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Confidential Microsoft Emails Posted Online

Posted by CowboyNeal on Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:10 AM
from the behind-the-curtain dept.
dos4who writes "From the class action 'Comes et al. v. Microsoft' suit, some very enlightening internal Microsoft emails are now made public. Emails to and from Bill Gates, Steve Ballmer, Jim Allchin, etc all make for some mind blowing reading. One of my favorites is from Jim Allchin to Bill Gates, entitled 'losing our way,' in which Allchin states 'I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft.'"
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  • 2001 (Score:5, Funny)

    by DarkOx (621550) on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:13AM (#17873668)
    called they want their Halloween documents back!
  • One of my favorites (Score:5, Interesting)

    by lecithin (745575) on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:14AM (#17873678)
    http://www.iowaconsumercase.org/011107/PX_2768.pdf [iowaconsumercase.org]

    "Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language."
    • Re:One of my favorites (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Cheapy (809643) on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:22AM (#17873752)
      Interestingly, that one is written by someone working on Visual J++.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:One of my favorites (Score:5, Interesting)

        by diesel66 (254283) on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:38AM (#17873878)
        I don't mean to nit-pick you, but it wasn't written merely by someone working on Visual J++.

        It was written the the Visual J++ Product Manager.

        This speaks volumes to the company's strategy.
        [ Parent ]
        • Re:One of my favorites by Frizzle Fry (Score:3) Saturday February 03 2007, @11:52AM
          • Re:One of my favorites (Score:5, Informative)

            by Mydron (456525) on Saturday February 03 2007, @01:53PM (#17874960)

            It's sort of silly to say that the fact that the guy is PM makes him sort of super authority. . . . hell, there are PM interns
            You have product [microsoft.com] and program [microsoft.com] manager confused.

            From the links:
            A program manager "[l]eads the technical side of a product development team, managing and defining the functional specifications and defining how the product will work." These PMs are, as you intimate, a dime a dozen at microsoft.

            A product manager "[f]ormulates business and marketing strategy." These PMs have a lot of authority and make decisions at a much higher level.

            Just compare the description of a product manager [microsoft.com] compared to that of a program manager [microsoft.com].

            There are a 110 product manager job openings at MSFT compared to 365 program manager openings.
            [ Parent ]
            • Re:One of my favorites by Frizzle Fry (Score:1) Saturday February 03 2007, @02:30PM
            • I'm kind of scared... by paniq (Score:1) Saturday February 03 2007, @04:12PM
            • Program Manager? by tepples (Score:2) Sunday February 04 2007, @06:08PM
            • Re:One of my favorites by PHPfanboy (Score:1) Saturday February 03 2007, @04:22PM
            • Re:One of my favorites (Score:4, Informative)

              by julesh (229690) on Saturday February 03 2007, @06:02PM (#17877020)
              That's BS. Program Managers are usually technical and Product Managers are marketing folks. They work on different things. A Product Manager takes the product when it's done positions it on the market.

              That's BS. For example, Jim Allchin is the Windows Product Manager. He had pretty much the final say over what features were and weren't included in Vista during its development.
              [ Parent ]
            • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
          • Re:One of my favorites by viking80 (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @02:51PM
          • Re:One of my favorites by nbritton (Score:3) Saturday February 03 2007, @02:51PM
        • 10 years ago. by erikdotla (Score:1) Saturday February 03 2007, @04:18PM
    • Re:One of my favorites by Jugalator (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @11:49AM
    • Re:One of my favorites by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Saturday February 03 2007, @12:37PM
    • Context is important (Score:5, Interesting)

      by BenJeremy (181303) on Saturday February 03 2007, @01:39PM (#17874858)
      Let's not forget that both people discussing "screw Sun" used to work for them. There is probably a whole lot of baggage we'll never know that goes along with two guys switching companies and paradigms.

      As an EDSer, I've seen plenty of my former colleagues take a "screw EDS" view in their new companies... they were dissatisfied with aspects of business and how they were managed (sometimes justifiably, sometimes not so much); until they became just as disafected by their new employers, they were considerably hostile in words and action, at times, to their old employer.

      Given that they were involved with J++, discussing a cross-platform mandate (big with Slashdotters, but not even a blip on the radar screen with 99% of Microsoft's customer base), and the context of the discussion involved co-opting lessons learned and design imperitives (not really the product itself), this discussion was not exactly the smoking gun you guys would like it to be.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Context is important by Unnngh! (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @04:18PM
      • Re:Context is important -- screwing is one thing, by pallmall1 (Score:1) Saturday February 03 2007, @04:19PM
      • Context. (Score:4, Interesting)

        by twitter (104583) on Saturday February 03 2007, @04:43PM (#17876392)
        (http://lists.clickers.org/linuxsig/index.html | Last Journal: Friday November 09, @11:00PM)

        Given that they were involved with J++, discussing a cross-platform mandate (big with Slashdotters, but not even a blip on the radar screen with 99% of Microsoft's customer base), and the context of the discussion involved co-opting lessons learned and design imperatives (not really the product itself), this discussion was not exactly the smoking gun you guys would like it to be.

        The attitude is not so easily dismissed and it shows itself again and again. While the comment might be aimed at Sun, it ultimately harms the customer.

        "Cross-platform" is a huge subject that customers deeply care about but one that M$ customers will always be disappointed with. People desperately want their computers and other devices to work together but it's not going to happen with a company like M$ around. People want their PDA, cameras, portable music players and DVRs to work together and share information. Anyone trying to provide that for customers on a M$ platform is doomed to have their work broken when M$ inevitably comes in to steal the market. "Let's steal java," is a perfect example. When he says that, he means "we have the market share and can define what works and what does not." I watched them do the same thing to Palm, when "security" updates screwed over sync on W2K, so that the new Windoze Pocket PCs could gain market share. And, we've seen the same kind of thing in portable music players [theregister.co.uk]. The third E of EEE is extinguish. Once the treat to M$ dominance has been removed, the thing stolen will be ignored or removed. The issue is so much larger than Java and one or two employees. When you sum up all the pieces, the picture that emerges is not pretty at all, is it?

        [ Parent ]
        • Re:Context. by BenJeremy (Score:2) Sunday February 04 2007, @01:56PM
          • Re:Context. (Score:5, Interesting)

            by makomk (752139) on Sunday February 04 2007, @03:18PM (#17882938)
            (Last Journal: Friday August 17, @08:29AM)
            Your blanket statement is no more valid than mine, with one exception, I've worked in the industry with everything from big movers to mass-produced consumer goods. Please, take it from me, cross-platform is not that important to a consumer.

            There is a point of diminishing returns, where MOST consumers simply don't want an all-in-one device, for example, or simply don't care to have a spreadsheet work in Linux and Windows. People just want to turn on a computer and USE it. They want to turn on a DVR and USE it. They want to dial a number and USE it. Inter-operability, multi-functionality, cross-platform code... all results in more complexity, and usually a "Jack of all trades, master of none" device. This is also known as the "lowest common denominator".


            Exactly. They just want to be able to buy a DVR and hook it up to their existing television and use it, without worrying about ensuring they're the same brand or dealing with masses of different, subtly incompatible, non-standard products. What's more, most of the time they can. (It's odd how incompatibilty, lack of standardization, and the resulting inconveniences, monocultures and near-monopolies are so widespread in software, when people wouldn't stand for it elsewhere.)
            [ Parent ]
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Context is important-crossplatform for Windows by Locutus (Score:3) Saturday February 03 2007, @08:41PM
      • Re:Context is important by Fulcrum of Evil (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @08:58PM
      • Re:Context is important by oohshiny (Score:2) Sunday February 04 2007, @06:49AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Linux material (Score:4)

      by zCyl (14362) on Saturday February 03 2007, @08:45PM (#17877966)
      I tried going through it manually, and then noticed there were countless emails, most of which were boring. A much better approach is to google through the emails for keywords like this [google.com].

      In doing so, I noticed the first hit is a document outlining their strategy for partially breaking networking compatibility with Linux. "Our Linux Strategy" [iowaconsumercase.org]

      Another document [iowaconsumercase.org] from January of '99 describes Linux's greatest strength over NT as its flexibility, and its greatest weakness as its ease of use (although nearly every usage problem specifically mentioned no longer applies in modern Linux distributions). It also describes two of their worst-case scenarios being that IBM and Sun adopt Linux. One quote of interest is, "There is the very real long term threat that as MS expends the development dollars to create a bevy of new features in NT, Linux will simply cherry pick the best features an [sic] incorporate them into their codebase. The effect of patents and copyright in combatting Linux remains to be investigated."
      [ Parent ]
    • well, they were right on both counts by oohshiny (Score:2) Sunday February 04 2007, @06:45AM
    • Re:broken legal system (Score:5, Insightful)

      A legal system who shows so little self respect, letting these leaks happen, not investigating prosectuing and harshly punishing the source of such leaks, cannot expect others to respect it.

      These aren't "illegal leaks" - they're evidence that has been made public - and rightfully so - because justice must not only be done, but seen to be done. Don't expect to be able to keep illegal anti-competitive activities secret because of some non-existent "corporate right to privacy."

      [ Parent ]
      • Re:broken legal system by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @11:42AM
      • But corporations are people too! by Colin Smith (Score:1) Saturday February 03 2007, @12:46PM
        • The "right to privacy" doesn't extend to evidence admitted in open court.

          This is necessary to uphold the integrity of the courts. Otherwise, people won't know the basis on which a finding of guilt or innocence was made, leading to all sorts of accusations of favoritism and backroom deals, bribes, etc.

          [ Parent ]
        • Re:But corporations are people too! by BandwidthHog (Score:3) Saturday February 03 2007, @01:48PM
        • BullSh*t (Score:5, Informative)

          by shis-ka-bob (595298) on Saturday February 03 2007, @03:56PM (#17876034)
          This statement is so confused. The Constitution grants individuals all rights not specifically enumerated (Ninth Amendment). So we have the right to use the privy (how our Founding Fathers used 'privacy' - a 'moment of privacy' was time to use the outhouse). We also have the right to have children, eat, sleep, drink and so forth. None of these are specifically enumerated and not of these are applicable to a corporation.


          Giving corporations HUMAN rights is completely messed up. They should enjoy the same rights as any group of people, but they should never be given human rights. Microsoft is allowed to have internal documents that it can protect. But when these documents are demanded by a court, the court can allow the documents to be made public. The judge has allowed Roxanne Connlin to release all of these documents on the website. Microsoft has petitioned to keep some documents out of the public domain, and these documents are not on the site.


          Curiously, this is the first time that Bill Gates testimony to the DOJ is viewable by the public. This case is shining a great deal of light on Microsoft business practices.

          [ Parent ]
          • Re:BullSh*t by julesh (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @06:07PM
            • Re:BullSh*t by jthill (Score:1) Saturday February 03 2007, @09:34PM
          • Re:BullSh*t by DamnStupidElf (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @10:48PM
          • The American Irony bypass by Colin Smith (Score:2) Sunday February 04 2007, @05:50AM
          • Re:BullSh*t by Brad Eleven (Score:2) Sunday February 04 2007, @12:34PM
      • Re:broken legal system (Score:5, Interesting)

        by caffeinemessiah (918089) on Saturday February 03 2007, @01:43PM (#17874884)
        (Last Journal: Sunday November 06 2005, @11:51PM)
        This reminds me of the Enron e-mail data that was released, with similarly "shocking" emails. Actually, in the Enron case, they really were illuminating because a lot of e-mails addressed to Ken Lay towards the end of the company's life included the words "you bastard". Also, you didn't have to look very hard to find rampant corporate nepotism (Ken Lay's daughter Elizabeth pimping her friends). The original dataset is at CMU [cmu.edu], and a web-browsable version is at enronemail.com [enronemail.com], although you have to register for the latter one. The first link lets you download the zipped contents of a bunch of executive's email boxes (sent items, deleted items, inbox, etc.)...it's really nuts.
        [ Parent ]
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:broken legal system (Score:5, Informative)

      by MindStalker (22827) <[ude.usf] [ta] [nesralj]> on Saturday February 03 2007, @12:15PM (#17874166)
      (Last Journal: Tuesday September 13 2005, @03:45PM)
      Your probably a troll, but if not. The plaintifs got the judges permission to post these exibits. http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article ?AID=/20070108/BUSINESS/70108029/1029 [desmoinesregister.com]

      No leaks at all.
      [ Parent ]
    • Hey Steve by grimJester (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @04:01PM
    • Re:broken legal system by PopeRatzo (Score:2) Monday February 05 2007, @09:18AM
    • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • Email (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:16AM (#17873694)
    If only they had used lycos for their email.
  • In communist Russia... (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:17AM (#17873704)
    In communist Russia, the Mac would buy Allchin today if it weren't working for Microsoft.
  • It just goes to say that (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Travoltus (110240) on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:18AM (#17873712)
    (Last Journal: Saturday April 01 2006, @09:51PM)
    MicroSoft's worst detractors are their own execs.
  • Groklaw coverage (Score:5, Interesting)

    by arun_s (877518) on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:20AM (#17873728)
    (http://arungoodboy.wordpress.com/ | Last Journal: Monday June 18, @06:41AM)
    Is this not the same thing Groklaw covered [groklaw.net] quite sometime back? There are several updates in the link, including a clarification [windowsvistablog.com] from Allchin on that 'I'd buy a Mac' quote.
    • Re:Groklaw coverage (Score:4, Interesting)

      by stsp (979375) on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:41AM (#17873910)
      (http://stsp.name/)

      Is this not the same thing Groklaw covered quite sometime back? There are several updates in the link, including a clarification from Allchin on that 'I'd buy a Mac' quote.

      Which is hilarious in itself :)

      Quote:

      2-and-a-half years later, Windows Vista has turned into a phenomenal product, better than any other OS we've ever built and far, far better than any other software available today, in my opinion. It's going to be available to customers on Jan 30, and I suggest everyone go out and get it as soon as you can. It's that good.

      Next thing he says is:

      The spirit of being self-critical continues to flourish at Microsoft.

      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Groklaw coverage (Score:4, Interesting)

        by x-caiver (458687) on Saturday February 03 2007, @01:37PM (#17874840)
        (Last Journal: Saturday May 15 2004, @08:33PM)

        2-and-a-half years later, Windows Vista has turned into a phenomenal product, better than any other OS we've ever built and far, far better than any other software available today, in my opinion. It's going to be available to customers on Jan 30, and I suggest everyone go out and get it as soon as you can. It's that good.

        Next thing he says is:

        The spirit of being self-critical continues to flourish at Microsoft.

        Those two sentences may seem to conflict, but you are not seeing the whole picture.

        You are not seeing the people who are already working on making their feature 'have more features'. You are not seeing the work that the team is doing in preparation for a Service Pack, which will not add much in the way of new features but will address any late breaking issues or customer-reported features requests/bugs. And most importantly, you aren't seeing the individuals who are extremely passionate about the products that are shipped by Microsoft, the people who write ranting emails to other teams, the people who use the product and file bugs about how something is lame, or the people who go to meetings and sometimes have to get in to shouting matches with other people who just don't get it.

        Vista, like it or not, has turned into a 'phenomenal' product, by definition. Is it better than any other OS MS has released? Well, in some places it is, and in some places it isn't. There is a lot of new code that fixes a lot of old issues, but there are new behaviors that are less than pleasant. Is it far better than any other software available today? I don't really know what that even means. 'Better' in usability, stability, feature-bredth, customer-focus, opportunity for 3rd party develops, source code quantity? Who knows, luckily he put 'in my opinion' after it so we don't have to try to figure it out.

        But, the point is: The spirit of being self-critical is alive, and though every now and then it suffers a minor setback those events are simply small battles in the larger war.
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:Groklaw coverage by unchiujar (Score:1) Saturday February 03 2007, @02:04PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Groklaw coverage (Score:5, Interesting)

      by nacturation (646836) on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:41AM (#17873914)
      (Last Journal: Thursday May 24, @01:08AM)
      Anyone have the original video? The URL (http://www.apple.com/ilife/video/ilife04_32C.html ) in the PDF is a 404... Apple should really put it back up.
       
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Groklaw coverage (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Vellmont (569020) on Saturday February 03 2007, @12:08PM (#17874130)

      including a clarification from Allchin on that 'I'd buy a Mac' quote.

      Where I live we don't call that clarification, we call that spin.
      [ Parent ]
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Clarification and Implications. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Erris (531066) on Saturday February 03 2007, @12:36PM (#17874346)
      (http://yro.slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/177855 | Last Journal: Sunday November 04, @10:56PM)

      Nothing could be more clear than the intention of the rant, so I'll type it here for those too lazy to click the link. It deserves the space.

      I'm not sure how the company lost sight of what matters to our customers (both business and home) the most, but in my view we lost our way. ... our teams lost sight of what bug-free means, what resilience means, what full scenarios mean, what security means, what performance means, how important current applications are and really understanding what the most important probems are customers face are. I see lots of random features and some great vision, but that doesn't translate into great products.

      ...

      I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft. If you run the equivalent of VPC on a MAC you get access to basically all Windows applications software ... If we are to rise to the challenge of Linux and Apple, we need to start taking the lessons of "scenario, simple, fast" to heart.

      -Jim Allchin, January 07 2004

      It's obvious they did not listen to him and that's good for everyone. Vista is 10 GB in size and wastes all sorts of processing power for it's DRM insanity, after they dropped their silly new file system and many other vaporware improvements. While it will be difficult if not impossible to make Vista work under Linux or Mac, it's not going to matter because Vista is going to kill the platform. The failure of Vista, more than the failure of Zune and Xbox shows that M$ is going to have to compete on something other than, "It's M$ and you are going to need them tomorrow no matter how crappy their stuff is."

      [ Parent ]
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • HAHAHA (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:21AM (#17873742)
    These confirm that Microsoft so-called critics are just telling it like it is. Vista is a second-rate, user-hostile OSX knock-off, .NET is a java knock-off and MS senior execs are lying through their teeth when they talk about innovation.

    Classic stuff.

  • Coral Cache (Score:4, Informative)

    by Baldrson (78598) * on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:24AM (#17873760)
    (http://www.geocities.com/jim_bowery | Last Journal: Tuesday September 19 2006, @10:20PM)
  • Thats nothing.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    If you read what people post here, most sane people wouldn't touch linux and would look at these discussions as childs play.
  • Losing our way? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Rolman (120909) on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:26AM (#17873782)
    It's interesting for Jim Allchin to state this, because in terms of performance, security and understanding what the most important problems a customer face, I didn't know Microsoft had a "way" they're somehow losing now. To say that Microsoft has always been lazy in these areas is an understatement.

    Now this gets me thinking, because we in FLOSS care a lot about security and performance, but not too much about the end users experience and the applications that are important to them. We all know how Apple just Gets It(tm) and we should, too, if we ever want to expand our installed base and market share beyond geeks and tech savvy users.
    • Re:Losing our way? by nomadic (Score:1) Saturday February 03 2007, @11:31AM
    • Indeed, how can you lose your way by Colin Smith (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @12:54PM
    • Another measure of how bad Vista is. by Erris (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @12:55PM
    • F/LOSS: are *we* "Losing our way"? by KWTm (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @04:30PM
    • Re:Losing our way? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by iluvcapra (782887) on Saturday February 03 2007, @12:24PM (#17874240)
      (http://www.soundepartment.com/)

      Surely you knew that 90% of the world uses Windows. You can't claim a figure like that is only the result of monopolistic practices and be serious

      You're right, under 60% or so they're merely "predatory practices!" :D

      It fits people's needs by being something that is brain-dead useable across an enormous variety of hardware

      It fits people's needs by being on their computer when they bought it; people don't choose OS's, they're considered features of the box you pay for. Thus, Windows is useable for people, but the economic signal that drives Windows quality is the demands of the OEM bundlers, not the users. MS is trying to change this slowly, and maybe they'll just have to start selling their own computers at some point.

      But what's the point in trying to expand market share, just for its own sake?

      It's an important part of a bunch of positive feedback loop, not least of which is: more users -> more developers -> more software titles -> more users.

      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Losing our way? by MightyYar (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @12:36PM
      • Re:Losing our way? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Lazerf4rt (969888) on Saturday February 03 2007, @12:53PM (#17874474)

        Explorer was [not] so much better than Netscape that it deserved a 90% market share.

        Netscape was better up until around Netscape 4, when it turned into a clunky, steaming pile, and IE actually became the better, smoother, more enjoyable browser for a while. Today, Firefox is better.

        Excel was not so much better than Quattro Pro. Word was not so much better than WordPerfect.

        After Corel bought Quattro Pro and WordPerfect, they turned into steaming piles. I know... I worked there. :-) I think around WordPerfect 9, there was a latency in your typing that made it feel like a telnet session. And it crashed a lot. Excel and Word crash too, but generally, they've always been consistently solid, enjoyable products that get the job done.

        [ Parent ]
    • Re:Losing our way? by Darby (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @02:19PM
    • Re:Losing our way? by cowscows (Score:3) Saturday February 03 2007, @02:41PM
    • Re:Losing our way? by oohshiny (Score:3) Sunday February 04 2007, @07:15AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Could this explain... (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:26AM (#17873784)
    ...why Jim Gray went missing? Possibly that buried within one of the emails is the cryptic line "J. must GO! Do what ever it takes!"

    Stay tuned!

  • by bratwiz (635601) on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:26AM (#17873788)

    The Linux Strategy???

    Since we now know that Microsoft is willing (nay, obsessed) to go "to the mat", as it were, the Linux strategy should be to exploit this tendancy as often as possible. If it happens often enough, either it will become an un-tenable situation for Microsoft, wherein after Microsoft will no longer be able to make any kind of TCO statements regarding Linux vs. Microsoft; and/or else they will go broke in all these no-profit deals (okay, admittedly, it will take them awhile to go broke... but it could happen! :)

    If nothing else, these documents reveal _very_ publically (what many of us already knew) that Microsoft is scared SHITLESS of Linux.

    Why should the market leader (a monopolistic, strong-arming, dirty-tricks, no-holds-barred leader at that!) be scared of a FREE operating system and open-source applications-- unless they can see that their dominant position is deeply threatened?

    Maybe Balmer will throw some more chairs at somebody. Better be prepared to duck fast.

    I wonder what business Microsoft will get into after computers, software and IT? :)
    • by EveryNickIsTaken (1054794) on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:39AM (#17873888)
      "..(what many of us already knew) that Microsoft is scared SHITLESS of Linux."

      Given that the youth of America have been brought up on MS products, they're going to have a stronger attachement to them than those of us who were brought up on Commodores, Amigas, and Apples. MS *clearly* knows this. Think about that.

      [ Parent ]
      • Wishful Thinking (Score:5, Interesting)

        by LibertineR (591918) on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:45AM (#17873946)
        Microsoft may have been scared of Linux at one time, but that is certainly not true today.

        This is because the promise of Linux has been wasted by the lack of production of true killer applications, allowing both Microsoft and Apple to further embed their OS's among their faithful.

        New systems shipping with Vista are sticking a finger in the Penguin's eye, because when it comes down to it, its all about the apps.

        [ Parent ]
        • Re:Wishful Thinking (Score:5, Insightful)

          by 4e617474 (945414) on Saturday February 03 2007, @01:16PM (#17874688)

          This is because the promise of Linux has been wasted by the lack of production of true killer applications, allowing both Microsoft and Apple to further embed their OS's among their faithful.

          I remember sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for Linux's world domination, but I don't think that that was ever its promise. The whole concept of the "killer application", IMHO, runs contrary to the Linux way of doing things. In fact, the more obviously useful a "Linux" app tends to be to large numbers of people, the more likely you are to see Windows and OS X ports.

          Linux let users run whatever machine they could get their hands on and have a stable, supported (as in patched and secure) system that would run current apps while the Mac and Windows worlds had people running to the store to replace perfectly good machines. Schools in under-funded districts and governments in poor countries slowly discover that proprietary software vendors hold them over a barrel while FLOSS just gives and gives. These aren't strategies that get you ahead by the next fiscal quarter, but they get you ahead of where you were four or five years ago.

          MSFT and Apple fight for their share of consumers (and MSFT pretty much takes the business world for granted) while the FLOSS world makes sure to keep doing what they're doing and their share of developers, enterprise users, and savvy home users expands slowly but steadily. Linux isn't out to get people to come on board because it's got something you'll be deprived of if you don't, and it isn't out to attack or exploit how the other guys slip up. Hell, Linux isn't marching lock-step towards any single goal - it's fragmented, huge numbers of disparate groups and individuals working towards different ends, which Linus has said is exactly what he likes to see. Linux developers achieve a means to an end, polish up the rough edges when they've got something that's going to be around for a while and the users demand it, and let you get off the roller coaster of everyone else deciding what latest and greatest features you just have to have. You want Linux? Here it is. You want to wait a few years for it to improve some more? It will, and it will still be yours for the asking. [insert stream vs. boulder or similar Taoist metaphor]

          [ Parent ]
        • Re:Wishful Thinking by edwardpickman (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @01:24PM
        • Re:Wishful Thinking by Anonymous Coward (Score:3) Saturday February 03 2007, @02:00PM
        • Not sure. by Almahtar (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @02:42PM
        • Re:Wishful Thinking by Jackie_Chan_Fan (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @02:44PM
        • Re:Wishful Thinking by kfg (Score:1) Saturday February 03 2007, @03:40PM
        • Really? (Score:5, Insightful)

          by codepunk (167897) on Saturday February 03 2007, @04:44PM (#17876398)
          (http://www.codepunk.com/)
          Linux is the killer application and it will be even more so in the future. Don't worry MS is scared of Linux and probably even more so today.

          1. When you typed this posted at least a few linux boxes where involved in storing, sorting
          and displaying your drivel.

          2. I bet you probably even do a few google searches per day, there you go again 100,000 linux boxes
          faithfully answer your request at lightning speed.

          3. Go to work and half the printers there probably have embedded linux.

          4. You are probably posting using your wireless router again running linux.

          5. Watching your dvr or tivo today, again linux.

          6. Go to the movies and watching CG animation again rendered on linux.

          7. Request a web page, probably linux dns server answering that request.

          8. Check your email, again probably linux or routed through linux boxes somewhere.

          9. Wipe your ass, some embedded controller at the paper mill running linux made that happen.

          10. Picking your nose... well ok linux probably had nothing to do with that but that is what the
          parent had to be doing when authoring that post.

          Linux touches your life everyday and does so without
          being noticed...now that is the killer app!
          [ Parent ]
          • Re:Really? by Jesus_666 (Score:3) Sunday February 04 2007, @02:31PM
        • Re:Wishful Thinking by PenGun (Score:1) Saturday February 03 2007, @06:33PM
        • Re:Wishful Thinking by Lumpy (Score:3) Saturday February 03 2007, @07:46PM
        • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Very Interesting -- Tux Looms Large! Who Knew? by Ucklak (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @12:16PM
      • Re:Very Interesting -- Tux Looms Large! Who Knew? by sploxx (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @04:47PM
      • Re:Very Interesting -- Tux Looms Large! Who Knew? by smash (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @05:16PM
      • Re:Very Interesting -- Tux Looms Large! Who Knew? by mrchaotica (Score:2) Sunday February 04 2007, @05:41AM
      • Re:Very Interesting -- Tux Looms Large! Who Knew? by StikyPad (Score:2) Sunday February 04 2007, @08:06PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Very Interesting -- Tux Looms Large! Who Knew? by HappySqurriel (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @11:39AM
    • they're terrified of Apple too by toby (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @03:10PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Cold and MSHeartless. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by spleen_blender (949762) on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:28AM (#17873796)
    I think it is kind of refreshing to see such emails. At least it lets us know that they aren't totally disconnected from reality and at least from the looks of it want to make progress that is not only profitable for their company, but for computing as a whole. Oh yeah, I HATE TEH MICRO$AUFT ZOMG! Sorry, was obligatory.
  • by jonadab (583620) <jonadab@bright.net> on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:30AM (#17873822)
    (http://mistersanity.blogspot.com/ | Last Journal: Tuesday May 29, @04:42PM)
    That's what happened to WinFS: Jim Allchin killed it, or talked someone into killing it. If you read that "losing our way" email carefully, that's what he's talking about. LH means Longhorn, i.e., what they were calling Vista at the time (early 2004). "We need a simple fast storage system" in this context means "We need to ditch WinFS".

    The "scenario" stuff is probably related to this topic also, but I don't know enough about the culture inside of Microsoft to say how.
  • Microsoft brand FUD (Score:5, Informative)

    by DaveM753 (844913) on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:37AM (#17873876)
    (http://www.yeahblah.com/)
    I love this:

    From exhibit PX 851, a memo from bradsi to billg and steveb (among others) regarding alleged "bugs" in DR DOS as found by Microsoft commissioned NSTL:

    "We are engaged in a FUD campaign to let the press know about some of the bugs. We'll provide info a few bugs at a time to stretch it out."

    Ahhhh...Microsoft(r) Time-Released FUD(tm). Gotta love it. :-)

  • /. bias (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Arathon (1002016) <petergaultney@COMMAgmail.com minus punct> on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:44AM (#17873938)
    (Last Journal: Monday October 08, @07:57PM)
    Disclaimer: I like Linux more than I like Windows.

    Still, I just don't get why this would be somehow indicative of anything but good things of Microsoft. Everyone knows that 3 years ago, they were floundering in regards to Vista. Whether you like Vista now or not, it's a perfectly reasonable thing for him to have said (i.e. I'd buy a Mac), and most likely an exaggeration anyway. It all makes a lot of sense to me, and we don't do ourselves credit as part of the FOSS community by bashing anything that isn't just because we can. =)
    • Re:/. bias (Score:5, Funny)

      by DogDude (805747) on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:54AM (#17874000)
      (http://phydeauxpets.com/)
      Actually, that comment is indicative of a well run business. They identified problems with their own products, they identified their competitors' strengths, and they moved to address those issues. Realizations like that are part of the reason that they're the #1 software company on the planet.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:/. bias by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Saturday February 03 2007, @12:07PM
        • Re:/. bias (Score:5, Interesting)

          by ScrewMaster (602015) on Saturday February 03 2007, @01:03PM (#17874566)
          when their business revolves around making me-too parodies of competitors innovative products.

          So what? Competition often involves duplicating or emulating a competitor's efforts, particularly when there aren't many ways to solve a particular problem. The entire patent and copyright systems in the U.S. were once geared toward encouraging the creation of new ideas and products, with the intent that they would eventually become the property of everyone. Consumers benefit when good product ideas are promulgated throughout an entire industry. Frankly, I'd like to see Microsoft steal more of the good stuff from other operating systems rather than simply ladling in more DRM and SFX.

          The fact that Microsoft isn't innovative is largely irrelevant when deciding if they are a good company or not, if you define innovative as meaning the development of novel products in-house. Many companies acquire technology originally developed outside the confines of their own organization. Is Google a bad company because they bought YouTube? Is Apple a bad company simply because they used some ideas originally developed by PARC? Windows NT (and all derivative OSes) benefited from technology originally developed by DEC and taken to Microsoft by Dave Cutler and his people. This idea that a company is somehow defective because it doesn't do everything on its own is a bit off-base. The fact that Microsoft point-blank steals a lot of technology, denies that fact, and the refuses to pay the originators is more to the point, however.

          People spend a lot of time complaining about the unoriginality of Microsoft's products. Who cares? Graphical operating system technology is becoming fairly mature and commoditized at this point, as a matter of fact most users don't particularly want novelty anymore ... they want efficiency and familiarity because computers are no longer expensive gadgets but necessary tools. In a sense, the user base has become more conservative with time and less tolerant of gratuitous changes. That's hurting Microsoft, because those selfsame users aren't really seeing a clear need for the latest-greatest any more.

          For example, I don't want my socket set working differently every few months, I want the damn things to do their jobs in a consistent manner. Yet, once I did buy a new set because the handle had some kind of gearing that gave a mechanical advantage ... very useful and worth the money. Operating systems are no different in that respect: if you want me to invest in something new, make damn sure it's worth my effort, otherwise I'll just be seriously torqued off. Apple has traditionally had a much better (not perfect, but better) grasp of this aspect of the user mentality than Microsoft.

          In the end, this has less to do with the originality of the ideas that Microsoft turns into products as it does with the quality of those implementations. By taking the comparatively poor quality of the products that Microsoft has sold over the years in concert with the equally-poor ethical (indeed, outright criminal) standards upon which that company operates ... now you can honestly say you have a bad company. Of course, if you're talking about profit-margin and growth rate, hell, Microsoft is an awesome corporation.
          [ Parent ]
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:/. bias by Almahtar (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @03:43PM
    • Re:/. bias (Score:4, Insightful)

      by pla (258480) on Saturday February 03 2007, @12:36PM (#17874350)
      (Last Journal: Monday April 03 2006, @07:23PM)
      Whether you like Vista now or not, it's a perfectly reasonable thing for him to have said (i.e. I'd buy a Mac), and most likely an exaggeration anyway.

      Agreed. Whether exaggeration for effect, or just admitting that Apple has a damned fine user interface that MS would do well to "borrow" from, I don't really think we should take comments like that as the proof of internal decay most have made it out as.

      For comparison, how many Linux and FOSS-in-general fans run Windows on their primary desktop machine? I, for one, will admit that I do, because Linux quite simply hurts to use as a desktop on a daily basis. I absolutely love it for anything running behind the scenes (NAS, routers, webservers, mailservers, etc), but when it comes to sitting down and getting real work done at a workstation (or even just wasting time playing a game), Windows has Linux beat hands-down.

      And I say that as someone who rolls his own distros. I understand how to make any desired functionality work, but that doesn't mean I want to waste that much effort every time I install a sound or video card, or god forbid try to add any USB device other than keyboard/mouse/mass-storage.

      I think a lot of the problem comes down to multimedia. For any machine that doesn't need sound or graphics and only rarely changes hardware, Linux kicks serious ass. For the rest, I hope you have the exact same rev of the exact same hardware and run the same version of the same distro as someone who wrote a HowTo article, or get ready for some pain.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:/. bias by Xofer D (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @02:38PM
      • Re:/. bias by smash (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @05:04PM
      • Re:/. bias by evilviper (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @05:41PM
      • Re:/. bias by Jesus_666 (Score:2) Sunday February 04 2007, @03:06PM
      • Re:/. bias by dbIII (Score:2) Sunday February 04 2007, @08:11PM
      • Re:/. bias by KayosIII (Score:1) Wednesday February 07 2007, @09:13AM
      • Re:/. bias by raju1kabir (Score:2) Sunday February 04 2007, @05:44AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • finally... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Grinin (1050028) on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:51AM (#17873980)
    (http://www.chrisllorca.com/)
    some true insight right out the mouth of the sources. I'm bookmarking these, and I've already printed some for my friends to read. Finally some proof that the evil empire is truly evil. "Screw Sun?" Scre you M$! Their products work!
    • Re:finally... by heatdeath (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @05:35PM
      • Re:finally... by Grinin (Score:1) Sunday February 04 2007, @01:15AM
  • I don't know why (Score:4, Funny)

    by Omeger (939765) on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:56AM (#17874030)
    (Last Journal: Wednesday January 17 2007, @09:51PM)
    They would want to buy a Mac. You can do a LOT more things a LOT cheaper on a normal PC.
  • by koan (80826) on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:58AM (#17874048)
    (http://www.lostpacket.net/)
    Im a big fan of XP, but Vista has left me scratching my head trying to figure out what they were up to, from the emails I gather they don't really know either.
  • FUD is a corporate value. (from 91) (Score:5, Interesting)

    by emptybody (12341) on Saturday February 03 2007, @12:01PM (#17874068)
    (http://townlines.com/blog | Last Journal: Tuesday January 24 2006, @09:49AM)


    We are engaged in a FUD campaign to let the press know about some of the bugs.
    We'll provide info a few bugs at a time to stretch it out


    the proof is in the pudding [iowaconsumercase.org]
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft.
    So.. what is it? He's getting free software because he works at Microsoft, so that's why he doesn't own a Mac? Or he's afraid to own a Mac because he's a Microsoft employee?

    I mean, at least he could buy the Mac and say he wanted to stay familiar with the competition.. you knows.. friends close, enemies closer, and all that... When really he just wanted the Mac.

    And if somebody that high up in Microsoft is going to not buy the computer they want because they save a little money using the computer they don't, when they're obviously plenty wealthy to own the one they want.. Well.. wtf.

    In short, this guy pisses me off.

    TLF
    • Re:Uhm, Whatever, Jim by stewbacca (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @12:49PM
    • Re:Uhm, Whatever, Jim (Score:4, Informative)

      by jjohnson (62583) on Saturday February 03 2007, @01:29PM (#17874786)
      It's not that he wants a Mac, it's that, if he weren't an interested party in the success of Microsoft (and you can imagine the publicity that would result from a photo of Jim Allchin opening a PowerBook), and he were choosing between Mac and an XP based notebook, he'd take the Mac. It's an evocative way of saying "right now, Mac is better than what we're offering."
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Uhm, Whatever, Jim by tetsuo29 (Score:1) Saturday February 03 2007, @01:44PM
    • Re:Uhm, Whatever, Jim by IL-CSIXTY4 (Score:1) Saturday February 03 2007, @02:50PM
    • Re:Uhm, Whatever, Jim by limecat4eva (Score:1) Saturday February 03 2007, @02:55PM
    • Re:Uhm, Whatever, Jim by kfg (Score:1) Saturday February 03 2007, @04:02PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • What a bunch of Wing Nuts. (Score:5, Informative)

    by twitter (104583) on Saturday February 03 2007, @12:01PM (#17874074)
    (http://lists.clickers.org/linuxsig/index.html | Last Journal: Friday November 09, @11:00PM)

    Not even the rhetoric from a "Women's study" class can prepare the reader for the contents of those letters. All the diabolical "power" talk is like a script from a bad movie. Start anywhere and you get there fast. They really are sick.

    The first thing I looked at had this nonsense: [iowaconsumercase.org]

    To gain power, IBM's got to take it away from Microsoft, and our power starts with DOS. ... We are engaged in a FUD campaign to let the press know about some of the [DR-DOS] bugs.

    You might recall later evidence from the Novel DR-DOS lawsuit, where Microsoft later killed DR-DOS off by making Win3.1 not work with it and then blaming DR-DOS in BBS postings. Nice.

    The next thing seems to indicate witness tampering [iowaconsumercase.org] in the same power struggle.

    The next random look [iowaconsumercase.org] has more opinion manipulation trough astroturf:

    User story placement - developing and placing MS-DOS related stories in key publications, both trade and vertical, to communicate that corporations have a large investment in MS-DOS and will continue to trust in it. Develop user profiles?

    And it goes on and on. The targets today are the ones that survived, IBM, Novel, and friends but now include the free software that everyone but M$ has agreed to use because it's better. Instead of fudding BBS, they are here and in the newspapers and TV networks they purchased for the purpose. If these dorks spent half the time wasted on improving their product, they might have a product that works. Instead, they have focused on marketing, "power" and other crap that's ended in DRM [slashdot.org] and botnet hell. No one should trust M$ for anything and everything they touch is suspect.

  • context to 'losing our way' (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dioscaido (541037) on Saturday February 03 2007, @12:19PM (#17874204)
    Written on January 2004. This was just before the big 'reset' where they realized they were going in the wrong direction, and completely refocused their efforts -- they wen't gun-ho on security, developing XP SP2, and moving 'longhorn' development to the win2k3 codebase instead of the bloated junk they had for the very early previews.

    So the statement makes total sense within context. Soon after Jim's statement, the development of 'longhorn' was dramatically altered. You can't use it as a reflection of the RTM'd product. The RTM'd product is a result of these harsh words.
  • What I don't get (Score:5, Funny)

    Is Jim Allchin.

    I mean, his chin isn't particulary prominent at all.
  • Why do I care about 1991 (Score:2, Insightful)

    by madshot (621087) on Saturday February 03 2007, @12:33PM (#17874326)
    (http://www.linuxonly.net/ | Last Journal: Friday October 14 2005, @01:34PM)
    Why do I really care about 1991. Do you think that will actually change the release of Windows Vista or Microsoft domination of the world technology market? How screwed would the world be if Microsoft closed its doors one day because they get tired of being a business that is always fighting legal battles? Imagine a world without Microsoft. 911 tries to dispatch an ambulance but they can't activate their copy of windows to run the dispatch software because Microsoft closed its doors. A automotive company tries to install Quickbooks but it requires the latest Windows .NET updates before it will install, but they can't seem to get them from Microsoft because the website is down. Like it or not, Microsoft is a dominating force in the world. I only wish I had thought of it first :-) So when I read documents from 1990 and 1991 I say "how much money is this costing tax payers?" and "at what point will Microsoft just say screw it and close their doors." Peace
  • Wow - Dr DOS test was justified??? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2007, @12:46PM (#17874414)
    http://www.iowaconsumercase.org/011907/PLEX1025.pd f [iowaconsumercase.org]

    This looks like a document about internal testing of Dr DOS, and it looks like they had good reasons to warn people who were about to run windows on Dr DOS (as in - the crashes you will experience are their product, not ours)
  • Ipod (Score:2, Interesting)

    by TheUni (1007895) on Saturday February 03 2007, @12:50PM (#17874446)
    I find this one especially funny: http://www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/8000/PX0863 6.pdf [iowaconsumercase.org]

    "I bought the high end creative labs portable player. It was the NOMAD Jukebox Zen Xtra I have to tell you my experience with our software and this device is really terrible. I expect you already knew this but I had not personally experienced it. Now I spent the time last night really playing with it. My goodness it is terrible. What I don't understand though is that I was told that the new Creative Labs device would be comparible to Apple. This is so not the case"
    (13 year-old girl emphasis mine)

    This was a device already on the market that they endorsed. They knew they were slaughtered from the start and still unleashed playsforsure on us. Funny to see them admit how bad some of their own stuff is.
  • by macaroo (847109) on Saturday February 03 2007, @01:13PM (#17874652)
    N/T
  • Jim Allchin (Score:1)

    by Andrei D (965217) on Saturday February 03 2007, @01:19PM (#17874724)
    Jim Allchin worked for Microsoft for over 16 years before retiring in early 2007, on the day that Microsoft officially released the Windows Vista operating system to consumers. Today, Jim Allchin dedicates most of his time to evangelize Apple on Slashdot. You probably know him as Whiney Mac Fanboy [slashdot.org]
  • FWIW (Score:3, Interesting)

    by inode_buddha (576844) on Saturday February 03 2007, @01:50PM (#17874942)
    (Last Journal: Thursday October 02 2003, @03:46PM)
    FWIW, the folks at GrokLaw [groklaw.net] have dug out copies of the Bill Gates deposition videos from the anti-trust trial. It's a pretty big download, but funny and sad as hell when you look back at it.
    • Re:FWIW by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Saturday February 03 2007, @05:41PM
  • by Viceroy Potatohead (954845) on Saturday February 03 2007, @02:40PM (#17875402)
    (http://localhost/)
    Bill Gates: http://www.iowaconsumercase.org/122106/PLEX0_6114. pdf [iowaconsumercase.org]

    "Who should Avie be working with? Do we have a clear plan on what we want Apple to do to undermine Sun?"

    The Apple guy's complaint back to Bill that IE4 is screwing with the .mov extension is priceless. I wonder how many similar emails Novell will send because of their deal.
  • Confidential email (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Duncan3 (10537) on Saturday February 03 2007, @02:41PM (#17875412)
    (http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/)
    When will these guys figure out all email is public?

    If you want to scheme, that's what golf courses are for.
  • can you imagine? (Score:1)

    by micktaggart (1047954) on Saturday February 03 2007, @03:11PM (#17875676)
    I am still a very big fan of us putting the source code of the key parts of IE out on the Web (without commercial reproduction rights) so that Universities who want to "extend" browsers use ours for their experiments. -- Bill Gates (1995) http://www.iowaconsumercase.org/122106/PLEX0_2494. pdf [iowaconsumercase.org]
  • by allenw (33234) on Saturday February 03 2007, @04:36PM (#17876352)
    (Last Journal: Tuesday October 02, @09:54AM)
    In this [iowaconsumercase.org] document, they talk about leaking information to "Spencer or Cringely" to continue the smear campaign against Digital Research. The referenced Cringely is likely Robert X. Cringely [xent.com] (and confirms a lot of what I've suspected about that particular column anyway). But who is Spencer?
  • Microsoft Confidential (Score:5, Interesting)

    by tiny69 (34486) on Saturday February 03 2007, @05:05PM (#17876578)
    (http://www.linuxdoc.org/ | Last Journal: Friday January 04 2002, @04:57AM)
    http://www.google.com/search?q=+site%3Amicrosoft.c om+%22microsoft+confidential%22&btnG=Search [google.com]

    I always enjoy seeing proprietary markings on a company's documents. It makes finding them with a search engine much easier. Other fun search terms:

    site:microsoft.com "Microsoft Internal Use Only"
    site:microsoft.com "Internal Use Only"
    site:microsoft.com NDA
  • by Master of Transhuman (597628) on Saturday February 03 2007, @05:56PM (#17876994)
    one of the "research" organizations - I think it was IDC - to produce a "comparison" between Linux and Windows that was favorable to Windows, after Gartner told them they wouldn't do it.

    Then they argued over whether they should ADMIT that Microsoft sponsored the study because they KNEW that admitting it would blow the game - so they argued for LYING about it.

    Here's a quote from the story: [itnews.com.au]

    In an email dated 1 November, 2002, Kevin Johnson, now the head of Windows, wrote: "I don't like it to be public on the doc that we sponsored it because I don't think the outcome is as favourable as we had hoped. I just don't like competitors using it as ammo against us. It is easier if it doesn't mention that we sponsored it."

    And another:

    And the month before, Houston wrote Johnson a message that intimated pressure had been put on IDC to tweak the report so it would put Microsoft in a better light. "I hate to put it like this, but at this point, IDC is done negotiating with us. We have moved them quite a bit already, but they are now holding the line, saying that if we want the names of their 'big' analysts on the report, this is it."
  • Dumb question? (Score:2)

    by pivo (11957) on Saturday February 03 2007, @06:40PM (#17877242)
    I haven't used windows at all yet this century :) so maybe that's why I don't recognize the 'LH' Allchin is referring to in the directly linked document for this story, context being: "We need a simple fast storage system. LH is a pig and I don't see any solution to this problem." What's 'LH' refer to? thanks!
  • yet they can't write memos worth a damn. The one from Allchin is atrocious. If I were to write a memo to Bill Gates, I would at least proof read it. Of course, the threats I would insert into such a memo would probably have far worse consequences than a few grammatical errors.
  • by AlHunt (982887) on Saturday February 03 2007, @08:30PM (#17877882)
    (http://www.alhunt.com/)

    If we are to rise to the chsllenqe of Linux and Apple,
    Yesterday there was this story [slashdot.org] about a Gates interview where he mentioned Linux before Apple when talking about the competition. I wonder if Linux is a bigger threat in their minds than Apple?
  • by Penguinoflight (517245) on Saturday February 03 2007, @09:58PM (#17878292)
    (http://www.afn.org/~afn31208 | Last Journal: Saturday January 01 2005, @11:56PM)
    Better order that apple.
  • by ap0 (587424) on Saturday February 03 2007, @10:06PM (#17878328)
    http://www.iowaconsumercase.org/010807/PLEX_7264.p df [iowaconsumercase.org] From the Microsoft Co-President of the Platforms and Services Division to Bill G and Steve B
  • Interesting.. (Score:1)

    by Dakrin1 (220684) on Sunday February 04 2007, @04:39AM (#17879866)
    "we are far from done on the browser front. We are--at 30% but Netscape has shipped a good product far ahead of us and still verysavvy and veryInterested in kaeping their stock price up. We need to execute on 1E4. surpass 50% share, and be setup to continue the share gain via great distribubon and product before we pull the plug."

    http://www.iowaconsumercase.org/122106/PLEX0_6092. pdf [iowaconsumercase.org]

    When he says 'pull the plug' is he talking about stopping development of IE once they reached a certain marketshare and netscape was dead? Kinda like they did..?
  • by Snarfiorix (1001357) on Sunday February 04 2007, @07:23AM (#17880420)
    (Last Journal: Saturday June 16, @05:44AM)
    I guess you have them in every company, just recently I was put into the loop of a whole series of mails between managers where the subject was lil' AOL' me.

    It started between two Service Delivery Managers, one being my direct superior. Apparently the other SDL was not too happy that one of her guys needed to pick up some work. A whole thread going back an forward for a week, where language became more colourful between the 2 SDL's with about every manager you could find in the company address book on cc. When my manager finally got a detailed mail about everything I didn't do or did wrong, with dates and details of specific tasks, he forwarded the lot to me (without even a 1 on 1 chat or comment in the mail).

    The last mail in the thread was portraying me as a lazy, for no good employee and it wasn't until I looked at the dates mentioned that I got a big grin on my face... The dates mentioned where dates I was on holiday, or out of the country on training. So I replied to that mail, giving my take on it and put the whole circus on cc, including HR.

    After that, my phone didn't stop ringing; managers I never heard of, apologising their arses off and my mailbox overflowing with likewise apologies and pleas not to take this up any further with HR or involve anyone else. It got so crazy that I sent out a mail to every one, asking them kindly to stop doing that, because it was being a hindrance in getting my job done and clogging up my mailbox. "Accidentally" I cc'd my business manager in it.

    Next day there was a very nice meeting with coffee and cake and a whole bunch of managers I never met. (Including my business mangers' boss)

    I'm sure that if I posted the whole thread and the resulting memo, it would make a good story, especially as I work for a rather large IT company that just recently had their wrists smacked for not being as ethical as they want to make every one believe they are.

    The point is, that companies are run by people and people come with human behaviour, resulting in the ability to say or write emotionally motivated statements when emotion gets the best of them. The MS mails are very entertaining, but no different in behaviour that I have seen in many companies. Managers are human, despite their attempts to hide it, and thankfully they supply us with a wide range of entertainment while keeping lawyers on the job.

    Who doesn't love a juicy scandal?

  • by Lethyos (408045) on Sunday February 04 2007, @03:24PM (#17882978)
    (Last Journal: Saturday March 08 2003, @03:00PM)

    I just found that when I load http://www.iowaconsumercase.org/010807/PLEX_7264.p df [iowaconsumercase.org] in Preview.app on Mac OS X, it appears simply to be a scanned copy of a print-out (not only from the distortion but also it is obvious pixelated as you zoom in), but I am able to select, copy, and paste the text. When this PDF was made, was some sort of OCR process performed that includes the results or did Apple quietly introduce this functionality into their viewer?

  • by c0d3h4x0r (604141) on Monday February 05 2007, @12:44AM (#17886604)
    (http://c0d3h4x0r.0catch.com/ | Last Journal: Friday February 03 2006, @06:21PM)
    Allchin's memo about "LH" (Longhorn, aka Vista) was sent in January 2004, several months before "The Reset" that occurred midway through Vista development. He's referring to the earlier, pre-reset Longhorn builds, which were indeed resource hogs (partly due to a C#-developed shell that tied into the SQL-based WinFS filesystem). That memo was probably the beginning of the line of discussion that eventually led to the reset, including the decision to drop WinFS and recode the shell without .NET.

    You actually have to give Allchin credit for at least noticing and caring enough about how off-course things had gotten to raise hell and pull a U-turn.

  • Re:Non-PDF? (Score:4, Funny)

    Most of those email are plain-text. Is it really necessary to pdf them? Why don't they print them out, then take a picture of the printout on a wooden table, and post *that* to the web.
    [ Parent ]
    • Re:Non-PDF? by aymanh (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @11:45AM
      • Re:Non-PDF? by JudicatorX (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @12:05PM
        • Re:Non-PDF? by aymanh (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @12:38PM
    • Re:Non-PDF? (Score:4, Informative)

      by DaveM753 (844913) on Saturday February 03 2007, @12:19PM (#17874202)
      (http://www.yeahblah.com/)
      Many courts across the country require PDF format for exhibits. That way, exhibits can be retrieved from court websites and emailed to and fro by counsel and court.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Non-PDF? by adnonsense (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @02:00PM
      • Re:Non-PDF? by lastchance_000 (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @04:14PM
    • Re:Non-PDF? by shis-ka-bob (Score:2) Saturday February 03 2007, @04:05PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:Non-PDF? (Score:2)

    by physicsnick (1031656) on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:35AM (#17873858)
    Why on earth would you ban PDFs?

    If it's just a matter of hating Adobe Reader, there are free open-source alternatives out there.
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Non-PDF? (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:36AM (#17873870)
    The PDFs are just embedded images scanned from printouts of the emails (your tax dollars at work in the court system). Google OCR is your friend. [google.com]

    Unless you don't "allow google in your biz" either? Microsoft search may have something similar but I've not yet seen the email where they say they're going to copy the google feature.
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Non-PDF? (Score:5, Funny)

    by nacturation (646836) on Saturday February 03 2007, @11:37AM (#17873874)
    (Last Journal: Thursday May 24, @01:08AM)

    Can anyone find any non-PDF versions of these? I don't allow PDF's in my biz...
    Yet you apparently allow Slashdot. Excellent policy.
     
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Non-PDF? (Score:2)

    by MindStalker (22827) <[ude.usf] [ta] [nesralj]> on Saturday February 03 2007, @12:12PM (#17874148)
    (Last Journal: Tuesday September 13 2005, @03:45PM)
    Seriously? While there are some security flaws in Adobe Reader. PDF is now an open spec. You can find many open source PDF readers that do not allow the level of scripting that Acrobat does.
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Non-PDF? (Score:3)

    by Jim Hall (2985) on Saturday February 03 2007, @12:31PM (#17874300)
    (http://www.freedos.org/jhall/)

    If you don't allow PDF into your network, you might try an online converter. I haven't tried it, but I see that Adobe has one [adobe.com].

    [ Parent ]
  • Re:old news (Score:1)

    by dagamer34 (1012833) on Saturday February 03 2007, @04:09PM (#17876146)
    Since Allichin retired on Wednesday, looks like he can buy that Mac now. Maybe Jobs had a special one he's been saving all these years.
    [ Parent ]
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:Non-PDF? (Score:2)

    by nurb432 (527695) on Saturday February 03 2007, @08:10PM (#17877766)
    (http://slashdot.org/~nurb432/ | Last Journal: Friday August 27 2004, @03:24PM)
    You dont do much business do you.

    PDF is pretty much a standard format these days.

     
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Non-PDF? (Score:2)

    by ickoonite (639305) on Sunday February 04 2007, @06:05AM (#17880178)
    (http://garethpotter.com/)
    Can anyone find any non-PDF versions of these? I don't allow PDF's in my biz...

    You sad, strange little man.

    Illiterate little man, I should say. The plural of PDF is not PDF's.

    Idiot.
    [ Parent ]
  • 9 replies beneath your current threshold.