Xbox 360 adds 1080p Support 349
jayintune writes "2old2play has received news from the TGS (Tokyo Game Show) that Microsoft plans on releasing an update that will enable 1080p support on their Xbox 360 console. From the article, "users can expect 1080p upscaling immediately on current games and DVDs while native 1080p on compatible HD DVD titles." What could this mean for Sony now that MS has 1080p as well?" Now honestly, show of hands: who has their console (not PC!) connected to a display device capable of 1080p? Who plans on buying a device capable of 1080p?
2nd question (Score:3, Insightful)
3rd question (Score:3, Insightful)
Do either the Xbox 360 Component HD AV Cable [xbox.com] or Xbox 360 VGA HD AV Cable [xbox.com] support 1080p ?
My guess is they don't - they certainly don't list it on the product pages in the links - so 360 owners will need to pony up for another cable, one capable of the 124MHz signalling needed to do 1080p/60 (so spec'd at ~350MHz).
Another question is, what about 1080p movies (if Microsoft sell a lot of the HD DVD add-on drives)? There's no HDCP path on the 360, so either the movie studios forget all about their latest copy
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Both the VGA cable and the Component cable do support 1080p. The only issue is that most of the 1080p TVs sold do not support 1080p over component. There are some [westinghousedigital.com] exceptions [samsung.com], but generally they don't. But there's a lot more TVs that accept VGA and DVI, which will handle 1080p fine.
This still doesn't answer the ICT question of course, so we should assume that ICT protected movies wont work. It sucks, but the less DRM support around, the better.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
They'll probably surprise us one day. I mean, they've got to figure out eventually that copy protection isn't worth the mess it makes, right?
Current Cable support (Score:3, Insightful)
As for the show of hands:
I have a 54" HD DLP Television and I am enjoying the 360s HD output quite a lot. These TVs are no longer in the 5000 dollar range. I got the most vivid one in it's class for way under $2000. I mean you can get a 40" one with only 2 inputs at walmart for under $800. At this price it costs less than my 35" CRT low def television did
Re:Current Cable support (Score:4, Funny)
Easy (Score:2)
Xbox Live Arcade games. Simple enough to render at 1080p, with full frame rate and AA. The existing ones won't, but they can be patched, and new ones certainly could.
No reason why full games couldn't run at 1080p either, just as with the PS3. There are always going to be a handful of games that are simply not that demanding. Ports of previous-gen driving games with identical textures but 1080p rendering, anyone?
more importantly... (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Is there any way to check this on a monitor? I am currently looking into a 37" 1080p Westinghouse monitor (around $1500) but it would be nice to know if it does these 1080p versions. I am guessing the LCD sync rate can easily handle 24,30, and 60, but you never know.
How do you check this on a source? Do people publish this info? I have not seen much of it.
Where is a good source for X info for LCD screens? They have VGA inputs, but for linux/mythtv I think you may need a modeline to make it all pretty..
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The judder, by the way, is only rarely noticeable and is pretty much the same everywhere else AFAIK, but it would be nice to get rid of it. The software infrastructure for detecting the fr
Re: (Score:2)
Thanks for the useful info. Sounds like it could hold most frames in 24 fps signal for two frames, but 1/4 of the frames are held for three frames, to give 60 fps. Or do they actually process the frames and interpolate the signal to fill gaps I wonder.
Do the DVD players figure this crap out? Do they run both 24fps and 30 fps? The output to my analog tv is the same no matter, I assume.
If you rip it to HD, can you reencode a 24fps to 30 or 60 fps? It still judders, I assume...
Anybody got a suggestion on
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
3:2 Pulldown is correct. The way it works is that when you have a 24fps source, and need to get it to traditional video (roughly 30fps/60 fields*), you have to repeate frames.
Here's how it works. Four film frames have to fit into 5 video fields/frames. Let's label these film frames A, B, C, and D. We'll use numbers for the video fields. So what you have is:
1.AA 2.BB 3.BC 4.CD 5.DD
Now for a 60 FRAME output, it's a little easier:
1.A 2.A 3.B 4.B 5.B 6.C 7.C 8.D 9.D 10.D
So, getting a 24fps source t
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Except it's updating half the lines, meaning any object moving will have the jagged edges of interlaced content. That fucks a lot more with your mind than a smooth line moving at 30fps. Try playing any video game (probably the most intense need for "smooth" you'll have) in interlaced. What's that? Every monitor you've had in the last 10 years i
Re: (Score:2)
You can actually mimic a 30p signal with a 60i display.
In the case of video games, for example, you can tell the engine to run at 30fps/full frame, but divide each frame into fields. This way you still get a (roughly) 30p display. The lines aren't drawn progressively, but one image takes up two fields, each field showing half the image.
Raises Hand (Score:3, Interesting)
The Perils of Today's Console (Score:5, Insightful)
The primary problems is that games for consoles usually are only made for that console for about 3~4 years. So the price drop on 1080p displays has to drop in that time frame to give me a bit of time to enjoy it.
A secondary problem I see is that consoles are consoles. They're supposed to be a standardized unit in which I can assure myself that everyone is having the same playing experience. This seems to no longer be true with the different models of Xbox360 or PS3 they are planning. And, frankly, it turns me off a bit. Is it a good thing that consoles are becoming more like computers? And if it is, why aren't we just buying a special USB controller from these companies and running everything on our computers?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I was going to make my own parent post but you pretty much summed it up already so I'm just going to bandwagon.
A secondary problem I see is that consoles are consoles. They're supposed to be a standardized unit in which I can assure myself that everyone is having the same playing experience. This se
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I think you're crazy. PC's are more expensive than consoles, and they have windows, so just release the game for windows. You don't have to reboot the box, you can Alt-Tab and get on ICQ or IM, or check your email. You can click on content on a website that will launch the game right then (ie., a replay, a new map, a server to play on). People like consoles becuase they are cheap, they can get the games at blockbuster, they ALWAY w
Re: (Score:2)
People can have a laptop and a console. The two combined will give you everything you need that a current PC can offer you. Don't forget that the Wii is going to support web browsing.
I've always bought desktop PCs because I'm into gaming, but since I got my 360, I felt it was too costly to keep my PC up to date. And I just can't be bothered to play games at my desk anymore. Instead, I'm goi
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Fancy but no more (Score:4, Insightful)
Some people will already be on 1080p and a few already are, but any sane company would go for the masses, not the less than 1 percent cake of people who are looking for top notch hardware.
I am definitely waiting for 1080p as my next TV replacement, but anything above $2,000 is just not gonna do it for me, so I'll wait a little longer and stick to 720p, which is also very nice.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Who plans on buying a device capable of 1080p? (Score:3, Interesting)
Me. Just as soon as I can find one without Digital Compatibility Prevention [wikipedia.org].
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Check out Westinghouse's selection of 1080p monitors. They have no tuners, which makes them trend-agnostic when it comes to that can of worms. They support all the HD resolutions and they have HDMI and DVI connections in addition to all the component, s-video and composite you could neeed. The digital ports are able t
Re: (Score:2)
That is exactly my point. HDCP should be boycotted, and I will not buy any equipment which subscribes to such draconian measures. That means no players, no consoles, no screens, no scalers, no tuners, and no mixers which have the ability to either encode or decode HDCP.
Whether it uses DVI or HDMI or HD-SDI is irrelevant. HDMI is actually quite a good cabling specification (although given that HD-SDI (with
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
(Raises hand!) (Score:4, Insightful)
Why? Because the true 1080p, rear projection, 50" TVs are not much more expensive than a 1080i TV, but I plan on hooking up a Mac Mini or similar computer output, thus I'd want all the pixels when displaying text etc on the big screen.
Re:(Raises hand!) (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
What does this mean for monitors? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Matt
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Right here! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Well (Score:3, Insightful)
The XBox 360 has a VGA cable. (Score:2)
updated console... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I have 1080p already but.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I see this argument all the time. I have to disagree with you. Let's look at the actual resolution for each signal.
720p: 1280x720
1080i: 1920x540 (for all practical purposes)
1080p: 1920x1080
Now, let's figure this out in terms of that oh-so-popular megapixel:
720p: .9MP (921,600)
1080i: 1MP (1,036,800)
1080p: 2MP (2,073,600)
So while a 1080i signal may not contain as much vertical resolution, the horizontal resolution is still much greater, producing 115,200 more pixels than 720p.
Each signal has it's own
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Upconversion is not the same as original content. Digg has an uneducated comment about how upconversion of DVDs makes high definition movie content less attractive (on the future PS3) -- upconverted DVDs don't look anywhere near as good as true HD original content. I watch
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Also a lot of folks with new HD stuff don't give their TV scalers enough credit, these things are good, most of them excellent, especially in the big-brand sets. So doing what you are doing is defi
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You have to remember that when you have an interlaced signal, the two interlaced frames are not from the same time frame. With CRT's it is not a big deal as your eyes and brain fill in the difference nicely (between scans). But when you have to convert it to a digital display, it becomes a very difficult problem.
Once you have 1080P, it will look superior to 720P since you are skipping at least one additional upconverting s
My hand is down... (Score:2)
I am cheap (Score:3, Interesting)
It supports a bewildering choice of resolutions; not because it's got them all, but because it's so few. 480i. 480p. 1080i. It was sooo cheap (less than $300 at Thanksgiving last year)
I don't see why I would want 1080p; the 1080i mode is rock solid stable and has nice contrast. What I want is 720i or 720p support on my fucking TV, so I can buy a games console that runs in there or knock my PC resolution down to a readable level
Performance? (Score:2)
First Gen Hi-Def User (Score:2)
Who plans on buying a device capable of 1080p? (Score:2)
Oh, come on now. (Score:2, Troll)
Here, let me rephrase:
FFS.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm still happy with 480i.
Re: (Score:2)
Slashdot worthy (Score:3, Insightful)
And then this tagged on comment: "Now honestly, show of hands: who has their console (not PC!) connected to a display device capable of 1080p? Who plans on buying a device capable of 1080p?"
Yeaa! Let's laugh at Microsoft for adding 1800p and we don't have any! Muhaha!
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
"Microsoft adds compelling feature for free to all Xbox 360 owners!
I do, with qualifiers (Score:2)
I've decided to hold off on getting an HDTV until I can get my hands on a set that meets the following qualifications:
Of course, such a television does not exist and pro
Re: (Score:2)
However Sony make some bloody nice ones that do 1080i;
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity
is 1080p a reality in this generation??? (Score:5, Insightful)
On a console running at 1080p you have 1920x1080 pixels x8 bits (for non floating point HDR) That means 15.8 meg per frame buffer. A game typically has multiple buffers it renders to (especially for post processing effects) so there is almost 32meg consumed just so you can display an image. If you are using true floating point HDR one of those buffers would be 32meg.
If you are rendering at 720p a frame buffer is 7 meg for 8bit and 14 for 32bit float HDR.
There is also an impact on fill rate. The 1080p requires more than twice the fill rate. That means (when fill-rate bound) the frame rate must be cut in half or the effects being used must be reduces.
On the PS3 with a practical fill rate of 15GB/s to local video memory, you can overdraw a 1080p scene at 60fps only 16 times. That has a serious impact on use of particle effects, multi-pass rendering, and post processing. At 720p that overdraw rate increases to 36 times.
On an xbox360 the eDRAM affords a greater fill rate (64GB/s) so it could better handle the demands of 1080p but it has to contend with the 10Meg limit on the eDRAM. This means a 1080p scene would require a 4 pass tiled rendering and a 2 pass for scene post processing.
So basically I don't think we will even see true 1080p games without those games reducing their visuals significantly. I would rather have a slick looking 720p at 60fps than a 1080p that looks last generation.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Your math here is off in a couple of ways. First, that would be 15.8 megabits, not megabytes. That comes out to about 2 megabytes. Next, that's per 8-bit color channel. For your primary display, you are gonna need 3 of those for RGB (6MB), if not a 4th for alpha or even just memory alignment (8MB). For the backbuffer, you'll need another 8MB buffer, plus probably a 32bit depth buffer (another 8MB). So 8MB for the front
1080p not as expensive as you think (Score:4, Informative)
I would (Score:2)
Glad I spent the extra $500 for a 1080p over a 720p set.
HP L2335 23" lcd, 1920x1200 (Score:2)
But I would never buy a Microsoft product, so I'll have to consider the PS3.
360 - 1080p TV = Me (Score:2)
Me. I have an *87 series Samsung 50" DLP and enjoy it very much.
1080p over component even possible? (Score:2)
WTF is up with this flamebait? Let Zonk do games! (Score:2)
Criminy, CmdrTaco, please let Zonk do the game-related posts. Even if he doesn't know the difference between Xbox Live and Xbox Live Arcade.
But what's the deal with this flamebait? Is the point to this hypothetical (I assume) question to point out that both Sony and Microsoft's support of 1080p is pointless because not a lot of people have televisions t
Well, lets keep in mind (Score:2)
What does this REALLY mean?
Well, first off it means that Microsoft will finally be releasing an HDMI cable for the Xbox360, which many, many people have requested. People who do not use the HDMI hookup will not be able to take advantage of
missing some info (Score:2)
I find this odd for several reasons. a) There is no "Xmas shopping craze" in japan. b) they'll miss out on said craze in North America.
The only reason why I can see them doing this is because they're getting really desperate to get some units out in japan. Selling 1000 consoles a week just isn't going to cut it, and they know that. Well, you gotta give them some credit for being persistant. Not many companies can fail so badly in
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:1080p, me! (Score:5, Funny)
Hmmm, dubious (Score:2, Insightful)
Please state the make and model of your 1080p capable plasma set.
On top of that alot of progs are 1080p
Australia must be waaaaay ahead of the curve, I didn't think anyone had the bandwidth to broadcast in 1080p? I don't see why they would anyway since the number of people who can actually watch anything in 1080p can probably be counted on your hands.
I call BS on this one. I have no doubt that the op could have a 1080i, that's very common. A
Re: (Score:2)
I suspect it's more a misunderstanding of the the difference between "i" and "p" than intentional BS, but you're right about the format http://www.dba.org.au/index.asp?sectionID=15 [dba.org.au].
As it stands in AU digital HD tv's a nice-to-have rather than a great leap forward in quality. I've built a MythTV box around a Leadtek DTV2000H, and watch it on a 20" LCD monitor, but most people aren't too interested in switching from
Re:1080p, me! (Score:5, Informative)
No-one in Australia transmits anything at 1080p. ABC and SBS "HD" are 576p, although they have almost no "real" HD content - most all of it is upsampled SD. Seven is also 576p, although I think their "HD" broadcasts actually have 1080i sources. Both Nine and Ten broadcast in 1080i (even sport, which kind of sucks).
Re: (Score:2)
"Show of hands, who here plans on buying a display capable of 1080p in the next 5 years?"
Re: (Score:2, Offtopic)
Having said that, at a guess, yeah, I'll probably buy a 1080p TV by then. My current one does 1366x768 native. It says it'll accept 1080 input (I forget which one) but of course it's going to downsample that.
I only paid $1700 for mine about 6 months ago. It's a Polaroid, so I didn't expect much from a cheap LCD, but I've been very very happy with it. I could wish it would accept the signal from t
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
I was in a big box store just looking and got hammered by sales people touting their wares and they said that only the highest end are 1080p for now.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
My 30" inch dell runs 1080P in a little window, since the native resolution is like 2650x1600...
Now I need 1600p video!
Re:I feel really sorry for you. (Score:5, Interesting)
Now, if you literally are spending an entire year's pay on a TV, then your debt structure must be astounding, because that's probably not the only large purchase you've gone into debt for. However, going into massive debt still doesn't mean someone has no life, it just means they suck at money management.
Re:1080p, me! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:random number with a letter at the end (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:7 Years Late (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Because it's more power/space-efficient?
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
ps3 blue ray
some shite ms thing
ps3 1080p
some shite ms thing
ipod
some shite ms thing
google
some shite ms thing
(I kid, I kid!)
Re: (Score:2)
No, I require porn at higher than 640x480.