Paypal Agrees to Consumer Protections 136
davidwr writes "Paypal settled a suit with Maryland and 27 states. Among other things, they'll conspicuously advertise a contact phone number and staff it 14 hours a day and be much more forthcoming about when they will debit your bank account. For those of you who think Paypal Sucks, well, starting soon it sucks just a little less."
finally (Score:5, Insightful)
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Yes! It's about time this clamp-down happened. I'm glad that PayPal will now be forced skin me alive according to the best principles.
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Suckage (Score:2, Interesting)
Do people really think that when a corporation gets ordered by a court to behave in a different way, that the organisation will really change? At best, the screwing over and offensive behaviour will become more subtle, or "accepted" (by their customers) screwings from other finance houses will be done by PP but "enhanced". Shit like them taking x days to transfer money about, for example.
But they still suck, I
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If you would like you can give me your banking information and for the small fee of $1 I will send you detailed information on why what you are doing is dan
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If I pay someone on ebay by a bank transfer, they give me their details, not the other way round (so my privacy is actually maintained, of course they get an address to post the goods to). I don't use ebay much, but from my recent use it appears that a reasonable amount of (power?) sellers openly publish their bank details for payers' convienience. To transfer money I need the accounts name, sort code and account number, and with that info I can only put money into the account, not remove any. The ebay sell
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The obvious exception here being the Direct Debit scheme, although that does require specific written approval and carries significant consumer protections of its own.
o (British) bank should let.... (Score:2)
How do you think I setup all those direct debits on my girlfriends bank account then?
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I do have her permission to setup direct debits but the bank doesn't know that and still lets me set them up, accasionally using my name instead of hers.
All you have to do to setup a scam is setup a company and begin taking Direct debits over the internet.
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OK, so it follows that the fewer places my bank details are, the less likely a direct debit could be set up to hoover my account. So by not using Paypal, by not even having an account (anymore), I cannot be phished, nor can PP be cracked (tech or social) and my details getting out.
Though my bank details may be visible to other ebay users I buy from, and by extension their accounts could be hacked and my details obtained by a crook, but this is pretty unlikely. But by the sounds of it the DD scheme is ve
Re:Suckage (Score:4, Informative)
Occasionally it's been known to turn to kidnaping and ransom when people visit Nigeria to try to get their money back or even follow an invitation to "help".
It's also called "Advance Fee Fraud". I still don't know why it's the Nigerians who make it so famous, since the scam has been played for centuries, even without bank transfers. They just seem to have turned it into a national industry.
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Offtopic - comment on signature (Score:2)
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"Under terms of the settlement agreement, PayPal said it is not admitting any liability for the allegations in the dispute."
From the actual court transcript: "Your Honor, my client PayPal is sorry, but not sorry for what the plaintiffs thought we should be sorry for. I mean sorry in a general yet noble way. My client will keep doing what they were doing but with a much more cautious unscrupulousness.
At the same time, Your Honor, PayPal recognizes that people were genuinely angry and my client is si
Nope, they'll still suck (0800 358 7929) (Score:5, Informative)
- locking out accounts for 'attempted signing in from another country' - yeah, without even getting a correct password
- only use a password to secure accounts
- only provide a national rate number in the UK, although you can get them on 0800 358 7929 for free
- expect you to send absolutely everything by fax yet they won't talk to you except by email
- not allow you to speak to anyone in the dispute or resolution centre, leaving you arguing with sales staff who don't have a clue
- make it impossible to close your account if it is locked, even after providing all the information you can and no money left in there
I'm disgusting with Paypal and going through the process of deleting my account. It's not easy, but I'll keep trying. Paypal will always suck in the UK it seems...
Dug
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If there's a payment problem on eBay, eBay will say "No, it's Payal's problem."
You go and contact Paypal, they say "No, it's eBay's problem."
See here [clarkhoward.com]
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Re:Nope, they'll still suck (0800 358 7929) (Score:5, Interesting)
Bleh. Asshats.
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I think the wording of their e-mail was a bit misleading, but still
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Tell me something.. how the hell do you delete a paypal account? I've had one for a while and not used it. So where the hell are the interface options for killing the account? I don't feel comfortable having an idle paypal account linked to my bank account. It's asking for trouble. But I can't find any clear method in their user interface for deleting your account, or requesting to have it removed. Their UI is so horrible.. it's just awful.
How are you "going about deleting" it?
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It's very easy to simply de-link the bank account from your PayPal account. It's not a perfect solution, but it's at least a good immediate patch.
Re:Nope, they'll still suck (0800 358 7929) (Score:5, Informative)
I went into the old account and apparently someone had complained that the printer I sold on ebay and advertised as "broken, parts only, as-is" didn't work upon recipt. So they charged me back the $20. So now, 4 years later, I have a PayPal account with a -120 balance, an "open collections" account on my credit history, and will never ever EVER use PayPal again.
The worst part is, even after I deleted that checking account, they tried to withdraw the 20 dollars for the charge-back from it. They tried four times! I was broke at the time, didn't even have 20 dollars in the account, so I got charged 25 dollar "insufficent funds" from them also. They can rot for all I care I will not pay that. I would have paid the $20 originally because it was my mistake for using eBay... but I will not pay the additonal fees. I filed a complaint against PayPal at my bank, and they told me that "they hear that a lot about them" and that they've blocked PayPal from ever touching my account...
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Re:Nope, they'll still suck (0800 358 7929) (Score:5, Informative)
They will continue to suck, but you don't have to let them get away with it over here. Unlike in the US, the UK holds Paypal responsible for nonsense like this. Screw their "customer support" lines, go directly to the Financial Ombudsman [financial-...man.org.uk] - Paypal is permitted 8 weeks from the time you initially state your complaint, and then the Ombudsman can take over. This is a tax-funded service that is free to you as a consumer; Paypal is obliged to cooperate with them as a condition of doing business in the UK at all. Any decision made by the Ombudsman is binding on Paypal in the same manner as a court judgement would be.
Having taken care of that, feel free to report the whole affair to the Financial Services Authority [fsa.gov.uk]. Where the Ombudsman takes care of your case, the FSA shakes the company by the neck until they stop creating more cases. This one in particular:
is an offence that already carries a hefty fine if proven. A company regulated by the FSA is not allowed to create barriers like this; they are required to have a clear and efficient complaints procedure and follow it precisely.
Lastly, the Office of Fair Trading [oft.gov.uk] can also weigh in when any company doing business in the UK fails to handle complaints in a reasonable manner or generally tramples on their customers for profit, in the unlikely event that the FSA is not interested.
Why use Paypal in the UK? (Score:1)
Personally, I'm underwhelmed (Score:5, Funny)
In fact it sucks less by precisely the minimum decrement of suckage allowed under law, and only then when compelled by the court. Way to go, paypal.
This doesn't make them any more honest, it just stops one of their unfair practices. I'm sure they can think of others.
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I suppose this means that paypal is going to have to set new hours of operation for their website, something like 11am till 3:30pm. I'd expect a "Down for Maintenence" page any other time of day..
Consumer Suspicions (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm more interested in when they will be sued for blocking accounts [slashdot.org] based on "terrorist" last names.
Human rights [un.org], anyone?
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Though you might have to wait for the UN to act on things like the genocide in Darfur, religious intolerance and persecution in Saudi Arabia, political prisoners in Cuba and Venezuela, and other human rights problems around the world, before they get to yours. I kno
PayPal not sucking? (Score:5, Funny)
Does it mean that PayPal will stop blocking accounts (and the money in them) for peregrine reasons like, in my case, your name sounding similar to Al Qaeda's terrorists? And I'm not even in the same continent nor religion as them!
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BTW, it is so easy to change your name in that part of the world, middle-east south Asia. Why dont you get new documents with a different
Re:PayPal not sucking? (Score:5, Interesting)
Paypal DOES suck. And they SHOULD be regulated like a bank. I suspect their business model might have issues if they do, though.
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referance please? though i really wouldn't be suprised if it actually is true.
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The worst part is that unless you can prove to both Paypal and Homeland Security that you're not who they think you are, you're up a creek, and neither Paypal nor Homeland Security are any fun to deal with.
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Here is why they sucked 4 me.. . (Score:3, Interesting)
They say i did not suppy tracking information when asked. I had 3 days to send this info before my account was jacked by some little twerp. (zabasearch gave me his home address) I did not check this email because it is only used for paypal, & with no business going on.. why check it?
So not only did i loose the data i sold,.. but i ended up paying somebody to take it for me.
So if you sell something as a "service" how are you to provide a tracking number? Any graphic or website payment can be charged back
-another loophole & it seems that paypal does not give a shat about the person who has been using the service from the beginning.
now i have to deal with the twerp & waste more time.
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So, you were in fact contacted. I'm not arguing that what they did was right, but your anger at not being contacted is misplaced.
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I have not had any quams untill now with PP.. but that was before i lost money.
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Also, you're not going to be dragged to their locality if you don't obey the court order. I don't know of any cases where this has happened.
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Two points (Score:2)
Have a server that contains your files, with a validation code or password protected directory. Send the validation code by mail. Being that I've seen people listing $5.00 shipping for web-only or non-tangible items, it should be pretty to list a $2.00 postage fee or whatever it is to send the thing by registered make.
Again, it's a pain in the ass, but it's a good method of verification.
Secondly, make a small claims case
Happy Days! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Having a US toll-free number places no restriction on call centre location.
It's pretty easy to route calls to places like India, China, Indonesia, Vietnam or Australia.
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If that toll-free number works within the continental USA, you'll be able to get at it through Skype, at least.
Wah? (Score:2, Offtopic)
PayPal not sucking is as improbable as Slashdot not duping.
Thanks, thanks, I'll be here all week.
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SCUMMVM (Score:3)
It'd suck even less if they'd allow donations for SCUMMVM [slashdot.org] again...
Just a little less (Score:2)
Not to play the devil's advocate... (Score:1)
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I expect Paypal (and any other company that functions like them, offering bank-like services) to not only attempt to make money but also give its customers a sense of security when using their services. A company in that line of business based in the U.S. is only going to go so far before the government does someth
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re: What do I expect from PayPal? (Score:2)
I'm not so sure that people would like the results if they got what they clamor for when they beg govt. to regular PayPal as though they're just anothe
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The problem I'm saying is that it's very much a "wild west" situation with PayPal right now. Although one can risk them not taking advantage of you and your money one can't guarantee that it's not going
I hate when websites advertise paypalsucks.com (Score:5, Interesting)
StormPay
iKobo
YowCow
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Why are they so anxious to hide their identiti
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Merchant accounts are their own particular brand of evil, but less evil than Paypal, as they have their own particular rules that they follow.
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I've never had a problem with PayPal, but I admit I don't really use them as a merchant processor. I just use them for the occasional payment. However, their pricing seems pretty good, regardless of whether it's the best. In addition, I recall having one problem with a purchase several years ago (before eBay bought them), and I got a full refund. (The merchant didn't deliver.)
How is PayPal evil but not the competitor that's posing as some kind of consumer activist site?
I'm not
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Paypal is evil in that they act
Meet Mansoor (Score:1, Flamebait)
Mansoor lives in Mumbai. He'll be staffing that line, 14 hours a day. Good luck getting through to him.
The devil, as always, is in the details.
Wouldn't have believed it... (Score:2)
The mode of the customer service isn't the problem, it's the quality. Even if there are live operators, that won't make any difference if they keep locking accounts for no apparent reason, or for reasons the customer isn't at fault for, or if the operators can't take reasonable action without customer acrobatics. The attitude and practices at PayPal are what need to be changed.
O
Satisfied customer (Score:1)
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since we're trading anecdotes ... (Score:2)
(whistles nervously, knocks wood
Kind of weak (Score:2)
Basically, PayPal pays states' legal fees and the lawsuit goes away.
I am won of the winners of this lawsuit (Score:2, Interesting)
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Sucky job (Score:2)
Why do I get the image of a single employee sitting in a room with a single phone line and phone, answering calls from irate people who have been getting a busy signal for the last 14 hours?
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Besides, I though your party found Jews bashing to be cool, nowadays.
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I thought a company still had a right to determine who their clients were as long as it wasn't based on race. If a company wants to ban a group because they promote hate, isn't that their right. Imagine is a Jewish guy owned Paypal and had to put up with people selling Holocaust lamp shades and wallets. Should he have to take that kind of crap?
Sure Malcom X was a racist. He hated white people. Look where he grew up and the time period. I'm not saying racism is good, but I can
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Someone does not have to be jewish, black, injun or purple to understand and hate oppression and those that support it.
The SAME right those people utilize to talk their 'crap' (whether it be black power, white power or "kill the white people" by tyrone green and his reggae band) is the right that PAYPAL utilizes to NOT DEAL WITH THEM.
If some skinhead with a swastika on his shirt walks into my shop cussing up "this that or the other", I'm going to send him right out again. I don't care if he's
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In Soviet Russia, YOU take money from PayPal!
Re:i've had no trouble with paypal (Score:5, Insightful)
In July, I sold an item on eBay, got paid for it, life went on. Second week of September, I get an email from Paypal saying that they had reason to believe this item was paid for with fraudulent funds, and asked me to provide tracking info, etc., for the item sold. I did, gave them everything they asked for.
Two weeks later, I get another email from them, stating:
"We have conducted a review of a payment that you received. In this case, returning the funds to the sender was determined to be the appropriate action, and we have completed a reversal of the payment. Good selling practices, like trackable shipping, prompt shipment, and communication between buyer and seller help prevent disputes."
Huh? I provided them with a tracking number, delivery was confirmed, item was shipped the same day payment was received. I contacted the buyer (this person has purchased multiple items from me, I have no reason to not trust them), asked them if they knew anything more than I did. They have not received any refund from Paypal, and in fact didn't even know there was a problem.
So, who was my money "returned" to? Repeated emails to Paypal have been ignored, so I've closed my account, I'll never use Paypal again.
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SUE their pants out of their arse, then (Score:2)
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Paypal loves that arguement (Score:2)
$30
x 500
=
$15,000 (profit)
I'm fairly sure that phone companies use a similar tactic. Locally, Bell is one of the worst. My previous co-worker, with astounding dedication, would usually end up donating about two lunch-hours a day on the phone fixing his bill. He would go over it monthly, and discovered that (during about a 7 month p