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Microsoft

Father of Wiki Quits MS, Moves to Eclipse 156

linumax writes "Microsoft has lost one of its high-profile hires to an open-source consortium. Mike Milinkovich, executive director of the Eclipse Foundation, announced on Monday that Ward Cunningham is leaving Microsoft to join the staff of the open-source tool consortium. Cunningham's new title is Director of Committer Community Development.Cunningham, the father of the Wiki concept, joined Microsoft about two years ago. At Microsoft, he was not involved directly in social-networking-software development. Instead, Cunningham worked as an architect with the company's Patterns & Practices Team."
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Father of Wiki Quits MS, Moves to Eclipse

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  • Father (Score:3, Funny)

    by smvp6459 ( 896580 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2005 @10:16AM (#13816908)
    Boy how I'd like to father a wiki.
  • Wikipedia (Score:4, Interesting)

    by WebfishUK ( 249858 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2005 @10:17AM (#13816919)
    What was he doing there anyway?
  • About time (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Sheepdot ( 211478 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2005 @10:18AM (#13816932) Journal
    With all these individuals leaving Microsoft for open source or other commercial ventures, does anyone suspect maybe there is about to be a shareholder shakeup of upper-level management? It would appear to me that Microsoft has gotten far too rigid, top-heavy, and doesn't provide autonomy at the development level anymore. Anyone else get the same idea based on the staff that are leaving?
    • Re:About time (Score:5, Insightful)

      by jtwJGuevara ( 749094 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2005 @10:24AM (#13816994)
      I don't forsee current shareholders giving a flying hoot about individuals leaving as long as the bottom line numbers remain prosperous... and you know as well as I that with all the successful product lines and forced upgrades, the bottom line isn't going to turn south anytime in the interim future.

      In fact, MS shareholders should be happier than ever since they just recently received a whopping dividend payment.

      Of course, as an individual investor, I wouldn't buy Microsoft for a long term investment for the very reasons you stated. Its potential for growth isn't attractive any longer either.
      • Re:About time (Score:5, Informative)

        by TheWanderingHermit ( 513872 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2005 @10:43AM (#13817142)
        In fact, MS shareholders should be happier than ever since they just recently received a whopping dividend payment.

        I don't know about that. I learned investing from my Father, who has literally made several million, just since his retirement. While dividends are nice, there are problems with them. They're taxed when they come out, whereas a rising stock price is only taxed when it is sold. So even if you use a DRIP so you never actually see the dividend, just the new shares it purchases, you still get a yearly tax. Dividends can be a big help if you are retired, or otherwise using dividend income as a primary source of support, but in terms of investing, they are not always as nice as a stock price that constantly goes up -- which is something MS Stock hasn't done much of for a while.

        You're right -- it isn't a good idea for a long term investment, which is about the only kind I make. (I've found turnover can be fun, but after fees and taxes, long term investments generally do better once you see past the next year or two.)
        • Re:About time (Score:5, Insightful)

          by rho ( 6063 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2005 @01:09PM (#13818407) Homepage Journal
          It used to be that dividends were the norm. Then came the awful idea that "if the company doesn't know what to do with its profits, there must be something wrong with them". This was the idea that fueled stock options and an incessant drumbeat to keep those quarterly reports positive and upbeat.

          When a company pays out profits to shareholders, then the stock is acting in a "classical" stock sense. The company is then working for its shareholders. When a company doesn't pay dividends, and the whole value of the company to the shareholder is whether the stock will rise in value, then you get into dangerous territory where stock manipulation is a key skill, rather than business acumen and "knowing thy customer".

          As for taxing dividends, IIRC, the nasty Republicans want to cut the dividends tax to zero. That encourages companies to offer dividends. That encourages investors to look at companies that pay dividends. All of the above encourages business practices that are less stock market oriented and more investor oriented. That is, it's a Good Thing. Now you're investing in a company because it produces a product that sells well, instead of investing in a company because you think you can fool somebody else into buying from you at a higher price.

          There's room for the latter in a modern market, but the former is much less fraught with criminal or unethical doings.

          • I believe that J.P. Morgan was of the belief that the only information a company owed to its stockholders was the dividend it could afford to pay. If the investors were not happy with the divend they could either a.) convince enough shareholders of the fact and elect new Directors, or b.) sell the stock.

            There are obvious problems with this model, but the kind of shenanigans Enron engaged in would have been neatly killed if they were required to provide a dividend. Cash leaving the company is a lot harder t

      • The more I think about it, the more I wonder. While I stick by my other response, I think many people buying MS stock are doing so (or did so) on advice from a broker or because it was "the thing" to do. While it is not true in every case, in many cases, you're talking about sheep following a trend. There are probably a good number of stock holders who aren't thinking long term. I'm sure many bailed when it stopped going up. Now there are those who will see only the dividend and focus just on that -- n
      • Re:About time (Score:3, Interesting)

        by hoggoth ( 414195 )
        > MS shareholders should be happier than ever since they just recently received a whopping dividend payment.

        As an MS shareholder, I can assure you the whopping dividend was no big deal. I got a check and at the same time my MS stock value dropped by the EXACT same amount of my check.
        The market adjusted immediately to the payment and loss of cash from MS's war chest.

        The only difference is I have to pay tax on the dividend. I don't have to pay tax on the stock until I sell it.
      • IIRC Only the Office and Windows divisions are consistently profitable.

        And I don't see that continuing unabated.

        If Microsoft are going to increase their value, they will have to pull something spectacular, like pwning another market. Maybe that's why their going after media.

    • Re:About time (Score:3, Informative)

      by Deinhard ( 644412 )
      Not likely. Despite the exodus of high-profile indidivuals such as Cunningham, an organization such as Microsoft (or Apple or IBM, &c.) have constant turnover. In some cases it is from disgruntled employees, but in others it is simply a desire to expand one's horizons and move on to different things.

      I suspect that there are more "former Microsoft employees" than there are "current Microsoft employees."
      • Re:About time (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Sheepdot ( 211478 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2005 @10:45AM (#13817157) Journal
        I suspect that there are more "former Microsoft employees" than there are "current Microsoft employees."

        But isn't that the breaking point then?

        Think of it like this. Microsoft has, for two decades now, shown itself as the bright younge upstart. But the truth is they are coming to maturity now. They aren't "cool" anymore. iPods are "cool". Facebook is "cool". Google is "cool". Microsoft is like the youngest uncle at the family renions, too young to know that he's too old to be hanging out with the kids anymore.

        IMHO we're likely to see Ballmer have a heart attack or other adverse health issue during a promotional gig (don't laugh, remember how he required vocal chord surgery after yelling Windows?) and shareholders will ask him to step down for safety concerns. His problem is that he doesn't realize what Microsoft is. IBM didn't realize who it was till Lou Gerstner defined it.
        • by Daniel Dvorkin ( 106857 ) * on Tuesday October 18, 2005 @11:20AM (#13817490) Homepage Journal
          Microsoft is like the youngest uncle at the family renions, too young to know that he's too old to be hanging out with the kids anymore.

          You just made my day with that line. Thanks.
        • I'll agree to your points about Microsoft. Growing up, I had just that sort of an uncle. He has tried to keep up with the "younger generation" and has done an admirable job of up. Now, twenty years on, he's no longer the "cool uncle" but the uncle that we go to for advice.

          I'll also agree to your points about Ballmer. There should be a /. poll "Most Likely to Blow a Gasket During a Presentation." Ballmer would certainly win, hands down.

          However, I don't think that my comment former v. current employees in
          • Yeah, I believe that Microsoft will work its way out of the rut its in. I do think that Ballmer isn't likely to be the one to pull it out of it, though. I mean, this is a guy that is the longest Microsoft employee. He's too afraid when things get worse to try totally new ideas, and understandably so.

            I think it's likely that he may pass off the company to someone that *can* revive it. We'll have to see.
    • by mwvdlee ( 775178 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2005 @10:45AM (#13817160) Homepage
      I wonder; if somebody leaves Microsoft, do they get their soul back?
      • by Anonymous Coward
        Absolutely, souls are held in escrow and are returned as long as the employee has fulfilled at least two full years of employment. Those leaving the company after less than two years receive back a fraction of their soul proportional to the length of time they worked.
        • Is that what the "Silo" storage concept was all about? A way to store souls in escrow? I don't think NTFS has a native soul-storage capability, although there's probably a driver somewhere... I wonder what would happen if the M$ soul-server crashed? Truly a BSOD!
      • you can never get rid of the sulfur stench.
      • I got mine back when I left Verislime, so I'd say yes. How long it takes depends, of course, on what they did for MS.
    • Whenever one of these guys leave MS, there is anouther fresh face right out of school with a masters in something waiting in the wings.
      • MS doesn't have geek appeal like it did in the 80's and 90's. Those masters want to work with Google. If they can't get a good paying job, they might settle for Microsoft.
    • Re:About time (Score:4, Insightful)

      by pete6677 ( 681676 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2005 @10:58AM (#13817273)
      I suspect there hasn't been much autonomy among developers for a long time. Look at how most of Microsoft product are designed. It's clear that the marketing department makes all product decision and engineers just get to figure out how to meet their demands. For example, why does Outlook inform me it is dangerous to display "active content"? What the hell is active content? In my case, it was apparently a font that someone used. Would any technical person use such a stupid, generic, meaningless phrase as "active content"?
  • by the darn ( 624240 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2005 @10:18AM (#13816933) Homepage
    Ballmer vows,"I'm going to f**king KILL the Eclipse Foundation!"
    • by ArsenneLupin ( 766289 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2005 @10:28AM (#13817022)
      ... rise to record valuations!
    • Poor Steve, doing such echausting things like jumping around and screaming like a monkey all the time. :-(

      If he used a UNIX-like system, however, he could at least do parts of his job (or hobby?) with much greater ease - `killall eclipse`, for instance. Granted, that's not the foundation itself, but better for a start than nothing at all!
      • by M1FCJ ( 586251 )
        That won't work. Eclipse is just a wrapper which spawns a number of java processes:

        m1fcj 4180 4114 0 17:14 pts/10 00:00:00 /usr/java/jdk1.4/bin/java -Xmx256M -jar /home/m1fcj/eclipse/./startup.jar -os linux -ws gtk -arch x86 -launcher /home/m1fcj/eclipse/./eclipse -name Eclipse -showsplash 600 -exitdata 1a20000 -vm /usr/java/jdk1.4/bin/java -vmargs -Xmx256M -jar /home/m1fcj/eclipse/./startup.jar

        A "killall eclipse" will only kill the shell. The output above is after my "killall eclipse".

        A good old wa
    • by xtracto ( 837672 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2005 @10:51AM (#13817217) Journal
      Yeah, fortunately, when Ballmer told Ward "just tell me it is not Google!" he could answer calmly "No, it is not Google".

      Now I know why did I saw the BG borg sad [klaki.net]
  • by ianmassey ( 743270 ) * on Tuesday October 18, 2005 @10:18AM (#13816940) Homepage
    lately ought to be "exodus" by bob marley.
  • by MemoryDragon ( 544441 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2005 @10:20AM (#13816951)
    The entrance door of the Eclipse foundation has been smashed with a chair recently...
  • Tool? (Score:1, Insightful)

    by rylin ( 688457 )
    So instead of being a MS tool, he'll be an open-source tool?
    What's the definition of an open-source tool? One who'll always use open-source software, even when there's proprietary software more suited for the job?

    Help me out here!
    • Re:Tool? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Just Some Guy ( 3352 )
      One who'll always use open-source software, even when there's proprietary software more suited for the job?

      I'll bite. Any software that makes my company's existence depend on the whims of an outside party is unsuitable for the job.

      In my opinion, you have it backwards. An MS tool is one who believes Microsoft will always act in their best interest and stakes their financial future on it.

  • by Anonymous Coward
    Microsoft couldn't care less, they just released the first beta of VirtualMikeMilinkovich.
  • ..... Throw any chairs when he announced his departure?
  • Ballmer to blame? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by tjstork ( 137384 ) <todd...bandrowsky@@@gmail...com> on Tuesday October 18, 2005 @10:22AM (#13816977) Homepage Journal
    One wonders how many Microsoft developers are bailing because they are sick of the increasing lack of creative room under Herr Ballmer.
    • How would you like to be a high end technical person and know that there will always be the self-appointed 'Chief Architect Gates' to judge your work. No wonder the brain drain at M$ is accelerating.

      • I think you'll find brain drain happening from a lot of large corporations as time progresses. Cuz when it comes down to it, money is important, really important, but only if you make it so.

        People will find ways to do what makes them happy [being creative] and enough money to sustain a life style.

        Of course the best part of smaller businesses starting up is that the suits lose their jobs. Those useless pricks!

        Tom
        • Of course the best part of smaller businesses starting up is that the suits lose their jobs. Those useless pricks!

          A few months back I left Honeywell Aerospace. They have a new President who is a financial guy with utter disdain for engineers. What started as a 10% performance based pruning has accelerated to over 40% attrition in 1 year! All the while Honeywell is transfering 20000 jobs to India. Forget that there is no one left to train here them! All of this while profits were at a record level. This

          • by TheRaven64 ( 641858 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2005 @11:51AM (#13817772) Journal
            I'm surprised it isn't common practice to defer management bonuses by around five years, and base them on the stock price at the time they are paid. This would encourage CEOs to ensure that the company was around and profitable five years after they quit, and not reward people who come in, run a company into the ground, and cash out.
            • That is common practice, in the form of stock options. Some companies don't do that, though, because if the CEO does well they can make a killing - and the investors think they are paying him too much.

              Kind of silly, really - I believe in paying people a portion of what they make for the company. Align their interests with mine, and hope they get rich! The common critism is that engineers have no effect on sales, for example, and will get discouraged if sales cannot convert their work into cash. My answe
            • You obviously don't know how the good ol' boy networks operate.
          • Wow. What product line did you work in? We had some attrition, but nowhere near 40%. Although, this week alone, we lost 4 of our best people in Bangalore. Attrition is definitely much higher over there because of all the happy giddy dotcom jobhopping over there.
            • APEX. The 40% might be low for my old work site. It is probably near 80% by now. Last spring a hatchet man (P.E.) for the new leadership came in and shut the place down, reneged on 3 nice turboprop and jet contracts, and flushed a nice product line down the toilet. I hear he is running the 787 program now. It'll be interesting if he can perform. I doubt it.

              • Yeah, I heard that project was pretty FUBAR. We ended up picking up some APEX people onto our team, then they were laid off, collected severence, and started in another team on our site the very next Monday. So basically they all got a paid week off for free. Dumbass management.
    • because they are sick of the increasing lack of creative room under Herr Ballmer.

      They aren't obliged to squat under his chair, you know. There's much more room elsewhere in the office. But then, of course, you can't be hit by the chair you're sitting under...

    • Not many, if they want to eat. It's only the management types that can actually fine paying jobs in OSS.
  • by Rhoon ( 785258 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2005 @10:23AM (#13816982) Homepage
    How does Eclipse really effect MS' sales for Visual Studio? If I'm developing in Java, I'm going to use Eclipse of course, but I wouldn't buy V.S. for Java development... there's no support. I'd use a Borland or a Sun product to do that.

    And conversely, why would I use Eclipse for developing in a MS created Programming language (apart from the price break). IF I (or my company) have/has the cash to purchase V.S. and we're developing in C#, MFC, Visual C++ for a Windows program, then I will buy Visual Studio. I don't see how Eclipse is a direct competitor to MS at this point in time, they're hardly in the same market.
    • The summary states Microsoft has lost a unique asset, not sales of some generic product.
    • Have you tried IntelliJ IDEA? It is very good for Java programming, IMO better than Eclipse.
    • Recent development on Windows using anything other than Visual Studio was always hit and miss.

      VS was a nice environment to code in and was what the kiddies and college students all used. There was no real programs using java on the desktop.

      Now, a couple of things happened, MS released .net and fucked up visual studio, and Java started to become l33t.
      We see more diverse programs recently written in numerous languages and runtimes (BT clients in java and python, .net this and that, more java here and there).
    • by anomalous cohort ( 704239 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2005 @10:47AM (#13817177) Homepage Journal
      How does Eclipse really effect MS' sales for Visual Studio?

      I think that this post if a little off topic but I will reply anyway. One of the criteria for deciding what application stack to build from for decision makers in technology companies is the developer experience. The harder it is for developers to build in a particular application stack, the longer it will take or the more resources it will take to develop what is needed. When deciding between two application stacks of similar merit and assuming that either the existing staff is familiar with both or that there is no existing staff, the tie breaker just might be the tool.

      I have been in ISVs in both camps. I can tell you from first hand experience that the J2EE stack is just as feature rich and architecturaly sound as the ASP.NET stack (though the actual details are profoundly different). For any company honestly considering which way to go, the choice boils down to VS.NET versus Eclipse (or Netbeans or IntelliJ, insert your favorite J2EE friendly IDE here).

    • by Mechanik ( 104328 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2005 @11:24AM (#13817524) Homepage
      As a committer on the CDT [eclipse.org] Eclipse project, I can say right now that if you are doing doing win32 or MFC development, right now you'd be crazy to not use Visual Studio over Eclipse, unless you're willing to help work on the IDE support yourself.

      Right now work is beginning in the CDT community on a prototypical debugger that uses the dbghelp APIs of Microsoft's free windows debugger (WinDbg). Work is also ongoing in the community on support for the Visual C++ compiler under CDT's Managed Build System. What's really needed right now is people to help out on these efforts, and someone to step up and make a windows resource editor (a la Eclipse's Visual Editor Project). We would love for CDT to be a serious (and free!) competitor to Visual Studio that required only the free debugger, compiler, and platform SDK downloads from Microsoft that are currently available... help us make it happen.

    • I don't see how Eclipse is a direct competitor to MS at this point in time, they're hardly in the same market.

      Partly correct. However, .NET is a direct competitor to Java/J2EE, and Eclipse (and other IDEs) are rapidly adding support for other languages and architectures, among them C# and .NET.

      The most interesting thing to me, though, is that VS.NET is so powerless and hard to use. I used to think VS was pretty technologically advanced back in the day, albeit bad in other ways. Both IntelliJ Idea and Eclips

    • by daem0n1x ( 748565 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2005 @12:20PM (#13818022)
      I had the misfortune of becoming a ASP VB developer during a year. I hated it with all my guts, but I had to pay my bills.
      My employer was too cheap to move on to .NET, so we had to work with that old ASP shit using legacy VS6 that somebody had bought ages ago. We did the classical stuff, editing ASPs in VB and T-SQL stored procs.
      Later, I found out, to my surprise, that Eclipse was better for ASP and T-SQL development than the very M$ tools in VS6 and SQL-Server. Some weeks later, I was using Eclipse for everything, ASP, T-SQL, PHP, XML, etc., integrating with M$ Visual Source Safe, and all. I had an Eclipse instance running since the very first minute I sat in my office chair every morning. My M$ drone colleagues used to look at me as if I was a freak, or something. But I was more productive than them.
      Installing the right plugins, Eclipse can be the IDE for any kind of development you imagine.
    • Ah, but if you have the choice of developing in Java with Eclipse or C++ in Visual Studio, all other things being equal, the former is the more attractive option. And that means your code can run anywhere. And that means your users don't have to own Windows to run your software.

      So even if Eclipse isn't a direct competitor to Visual Studio, it can make a dent in the Empire.
    • Mindshare and demand settings

      If hacker jon 19 years old out of highschool wants to hack code do you think he is going to chose VS.net or something free? Well more than likely he will pirate it ... but the point is accessibility and low cost will get more people using it since pirating is a pain and you never know what you are going to get.

      Also if you oversupply a market you will bring down demand. If there were no ide's at all out there you would probably be more willing to pay more for an ide. ALso which
  • by digitaldc ( 879047 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2005 @10:31AM (#13817048)
    From:
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20051017/tc_nf/38691; _ylt=Amqnvtqy9Q9fJYcw8Yn1dq4jtBAF;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJ vMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--

    "In the next decade, there'll be a shortage of great software engineers. We'll be scouring the schools for them," Gates told the students at Madison. "Software is the place where all the action is. It is an area that will continue to generate jobs. This is the golden age of software."

    Another interesting quote that sounds like the 640k one:

    He (Gates) predicted that the HD DVD will be "the last physical media format there will ever be." To help make that happen, Gates said he will need a lot more software engineers.

    Oh boy, I hope that doesn't come back to haunt him.
    • "It is an area that will continue to generate jobs." ...In India.

      "the last physical media format there will ever be."
      Because, as we all know, in the future, media will just float around magically on the internet, including back-ups.

      • Because, as we all know, in the future, media will just float around magically on the internet, including back-ups.

        The Internet is now like the mercury-delay line memory was, many moons ago...

        Wanna save something for Eternity? Just dump it on the Internet; somebody will mirror it and preserve it forever...

        (Delay line memory was a tank of mercury with a speaker at one end, and a microphone at the other. Bits were stored as sound impulses travelling in the tank. Just like dynamic memory, it had to be

      • I think he means the codecs will improve, while being stored on the same physical media.
    • He (Gates) predicted that the HD DVD will be "the last physical media format there will ever be."

      He could be right. First there will be High Definition. Then there will be Hyper Definition. Then there will be High-hyper Definition. Then there will be Hyper-high-hyper Definition. Then there will be Hugely-hyper-high-hyper Definition and Honkin'-hugely-hyper-high-hyper Definition. The superlatives are never-ending.

      (What would be the radio-frequency designation for gamma rays?)
      • Way to miss the point. He was saying that the next generation video format will not be distributed on a physical disk, it will be downloaded. The next generation optical disk will be for backup more than for distribution. Who would go to the shop to buy an ultra=high-def movie when they could just download it onto a computer / set-top box? It takes around 10 years to create a new video format, from introduction to widespread adoption, and in ten years everyone will have some kind of high-speed connectio
      • (What would be the radio-frequency designation for gamma rays?)
        M-M-M-M-M-Monster Hertz!
    • Another interesting quote that sounds like the 640k one:

      He (Gates) predicted that the HD DVD will be "the last physical media format there will ever be." To help make that happen, Gates said he will need a lot more software engineers.


      Oh boy, I hope that doesn't come back to haunt him.

      Damn, I'm so hopeful he's right on that. Already now I use DVD/CD only to transport data somewhere where only slower internet access is available. Everywhere else I just use my home machine.

      I know there's big portion

    • Another interesting quote that sounds like the 640k one:

      He (Gates) predicted that the HD DVD will be "the last physical media format there will ever be." To help make that happen, Gates said he will need a lot more software engineers.


      You know, I'm not sure that's the same attitude he's looking at HD DVD with. I don't think that he believes that [n] GB (or TB, or EB, etc) will be enough at any point in time. I think that he wants physical media dead. There is too much liability (i.e. too much freedo
    • "In the next decade, there'll be a shortage of great software engineers."

      A shortage of great software engineers, or a shortage of great software engineers that want to work for Microsoft?

    • Well, that quote is kind of hard to pinpoint the exact intent...

      Did he mean that it would be the last "physical" storage technology...meaning that everything would be stored on the network somewhere? Not likely...companies wouldn't allow it...and it would have to be "stored" somewhere...unless he thinks we will start using our brains for storage or something...

      Did he mean it would be the last magnetic/optical storage technology??? Maybe...that would of course mean that harddrives would still be around...t
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Doodley~ doodley~ doodley~ dooo~ Blip!
  • "Cunningham's new title is Director of Committer Community Development"

    What kind of obscure title is that? Why can't they call him Director of Marketing?

    FTA: "Ward will lead the effort to create a more cohesive Eclipse committer community by working with developers in order to enhance Eclipse as 'the place to be.'"

    Sounds like Marketing Director to me.
  • by guruevi ( 827432 )
    ...for flying chairs in Redmond.
  • by Ed Burnette ( 691293 ) * on Tuesday October 18, 2005 @10:48AM (#13817192) Homepage

    This news was first posted on EclipseZone [eclipsezone.com]. There, you can find an article announcing the move [eclipsezone.com] that goes into a little more detail about what Ward will be doing at Eclipse. Please add this article link to your main post.

  • Oh dear! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by oneandoneis2 ( 777721 ) * on Tuesday October 18, 2005 @10:56AM (#13817261) Homepage
    How are Microsoft going to be able to tell people "There's no money in Open Source" if their best & brightest keep getting lured away by companies based on it? :o)
  • by Eric Damron ( 553630 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2005 @11:10AM (#13817395)
    ...and Balmer vows to kill Eclipse and its little dog toto too.

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