UK Schools Will Fight Cyberbullying 273
Plutonite writes "The BBC is running a story on UK schools being told by the education minister to fight cyberbullying, by which they mean bullying with the aid of (network-based) technology. Schools have been told to confiscate mobile phones, and, more controversially, to investigate and get material removed from personal social-networking sites. Are schools supposed to be doing this as an extension of their duty to prevent physical bullying in school, or is this is yet another example of governmental intervention where it is not due? Should kids be brought up knowing that their life on the web is being documented and controlled by people other than their parents?"
Personal experience in the UK (Score:5, Insightful)
I was bullied extensively in the early part of my school life. My parents reported it to the teacher and when that didn't work, we went to the Headmaster at the school. The abuse did not stop.
So I changed schools - and I got yet more abuse. We went through the same procedures again and again and again and it was no use. The teachers didn't want to know.
I finally made it to High School and then I decided this time, it wasn't going to happen again. Some kid tried it on and I opted to belt him one in the nose. His nose was thoroughly broken and he was out of school for a week.
After that, I was set for the rest of school. Nobody really tried anything on after that. You see the athaphy that I ran in to in my earlier episodes worked to my advantage now. Precisely nothing was done to me and my schooling carried on as normal.
It seems that these days we attach an "e-" or a "cyber-" on to a pre-existing social problem and suddenly everyone treats the issue as urgent . The problem with such initiatives is there fail to realise that this is a human problem first and a technological problem a distant second.
The way to deal with bulling in schools is in my view is very simple. The punishment should be swift, harsh and feared. They should be charged with assault or harassment in a full criminal court and ordered to do a suitable amount of community service. Failure to comply should immediately mean jail-time which should be served in school holidays.
It's a pity that the type of people who bully are the sorts who have violence all around them at home. As such, the only thing they understand is violence. A short, sharp shock may be enough to put them back on the straight and narrow coupled with some kind of therapy. I do not believe such people are beyond help but if left to there own devices, they will become the criminals of tomorrow.
Simon
Re:Personal experience in the UK (Score:5, Insightful)
If someone was harassing me electronically for their own amusement it would not be long before I'd jump them, sorry if it's not very politically correct for kids to beat each other up, but to a kid the unreliable PC solutions are of little help. Also some of the abuse can be dealt with electronically, someone sending you terrible message, put them on ignore. (many cell phones will let you ignore numbers too)
Bullies tend to become corrupt police officers and abusive middle managers. bullies become criminals when they are too poor to afford the education and influence necessary to have a career where their abusive nature can be tolerated.
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In many cases physical violence at school is assault, and real cops and real courts can become involved. But generally the victim is convinced by the school to not press charges and the school deals with the student themselves. Dependi
Youtube moment (Score:2)
Yeah! Now THAT'S what I call a "Youtube moment!" Post the torrent when you get a chance...
(yes, I'm kidding.)
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Re:Personal experience in the UK (Score:5, Insightful)
My own anecdote: I was a little turd in school - nothing serious, but a typical wise-ass. One teacher, one time, lifted me by the hair on the back of my head - I deserved it - and that was it for screwing around in his class. I learned. Kids today learn a different lesson: that they can do whatever they want and no one can touch them. Wrong lesson to teach, in my view.
Sorry you had to endure that crap as a youth.
Even more powerful than punishment... (Score:2)
Social Acceptance. And that can be a knife and a shield. Kids who are socially accepted, even in difference social circles are significantly less likely to be bullied. And if we can teach our children that bullying is not socially acceptable, the bullies themselves will face losing their social acceptance.
Which do you think is more terrifying to your average teenage; losing their phone, or not having anyone to call?
-Rick
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Then the teachers would have their own, and the schools their own.
Then, everybody will have mics and telemetry wiring up their ass. Then, kids will hone their long-range assaults out of victim camera view. (Until they attack a geek who was "wired into the system" and every camera and mi
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The way to deal with bulling in schools is in my view is very simple. The punishment should be swift, harsh and feared. They should be charged with assault or harassment in a full criminal court and ordered to do a suitable amount of community service. Failure to comply should immediately mean jail-time which should be served in school holidays.
So what you're saying, if he punches you, he should go to jail. But if you punch him, you should face no consequences? If it's a self-defense argument, what are
Re:Personal experience in the UK (Score:4, Interesting)
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"A short, sharp shock may be enough to put them back on the straight and narrow coupled with some kind of therapy."
Boy, you don't mince words.
I infer that a 45,000v, 2,500 Watt, 256 Hz cattle prod to the forehead will swift, harsh, fearsome, short enough, sharp enough, and certainly shocking enough to jolt their asses onto a straight and narrow posture...
zero tolerance (Score:2)
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I completely agree. "Cyberbullying" sounds hip and modern, so everyone is jumping on the bandwagon while ignoring the problem of real, physical bullying. So someone posted a picture of you on a Myspace web page? Big Fucking
Re:Personal experience in the UK (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Personal experience in the UK (Score:4, Funny)
Just wire your power supply to your tinfoil hat.
Not everyone has a tinfoil hat, you insensitive cl (Score:2)
For those of you folks so ill equipped, I suggest just taking one of the red wires from your computer's power supply and one black one, plug that puppy in and stick the leads on your tongue.
(May void warranty, especially if it's an Apple product. Not suitable for persons under 18 years of age. YMMV.)
Re:Not everyone has a tinfoil hat, you insensitive (Score:2)
Teacher: (turns dial up to full)
Bully: (panting) My name IS!!!... Geyuh-hooo-hoo-hoo Simon... Van...Gelder.... HIYAM!!!... Geyuh-hooo-hoo-hoo... the resident.... booohhhleeee... Geyuh-hooo-hoo-hoo
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I think we should really make it clear to kids, that what they post about themselves, and others WILL become something that is nye impossible to remove once place on the internet. It really is worse than the proverbial "permanent record" we were all threatened with growing up. In this case...it IS. And it can follow them through adulthood, possibly to haunt them in job applications, etc.
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What they post about themselves is only half the problem. With CyberBullying, it's what other people post about them that is the problem. That stuff will also be hard to erase.
B.t.w. There was a recent slashdot article about a company that could bury negative reviews about products, similar to search engine optimization. I
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Human nature, bud. People respect strength and confidence, they'll pick on those weaker than them. Today that might get him suspended or expelled, but I wouldn't convict the bulli
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He tried, multiple times, but you conveniently ignored that for some reason.
Many people do not have the means to do so anyways. So only the elite should be free from bullying?
So should bullying be left as is? Simply accepted as par for the course?
I was bullied in public school. I went to a school where most of the kids were bussed in, I was amongst the minority that actually lived in the area. We all had it rough, and it was a nice neighborhood
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Bullies are bullies because they go after targets of opportunity; people that they see as weak. Make yourself not weak; or at least not worth it and they'll leave you alone.
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Personally, I can't wait to see how "zero tolerance" goes up against the castle doctrine law we have here in Florida... esp. since I have kids
Re:Personal experience in the UK (Score:5, Insightful)
THANK YOU for the perfect answer!!
I too remember a time when Mom sent me off to school.....with aspirins in my pocket in case my headache came back or allergy meds if I needed them. I remember taking my new pocket knife to school to show my friends...no problems there, till I got caught carving initials onto something...even then, was given back to me at the end of the day. I remember drawing flip cartoons and notebook pages full of army men, and explosions....and in HS writing about some things in creative writing classes, which back then got an "A" for originality, but, today apparently would get you sent for serious counselling, and put you on a 'watch list'.
Yep...I remember those days. For some reason, sure we'd get into a fight...but, no one got a weapon pulled on them, and it certainly didn't occur to us to come in school with high powered guns (even though many of us had ready access to guns) and mow our classmates down.
Funny that....
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Yes, because the bullying he suffered through was clearly *nobody's fault* except his own. Get a clue. Instead of blaming the victims, why don't you punish the guilty?
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Maybe he's a bully himself, and is trying to justify his actions ? Blaming the victim is a known psychological defense in violent criminals. And of course no one wants to admit that they are guilty of anything bad.
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If you want to ensure that your son doesn't get bullied, then enroll him into a good martial arts class; the kind which teaches people how to beat the living crap out of people, rather than sports or philosophies. The sad fact is that not being able to defend yourself makes you
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I can't disagree with you at all, however, perhaps I may e
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Then the dork comes back and (Score:2)
The lesson we hear is the dork was imbalanced.
The lesson that Darwin teaches is cause & effect. You keep fucking with someone and create a no holds barred environment, you get a no holds barred response.
Kids shooting up schools is not good nor am I endorsing it, but then again neither am I endorsing the explosion that occurs when you smoke at a petrol station.
Re:Personal experience in the UK (Score:4, Insightful)
Bullshit.
I've seen plenty of kids who -tried- standing up for themselves, they took a swing at the bully, and guess what?
Sometimes it doesn't connect. Just more fuel for the bully to mock with.
Sometimes it connects and the bully shrugs it off. Maybe it wasn't such a great idea to haul off and hit someone who has 30 pounds and 10" of height on you, after all.
Sometimes it connects and the bully is knocked on his ass and even humiliated and then he and his three friends return the favor at the next opportunity, and the one after that, and the one after that...
The little guy getting bullied pulling a heroic move out of his ass and dropping the bully on his ass, ending the cycle, and being accepted by the group is a bullshit solution. Yes it happens, yes it can work, but life isn't hollywood and the little guy doesn't always get his hollywood ending when he grows a spine. Sometimes, in the real world, they just break his spine.
The Reena Virk swarming and murder for example was believed precipitated by some of the stuff Reena had done in a misguided attempt to establish herself as tough, trying to break the cycle of victimization she was stuck in.
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should they know... (Score:2, Insightful)
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Absolutely correct. Kids should be taught at an early age that _everything_ they write on the web - in a forum, in a facebook, in an archived mailing list, anywhere else - can, and probably will, be copied, cached, indexed and indexed again and made available to everyone through search engines like Google. They should know that everything they publish under their real name, and most likely some that they don't, can be connected to them and viewed by their friends, parents, grandparents, and any future girlf
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Adjustments (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not going to tell UK people how to raise their children and they're not going to tell me how to raise mine. You can go ahead and prepare your kid for what your government is going to force onto them anyways. I personally am going to teach my kids to question everything. Question me, question the government and question any institutions. I'm going to teach them how to do it objectively and how to improve themselves as well as the said institution. And you know what? Maybe my kids will be able to reverse what my generation has let slip out of control. Maybe not. Depends on how you raise your kids. So the question I'm really interested in is how are you going to raise your kids so I know whether I have to prepare mine to be monitored their entire life or prepare them for something we all used to enjoy.
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Why? Because everyone is born a child-rearing expert? I think society should be encouraging parents to seek advice, not shun them for it.
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Not saying the GGP is in that category as I do not know for sure...but they very much could be given the implied attitude towards others seeking advice.
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The problem is, that eventually your crotchfruit are going to be members of the society that the rest of us live in. Unfortunately, I'm not sure there's a satisfactory way to resolve that while not interfering in the parenting of others.
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I suggested no such thing, rather I said that the unwillingness to ask for input is likely one of the major contributors to poor parenting. Plugging your ears and screaming "na na na na" when someone gives you a suggestion is not the way to do things. You're far better off collecting a body of information and deciding what works best for you.
I also
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There, fixed that for you.
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That's a stupid remark, you should be ashamed of yourself..
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This is the stupidest thing I have EVER heard. Children have minds of their own, even if you are the best parent in the world. People are born with a law of being (ala goethe)
Goethe argued in his scientific works that a "formative impulse", which he said is operative in every organism, causes an organism to form itself according to its own distinct laws, and therefore rational laws or fiats could not be imposed at all f
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Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
Kids should know that the Internet is not a playground with safety bumpers on every sharp corner. It is for adults, and there are people out there that will monitor everything they can, people will take advantage of every opportunity. The sad fact is that not enough adults know this yet, so teaching kids about it is a good start at the education that should come with the purchase of Internet services.
Don't Bully: Government hates competition. (Score:5, Insightful)
When there's insults to be dished out, you will only insult each other using the approved insults!
And when there's abuse to be documented, who'll be documenting the abuse? Who'll be watching the watchers? Not you, Citizen!
When we point the camera at you, it's for your safety. When you point the camera at us, it's an offensive weapon.
Don't bully. Your government hates the competition.
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Cyber-bullying never seemed like a real problem to me anyway, I have never met anyone who has experienced it (YMMV). Most social networking sites let you delete comments and the like from your profile, so the user already has the tools t
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The individual sensitivity tolerances of the CMOS sensor pixels can be used as a kind of a watermark. They are luckily not being recorded and paired with the identity of the camera owner. Yet.
Such solution would also effectively disallow open-firmware cameras (and open-firmware cellphones with such cameras), turning them into instruments of crime be
Nothing will come of it (Score:2, Insightful)
Also, even if social networking sites were affected, wouldn't the "cyberbullies" just find another medium, i.e. AIM/YIM/MSN/IRC/Insert your own acrony
Stupid is as stupid does... (Score:2)
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It is not bullying a kid to stop him from bullying others.
To warn him that his actions will have consequences. That entry into adulthood demands that you learn to respect some minimal standards of civilized behavior. That is also part of learning.
Perhaps a more important part of learning than what you will find in the textbooks.
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E-bullies? Seriously?? (Score:2, Informative)
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You do your kids no better favor by not warning them that others may step in to protect their own.
To defend the most vulnerable.
That there are lines that cannot be crossed without paying a price.
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do you interpret the fact that rights are being violated as evidence that the rights don't exist?
To the last question (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, they should, because it's true. Why lie to the poor tykes?
Derr (Score:2)
No, let's lie to them and tell them that only the tooth fairy and Santa Claus knows anything about their public online info...
~S
i (Score:2, Interesting)
Is Slashdot included? (Score:4, Funny)
Teacher: "Now young Sebastian, while I admire your interest in communist era Russia, I'm not sure that image you linked to is really relevant to technology."
Student: "You must be new here, mod parent down, imagine a Beowulf cluster of those..."
what right or responsibility? (Score:2)
Another well disguised troll?? (Score:3, Funny)
I dunno about an article that quotes a "Mr Balls" about "happy slapping".
Not a troll, unfortunately... (Score:2)
I live in the UK, and our minister in charge of education really is called Mr Balls. I have to remind myself not to snigger every time I hear about him.
"Happy slapping" is the act of assaulting someone while one of your friends films it, usually on a camera phone, the aim being to send the recording to all your other friends to prove how tough you are (or something like that)...
Life isn't new (Score:2)
Government censorship (Score:2)
Fscking George Bush.. leave us alone!
Semantics (Score:4, Insightful)
educate, educate, educate (Score:2)
Couple more things they need to watch out for (Score:3, Insightful)
I've also heard there's this new fangled thing called paper that can be used to send nasty comments to people anonymously! Poo has also been known to be used in this manner, while sitting on a doorstep. So just remove paper, pens, hands, poo, and doors from the environment and our children can finally be safe!
As much as I applaud any attempt to improve the quality of a child's education, attacking the tools they use for bulling isn't going to do anything to the root causes of it. However, sending the kids to an island and having them fight to the death for our amusement....that could work.
Remember: This is the UK, not the US. (Score:4, Interesting)
When considering government interference with free speech and balancing this with libel and other criminal written speech, please remember that the schools and government in question are in the UK.
The UK government does NOT have a constitutional guarantee of a right to free speech and freedom of the press. Its libel laws are quite different from those of the US as well. (It's one of the major differences between the legal systems of the two - in the US truth is an absolute defense aganst claims of defamation, and "public figures" have an extra burden of proving deliberate malace when bringing a charge.)
Now the question was about whether such intervention was PROPER. IMHO that doesn't vary as you cross The Pond - though others may disagree. But what's LEGAL, what's standard governmental practice, and the theoretical underpinnings behind decisions and reasoning about them DO differ drastically. So what the courts will let the government get away with, and how to go about getting them to force the government to back off, will also differ greatly.
You answer your own question... (Score:2)
Yes, obviously, because it is.
Experience in UK - my child in US (Score:5, Insightful)
My first point is simply that I am glad British school might be doing something about bullying. Although we can debate whether the solution is entirely legal or appropriate. But the problem is very real.
Now to cyberbullying...
My daughter was the very first victim of cyberbullying at her rather elite private school here in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. (Yes a personal detail.) Pretty bad, although could have been worse. Her teachers cared and tried to take action against the students involved. The administration did squat and hung us out to dry. She handled it well, but over the course of that year (because her parents took it very seriously) she was ostracized, and quickly students and administrators alike got into a "blame the victim" pattern. Her grades plummeted. Often talked about killing herself, yadda yadda yadda. Friendships (such as between us and other parents) ended over this because they would not hold their children accountable. (In a new school now, thriving, grades shot up to A's and 100's. Go figure.)
Again - my point is simply "cyberbullying is also a serious and real problem that causes real observable damage".
Whether such policies are legal, enforceable, and so on - that is quite debatable. The website provider (a kind of Facebook for kids) actually took the site down when we complained (we think). Good for them. Violation of policy. The school took the "well, not our network/computers, therefore we can't do anything" line. (Photos of my child were clearly taken at school. Uh...) Technically might be correct. I don't know. My final point is, "Even if schools cannot legally police and enforce every last dang website or IM or whatever... *something* needs to be done by *someone*". The problem is bloody real and so is the damage this kind of filth.
I appreciate and sympathize with concerns about privacy and excessive government intrusion and all that. I really do. But what then shall we do? Unless we want to deny the seriousness of this problem?
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Sue? I know the kneejerk reaction on slashdot is lawsuits are always bad, but if the bullying reaches a severe enough status, and the school unreasonably refuses to try and fix it, there are a bunch of federal and state claims open to the bullied kids and their parents.
*cyber* bully? (Score:3, Insightful)
Stop being a baby. Geesh.
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It may be "just words", but let's face it, the "sticks and stones" argument never amounted to anything much, not when we were kids, and not among adults either (why do you think we have slander/libel laws?). Words DO have an ef
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Im sorry but anyone that is bugged by a virtual bully is a wuss and needs serious mental help and will never be able to function as a normal human in society..
Now, if you want to talk about a person in your face screaming at you, sure, pure words can be effective against lesser people as its harder to walk away if they follow
The root problem (Score:4, Insightful)
Politicians are old. Tony Blair was considered to be a 'youthful' PM coming to power in his 40s. The technology that shapes our lives is young, and constantly evolving. I'm only 26, grew up nuts about computers, and already I feel as if I'm starting to slip behind the curve, its frightening to me so its probably terrifying to them.
The country is run by technically illiterate near-pensioners who are slapping e- and cyber- prefixes on everything in a fit of desperation. The result is idiotic initiatives such as this, which aside from being a waste of time and money, present an opportunity for the more savvy political players lurking in the shadows to invade peoples privacy and crush their civil liberties.
From a techie point of view, Gordon Brown might as well be Leonid Brezhnev. A relic of a past era making crappy decisions based on the principles of his own time, without regard for the reality of the present. Young people in the UK need to kick out the gerontocracy and start making informed technology policy.
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"Cyberbullying" (Score:2)
-b
Are you serious? (Score:2)
Is this a serious question? Really?
A serious question is 'How can we stop bullying?'. The above is just crap.
Lots of love,
Ex-bullied.
Re:How do you "cyberbully" someone (Score:5, Insightful)
They're filling your inbox with spam.
They're spamming your blog.
They're making up websites with your picture and filling it with false "confessions."
They're making up IM accounts and messaging your friends with the same "confessions."
There's a dozen more ways kids can be cruel online. It doesn't have to be directed at you while you're logged in to harm you.
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All 4 of your examples are illegal and carry both civil and criminal penalties. Why does that have anything to do with school?
Those carry penalties IN LAW. In practice, it takes an informed victim to exercise that legal protection. Does that sound like a middle-schooler to you? I don't expect every parent to understand that, but I think it's reasonable for teachers to be aware of the rules of the game and step in as defenders of kids they see getting attacked online.
What penalties they set is debatable
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That's just bullshit, plain and simple. All it requires is a victim willing to seek out help."
I think those two positions are pretty close to each other, why would someone not be willing to seek help? maybe because they think that they have no rights where this is concerned. Although, to be fair, you pretty much don't. I've had a few people set up a website about me saying untrue things about me (which earnt me at least one
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Exactly. Just think of the horror, they could circumcise your e-peen!
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Why post AC?
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You have been caught pitching racial and sexual insults to kids on a public forum.
You don't know or don't care that is inappropriate behavior? Then it is time for your Headmaster to step in.
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Look, kids need to have bad experiences and subsequently have guidance dealing with them themselves in order to learn. They do NOT need to be protected from every single thing that might possibly cause them to get even slightly upset. Because that raises a generation of entitled little
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My sister (at school then in the UK) had a bunch of kids create a Bebo account for her, post a bunch of comments about other people at her school and totally ruined her social life. Emails, phone calls and a vist to their office in Ca by a family member later Bebo had singularly REFUSED to do anything about the issue.
So a bunch of her so-called "friends" shunned her because of anonymous, unfounded, unverifiable comments on some web page somewhere? Sounds like she didn't lose much.
"Please oh please, Be
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Home schooling (Score:2)