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Bitcoin

Russia Considers Accepting Bitcoin For Oil and Gas (bbc.com) 80

Posted by BeauHD from the it-was-only-a-matter-of-time dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from the BBC: Russia is considering accepting Bitcoin as payment for its oil and gas exports, according to a high-ranking lawmaker. Pavel Zavalny says "friendly" countries could be allowed to pay in the crypto-currency or in their local currencies. Earlier this week, Russian President Vladimir Putin said that he wanted "unfriendly" countries to buy its gas with roubles. The move is understood to be aimed at boosting the Russian currency, which has lost over 20% in value this year. Sanctions imposed by the UK, US and the European Union, following the invasion of Ukraine, have put a strain on Russia's rouble and raised its cost of living.

Mr Zavalny, who heads Russia's State Duma committee on energy, said on Thursday that the country has been exploring alternative ways to receive payment for energy exports. He said China and Turkey were among "friendly" countries which were "not involved in the sanctions pressure." "We have been proposing to China for a long time to switch to settlements in national currencies for roubles and yuan," said Mr Zavalny. "With Turkey, it will be lira and roubles." Mr Zavalny added: "You can also trade bitcoins."

Analysts said Russia may benefit from accepting the popular cryptocurrency, despite the risks. "Russia is very quickly feeling the impact of unprecedented sanctions," said David Broadstock, a senior research fellow at the Energy Studies Institute in Singapore. "There is a need to shore up the economy and in many ways, Bitcoin is seen as a high growth asset." However, he noted that the value of Bitcoin has swung by as much as 30% this year. In comparison, the dollar has traded within 5% against the euro. "Clearly accepting Bitcoin, compared with other traditional currencies, introduces considerably more risk in the trade of natural gas," Mr Broadstock said. "Moreover, one of the major 'friendly' trade partners for Russia is China, and cryptocurrency is banned for use in China," he added. "This clearly limits potential for payment using Bitcoin."
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Russia Considers Accepting Bitcoin For Oil and Gas More

Russia Considers Accepting Bitcoin For Oil and Gas

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  • ...to ban once and for all the scam of crypto-currencies.

    • ...to ban once and for all the scam of crypto-currencies.

      If they're a scam, then why are you against Russia getting scammed?

      • They're laundering money to evade sanctions. Russia is a big enough player they can game the markets and avoid the Ponzi schemes. Cryptocurrency consists of two things. Ponzi schemes and money laundering. This is the latter and not the former. Both of them are bad.
        • Exactly that sort of manipulation and interference with trade and markets is just what cryptocurrency is for. People like you are (not you specifically who are best characterized by your persistant hate of BTC but people who are otherwise like you, such as the oppressive regimes in Russia and China) in favor of this when it is bypassing the interference of the other guys but strongly opposed to the idea of anyone bypassing YOUR control structures. Only when both are unable to control the other reliably but

        • Cryptocurrency consists of two things. Ponzi schemes and money laundering. This is the latter and not the former.

          It's way more than just two. You forgot "facilitating ransom payments", "tax evasion", and probably a good amount of good old fashioned fraud.

          However, sending money to Russia to evade sanctions is known, boringly enough, simply as "sanctions evasion". Haven't you ever watched Office Space [imdb.com]? The purpose of laundering money is to make ill-gotten funds appear to have been legitimately obtained. That way when the feds come knocking at your door, you can tell them "I earned this money selling links to dumb mo

        • Oh the hypocrisy , you can guarantee every major company is seeking to find all the 'loop holes' around the sanctions - What do you expect when you a driven by a motive of your only duty is to shareholders 'profit'.

    • ...to ban once and for all the scam of crypto-currencies.

      "Once and for all" -- sounds like something that could be stored on a blockchain ... oh, wait. :-)

    • No. First we pay Russia in bitcoins, and then we ban it, and watch all the "money" we paid to Russia tank in ways that would make the rouble drop look like a day to day variance.

    • I think they're a total scam.

      I don't think they should be banned.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by xtal ( 49134 )

      Sorry you missed out.

      It's still very early though. Bitcoin is going to be the global reserve asset; the only real question is when, not if that happens.

      Biden just announced another 1500 Billion in printing to take the show to September. There will be another 1500 Billion then.

      Bitcoin takes money out of the hands of politicians. This has positive and negative implications, but it's a force of nature now, and can't be stopped.

  • if you want to be _sure_ you can ruin them!

  • even if Russia no longer is.

    Wasn't Russia's central bank in January this year proposing to ban cryptocurrency mining and trading?

    • Russia has plenty of gas with no way to move it to market.

      One way to use the gas is to mine cryptocurrency.

      Russia may soon be the world's biggest miner.

  • I'm smelling a lot of desperation. When bitcoin is your default national currency it stinks of El Salvador.

    • The Ruble [google.com] hasn't completely collapsed, and apparently the efforts of the Russian national bank have been successful at propping it up. It's interesting, in that one can see spikes of activity, that I take are the individual efforts, done over the course of the last month.

      The Hang Seng [google.com] (Chinese stock market) dropped when Putin asked China for economic and military assistance, but went up again when China stated that they would not be giving Russia either. Apparently the threat of sanctions was not lost on Ch

      • Russia's central bank has been successfully propping up the ruble by running down its reserves.

        They have $300B, so plenty of breathing room, but they will eventually run out.

      • the Russian forces have made virtually *no* progress over the past month or so. Russian forces are literally stalled on just about every front.

        Better yet, they have been pushed back on almost all fronts. Even near Mariupol, Russia having trouble keeping their ships alive.

        Russia themselves have said that they are scaling back their goals.

    • Ruble is still the national currency of Russia. They can print as many of those as they want.

      • Ruble is still the national currency of Russia. They can print as many of those as they want.

        They can print as many as they want, yes.
        But that doesn't mean anyone else wants to accept them.

  • And I have $100,000,000 US dollars in Rubles that are frozen in a bank. I need to send them $30,000 for them to look the other way and allow me access to my money. If you can send me $30,000 you can have half of my fortune.

      You may pay in gift cards.

  • Yeah but who's going to pay? (Score:3)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Friday March 25, 2022 @08:39PM (#62390357)
    So those sanctions are backed by the force of law. China is already not complying with our sanctions but Russia doesn't want to get too close to China because they know damned well they'll become economically dependent on China. I'm an idiot and even I can see that trap.

    So who's going to actually buy that oil? Because at some point you're going to have to move that oil and it's going to become very obvious what's going on. First that's going to bring the hammer down on crypto. More specifically on the exchanges where it's actually safe to do these kind of tradings. Expect to see real efforts to curtail money laundering in crypto and therefore expect to see the price of crypto collapse and therefore the value of the crypto Russia is holding.

    Moreover at some point Russia has to give the gas to whoever paid in crypto and you can bet your bottom dollar that when they do the government's enforcing those sanctions are going to be right there to fine the hell out of anyone violating them. Keep it up and you'll be thrown in prison.

    Russia is more and more looking like a failed state.
    • Exchanges aren't ever required for crypto. The peer-to-peer ability is the whole point.

      At this scale, I'm sure Russia will be able to find takers to swap crypto for natural gas.

      And the sanctions only have force of law in the countries that are applying them. International laws are a furphy. Nations ignore them whenever they are inconvenient, because there is no organisation with enforcement capability.
      • Would you ship several million in product to somebody without some anti-fraud systems in place? And how long would you stay in business if you did?

        But sure, if Russia wants to go it alone they can. I'm sure whoever steals all that free gas will thank them.

      • The exchanges are very useful for the needed money laundering to hide the now illegal trade.

        • They may be useful, but my point is that they're not necessary. You can do all that peer-to-peer. Exchanges just want you to think they have the monopoly on enabling it.

          And as I said before - it is only illegal in countries that have made it illegal. It isn't illegal in say Saudi Arabia or India or China.

    • So who's going to actually buy that oil?

      India.

      India is greedily looking at sucking up a whole lot of Russian oil at a steep discount.

    • Even the banks used by Gazprom and Rosneft are still connected to Swift.
      So to answer your question- "Who will buy Russian oil?" Answer: Everybody who wants a good deal for their citizens. Unfortunately Biden is not in that list
      • why use Bitcoin? Use your brain poindexter. Is that low /. id just for show? It doesn't matter if oil & gas are sanctioned when the banks are.

        Bitcoin doesn't get you around that. You're just laundering money. Evading sanctions is a crime no matter how you do it.

        • It doesn't matter if oil & gas are sanctioned when the banks are.

          What banks? You can pay Gazprom just fine, their banks aren't Russian. Or did you miss all the stories of how major companies were circumventing the SWIFT restrictions by opening foreign offices?

          The Bitcoin issue is related to foreign currency conversion. Russian firms are not getting paid in rubbles and that is hitting them a bit, but at no point did Europe stop doing business with Russia, at no point did oil and gas or indeed payment for it cease.

          Use your brain poindexter.

          If I were called out for saying something stupid as often a

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by ghoul ( 157158 )
          EU hasnt sanctioned Russian oil and gas because they need the oil. However they have sanctioned stuff like planes and turbines which Russia needs. The move to crypto is a way of punishing the Euro not an effort to get around non existing sanctions on oil and gas. These are Russian counter sanctions.
    • A lot of Europe is still buying Russian petroleum even now. https://www.infobae.com/en/202... [infobae.com]

    • The rest of Europe buys a _log_ of Russian il, especially Germany.

    • India already says they are going to buy Russian oil.  They don't need crypto to do it legally around US sanctions. 

    • So who's going to actually buy that oil?

      Plenty of people. Despite what you think the sanctions didn't immediately stop the world from doing business with Russia. They were far more targeted than that. The story only yesterday was that Germany plans to *halve* its oil imports from Russia over the coming 3 months.

      The USA was self sufficient so Biden could grandstand on the issue, but the rest of the world not so much. You can't magic alternative oil into existence. You can't just buy more elsewhere when your terminals and loading facilities are alr

    • So who's going to actually buy that oil?

      In the long run, lots of people.

      The west has been pretending that it doesn't need oil. It does though. That's not a ... sustainable ... position. (badum ching)

      Both money and oil are fungible. Oh, it will flow, one way or another.

  • The Dollar ,Franc and Euro are reserve currencies as every tinpot dictator in the world knows his ill gotten gains are safe as long as they are in New York, London or Zurich.

    However this time they froze Russia's money. Now no one wants to keep their ill gotten gains in USD, Euro and CHF. The slide has already begun and Russia is giving it a push by propping up Crypto as an alternative.

    • Now no one wants to keep their ill gotten gains in USD, Euro and CHF.

      Good riddance.

    • > Now no one wants to keep their ill gotten gains in USD, Euro and CHF.

      The reason Russian criminals keep their ill gotten gain in USD, Euro and CHF is because they know their system is rotten and fragile. Putin is turning Russia into a larger version of North Korea. A pariah state where people eat grass and twigs and can't light their cities at night.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ghoul ( 157158 )
        I would think Putin is turning Ukraine into a place where people cant light their cities at night
    • Nonsense, my CHF have gone up in value. Switzerland is still, apparently, consisted a safe haven for money. Perhaps less so for criminal money, but most money isn't criminal, despite cries to the contrary.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ghoul ( 157158 )
        You do realize Switzerland is not covered by NATO Article 5. The only thing protecting Switzerland is neutrality and the Swiss just froze Russian money. Are you really sure NATO will do anything if Russia just decides to nuke Switzerland?
        • Should I be scared of Russian nukes because the country I live in carried out some sanctions? Do you really believe NATO article 5 is what is stopping Russia from nuking Switzerland? BTW you seem to imply that freezing money implies no longer being neutral, this is a misunderstanding. Neutrality regarding conflicts is defined as not supplying military goods nor personnel. Switzerland has even refused to supply bullet proof vests to get civilians out of beleaguered cities, because those could be used by the

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by ghoul ( 157158 )
            The point is the CHF has political risk now so it should be going down against most currencies. Large part of the Swiss economy is refining Russian gold and reexporting it. if Russia demands Rubles for its gold, Swiss economy will have a bad time supporting CHF.
            • I follow the Swiss news ons daily basis, not just since this war, and I have seen stuff about Russian gold trading being sanctioned, but no Swiss article about that mentioned any impact on any Swiss company or activity or financial well-being. Also, on any financial/ economy related article before, I don't recall seeing refining Russian (or other) gold and re-exporting it as a large part of the Swiss economy. You're the first to mention it, in fact, and I find nothing to support it. Got a link? At least the

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by ghoul ( 157158 )
                Here you go for the source [swissinfo.ch]
                • Thanks a lot. Also for your other link. Note that import export wise the gold counts for a lot, with regards to the total economy that's really not to same thing. Your first link explicitly mentioned 67 billion exports and 70 billion gold imports. Only a fraction of that is related to Russia, and the GDP of Switzerland exceeds 750 billion USD. So though some specific corners may be in trouble, the country isn't. The Swiss economy won't blink twice for a couple of billion of Russian gold.

                  • Re: (Score:2)

                    by ghoul ( 157158 )
                    Its not just gold. After Pharma the second biggest sector of the Swiss economy is commodities trading- 80% of Russian oil is traded in Switerland. A big part of this is Swiss dont take sides so even people who hate each other can trade via switzerland. The Swiss just broke neutrality. If the commodities trade moves away to bilateral modes the second largest sector of the Swiss economy is crippled. Its like if the referee in a soccer match tried to score a goal. Noone will hire them to referee again.
                    • You have a point there, but just FYI, Switzerland did not break neutrality. Please look it up, there is lots of confusion, and I too thought they just redefined the word neutrality, but in fact it's defined as not supplying personnel or equipment to fight. Since Switzerland is not doing that, they even refused to supply bulletproof vests for civilians to wear during evacuations, saying that their vests could also be worn by military personnel and that would be a breach of neutrality. It's a myth that Switze

                    • Re: (Score:2)

                      by ghoul ( 157158 )
                      The Swiss froze Russian money but did not freeze NATO money even though NATO is sending shit loads of Weapons into Ukraine prolonging the conflict and increasing casualties. Thats not neutral.
                    • Make no mistake, the Swiss have chosen sides. The literal statement by the council was: to not impose the EU sanctions is to support an aggressor, and we don't want to do that. That has nothing to do with the concept of neutrality, which I've explained and you obviously still fail to grasp. Feel free to insist, it won't make you correct.

                      Regarding prolonging, if you are of the opinion that other countries should not have helped Ukraine because that only increases the suffering, then I'm of the opinion tha

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by ghoul ( 157158 )
                Another more recent source [france24.com]
    • I mean, Russia still has the money, they just can’t currently access it. This is considerably less harsh than how Russia has been seizing assets from foreign companies lately. Evil people will continue to rely on normal reserve currencies because everything else is just too big of a gamble.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ghoul ( 157158 )
        Just try shutting down factories in the US and put millions of union workers out of work and watch what Biden does to you. Any responsible capitalist government would put such companies into administration and reopen them under new management. You cant just throw a hissy fit and play with peoples livelihoods and expect to keep control of your company.
  • Undermine international efforts to rein in leader who is committing war crimes?
  • Cryptocurrencies claiming to be created so that the people can be free of government controlled banks, a government needs it to not be controlled by (other) government controlled banks.

    -LOL, I guess those regulation free investments are now going to be regulated out of existence. Better get out now.

  • Why give bitcoins for oil? Just use the electricity you'd use to mine bitcoins for the purpose you'd want to use the oil for directly

  • Russia's economy is in t-rubble.

  • Elon Musk can halve their value with a well-placed tweet.

  • The "unfriendly" countries being, presumably, the ones that have put sanctions on Russia, how much gas would they be buying form Russia in the first place?

  • To be honest, I don't really understand why cryptocurrency is banned in many countries. I have read that this is due to the fact that the bank cannot control this currency. However, ordinary people always have the opportunity to trade cryptocurrencies, for example, using Bitcode AI [thebitcode.ai]. This is an excellent and high-quality software for automated cryptocurrency trading, which is ideal for both beginners and more experienced users.

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