Why Microsoft Can't Compete With iTunes 249
A reader submitted "Why Microsoft Can't Compete With iTunes which is an interesting op-ed piece about the differences between the two companies, but also the intersection with a different type of business like that of television. I've read some of the same arguements before, but this piece ties it up nicely together."
Antitrust settlement (Score:2, Offtopic)
- conspicuously repeating the cult-like phrase "recommends Windows XP Professional" in all marketing;
- never advertising PCs sold without an operating system, or with an alternative OS installed;
- applying Windows stickers to all PCs sold, and using a keyboard with a prominent Windows key.
Doesn't this go against the terms of the antitrust settlement with the DOJ?
No. (Score:5, Informative)
Here's the DOJ's lame info site on the settlement:
http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/ms-settle.htm [usdoj.gov]
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Not quite. The US Government could do something quite meaningful if it chose to. This administration, however, chose not to do anything meaningful.
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Don't turn the whole "politicians whoring themselves for money" into a partisan issue, because they all do it, and pretending like it's partisan just distracts people from the problem.
Error 504 (slashdotted) coral cache link (Score:2)
When I get back from my meeting, I might think of something more useful to say.
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So.. what.. Microsoft can't sell anything anymore?
settlement = speech ban? (Score:2)
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2. This is questionable, but there manufacturers that sell PCs with your choice of Windows or a Linux distro. I'm not aware of any big OEMs that offer PCs without an OS, however.
3. I believe windows stickers are applied to all PCs sold with windows, which makes sense. Regardless, a sticker doesn't require you to use the operating system. Same with the keyboard. I'm typing this on a machine running Kubuntu, and I use the "w
linux pre-installed and no OS installed machines. (Score:2)
For your point #2 you can check this list of manufacturers that sell pc's with Linux pre-installed and with no os installed [lxer.com].
Somebody tell me quick... (Score:4, Funny)
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Sapce Station? (Score:2)
I'm caught in a tractor beam!
AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
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How about... (Score:2, Interesting)
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Ummmmmmm... "Oppose us and we will crush you"?
Re:How about... (Score:4, Insightful)
1) Microsoft could have easily designed the Zune to be a better MP3 player; build in a microphone for active noise cancelation and automatic volume adjustment, and provided an API for games, applications, and synchronization, and accessories.
How about an easier to use product?
1) Microsoft could have easily had the Zune do wireless sync; bring it near your host computer and everything gets synched. No plugging necessary!
Apple CONTINUOUSLY creates incentives for people to upgrade and replace their iPods by releasing better iPods:
1) Better battery life
2) Smaller
3) More features
4) Cheaper
Marketing only goes as far as product quality; a poor product won't last more than one generation. Apple is on seven now.
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Active noise cancellation does not work when the microphone is three feet away from the speaker. (As it would be when the Zune is on your hip and the earbuds are in your ears.)
Automatic volume adjustment would not only be difficult depending on where you wear your Zune, but potentially dangerous. Unless you are using a known set of headphones the Zun
Actually M$ takes 3 tries at anything (Score:3, Insightful)
It doesn't matter if it's an absolute failure the first time, the second time or even the third time.
Remember windows didn't even catch on until 3.11
By that time, they had learned, bought or stolen enough tech expertise to score a win.
Then they leveraged their position to strong-arm sellers (not buyers) into carrying it.
But this time, I am not sure that they can win because of their prior 'success.'
The battle for the desktop was won but it has turned out to be a stright
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Re:How about... (Score:4, Insightful)
1.x and 2.x were text or low-resolution graphics. They never took off.
3.0 brought the graphical UI and some applications to take advantage of that.
3.1 brought a 32-bit harddrive driver, which improved performance. It also took better advantage of protected mode for memory access.
95 brought pre-emptive multi-tasking and better memory protection. It also brought DirectX and 32-bit hardware drivers across the board. It also came with a TCP/IP stack and brought SMB over TCP. That was a big deal for Windows shops and a big improvement over the netbeui protocol used since DOS 3.3.
NT brought a real security model and none of the backwards compatibility hacks for 16-bit mode that was present in 95.
Win2k improved the stability of NT.
XP brought the stability of NT to home users, and is more compatibile with typical home applications (like games) than 2000 was.
Vista sounds like it's a step backwards, but I haven't seen it myself yet.
98? (n/t) (Score:2)
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Gen 1: iPod vs Creative Nomad, iPod uses 1.8" HDD Nomad uses 3.5" HDD
Gen 2: iPod vs Creative Sleek, iPod uses 1.8" HDD and Nomad uses 2.5" HDD
Gen 3: iPod mini vs Creative Zen micro, iPod uses 1" HDD and Zen uses 1" HDD (8 months later)
Gen 4: iPod vs Creative Vision:M, iPod uses 80gb 1.8" HDD and Zen uses 60gb 1.8" HDD and is nearly twice as thick
Gen 5: iPod shuffle vs Creative Muvo, iPod eschews screen for size
Gen 6: iPod nano vs Creative Zen V, iPod uses flash and Zen uses flash (severa
Have you looked at the AFTERMARKET? (Score:5, Insightful)
The fact that the market is saturated alredy with people who can use iTunes and who own iPods? What is the insentive to switch?
Apple's footprint is extended by the aftermarket, where Zune won't even have one for months or years. I was in CostCo a week ago and was stunned how many portable stereos there are with an iPod cradle. Must have been a dozen, all different manufacturers. While shopping for a new car radio I find lots of them offer an option to hook up your iPod.
Well. Looks like Apple doesn't just have a market, but a solid market. Apple's worst enemy at this point could only be themselves by changing something and screwing these aftermarket partners who provide them with greater value.
Microsoft could only achieve this quickly with some very large incentives ($$$$$$$$) given to manufacturers to adopt their platform and I don't see that happening soon enough for the holiday shopping season (which has already begun, dontcherknow.)
this bit is interesting .. (Score:5, Interesting)
Interestingly, while Microsoft's monopoly power dominates the PC industry, it didn't achieve that position in the same manner as Apple found success with the iPod. This is very important to understanding why Microsoft can't compete with iTunes.
It has everything to do with choice.
More than 80% of Microsoft's revenues for Windows come from corporate volume licensing and OEM copies of Windows bundled with new PCs. That means the company doesn't have to compete to sell a product at retail.
Why corporations CHOOSE microsoft (Score:4, Informative)
Because the big corporation use Windows, all of the smaller firms that buy or sell to the big corporations frequently need to use windows. Sure I could deliver a presentation myself using keynote, but the first time I send it to a corporate client will be the last time with that client. Same thing with sending a document in a "weird" apple font (sure they can open it, but it will look strange--the question will come back "can't you just put it on a PC?".)
The iSeries (iTunes, iMove, iGarageBand) is essentially meaningless in the corporate environment. Apple has pretty much given up any hope of getting more than a pip of share in companies with more than 500 employees. The same thing is somewhat (although not completely) true in the educational market.
The training cost of a new hire who doesn't know how to use Windows/Office is higher than one who does--two identically candidate--one who is ready to go and the other who "gee I've only used a Mac, but boy can I operate GarageBand" which would you hire?
Apple are cool, shiny objects--just keep them at home.
Who I'd hire (Score:2)
I think this point of view might be slipping from dominance. You speak of the population of pre-trained/semi-trained people who can run a windows machine. This is a good thing from the corporate point of view, but at the consumer's end this is what leads to the script-driven tech support system that (to me, at least) is extremely frustrating.
When I call my ISP for support, I want a guy who knows what an SMTP server is exactly, not a guy who asks what vers
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Conversely, Excel runs just fine on OS X -- no reason someone can't use it. And the majority of companies who use singular tools like the grandpar
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I'd look for a 3rd candidate that doesn't need training when moving to a functionally equivalent push n' click program. These other two, tied to a specific OS, don't sound economical in the long run if they need training for every small little thing.
factual not hypothesis .. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not hypothesing this, I am quoting from the article. But I do agree with its sentiments. Do you believe otherwise, that 80% of revenues don't come from volume licensing and OEM licenses and that a large part of Microsofts' current and past sucess is derived from this. This looks to any disinterested observer as factual rather then hypothesis.
was Re:Hypothesizing...
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For example the iPod Mini (Now the Nano and Shuffle), was designed and sold to Compete with the cheaper flash based MP3 Players that their cometitors were producing and were getting a foot hold in. Vs. Microsoft with Windows who makes sure that every PC is sold has windows on it and all advertising saying that it's recommended.
The Differance is A
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Microsoft's ideal position would be to create a ZuneOS that comes pre-installed on mp3 players and locks you into WMP and the Marketplace. That way they don't have to spend any money on hardware -- just licensing the ZuneOS.
But they can't do that, so they're forced to create an entire product themselves -- something they're historically not all th
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Simplistic, mostly wrong, and clearly written by someone who has no understanding of IBM's complete dominance of the US computer industry in the 1980's. When PC's emerged, most corporate IT managers were aghast at the thought of people trying to connect all the
DRM does it (Score:3, Insightful)
If anyone hopes to one day defeat iTunes, they'll have to do it by making music more convenient to listen to, not at least as hard.
That's not the biggest problem. (Score:5, Insightful)
So they've basically written PlaysForSure off as a failure, it would seem -- or at least it looks like it. I don't know what you call a DRM system that you refuse to use on your own products, if not a failure.
But if you read TFA, the reasons for Microsoft's predicted failure are not just that it's hawking a more restrictive DRM system than Apple is (which I'm not sure most people care about) but because their experience just doesn't translate over into the new market. With the exception of the xBox, Microsoft really doesn't know anything about consumer electronics, and their major product is maintained through aggressive marketing agreements that don't allow for any consumer choice. In short, they're crappy at actually getting people to buy their stuff, when they have a choice. Apple, on the other hand, has been fighting an uphill battle for years and knows how to woo people, both via their brains and wallets.
XBOX not profitable (Score:5, Interesting)
With marketing prowess like this, it's very unlikely that they will be able to compete with Apple.
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They expected to make up the difference in game sales, but that hasn't really worked out too well. This was a pretty stupid move on their part. XBOXes are NOT printers. They do not REQUIRE you to purchase supplies on a regular basis in order for it to continue to function.
I believe Sony and Nintendo both make money with that model. You may not HAVE to buy games, but when the average game has severely limited replay value, you either buy a new game or you have a doorstop that cost a few hundred dollars.
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The Xbox wasn't expected to make money, the Xbox 360 is expected to make money in the not-so-far future. Considering shrinki
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if they expect to make money off of DRM media, then with the iPod and the upcoming iTV, then the point of the Xbox - as you lay it out - is about to be superceded.
Either way, they're certainly not making money off of game sales so far. If anything, it seems they're losing money on the Xbox even faster since they ramped up production to try and take advantage of the PS3 delay - which with the large number of Wii units selling, might ha
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Then again, I wouldnt be surprised by iTunes getting 'defeated' by the labels eventually simply forcing Apple to use equivalent to WMA DRM. Live by the sword of monopoly control, die by the sword of monopoly control.
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Emusic's format puts an emphasis on not just independent music, but also the connections between them. I was on the fence about emusic until I noticed how good their recommendation and connectedness was. You can easily play "6 degrees" in emusic and it makes finding music fun, which is a big plus. No other service do
iTunes is a company now? (Score:2)
Old story, re-examined. (Score:2, Interesting)
* applying Windows stickers to all PCs sold, and using a keyboard with a prominent Windows key.
Hah. One of the first things I did, after building my first PC 4 years ago, was lever off the Windows keys, which flew behind my desk and haven't been seen since. Annoying pieces of shit. Everytime I accidently hit one for Ctrl or Alt fed the need to remove these unwelcome interlopers of QWERTY keyboards.
More than 80% of Microsoft's revenues for Windows come from corporate volume licensing and OEM copies
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Seriously, I love my old-school, IBM Model M, battle-ship tough [dansdata.com], obnoxiously loud, buckling spring clicky keyboard. No Windows key, a proper layout, and very nice tactile feedback. [clickykeyboards.com]
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I second that! I've been using them for years. Great keyboard. I have a stash of them in case one goes belly-up.
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Most of the clicky keyboards use normal PS/2, so you should be just fine without any adapter, assuming your computer has PS2 ports.
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Brown (Score:5, Funny)
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Why? No one knows...
This just in... (Score:2)
In other news.. water found to be wet, fire still a hot property, and chocolate exhibits yumminess.
The day Microsoft... (Score:4, Funny)
What I don't want is an MP3-player that's DRM-infested, but doesn't even play their own, much advertised DRM format, an MP3-player with WiFi that can ONLY communicate with other MP3-players or an MP3-player with a navigational wheel that doesn't spin.
Congratulations Microsoft, at least you reinvented the wheel!
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They redesigned the wheel so that it didn't even spin anymore!
Antitrust (Score:2)
2.never advertising PCs sold without an operating system, or with an alternative OS installed;
How can this not be viewed as anti-competitive behavior resulting from MS monopoly? Man, that sucks for the other OS's...
Two Words (Score:2)
1. Cost
Apple's BOM costs aren't meaningfully higher than any of their competitors. I'm guessing their vig to the media conglomerates is about the same. They are working on the same cost structure which means microsoft has no advantage going in. It is very likely the zune will never operate as a profitable project by itself. It may be around for a while and they will destroy all of their OEM vendors business along the way. But, legitimate business that threatens the ipod it won't ever
It's obvious (Score:3, Interesting)
Apple has discovered a balance between hindering blatent "piracy" and fair use which most people find tolerable, almost downright customer-friendly. If they were to offer iTunes for Linux, I just might buy music from Apple.
However, they (Apple) still have to realize that when I buy it, I OWN it, and I have the right by law to transfer ownership of what I purchased to someone else if I damn well desire to, just as I can sell or give away a used CD I no longer want.
MS takes the wrong approach to extend sharing... (Score:2)
Microsoft wants the killer feature of the Zune to be the sharing, but that sharing is severely limiting. The best thing to do would be to extend the convenient and useful type of sharing that Apple has in iTunes to the portable players. If they did that before Apple did, it might be useful.
What I'm thinking is this: Sharing is not limited as to the
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"However, they (Apple) still have to realize that when I buy it, I OWN it, and I have the right by law to transfer ownership of what I purchased to someone else if I damn well desire to, just as I can sell or give away a used CD I no longer want."
And, from a technology standpoint, that's exactly what you could do: burn your iTunes purchases to CD and hand them to a friend.
Apple a very minor player in PC industry (Score:3, Funny)
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Re:Apple a very minor player in PC industry (Score:4, Insightful)
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Actually, if you look it up, the term "personal computer" was coined in the early 1960s, but was hardly used until the IBM-PC.
"To call Wintel machines is a quite recent development"
The term "Wintel" never quite fit: half run AMD now, and for the first few years, PCs did not even run Windows. Besides, this "recent" you refer to started in 1981: a mere
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Microcomputers are a completely different thing: The VAX for instance was a microcomputer. Microcomputer used to have the size of a small fridge, and they were called this to make a difference to midrange computers and the big irons. Today the microcomputer class would be called a "server".
The term Win
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Well, they sell x86 Intel microcomputers, which you can buy [macmall.com] from several resellers pre-installed with Windows, so.. what were we talking about?
By this standard they're a marginal PC manufacturers, with a market share on the scale of the Sony Vaios.
fool, Apple INVENTED the PC (Score:2)
Not even that. (Score:2)
I know it is a long time ago and easy to forget, but there were a lot of other companies around then. Commodore's PET came out about the same time as the Apple II. The TRS-80 came out a couple months after. There are likely other earlier models I'm probably forgetting. They were called "microcomputers" at that time. The marketing term "personal computer" was introduced a little later, but it never really caught on until the IBM-PC. Also, if
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Dell recommends XP (Score:2)
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Not long ago... (Score:2)
Next story please... How about something to do with HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray or maybe even VHS vs BetaMax!
Why Apple can't compete with Microsoft (Score:2, Insightful)
Apple has less OS market share than the "minor" ipod-wannabes, yet the
Re:Why Apple can't compete with Microsoft (Score:4, Insightful)
How about "Why Microsoft's Zune Scares Apple to the Core" [slashdot.org] from like two weeks ago?
Maybe a better question would be "why do trolls get modded +3 interesting for whining about articles suggesting Microsoft isn't the shining beacon of success they try to portray themselves as?"
Read with IE (Score:3, Interesting)
It's like Bizarro world... A great article exposing Microsoft limitations and/or weaknesses, but it will not render well in Firefox. Because of that, I have to rate the article a 6.5 to 7 (on a scale of one to ten). Fix the rendering so that Firefox renders the text well and then it would probably rate as a 8.5 to 9.
Because we won't let them--and we shouldn't (Score:2)
I erased it all because some of the younger crowd probably would see it as some sort of conspiracy theory. Those that lived through the 80s and 90s working in t
Great /. Bogs Down Another (Score:2)
One word, dudes (Score:2)
Compete? (Score:2)
Consider that they got their start as a subcontractor for IBM, and used IBM's economic clout to enforce "agreements" with retail vendors that effectively locked out other startups. That was so successful that they've never had much of a motive to "compete" in any ordinary sense of the word. They don't compete; they make deals. When they have to, they engage in classical price wars, but that's a last reso
Not *quite* that high. (Score:2)
If you're Apple, then you're going to be fighting for the 25% that's split among Sandisk/Creative/et al for "everything else," which is mostly sold to people who have made a conscious decision that they don't want an iPod.
Correction: "If you're not Apple..." (Score:2)
If you're NOT Apple, then you're going to be fighting for the 25% that's split among Sandisk/Creative/et al for "everything else," which is mostly sold to people who have made a conscious decision that they don't want an iPod.
Durh.
Re:duh... marketing... how about windows (Score:2)
Re:duh... marketing... how about windows (Score:5, Insightful)
I would say yes, because within that 5% is 95% of the innovation in desktops.
iTMS = iPod does not imply iPod = iTMS (Score:2)
iTMS = iTunes Music Store.
iTunes = the iTunes application program.
A => B does not imply B => A.
iTMS => iPod does not imply iPod => iTMS
iTMS and its DRM'd AAC files are easily replaceable, just like 8-track tapes, casette tapes, LPs, etc. It is merely yet another content delivery system. The notion of a lock-in is a myth. MP3s are still the dominant music format. iTunes rips to both MP3 and non-DRM'd AAC files. iPods play MP3, non-DRM'd AAC, and DRM'd AAC. The average iTMS customer
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Re:duh... marketing (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the confusion here is the difference between iTunes the application and iTunes the music store.
Everyone who owns and iPod uses iTunes to transfer music to it (well you can work around this but its a pain and pointless unless you a techie)
But not everyone who owns an iPod uses iTunes to purchase their music nor everyone who purcashed songs from iTunes have an iPod (albeit they can only listen to it on iTunes and rip it to cds).
In fact for someone to fill a 60gb iPod with music from iTunes, they would need to spend over $10,000 to do so which make this fact unlikley.
Personally, I rip CDs into MP3s and put them on my iPod, wheras I have a hunch that perhaps many people get their Mp3s from houses of ill repute... *coughs* Pirate bay *coughs*
However, Apple's goal was not to make money off iTunes the music store or force people to be able to only use music on iPods that they've purchased from them.
It is a nice benefit to them that people purchase songs, but their real and true goal was to use the iTunes music service to sell iPods.
I have a feeling though that Micrsoft has this goal in reverse. In which they intend to sell Zunes at a loss to get people to buy music from their service and somehow fail horribly in this process.
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Doesn't the iPod just work like an external hard drive when you plug it in without iTunes? How would working with that be a pain and pointless? And aren't there like half a dozen other programs (like amarok) that do iPod syncing if you really want to go the iTunes way without iTunes? I really don't think everyone who has an iPod uses iTunes.
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I should have clarified this a bit...
It isn't that hard to transfer Mp3s without iTunes installed. In fact you can do with the folowing command line in OS X terminal: cp -R
But seriously... How many people do you know that aren't a techie that would know how to do that?
How many average Joes or Grandmas are going to
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It's not (XBox division still posts losses). Apple is using iPod $ to develop computers and MS is (1) trying to dry up that cash fountain and/or (2) dominate the market via undercutting (i.e. IE).
With deep pockets, Microsoft's goal is about keeping their position secure and by conquering the iPod market, they eliminate/cripple a competitor in their biggest market.
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Well, and I think that studies show that...the majority of people's majority of music on their iPods is not bought from online services, but, mostly are ripped from their own CD's they own (or possibly 'borrow' from friends). An iPod works great for that....and iTunes now is nice enough to give you album covers for these songs too.....
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To that end you should probably stop referring to yourself as a consumer. Also, Apple is just trying to sell more stuff by taking advantage of people who use iPods as statements. Some idiot waving their red music player around like it is a fashion statement doesn't make me feel like an idiot for having the same player (in white) discreetly stashed in my pocket.
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To that end you should probably stop referring to yourself as a consumer.
I still consume, I just don't go in for every toy which everyone else has to have to part of some clique.
Also, Apple is just trying to sell more stuff by taking advantage of people who use iPods as statements. Some idiot waving their red music player around like it is a fashion statement doesn't make me feel like an idiot for having the same player (in white) discreetly stashed in my pocket.
And they're smart, because it keeps
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Meaningful nitpicks please. (Score:2)
Where did the article say that Apple was first with either?
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