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Internet Hunting 892

cybergrunt69 writes "An enterprising Texan, John Underwood currently has a website that lets you target-practice online with a .22 caliber rifle, but will soon start offering "hunting" abilities. He recently built a platform for about $10,000USD to house this new system on his 300 acre properly, but the Parks and Wildlife department is now scrambling to find ways to try and stop him. While this may sound like cheating to some people, this may be a large benefit to hunters with disabilities."
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Internet Hunting

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  • by Erect Horsecock ( 655858 ) on Wednesday November 17, 2004 @11:26PM (#10850292) Homepage Journal
    While the concept (firing a weapon from your home computer) is interesting, I think it removes some of the challenge and "sportsmanship" of hunting. Hunting is already lopsided in favor of humans anyway (Scents designed to draw the animal closer, clothing to mask or remove human odors, calls, etc) the idea of making it almost effortless is disturbing. If you want to kill an animal do it with your own hands on a weapon, not on a mouse button.

    Oh and as far as disabled hunters go Here [gapingmaw.com] is a rather general article about disabled hunters and the "sport" they love.
    • yep. My great grandfather hunted his own food with a BOW AND ARROW well into his 60's because "guns didn't give the animal a chance." Oddly enough, this was in the California desert.
    • by kaiser423 ( 828989 ) on Wednesday November 17, 2004 @11:34PM (#10850356)
      Matters what animal you hunt, and with what. With just about any weapon (exceot the mouse button), there is stalking and tracking required. You can hike around for a week in elk country and hardly see a single one if you don't know what you're doing. Personally, I like bow hunting just because of the sportsmanship. Gun hunting is a lot easier, but with certain animals it's still hard.
      • by arivanov ( 12034 ) on Thursday November 18, 2004 @07:37AM (#10852432) Homepage
        If you hunt just because of the sportsmanship, have you ever considered trying to hunt with a camera? Getting a clean professional quality shot of a deer is thousands times more difficult compared to shooting it. A rifle will shoot through branches and leaves. A camera does not.

        Take a camera next time and see what a lame shot you actually are.
        • Getting a clean professional quality shot of a deer is thousands times more difficult compared to shooting it. A rifle will shoot through branches and leaves. A camera does not.

          Wait just a minute! If you don't have a good view of the target (deer/sheep/tin can/whatever) then you have ABSOLUTELY NO BUSINESS TAKING THE SHOT!

          That's how hunting accidents happen.

          If I can't clearly see it, it ain't getting shot at. Otherwise I could shoot cousin Earl or some dumbass wandering around in our woods. Also, i

    • Hunting is already lopsided in favor of humans anyway
      Eh, so? How often does the worm get to eat the bird instead of the other way round?
      • "Hunting is already lopsided in favor of humans anyway"

        Oh yea? When the worlds largest militia hits the woods in PA for deer season they've been playing cards, telling dirty jokes and drinking like it's the last drink forever till 3:00am. Then they get up at 5:00am and hit the woods in 20deg cold hanging from a tree.

        Deer are safe in most the hunting camps I've been at:-) Your beer isn't.
      • by Concerned Onlooker ( 473481 ) on Thursday November 18, 2004 @02:25AM (#10851386) Homepage Journal
        In the end the worm always eats the bird.
    • by mordors9 ( 665662 ) on Thursday November 18, 2004 @12:10AM (#10850654)
      This is another side effect of the PC movement. For some reason the differently challenged can not be told there are some things they can not do. I read an article earlier in the year where some of their advocacy groups were suing the Federal government to provide access to more wilderness areas. Now I'm sorry but as soon as you pave a roadway for access, the wilderness is gone. Now the idea that they should be able to hunt without having to leave their home is just going to far yet again. Hopefully the State can put a stop to this before it gets started.
      • I don't understand why people are against this. They guy is/will_be running a business on his own land, with his own equipment, killing commonly hunted species (iirc the non-native Axis deer [ttu.edu] is a very common game animal there, and they tend to become a problem if not hunted (most of the large preditors, mountain lions or whatever, have already been killed off)).

        I personally don't like to hunt, but I don't see why we should prohibit others from doing it, even in novel ways. As long as the hunters aren't c
    • by Bowling Moses ( 591924 ) on Thursday November 18, 2004 @04:11AM (#10851773) Journal
      It depends on who, where, and what you're after if you consider if hunting is lopsided towards humans or not. We have bag limits and tags on anything worth eating, hunting seasons, and limitations on what you can use. Sure now we've got camoflage and scents and calls, but they aren't all that great and require skill to use. For whatever dumbass reason many hunters prefer the much less effective camo that has leaves and berries and crap printed on it than stuff that actually works. Scents? Helps for hunting some species but then at least in Oregon you can't use them for black bear unless you apply it to your own clothing! Then there's the decline in hunter skill and experience. I'm a total novice and manage to get out only maybe every other weekend at best during hunting season, but lots of people don't even do that.

      Finally, some hunts are just brutal. Two years ago, my roomate lucked out and after four years unsuccessfully going after bull elk in Oregon, he got an antlerless elk tag. Elk are amazing animals, can weigh well over a half ton but take two steps into heavy brush and be gone without a trace or hardly a sound. Anyway, he spent five days in Oregon's coast range before he shot a ~900 pound cow elk. So that's December in a rain forest in Oregon. Lows below freezing, highs around 50, near-constant rain so hard that if you want a shower just stick a bar of soap on your head and stand outside for five minutes. The day he got her there were 100 mph wind gusts recorded at Bandon, just to the south. He didn't use any calls or scents, but that day got within 50 feet of her wearing a bright yellow rainsuit. Someone always visits him at elk camp to make sure he's alright, and that year it was me. He had somehow gutted, skinned, quartered, and hung her by himself and carried out about 2/3 of the meat over two miles of steep, abandoned logging roads to his truck on the "main" logging road by the time I finally found him around dusk. The next day we drove back and got the remainder and I found out what it was like to carry an elk quarter on my back for a couple miles. Or at least a big chunk of it, anyway. I had about 80 pounds of elk leg on my back, and whenever I leaned over I'd "accidentally" bonk him in the head with her hoof, which stuck out over my head by about a foot and a half. From just two trips I got some of the worst muscle pulls I've ever had, I can't imagine doing it for over a day like he did. Elk hunters are full-bore batshit insane. Tasty animal, though. Beef sucks.

      But this so-called hunting from the safety and comfort of your own computer is just plain wrong, I agree.
    • We should take this idea to Iraq, and mount it on some sort of mobile platform. I'll pay $1,000 an hour, to shoot at insurgents from the comfort of my own home!
  • it'd beat the crap out of those stupid webgames I see everyone play at work. Or the low capatability NESCafe
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 17, 2004 @11:27PM (#10850297)
    In the days of true hunting, hunters with disabilities became the prey.
  • I dunno (Score:3, Interesting)

    by copperheadclgp ( 815709 ) on Wednesday November 17, 2004 @11:28PM (#10850309)
    I guess I can understand the thinking... but I'm not sure I agree with it.

    Now what would be really cool is if you did this at a paintball range and had these things in trees firing at players (with paint of course.

    • Re:I dunno (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Glendale2x ( 210533 )
      Now what would be really cool is if you did this at a paintball range and had these things in trees firing at players (with paint of course.

      While we're at it, how about a random paintball-webcam just set up somewhere? People come online, see someone walk by on the cam, and fire the paintball gun at whatever poor soul happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or make a game of it: people try to run across a range of these things to win a t-shirt.
  • What's the point? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Epistax ( 544591 ) <epistax&gmail,com> on Wednesday November 17, 2004 @11:29PM (#10850312) Journal
    I thought the entire excuse for hunting was for tradition and the sportsmanship. This completely removes both. This is purely idiotic.
    • Re:What's the point? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by dasunt ( 249686 )

      I thought the entire excuse for hunting was for tradition and the sportsmanship. This completely removes both. This is purely idiotic.

      Is it?

      In our society, animals are considered materials for our use, as we see fit, with a few rare exceptions[1].

      In the US, most hunters are those who hunt for entertainment.

      Free market forces seem to indicate that there is a large enough group of people who consider this entertainment enough to exchange money for the privledge. While you or I may not consider it

      • by YU Nicks NE Way ( 129084 ) on Thursday November 18, 2004 @12:46AM (#10850849)
        The only difference that I see is that the wild animal has a much nicer life then the caged turkey up until the moment of death.
        That's actually rather implausible. The wild animal is likely to suffer from parasitic infections in its vital organs, which would cause chronic discomfort. It is likely to die slowly and painfully of the complications caused by an infection if it isn't lucky enough to be torn apart bit by bit -- while still alive, mind you -- by a predator.

        As is the case with humans, wild animals are capable of surviving the extremes of their nominal climates with only available shelter, but exhibit stress responses characteristic of discomfort when placed outside of a small band of temperatures and humidities. Domesticated food animals do not exhibit those stress responses when raised under nominal feedlot conditions. Domestic turkeys, for instance, do not secrete stress hormones when crowded. (Why do we know that? Those hormones slow growth, so agribusiness types have measured exactly the point at which they start showing up in the animals' brains. Farmers under contract to the businesses follow the buidelines they set down.)

        Bottom line: well, surprising as it may sound, no, you're wrong. There are a great many good reasons to be vegan, or at least purely vegetarian, but the welfare of animals doesn't actually qualify.
    • by Ungrounded Lightning ( 62228 ) on Thursday November 18, 2004 @12:44AM (#10850835) Journal
      I thought the entire excuse for hunting was for tradition and the sportsmanship.

      No.

      That's what city people who never actually hunted think.

      Hunting is NOT a game.

      Hunting is about skill, and patience, and responsibility, and consequences.

      Hunting is about handling deadly tools safely.

      Hunting is about working alone, or in a group, to achieve a difficult goal.

      Hunting is about coming to a personal understanding that you, and your family, are also animals, that every day you live because something else - plant or animal - died to feed you.

      Hunting is about the lengths you will go to keep your family fed and healthy.

      Hunting is about knowing, deep in your gut, that the animal you hunt will hurt and die. And hunting (for humans) is about honoring that animal, by making its death for your benefit as fast and painless as possible, an easier death than it would suffer from the teeth and claws of some other peredator, from disease, from accident, or from starvation.

      Hunting is about understanding your place in nature:

      You are a predator.

      You are at the top of the food chain

      You are SO effective at what you do that you MUST be careful, lest you wipe out those things you depend on for your own life.
      • by adamdeprince ( 600460 ) on Thursday November 18, 2004 @01:17AM (#10851067)
        Then why does every good hunting story start with "after the first six pack?"
      • Tetris is NOT a game.

        Tetris is about skill, and patience, and responsibility, and consequences.

        Tetris is about handling blocks safely.

        Tetris is about working alone, or in a group, to achieve a difficult goal. (arguably it doesn't help working in a group)

        Tetris is about coming to a personal understanding that you, and your family, are also blockheads.

        Tetris is about the lengths you will go to keep your blocks stacked and disappearing.

        Tetris is about knowing, deep in your gut, that the blocks you drop w
      • Re:What's the point? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by hikerhat ( 678157 ) on Thursday November 18, 2004 @04:51AM (#10851914)
        ...Hunting is ...

        -- snip --

        I grew up in rural Wisconsin in a hunting family, and a hunting town (the place shuts down during deer hunting season). So I know what hunting is.

        What you described was hunting 2 or 3 hundred years ago. If you understood our place in nature _today_ you would know that we can produce enough crops to live entirely on non-animal sources of food.

        Back when it was kill or be killed there was honor in hunting for survival. Today the choice is kill, or hit the produce section of your super market. There's no honor in gratuitous killing.

        You can get all that mystical hunter crap you were talking about on the way to the grocery store anyway - check it:

        • Going to the grocery store is NOT a game. It really isn't any fun at all.
        • Going to the store is about skill, patience, and responsability, and consequences. Cooking skill so you know what to get, patience because the store is always crowded, and you should be responsable and select organic produce.
        • If you drive to the store you have to handle your deadly tool (your car) safely. Be especially careful in the parking lot - there are kids running around. And be double plus careful on icy winter roads.
        • Walking around the produce section is about coming to the understanding that you are an animal that's learned to grow all the food it needs for you and your family. And only plants need to die to feed you, not animals.
        • Going vegetarian is about the lengths you'll go to keep yourself and your family fed while honoring animals with their lives. Sure, it isn't easy at first. You have to learn all new recipes. Your hunting buddies will make fun of you. You have to question some of the core beliefs you were raised on. But remember, you're going to great lengths here.
        • Going vegetarian is about knowing, deep in your gut, that you can live without killing animals. It is about honoring animals not by killing them but by not killing them. Sure, they may be killed more painfully by a predator than by your gun (ignoring the tremendous number of animals that are only wounded by the hunter, that limp off and slowly and painfully die. You guys ain't all dead eye shots you know.) But that _is_ a kill or be killed kind of situation, and there _is_ honor in that. Not that animals really care much about honor.
        • Eating fruits and vegetables is about understanding your place in nature in 2004. You don't need to be a predator anymore. You can choose which part of the food chain you want to be connected to.
        • You are SO effective at growing food that you don't need to eat animals anymore.
        I agree with you that hunting isn't about "tradition" and "sportsmanship". But that isn't what "city people" think hunting is about. That's the standard propaganda that the NRA and outdoor sports magazines try and feed to "city people" to make them think hunting is about "tradition" and "sportsmanship". They even call hunters "sportsmen".
      • by Bastian ( 66383 ) on Thursday November 18, 2004 @08:28AM (#10852730)
        Hunting is about skill, and patience, and responsibility, and consequences.

        Hunting is about handling deadly tools safely.


        Would someone please explain that to all the hunters we caught rifle hunting within a couple hundred yards of my house when I was a kid, despite fine mist of NO HUNTING signs that we sprayed across our property?

        Or the guy who set up the salt lick on our property?

        I'd especially like to have that explained to the guy who came out of the forest (and into our backyard) screaming some gibberish about how dangerous it is to be outside (in my backyard, playing on a swingset) during deer season, all because he had seen some movement and had the gun lined up and ready to fire, his finger only checked because he heard me say something?

        There are a lot of guys who romanticize hunting. Which is great, there is truth to the "hunting shows you your place in nature" story. But in my experience, you guys are totally outnumbered. For most folks, hunting seems to simply be about finding things and shooting them. Any food you might get is just a bonus.

        That's the only way I can understand why we had so many encounters with hunters firing rifles more or less in our backyard when I was a kid, or when we had so many problems with hunters hunting on my school's wildlife preserve when I was in college, or why I am seeing this story about a remote-control rifle that you can control from the Internet right now.
    • by swillden ( 191260 ) * <shawn-ds@willden.org> on Thursday November 18, 2004 @01:19AM (#10851078) Homepage Journal

      I thought the entire excuse for hunting was for tradition and the sportsmanship.

      Different people have different reasons, but some of the common ones are:

      • The joy of being outdoors and close to nature. Hunting gets you closer to and more involved with nature than just about any activity other than maybe wildlife research.
      • The adrenaline rush of the stalk.
      • The pleasure of eating the game.
      • Camaraderie with other hunters (often family).

      The main reason I enjoy hunting is that it motivates me to get closer to nature than I ever do otherwise. That's a really odd fact, one I don't understand. I'm not necessarily anxious to kill anything, though I like the meat, and the thrill of the stalk is fantastic (I most often hunt with a bow). What I enjoy most is being out there. So why don't I go out there just to go, rather than to hunt?

      I do, actually. I like to hike and camp, and I spend lots of time in the mountains just because I enjoy being there. I take hikes involving one or two thousand feet of elevation gain and three or four miles horizontal distance. I take lots of pictures and occasionally "stalk" with my camera.

      But when I'm hunting it's not unusual to climb three thousand feet or more and hike 5-10 miles in the morning and then do the same again in the evening. And although I always pay attention to my surroundings (that being the point of going there), I pay much *more* attention when hunting, and I therefore get a lot more out of it. For example, when hunting I can often smell the animals and even identify them by their scent. When I'm just hiking I don't seem to notice their scents at all. Hunting motivates me to do things like dressing from head to toe in camouflage and then sitting completely motionless for hours, until the animals have completely forgotten I'm not just an oddly-shaped bush. A fawn bounced into me and knocked me off the log I was sitting on, once.

      I enjoy hunting because I like the cool experiences I have as a result of doing somewhat extreme things to get very close to nature. I could do *exactly* the same things without spending $60 on a hunting license, plus more than I want to think about on all of the gear, but I don't, and when I try it's not the same.

      Anyway, the point of this wildly off-topic rumination is to say:

      Shooting animals via remote control over the Internet isn't "hunting" for people who for whatever reason can't do it in person. It's just a weird, hi-tech way of slaughtering animals. Killing is actually the smallest and least important part of sport hunting.

      • by Dusabre ( 176445 ) on Thursday November 18, 2004 @04:01AM (#10851741) Homepage
        You know what - all the pleasures you have described can be felt by going for a bicycle ride through the countryside, snowboarding or if you really feel like spend thousands of bucks on equipment AND want to stalk something, by playing paintball.

        Admit it, you like to kill.
      • Re:What's the point? (Score:3, Interesting)

        by dcw3 ( 649211 )
        Though I no longer hunt, I find myself in complete agreement with the parent. My dad took us deer hunting when I was a teen. We went four years in a row, and even though the only deer I saw were on the roofs of other folks vehicles, we had a great time. It was a fantastic bonding experience. One of the best classes I've ever had was the Michigan DNR hunter safety school...it was required for minors (and should have been for adults too).
  • Guilty or not (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ThinkPad760 ( 794676 ) on Wednesday November 17, 2004 @11:29PM (#10850315)
    So if you kill someone while on-line are you guilty? And how are they going to get you if you're in some far off country. This is a dangerous idea that could (most likely will) get way out of hand.
  • Lag? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by sp00 ( 639381 )
    Underwood, 39, said he will offer animal hunting as soon as he gets a fast Internet connection to his remote ranch that will enable hunters to aim the rifle quickly at passing animals. I can imagine it now... accounting for tirgger lag when you're hunting online. This would probably just plain suck on 56K.
    • Underwood, an estimator for a San Antonio, Texas auto body shop, has invested $10,000 to build a platform for a rifle and camera that can be remotely aimed on his 330-acre (133-hectare) southwest Texas ranch by anyone on the Internet anywhere in the world.

    First robots with shotguns, now cyberednecks!

  • Abuse? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dshaw858 ( 828072 ) on Wednesday November 17, 2004 @11:30PM (#10850330) Homepage Journal
    The first thing that I thought when I read this was that 8 year old kids are going to use their parents credit cards and kill hundreds of deer just like a video game. This has the potential to run unchecked, due to the anonymity of the internet... I don't like it.

    -dshaw
  • by Kotukunui ( 410332 ) on Wednesday November 17, 2004 @11:31PM (#10850339)
    An attendant will pick up the shot animals!!!

    WTF?
    Who wants that job?

    At the golf driving range we all target the ball-retriever machines/attendants when they go to get the balls... and , hey this is Texas we are talking about!
  • by Xpilot ( 117961 ) on Wednesday November 17, 2004 @11:31PM (#10850341) Homepage
    Shoot the rabbit and WIN AN IPOD!!!

  • by MukiMuki ( 692124 ) on Wednesday November 17, 2004 @11:32PM (#10850343)
    What we NEED is a robot on a Segway (for terrain adaptation and minimal field footprint) that's noise-dampened, carrying a shotgun, with a sensor that won't allow it to shoot outside a given radius.

    Why all this, you ask? So we can CIRCLE STRAFE those freaking animals over the internet~!

    (Deer proceeds to knock over robot mid-hunt, rendering it useless)
    Walkie Talkie Voice : ::Shht:: Counterhunters Win.
  • Lag? (Score:3, Funny)

    by sp00 ( 639381 ) on Wednesday November 17, 2004 @11:32PM (#10850344)
    Underwood, 39, said he will offer animal hunting as soon as he gets a fast Internet connection to his remote ranch that will enable hunters to aim the rifle quickly at passing animals.
    I can imagine it now... accounting for tirgger lag when you're hunting online. This would probably just plain suck on 56K.
  • Uh oh (Score:3, Funny)

    by suwain_2 ( 260792 ) on Wednesday November 17, 2004 @11:33PM (#10850351) Journal
    We've Slashdotted even the strangest of hardware, but I think a gun will be a new challenge for us.
  • by dj42 ( 765300 ) on Wednesday November 17, 2004 @11:34PM (#10850353) Journal
    I'd like to see one of these in the food court of a mall, with a zoom feature and tanquilizer darts. I'd pay well over $20 if they mailed me a DVD compiling the video of me aiming, zooming, firing, and the associated reactions.
  • Great Idea (Score:2, Insightful)

    This sounds like a pretty good idea, But what is the difference between hunting real deer and fake deer at this point?

    Unless you are actually going to use what you shoot for a purpose, it has no real value to me. I think this is a great idea though, Next thing we can do is put these things in Iraq and shoot enemies this way...Oh wait, that would be to complicated for the governement to handle, we will just stick with deer.
  • A Link (Score:5, Informative)

    by suwain_2 ( 260792 ) on Wednesday November 17, 2004 @11:35PM (#10850366) Journal
    Yahoo has the story, [yahoo.com] too. They include a link to the website: live-shot.com [live-shot.com].
  • by Mr. Flibble ( 12943 ) on Wednesday November 17, 2004 @11:37PM (#10850380) Homepage
    So, now people with disabilities can shoot at animals and thereby give them disabilities?
  • by Velox_SwiftFox ( 57902 ) on Wednesday November 17, 2004 @11:39PM (#10850401)
    I'm interested in the possibility of a competition writing programs that would do the hunting for you.

    Think of it - who can do the best open source cybernetic sniper program? Remember those neat antipersonnel guns in Aliens?
  • Linkage (Score:5, Informative)

    by s0l0m0n ( 224000 ) on Wednesday November 17, 2004 @11:40PM (#10850420) Homepage
    Live Shot [live-shot.com]

    Here's a link to the site. This is probably a bad idea, but I want gun toting robots for myself, so who am I to judge.
  • by darnok ( 650458 ) on Wednesday November 17, 2004 @11:48PM (#10850483)
    ...that can only end in tears.

    Possible scenarios that occured to me within first 30 seconds:
    - Internet hunter shoots animal, some human goes out to retrieve it. Oooh, what will the next hunter that gets online fire a shot at?
    - "something goes wrong" and the system becomes unreliable. Who's going to onsite to fix the thing, while it's playing up?
    - it's all a big con, and when you think you're "hunting" you're actually watching a carefully prepared film
    - parachute one of these things into Fallujah, then auction off rights to "The Real Deathmarch 2004, with added reality"

    Anyone care to round out a top 10 list? I would, but I'm at work, about to walk into a meeting and wishing I had one of these with me right about now...
  • by insane66 ( 177522 ) on Wednesday November 17, 2004 @11:50PM (#10850499)
    the website www.live-shot.com

    From the "how it works" page:

    LIVE-SHOT is similar to a trip to the rifle range with one very notable exception. Everything is done through a computer and the internet. A paid membership will allow for access to the range viewing camera(s) at any time.

    interesting...

    looks like when hunting goes live you can hunt
    Aoudad (Barbary Sheep), Blackbuck Antelope, A wide variety of sheep, Wild Hog, and Other antlered species like axis, fallow, and red stag will be available on a limited basis.

  • by syousef ( 465911 ) on Wednesday November 17, 2004 @11:54PM (#10850543) Journal
    It's going to be possible for off site hunting accidents and off site manslaughter.

    How about making it illegal to operate a weapon remotely for anything but military purposes? The further you remove a person from the carnage the more it seems like a game, and the less thought and respect for life you're likely to see.

    There are real consequences to this hunting. Animals die. You wouldn't pilot an aircraft with real people in it by remote control via a flight sim or camera setup.

    Sorry if my thoughts are a little scattered.
  • by caffeinated_bunsen ( 179721 ) on Wednesday November 17, 2004 @11:59PM (#10850582)
    "If you just had a gun for that."

    A more concise summary of the essence of redneckhood may never have been spoken. Truly a quote for the ages.

  • by Ghostgate ( 800445 ) on Thursday November 18, 2004 @12:06AM (#10850629)
    I'm not intending to troll, but I don't get the lure of hunting at all. The animals stand no chance. The hardest part is finding something - after that, if you have reasonable aim, you will surely kill it. I think all hunters should have to fight the animals with hand-to-hand combat. Give the animal a chance to do some damage in return.

    Oh, and hunters should have to always make use of the meat/hides/fur/whatever in some way. I mean if you're going to run around in the woods and pick off mostly defenseless animals with rifles, at least make some use of them, eh? Otherwise it's just a waste.

    With this new system though, you don't even have to go out in the woods and find an animal. You just wait for one to appear on your monitor. And you don't have to have great aim, really... you just click. That's not hunting, it's pointless slaughter.
    • by bshroyer ( 21524 ) <bret@@@bretshroyer...org> on Thursday November 18, 2004 @09:48AM (#10853480)
      I don't get the lure of hunting at all.
      I'll try to respond to this, honestly and respectfully. Bear in mind, I'm only one hunter, so my motivations will not match those of all other hunters.

      My father imparted me with two fundamental hunting ethics:
      1. Give your prey a the opportunity to use his strengths against you
      This means that, when hunting birds, you don't shoot them on the ground, or in the water. If you encounter a stationary game bird, you first flush the bird, and allow it to put some distince between it and you, before you shoot. For big game (deer, for example), choose your weaponry or environment so as to require a very close (20-30 yards) encounter. Deer have unbelievably sharp senses of sight, smell, and hearing. Getting one to approach you to within 20 yards is no easy task. Some big-game hunters proudly display the elk trophy they took with a 350-yard shot -- I wouldn't call that hunting; it's more like a display of marksmanship. If you want to impress me with your skills as a hunter, show me the elk you took with a bow at 25 yards.

      2. Only kill what you intend to eat.
      You can't "catch and release" when you're hunting. If you don't intend on eating it, you've got no reason to kill it.
      People who grow vegetables will tell you that tomatoes, corn, beans, peas -- all taste better when they come from your own garden. In addition, you know that they're organic (if you've chosen to raise them that way.) In the same way, pheasant, duck, and venison taste better to me when I know I've harvested it myself. In addition, I know that this meat is "free range" and organic, as well as lower in fat than anything I can buy at market.

      In your comments, you raise some frequently-heard arguments:
      The animals stand no chance. Neither does the pig, cow, or chicken going to slaughter. Using ethic #1, above, the prey is allowed to use his innate talents against my technology. The majority of the time (in my own hunting experience) the animal wins.

      The hardest part is finding something - after that, if you have reasonable aim, you will surely kill it. This is partially true. It is difficult, and rewarding, to find game animals. I've spent many long, quiet hours remaining motionless in the woods waiting to hear or see a deer. Some of those unsuccessful hunts are memorable to me because of everything else I've seen -- an ermine catching a mouse, a wren landing on my boot, a skunk leading her kits across a field.

      Reasonable aim isn't a guaranteed kill, however. There are species of ducks (scaup) I hunt that fly at nearly 50 miles per hour. This season, I saw perhaps 300 of these ducks, was able to lure enough into range to take a dozen shots, and killed only two.

      I think all hunters should have to fight the animals with hand-to-hand combat. Give the animal a chance to do some damage in return.
      I've often thought about this. I've been close enough to deer on several occasions that I could have jumped out of my tree with a knife in hand to do battle. I'm not sure it's legal in my state to kill a deer with a knife. I'm also not positive that I could have a "cleaner" kill with a kife than with an arrow or bullet to the heart.

      I understand that hunting is not for everyone. I don't deride those who don't enjoy hunting. There's a thrill in hunting, and it's not about killing, death and destruction - it's about personal accomplishment, of self-sufficiency. Sure, I could go to the grocery store and buy a duck -- hunting may cost more, but in the end I get the duck, the memory of the sunrise that morning, and a sense of achievement as well.
  • by NerveGas ( 168686 ) on Thursday November 18, 2004 @12:08AM (#10850639)
    I can see it now. Site gets mentioned on slashdot. Within a half of an hour,all ammo stores are completely spent, with the rifle barrels glowing red-hot and sagging toward the ground. The entire area is covered in a light grey smoke, and police are showing up after receiving reports of automatic weapon fire.

    It gives a whole new meaning to the idea of a slashdotting "melting down" the victim.

    steve
  • .22 Caliber, huh? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Stealth Potato ( 619366 ) on Thursday November 18, 2004 @12:18AM (#10850704)
    From the article:
    he Web site already offers target practice with a .22 caliber rifle and could soon let hunters shoot at deer, antelope and wild pigs.

    Do they realistically expect people to be able to kill a deer with a .22? You'd need to hit it at least half a dozen times and hope it bleeds to death before it runs out of the camera's view.

    ...That is, if you're the kind of person who likes watching deer bleed to death. ;-O

  • by eric76 ( 679787 ) on Thursday November 18, 2004 @12:31AM (#10850775)
    How many of you city fellas ever get a chance to milk a cow? Or a goat?

    Why not an on-line cow/goat milker?

    And an attendant could collect the milk and send it to you?

    Maybe I'd better be quiet. Microsoft might patent the idea and create a Milk The Cow xbox game. Would it be called Grand Milk Cow?
  • Large benefit?! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by YouHaveSnail ( 202852 ) on Thursday November 18, 2004 @01:13AM (#10851034)
    While this may sound like cheating to some people, this may be a large benefit to hunters with disabilities.

    What, exactly, is the large benefit to hunters with disabilities?

    They can now "hunt" without having to deal with the non-ADA-compliant forest? I always thought that being in the forest was half the appeal of hunting in the first place.

    They can once again kill something? I don't regard the thrill of victory as a valid reason for hunting.

    They can once again kill something for food using a robotic weapon and, presumably, getting someone else to drag their prey home and butcher it? Might as well order up a Deluxe Pack from Omaha Steaks.

    Can someone explain what this "large" benefit is?
  • by mcknation ( 217793 ) * <nocarrier@gRASPmail.com minus berry> on Thursday November 18, 2004 @01:14AM (#10851038) Homepage

    I cannot imagine that this will last longer than a week. I know that this guy has a lot of property, and the range of a .22 is about 3/4 of a mile...however.
    I have one question.
    Who other than Lloyds of London could insure this hair brained scheme? The premiums have to be HUGE!
    I would take a .22 shot to the leg on his property in exchange for all of his land ;-0

    /-McK
  • by bigberk ( 547360 ) <bigberk@users.pc9.org> on Thursday November 18, 2004 @01:14AM (#10851045)
    I have no problem with hunting, nor killing animals (mmmm... lamb!) but this guy's idea is just plain idiotic.

    It's not a good idea because it poses a significant, and unusual, risk to human life and on top of that, it is going to remove the level of immediacy that is required to allocate legal responsibility for an action (i.e. shooting a gun) with a person (Joe Sixpack).

    What if someone is out in the range adjusting some equipment, and the thing that was supposed to disconnect the Internet death trigger malfunctioned... I mean, is he planning on using an OS that is authorized for mission critical / life supporting systems? That won't be Windows or Linux, as you probably know.

    The idea is just flawed. We as Engineers go to a lot of trouble to make systems that are safe for humans. This system poses unnecessary and probably significant risk to humans.
  • by Guus.der.Kinderen ( 774520 ) <guus.der.kinderen@NoSPAM.gmail.com> on Thursday November 18, 2004 @02:02AM (#10851288)
    There has been a vivid discussion on this topic at http://www.antionline.com/showthread.php?s=&thread id=263951 [antionline.com] . The thread starter (there) has an interesting point of view on the matter. Choice quote:
    I can see it now. The dumb ass goes to pick up all of the dead animals laying about, after first choosing the "turn rifle off" option. Someone breaks into the site using a couple of bounce points, chooses the "turn rifle on" option and BANG BANG BANG.
    Or even worse, some kids happen to be playing in the field! "I know I shot the kids all dead, but I thought it was a game".....
    Although he gets a little aggravated, he does has a valid point. Should giving people control over a gun (i.o.w: "killing device") over the internet even be considered?
  • Poor Monkey (Score:3, Funny)

    by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Thursday November 18, 2004 @02:16AM (#10851347) Journal
    A month ago I went to that website and played what I thought was another one of those "Whack the Monkey" flash ads. But it turned out to be *sniff* real! I feel horrible. I clobbered the living hell out of that poor darling little monkey before I realized it.
  • by demi ( 17616 ) on Thursday November 18, 2004 @02:47AM (#10851457) Homepage Journal

    But I guess we're taking it seriously.

    Luring, or waiting for, animals to walk in front of a camera so you can shoot them by remote control isn't hunting. It's executing animals for fun, and it shouldn't be any more legal than someone drowning cats to get their jollies off.

  • by LabRat007 ( 765435 ) on Thursday November 18, 2004 @07:18AM (#10852349) Homepage
    nuff said
  • by morie ( 227571 ) on Thursday November 18, 2004 @07:35AM (#10852417) Homepage
    How long before the first redneck misunderstands and shoots at his computer wih a rifle?
  • by thelizman ( 304517 ) <hammerattackNO@SPAMyahoo.com> on Thursday November 18, 2004 @11:03AM (#10854476) Homepage
    Hunting, as a sport, emphasizes aspects which put food on the table for our ancestors. It's not simply about putting a jacketed slug into an animal, its about excercising patience, the stalk, the outdoors, about becoming one with your environment. What passes for hunting nowadays is already a travesty, what with laser range finders and designaters, infrared high power scopes, pheremone enhanced scents, and prerecorded broadcast noises designed to attract rutting deer. We (the hunting community) have lost respect for the animal as a clever prey worthy of our effort, and have turned it into a glorified bloodsport with a billion dollar a year industry convincing us they need their product to get that edge.

    So don't get upset over this moron and his robo-hunter. Its just one more turn.

    (Real hunters use iron sites. Hardcore hunters use a bow and arrow. Real men hunt with giant fucking knifes and sharpened sticks.)

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