Netpulse that had exercise bikes in health clubs with internet terminals on them. Their market was entertainment-while-exercising, rather than exercise-while-computing, which is a bit different - I hope the Geekcycle works better. Part of the problem was ergonomics - they had a touchscreen rather than a real keyboard, which made it hard to type; you could hit the pageup/pagedown keys without much trouble, but if you wanted to type more than a few words, yo
      • Having something like this that allows me to exercise while using my computer is good enough, don't force me to use it by powering off my computer if I stop for a breather.

        come on... you're supposed to be a geek... how long would it take you to bypass the thing so you could run the PC without having to pedal at all???

    • it would have been easier to set up a rowing or "hand cycling" device instead.

      It probably would have been easier to do it that way, but much harder to use the computer.
    • by MWoody ( 222806 ) on Monday October 09, 2006 @06:47PM (#16371505)
      Hrm... Working out via repetitive hand motions while surfing the Internet... Why does this sound familiar?
    • Dr. Levine, a Mayo Clinic obesity researcher, has found that walking slowly, about a mile per hour, burns calories while not breaking a sweat. It's called "non-exercise activity thermogenesis", or NEAT.

      Levine has devised a computer workstation that integrates a treadmill so you can type and walk. He and his colleagues also walk laps together at the track rather than sit in boardrooms.

      Levine claims that the added workload would equate to loosing fifty pounds per year without any diet change and without
    • Just a clarification, does that Geek-A-Cycle really "power" the computer? Based on what I read, it sounds more like all it does is lock your computer if you start peddling, otherwise you would really be screwed if you had to get off for a minute and you lost all your data because the computer shut down.

      I'm still not sure this would be very appropriate for an office environment, though. For starters, if your office was essentially turned into a gym, you might not be able to stand working there for a typi

    • Challenge accepted. This will only be used by people who actually care about their weight. These are the people who would be hitting the gym, playing sports, or doing some form of cardio activity outdoors. Geeks don't care about exercise. They are going to get thier caffinated soda and doughnuts and plop down in front of their monitor. Geeks would get more out of figuring out how to bypass the device to make the computer think it is pedaling rather than actually work out.

      To combat obesity we have to c
      • by voidptr ( 609 ) on Monday October 09, 2006 @07:12PM (#16371765) Homepage Journal
        We need to keep gym class in the schools so kids get and learn the value of regular exercise.

        I don't know about where you went to school, but gym class in grade school doesn't teach the value of squat. In every school I went to, gym was extra practice for the jocks, except they got to use everyone who wasn't as fast or skilled as them as target practice. You want to turn someone off from physical activity, there's no quicker way to do it than making them play football against the varsity team, or run laps with the track team.
        • In every school I went to, gym was extra practice for the jocks...

          At every school I went to the jocks were exempt from gym class if they choose to be. At one of my schools gym class was only for the freshmen and sophomores, and not only did the usual soccer, football, baseball, but also did dancing (swing, line dancing, et al), archery and others.

          It was quite pleasing to out shoot everyone else in archery because the rest of the kids had typical city families that never shot a gun or went hunting (my f

      • "We need to keep gym class in the schools so kids get and learn the value of regular exercise."

        Keeping gym class in school is nice, but keeping gym class mandatory is ridiculous. By their very nature kids will get more exercise if you let them out of school an hour earlier and skip the gym class. Especially the students who have no interest in sports. Perhaps gym wouldn't be as bad if it were expanded beyond sports (in fact, sports should be eliminated from schools altogether), letting those who did not wan
    • Doesn't anyone just take their dog for a walk anymore? Its free, and you might meet a girl.
    • by Manchot ( 847225 ) on Monday October 09, 2006 @08:20PM (#16372499)
      While I realize that this device provides very healthy aerobic exercise, the title is just wrong. You can't get "buff" with this machine, because cardiovascular work alone simply cannot increase your muscle size. To do this, you need to have some form of resistance training (e.g., lifting weights), as well as a caloric surplus. As a matter of fact, if you were trying to get "buff," this device would be working against you by burning calories that might otherwise be spent building muscle.
      • Good call, but it's definately the first step. Though I think the video on the treadmill site was completely lacking. Something like four seconds of some chick speed-walking and playing a game. That and they should have thrown someone who looked like they could use excercise on the thing rather than that girl.
    • "These are things in their infancy but with our economy as it is, I'll bet there's a few early adopters out there for this technology."

      I am not sure where you are from. But here in the US the economy sucks.
    • I wonder, is there any way to simulate moving in any direction (horizontal of course) in a virtual reality environment? Standing on a giant track ball is the closest thing I can think of but it seems like a poor simulation, not to mention likely to cause injury.
    • ...on something like Discovery Health (about 3-5 years back) where people would have a competition to see who would loose the most weight. They connected one of these to his monitor, and if he stopped peddling, the monitor would stop. I always wanted one because I know it would suit me best as I always have restless feet under my computer desk, and can never find the time to work out. Where do I sign up?
  • I'd hate to have my workstation power dependent on my sales ability. Does the bidding have to keep going up a certain percentage per hour to keep the lights on?

    Ooh, perhaps the editor meant "pedal". Yeah, that makes more sense.

  • by ettlz ( 639203 ) on Monday October 09, 2006 @06:13PM (#16371041) Journal
    ...does that mean I also have to imagine copies of myself riding virtual exercise bikes to keep them ticking over, too?
  • Peddle vs pedal (Score:2, Insightful)

    by CameronGary ( 8441 )
    The person selling this is peddling something; if you got on it, you would be pedaling it. Geez ...
  • Will be the ultimate geek work out program..

    We just haven't figured out how to build it yet.
    • We just haven't figured out how to build [the holodeck] yet.
      A virtusphere [] setup comes pretty close. It just doesn't yet fit in the home gamer's living room or budget.
  • by User 956 ( 568564 ) on Monday October 09, 2006 @06:16PM (#16371087) Homepage
    PoconoPCDoctor writes about the Geek-A-Cycle, which is a workstation with built-on exercise bike that you have to peddle to run the computer.

    With the number of case fans and neon lights a lot of geeks out there have, they may need to hire lance armstrong to keep their gear running.
    • A bicycle generator can fairly easily output 150-200W. That's enough for a modest computer and a TFT (although possibly not a CRT) display. My laptop draws a maximum of 60W, and I could probably generate that much power from a device like this for a very long period.
      • A bicycle generator can fairly easily output 150-200W.

        Yes, if it is a well-trained cyclist who is riding the bicycle. On a road bike, 200 W is equivalent to cycling around 33 km/h (20 mph), assuming that the generator itself has 100% conversion efficiency. No way that someone who's in a bad or mediocre shape will do that for more than 5 minutes.

        • by Firehed ( 942385 )
          But it's plenty to charge your laptop back up. 10MPH isn't at all hard to maintain (especially with no wind), and if that gives you 75-100w, it'll keep you charged.
          • 10MPH isn't at all hard to maintain (especially with no wind), and if that gives you 75-100w,

            Unfortunately, power due to air drag (the major resistance for a lightweight road bike) scales with the 3rd power of the velocity. 75 W amounts to 22 km/h (14 mph). I used the equation P=0.2 v^3 + 4 v with v in m/s, which accounts for the air drag and rolling resistance of a typical racing bike. The numbers are different for bikes with a less aerodynamic posture and thicker tires, but I would say easy-going on a bi

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Rick17JJ ( 744063 )

      I don't believe that the device in the article is actually powering the computer by itself. But, assuming for the moment that is was, then what kind of computer could an overweight middle aged guy like me peddle power for an hour or more? Laptop computers usually tend to be more energy efficient than most desktop computers. I should not plan on trying to peddle power a Pentium 4 with a top-of-the-line power hungry video card and an inefficent power supply hooked to a multiple 19 inch CRT monitors. Yes,

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by Rick17JJ ( 744063 )

        Ooops, I ment to say LCD monitors not LED monitors. Keep in mind that I am not a tech or an expert on the different types of monitors.

        I recently read a review of a computer that uses the EE (energy efficient) versions of the AMD Athlon 64 X2 [] processor which only used 54 Watts. Another alternative for someone doesn't need to run Windows XP or Windows Vista might be the NorhTec MicroClient Jr. []which is a tiny PC that draws 8 Watts and is capable of running Puppy Linux. Puppy Linux is an extra-light weight

  • by GlenRaphael ( 8539 ) on Monday October 09, 2006 @06:18PM (#16371115) Homepage
    the Geek-A-Cycle, which is a workstation with built-on exercise bike that you have to peddle to run the computer.
    No, it isn't. It's just an exercise bike that fits under a desk []. It makes pedaling while working convenient, giving you something to do to keep your legs and heart entertained while you do your work, but doesn't make it mandatory.
  • You have to sell the exercise bike to keep the PC running? Oh, you meant pedal?
  • The Hacker's Diet (Score:4, Informative)

    by GillBates0 ( 664202 ) on Monday October 09, 2006 @06:19PM (#16371133) Homepage Journal
    And while we're talking about geeks and Obesity, let's not forget The Hacker's Diet []. In my experience, it's a sensible and effective way for people with a sedantary lifestyle to lose weight safely, effectively and sensibily. Some comments in this related Slashdot article [] are helpful too.
  • by richg74 ( 650636 ) on Monday October 09, 2006 @06:19PM (#16371151) Homepage
    a workstation with built-on exercise bike that you have to peddle to run the computer.

    If you have to peddle it door-to-door, that will definitely keep you fit, especially in rural areas. It probably works in urban areas, too: the houses are closer together, but the people are more resistant to peddlers. But what do you do to keep fit after you make a sale ?

    • Use the profit to buy another. You'll finally have a profitable geek business and stay fit too.
  • This plus a copy of World of Warcraft would be perfect for training for the next marathon.
  • Reminds me of... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by AKAImBatman ( 238306 ) * <{akaimbatman} {at} {}> on Monday October 09, 2006 @06:20PM (#16371163) Homepage Journal
    ...the Atari Puffer []. That was not a saleable idea either.
  • Cycle? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by ackthpt ( 218170 ) *

    Must be a pretty light work-out, or you have a fan blowing on you. I've worked out on exercise bikes and the one thing you get lots of is sweat. Not perspiration, but highly corrosive sweat. Doesn't seem a good mating of things.

    • If you're going to use a stationary bike for exercise, I strongly recommend a small fan blowing against your legs - especially the uppor portions, and that you wear shorts. Cooling the leg muscles greatly increases your power and endurance - far more than the power cost of the fan if you happen to be pedal-generating.

      That's why stationary exercise bicycles sometimes have a blower, and why (absent the blower) riding an actual bicycle outdoors burns FAR more calories than riding a stationary bicycle indoors.
      • Try eating meat from an animal that's been stressed to death and you won't think that chasing an animal will make it tender...
  • I am solving this problem the cheap way.

    I ditched my car and now get around on a bicycle.

    My commute is 20 miles each way to and from work. That includes goeing up and down an 800 foot hill (Council Crest, in Portland, Oregon).

    I am losing my weight fast.

    I am saving about $400 per month in car related costs now that I got rid of the car.

    People tell me it can't be done, but it' no problem for me so far.

    And I don't need some new fangled cycle/workstation or treadmill/workstation. And I don't need to spend $$$ for waiting to use unwashed health club equipment.

    • by Octorian ( 14086 )
      So how do you get around the problem of being all sweaty and icky when you get to work?
      (Oh, and what if it rains? Then again, the chances of that depend a lot on where you live.)
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Propagandhi ( 570791 )
        In the morings it's generally cool here on planet Earth, so sweat can be controlled merely by not overdressing or overexerting yourself. Also, many employers provide places for employees to shower before work. If your employer does not, ask them about supplying such facilities. If they are smart they'll realize that a healthy (read: lower health insurance premiums) and happy (read: not smelly) work force is worth the minimal utlity costs.

        As for rain, I use a protective rubber suit, consisting of both a "
        • My commute is 35 miles each way by interstate, and takes me roughly 45 minutes by car.

          Even assuming I could find a more bicycle friendly route, I'm sure it would take me at least 2.5 times as long to make the trip. Who wants to spend 5 hours a day getting to and from work?

          • Even assuming I could find a more bicycle friendly route, I'm sure it would take me at least 2.5 times as long to make the trip.

            Overhere that wouldn't be always true; with my bike I can easily go passed trafficjams in the city. Roads leading to the centre are congested. I average 25km/h on my bycicle in the city where cars are much slower moving with drivers sitting frustrated in their cars, shouting and honking, being directed around in one-way streets where byciclists are allowed to pass in two directions

        • As for rain, I use a protective rubber suit, consisting of both a "rain coat" and "rain pants" to keep me from getting wet. I live in Vancouver, and bike through the winter, so don't give me any shit about how that simply wouldn't work where you live (unless you've got an actual monsoon season, in which case you can take the bus :) ).

          I live near Vancouver... all we get here is rain. There's barely even snow, it's so bloody un-Canadian. We had 10x more snow in Indiana than here. While I agree that people c

        • "I live in Vancouver, and bike through the winter, so don't give me any shit about how that simply wouldn't work where you live"

          I'll give you some shit about it. I used to have a job where I could bike to work and would do it except after the first snowfall. Yes, winter in Boston comes with snow, not rain. Try riding in snow on a trail, it is like riding through molasses. Then the snow freezes and thaws into ice that will send you flying. Go on the road and you find out that the plows have created glac
          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            This is where a good mountain bike comes in to play. I know of people who commute in the snow with a mountain bike with big knobbly tires.

            Also, there are those who have taken some small nails and created spiked tires for snow and ice riding. 1/4 or 1/8th in long nails or tacks, poked from inside to outside the tire (and backed with a Mr. Tuffy's to protect the tube from the heads) could do the job.

            And by the way, my ride is 20 miles each way. That's 40 miles total for the day.

            I do this ride two to three day
          • I'll be giving this a try, in Boston, this winter. My plan is to get studded snow tires (Nokians) and to ride in the roads, because I know about the sidewalks and the trails. If that fails, I plan to get my aerobic exercise wandering around the neighborhood and shoveling unshoveled sidewalks into the driveways of the people who were supposed to shovel them in the first place. Supposedly you can be cited for not shoveling your sidewalk, but that never happens.

            I tried out a set of snow chains the other d

    • A 20 mile round trip, twice a week, will let you pick and choose your cycling days, and still lose (my estimate) about a pound per week (I'm down 20 since I got serious about biking more). This is something that you can ease into, if you are the timid/prudent sort. If you need to carry a little bit of cargo, you can build trash can panniers []. If you need a lot, you can get an xtracycle []. I've got one, the handling is great unloaded, and better than expected when loaded.
    • I had mod points to give on your post, but you're at the max! Totally agree with your approach. I used to commute from Brooklyn to mid-town Manhattan in the mid 1970's. Man what a workout! The view of New York Harbor while riding over the Brooklyn Bridge was spectacular. Round-trip was about the same as yours - 20 miles. I got to work a little sweaty at times, but used to shower at work when it was really hot. My resting pulse at the time was about 45.

      Not getting hit by NY taxi drivers, buses, and delivery trucks also added that gaming element to the daily trip.

    • This is my favoured solution too... but I'm pretty much resigned to bike paths, since I've nearly been killed a few times on the roads by people who don't see me, or are concentrating on large trucks, or talking on their cellphone. I haven't actually been knocked off yet, but a bit of bad luck and boom, I'm dead.

      I have managed to work at one place with good bikeways, and clean, non-busy showers in the building, and it was excellent. I saved money, got fitter, and felt better when I started the day. I suppos
    • And you've also lost several hours a day of your time. Bear in mind that cycling is a low-intensity exercise so any weight loss will level out eventually and you'll have to find something else to do.
  • by smellsofbikes ( 890263 ) on Monday October 09, 2006 @06:24PM (#16371227) Journal
    >exercise bike that you have to peddle to run the computer.

    It's *hard* *work* to generate power by selling exercise bikes. Especially door-to-door: lugging three or four of those puppies around in a suitcase will buff you right up.

    I was a bike racer for a long time. At my best I could generate about 350 watts continuously for an hour. A decent computer would suck that dry. I think I'll stick with my Qube-2 [], which only draws about 35 watts. It's challenging to hook a keyboard or a monitor to it, but at least it's low-power!
    • I was a bike racer for a long time. At my best I could generate about 350 watts continuously for an hour. A decent computer would suck that dry.

      350 W is nearly half a horsepower. A fit individual can generate a sustained 0.3 horsepower []. I'd guess that a sedentary geek could generate a sustained 0.15 horsepower (110 W). About enough to power a high-power laptop, but that's it.

  • by rumblin'rabbit ( 711865 ) on Monday October 09, 2006 @06:28PM (#16371281) Journal
    My BMI (body-mass index) is 29.3. That's just on the border between overweight and obese. And yet no one seems to consider me overweight. I take a size 34 waste, my belly doesn't overhang my belt, I can easily run 5 miles at a decent pace, and I keep up to obviously fit people when circuit training. My doctor has never once told me I should lose weight.

    The problem, of course, is that the BMI doesn't compensate for muscle or stature. Now everyone knows the BMI is only a rough guide, and that there are better ways to measure obesity. But if it's the main instrument for claiming an "obesity epidemic" then we have to know how rough.

    If the BMI doesn't work for me, how many others does it not work for?

    • BMI is quick and dirty. Everyone, just about, knows their weight and height. It is probably good enough for 95% of the population (figure picked from my ass, but the 95% confidence interval is the standard for medical testing so I reckon it's a likely figure). Best way would be either caliper body fat, DEXA scanning (though radiation dose), MRI, or about 10 other time-consuming and expensive ways which would make estimation on a population scale impossible.

      It doesn't take account of people who are heavy bec
  • Doop! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by loteck ( 533317 ) on Monday October 09, 2006 @06:30PM (#16371305) Homepage
    What's funny is that not only did I post this back in '03 [] but that I also misspelled pedal in the story body and it didn't get picked up by the editor then either.

    Slashdot is like buddhism for stories. All stories are headed for reincarnation until they reach Nerdvana.

  • I looked at both the obesity articles, none of them mentioned nerds at all. Is there really any proof that this stereotype is an accurate one?

  • Tested this at IHRSA (Score:3, Informative)

    by Foofoobar ( 318279 ) on Monday October 09, 2006 @06:47PM (#16371507)
    I used to be the lead developer at the Microsoft Health Club in Bellevue Washington and had a chance to test one of these at the health expo in Vegas (while I was attending Apachecon). You can't back up, you can't jump, the movements are very limited. I saw several of these device and while they were all nice, they all lacked in some way. Overall, I wouldn't suggest thes to anyone until they can get these prices down. I ended up just going home and buying a couple of dance dance revolution pads for my Playstation.
  • I've been looking for something like this for a while. I spend most of my non-working day either in front of the TV or on the PC, and it shows. The area around here isn't that great, so I can't go for a daily run or walk, and I'm too lazy/self-concious to go to the gym. I've been trying to do DDR once a day, but living on the second floor of an apartment building puts a crimp on that.

    This kind of thing would be great to help me lose some extra weight without getting bored while excersizing. Perhaps set up s
  • by MS-06FZ ( 832329 ) on Monday October 09, 2006 @06:55PM (#16371603) Homepage Journal still pumped from using the mouse.
    • I'm just happy that something other than my right bicep is going to get a workout while using the computer.
  • Cool idea...

    Those laptops can get damned hot though.. might not be safe.

    I can't find any definition of 'buff' that makes sense in the headlines context: &btnG=Google+Search&meta= []

    Get yellowish-brown whilst geeking out?

    Gotta love slashdot.. invent new terms just for fun.
    • by Kredal ( 566494 )
      in case you are serious, try "define:buffed"

      A typo or misuse of a word is better than "making up words"...
  • Heh, this would be interesting in a large company's corporate gym - set up two dozen of them and have two teams go at it. If you're in a team, you've more reason to keep at it (or you let the rest of the team down), and teammates would be encouraging each other to keep going. Team building and exercise all in one.
  • [] by far the best out there. I have used it extensively on both PS2 and PC for FPS, puzzle and racing games. This is a fantastic controller, not just an exercise machine. No I am not a paid representative.
  • "you have to peddle" why would selling the thing give you any exercise? Does that mean you have to try to hawk it door to door? May work that, seeing that nobody would want it...
  • .. also work. I play my gameboy advance while using an quality exercise bike, the big thing about exercise is that you need something to keep your mind busy or else you will be bored out of your mind.
  • Was this YouTube video [] of Far Cry [] game?
  • Just give me a safe appetite suppresant. That's all I need. I lost some 50+ pounds on Redux - that stuff worked. Now it's off the market.

  • How can you camp if you have to keep moving? These games will destroy FPS as we know it.
  • This 1981 article in Mother Earth News [] cites a father who lived offgrid, who submitted to his kids' demands for television with a bicycle generator that charged a battery for a 12 volt TV. 1/2 hour of cycling got them one hour of TV.

    They have a three [] part [] article [] on how to build your own, with detailed instructions.
  • Awesome! So they're finally making a Quake MMORPG?
  • With a small hardware modification, you can plug the power directly into the PC, and then you don't have to peddle any more. The modification is only a $3 cable, but if you want to be able to download the instructions, you have to join our web site which is $20 per year. You also get wifi firmware with it. :-)
  • Too bad mine isn't a game. It still kicks your arse. My indoor trainer []
  • Cycling isn't going to get you buff. Try hitting the gym and picking up some weights. What a bunch of nerds you guys are.
  • I bought myself an elliptical trainer last year. My laptop rests comfortably on the hand grips. I bought an Easy Chair Mount [] with a couple extra vertical segments -- the guys who sell the mount are happy to help you figure out what you need -- and used it to mount a 21" LCD (the Dell 1600x1200 one) just in front of the trainer. It works nicely; I can read my email and do my morning Web surfing on a decent-size screen and before I know it my water bottle is empty and I've had my morning aerobic workout. It i

This process can check if this value is zero, and if it is, it does something child-like. -- Forbes Burkowski, CS 454, University of Washington