EarthLink Establishes Their Own "Site Finder"

Guppy06 writes "Last week, instead of a regular DNS error, EarthLink's DNS servers started to return a redirect to earthlink-help.net, a site that bears a close resemblance to VeriSign's much-maligned Site Finder, to their subscribers. According to their official blog at Earthling, "By presenting users with contextual help based upon the non-existent domain the user entered, we believe we are improving the EarthLink user experience with a system that will not interfere with other network processes." Most of the responses in said blog posting aren't positive."

Profit is the Motive

[eldavojohn]

I visited the earthlink help page and noticed that it contained four things.

1. A box showing suggested search terms
2. A box in which I could search (through Yahoo!) for my page.
3. Two banner ads.

When I enter in a term, say 'guitar' [earthlink-help.net], I get a page with yet more ads and sponsored links but still directed through earthlink help to Yahoo!

I wasn't born yesterday, I understand the concepts of paid search, sponsored links & banner ads. They generate revenue and insult me. They waste real estate on websites and obscure my information that I would prefer to harvest un assaulted by sales pitches.

I'm betting I'm not the first to say this, but this is insane.

If they wanted to be 'helpful' they would provide you with some sort of new service. In this solution, they are simply deciding which search engine you will use and cashing in off of it also. If we want to search for another answer, I think we know where to go. If you doubt our abilities to select a preferred search engine, at least give us some choices. Do you know what happens in Firefox when I pull down the search engine on the upper right? I can select from a number of sites.

"By presenting users with contextual help based upon the non-existent domain the user entered, we believe we are improving the EarthLink user experience with a system that will not interfere with other network processes."

You're not improving anything, you're laughing all the way to the bank.

Re:Profit is the Motive

[whoppers]

Agreed on all points, but it doesn't matter. Picture the average earthlink user in your head and then realize half are dumber than the person you're picturing. Maybe 5% of earthlink users will realize and give a damn, the other 95% are just happy they have something new to click that may take them somewhere that may be useful. An error page is a dead end for them that makes them think they've screwed up.

A best friend used to work in marketing for earthlink and told me about the users they brought in to test websites, systems, etc... I was absolutely horrified and now weep for the future.

Re:Profit is the Motive

[techno-vampire]

I, OTOH, was working for Earthlink when the merger came. Our stock price dropped by well over 40%, never to recover. When I saw the way we were expected to configure Mindspring customers, I was horrified, because Mindspring was, among other things, using three DNS servers on the same Class C; one router goes and no DNS! I have to say that at least half the things I found bad about Earthlink in all the time I was there, came from Mindspring. I'm sure your POV is valid, and I'm not disputing you. I just wanted to show things from the other side.

That being said, even before the Earthlink/Mindspring thing, Earthlink had changed from a fairly savvy ISP to a company that jumped on every bandwagon that came down the pike without asking itself if the idea was any good. Thinking back, I suspect that about a year or so before the merger, the marketing department got control of the company, and it really showed. This is just another example of what happens when technical decisions are made by people with neither the undestanding to do the right thing nor an interest in learning what the issues really are.

Speaking as an Earthlink cable internet subscriber

[Penguin Follower]

I will admit that while I am not crazy about this search redirector, overall I have been happy with Earthlink as my broad band provider. They have been no better or worse then Time Warner/Road Runner was when I first got this cable line, and they are MUCH cheaper than Road Runner. I do not have cable TV just cable internet - RR wants $54.95/mo when I left them, and Earthlink has remained at $41.95/mo. It was a no brainer for me to switch when RR made their last increase (Its been about two years ago, IIRC)

Re:

[Breakfast Pants]

I've got a tip for you: change your DNS server. Then you get lower internet rates based on the money they think they are getting with this new technology, and based on the other customers falling prey to it.

Re:Profit is the Motive

[geminidomino]

Google doesn't fuck with the RFCs to make its profit.

Broken DNS Servers vs. Broken Web Caching

[billstewart]

Most of the PR from Earthlink is extremely fuzzy about what it's actually doing. The pages it points to at Barefruit say that they're doing web-proxy manipulation, not DNS manipulation, and that if their web-proxy caching server detects a DNS miss, it'll go to the substitution advertising page. That means that if you try email, or ssh, or telnet, or ping or traceroute, or some other non-http protocol to a mistyped domain, you should still see the correct DNS message, though it's not clear whether they're

Re:Broken DNS Servers vs. Broken Web Caching

[XanC]

There's nothing fuzzy about what's actually happening. I can ping any random string of garbage and get a response. That's no Web-proxy problem; it's a fundamental breakage of DNS.

The difference is...

[Anonymous Coward]

Earthlink subscribers can opt by not being Earthlink subscribers any longer. When Verisign did it, it affected everyone because they've been granted a monopoly on certain domain extensions.

Voting with one's dollars is not always effective

[tepples]

Earthlink subscribers can opt by not being Earthlink subscribers any longer.

If EarthLink is the only dial-up ISP with modems in a given local calling area, as AOL was for a lot of the United States for a long time, then most residential users are not going to want to pay per minute for long distance just to get on the Internet. Even for more affluent parts of the country, what happens when the phone company has partnered with EarthLink, and the cable company is even less competent?

Re:Voting with one's dollars is not always effecti

[tchuladdiass]

Simple. Continue to use Earthlink, but don't use their DNS. Just run your own dns server locally. Or, point to another open dns server.

Re:Voting with one's dollars is not always effecti

[LiquidCoooled]

Only terrorists would run their own DNS server.

Re:

[westlake]

Simple. Continue to use Earthlink, but don't use their DNS. Just run your own dns server locally. Or, point to another open dns server.

how many of Earthlink's customers do you suppose heve the foggiest notion of what a DNS server is or does or knows how to set up an alternative?

Re:

[Killshot]

Hey, the man said it was simple, deal with it.
I am sure he would be happy to explain to earthlink customers how simple it is to set up

Re:

[valmont]

i'll tell you exactly how many: the number of earthlink customers that have the foggiest notion of what a DNS server is, and how to setup their own bind/named or djbdns instance, is equal to the number of earthlink customers who actually care about this issue, and don't actually want to be presented with relevant ads/search results. It's that easy.

Using another server easier than setting one up

[billstewart]

The customers that care about the problem don't need to know how to set up their own DNS server - they just need to know how to set their system to use some other DNS server's address. On Windows, you go into Control Panel and set up the network stuff; on Linux you set your resolv.conf file. Much easier.

Re:

[zerocool^]

Might I suggest 4.2.2.1?

's been my "test" DNS server for years.

Re:Voting with one's dollars is not always effecti

[Aladrin]

Earthlink also provides services for Brighthouse in Florida. And there IS a choice of 3 companies there. I believe RoadRunner and AOL are the other 2. They could lose a TON of customers, if the customers cared.

Earthlink has pissed me off before and I am seriously considering switching to roadrunner. The only thing that has stopped me is that every time I make even a small change to my account, Brighthouse (who isn't so bright) screws up the entire account and I'm out of service for 2 weeks. And I can't

Re:

[Cygfrydd]

A strong recommendation for someone who works in advanced broadband svcs @ BH Tampa Bay: insist on speaking to a Level IV rep to make account changes. Regional customer service is notorious for wrecking accounts when making changes involving internet service. We Level IV's are the ones who are called on to fix said accounts. In CS's defense, we have to deal with an unneccessarily complex billing system that isn't as straightforward as it should be.

Re:

[Aladrin]

That's as may be, but physically disconnecting my cable the next day, and then refusing to send a guy out for 2 weeks is inexcuseable. I don't care how complicated the system is.

Re:

[techno-vampire]

Speaking as a former Earthlink employee, going back to when they only had about 25,000 customers, no it isn't. Yes, Sky and a few other founders are Scientologists, but they had a rigid policy against proselityzing at work. Not once in the 7.5 years I worked there did I ever hear a pitch from them, or any other denomination. I have both good and bad memories of that time, but one thing they really believed in was freedom of religion, including freedom from preaching.

Re:Voting with one's dollars is not always effecti

[matth]

Maybe this is news to you.. but Earthlink owns VERY little of their dial-up infrastructure.. instead they lease from Qwest/UUNet/etc. There are many MANY other ISPs (like the one I work for) that have the same amount or more dial-up numbers nationwide then Earthlink does.

There are other dialup providers out there

[billstewart]

AT&T provides dialup around the world, including extremely widespread dialup in the US. I've mainly dealt with the business service rather than the consumer service, but I assume the consumer DSL still provides similar coverage to Earthlink's.

Re:

[general_re]

Earthlink subscribers can opt by not being Earthlink subscribers any longer.

It appears you can "opt out" simply by using Firefox. If I put a nonsense domain into IE, it takes me to the Earthlink "help" page, complete with ads and "suggestions" for ringtones and used cars. If I put the same nonsense domain into FF, all I get is the standard FF "Server not found" page. YMMV.

Re:

[general_re]

Musta been a transient thing with their DNS servers - FF is showing it now too. Oh, well - I didn't think it'd be that simple, but ya never know :)

Re:

[general_re]

Although I will point out that FF+Adblock kills the ads that appear on the "help" page, so at least you don't have to see those :)

1 Cancellation

[DrunkenTerror]

I've kept an Earthlink dial-up account in case I took my notebook on a road trip. I haven't used it in a while though, and have been meaning to cancel it. I think I'll go ahead and take care of that now, and I'll make a point of telling the rep about this.

Re:

[__aaclcg7560]

Be prepared for an extended phone call of them trying to get you not only not cancel but also upgrade your service package. I had to tell them three times that I was not interested in the sales pitch and I was cancelling the service. Fortunately, I had no problem with my checking account when the automatic debit was cancelled for the following month.

Re:

[RKBA]

Your bank cancelled an automatic debit??? My bank said they could only do that in case of fraud. That's why I never give out my bank account number anymore. Who is your bank?

Re:

[mortonda]

If you cancel a service, then an automatic debit *is* fruad. But in either case, what you are looking for is a "stop-payment". Every bank should have it.

Re:

[__aaclcg7560]

Earthlink cancelled the automatic debit to my checking account. Although I did closed my checking account for unrelated reasons. I've heard horror stories where Earthlink and AOL kept on charging monthly fees long after the account was cancelled. Fortunately, my cancellation was fairly straight forward.

Re:

[Achromatic1978]

Your bank is not your mother. Your agreement between you and a supplier of services is of no matter to them. If you tell them not to honour automatic debits on your account, then they should honour it. Provide this in writing.

It is quite simply irrelevant what your contract is with this supplier - if it breaches you, so what? The bank shouldn't care - it's between you and the company. That money is yours, provided to the bank for safekeeping. You should never have to justify, to the bank, why someone shoul

Re:

[WebCrapper]

It was mandatory when I worked for them to offer up to 3 months credit to keep customers. Wouldn't be suprised if they're still doing this. Almost glad I got fired after they took over mindspring.

icann should ban this

[a_greer2005]

There has to be some way that this sort of crap can be banned, it breaks the internet, because the error code is now a "valid" page!

Re:

[Qzukk]

Nah, in this case it doesn't break the internet, it only breaks Earthlink's net, and only then software that expects it to work "correctly" which is probably only used by 5% of their customers. If you're going to do this, you might as well do it at the ISP level, since then people can switch to the other ISP (assuming that both cable and dsl don't start doing this), and the ISPs don't have it forced on them by some higher level.

Re:

[Wieland]

Perhaps, but it is a precedent. Unless it's made very clear to Earthlink that this is not acceptable, soon every big ISP in the world will be doing this, and DNS will be broken beyond repair.

The "Unix Way" vs "Everyone Else"

[BadAnalogyGuy]

Here on /. the general zeitgeist follows what is commonly called the "Unix way". Things should be kept small and only do one thing, but do it well. Developers can gain power by tying these simpler components together.

The other way of thinking can be termed the "Microsoft way" or even better "Apple way". This viewpoint believes that integrating things into easy-to-use applications leads to greater productivity gains as well as a more pleasant user experience. Instead of giving a ton of pieces to the user and expect them to make sense of it all, this viewpoint presents a fully-formed solution to the user.

The Unix Way zealots will tell you that undermining this dirt road area of the internet by returning useful results instead of an error message is bad. The Microsoft/Apple Way zealots will argue that something useful is always better than an inscrutable error message.

The side you fall on is really a viewpoint issue, and not a technical one. There is no technical reason why Earthlink's move couldn't be worked around, if that is really a good solution. There's also no technical reason why Earthlink needs to go ahead with something like this when search engines are already built into most modern browsers.

Re:

[a_greer2005]

It all depends on the task at hand, if the task is sorting or querying a 2 terebyte database, give me the unix way, if it is to send a picture of the kids to grandma, give me the apple way.

Re:

[a_greer2005]

Maybe the default DMS error page needs to be updated with a list of links to search engines: that would solve both problems at once: If the default page had all the usual 404 junk up top, then had a little thing saying "not what you are looking for? try one of these Internet Search Engines" followed by a list.

Re:

[M. Baranczak]

You're mixing up two different types of error: a 404 and a non-existent domain name. A 404 is what happens when you make a request to a functioning web server for a non-existent page. In case of a 404, the error page is, in fact, generated by the server.

Re:

[irc.goatse.cx troll]

While true, IE used to(might still, not sure) discard the servers error page if it was less than a certain amount of bytes and instead show its own pretty page.

Unrelated to the topic at hand, but just FYI/clearing up some potential confusion.

Re:

[krell]

"That may be an easy answer for you, but is it also the right choice for Joe User?"

Why would Joe User want a tool where you tell it to do one thing, and it does another instead?

"You are already unable to give a valid address, do you think you should also be expected to be able to decipher what a 404 error means?"

I'm not so much hung on on the error being EXACTLY a 404. For all I care, it can be a simple and easy "This page does not exist". That's all.

Re:

[westlake]

Why would Joe User want a tool where you tell it to do one thing, and it does another instead?

Joe simply wants to be connected to the Nascar site. If the browser can point him in the right direction, that is exactly what he wants it to do.

Re:

[Bitsy Boffin]

The point is, it's the BROWSER that should be presenting the user with options of what to do when a domain is unresolvable, some browsers might just display an error, others a search, others might try and fix it, others might ask the user what they want to do... Earthlink has usurped that.

As others have pointed out, it's not just the web that's the problem, silently resolving invalid domains to some other IP has much wider ramifications, from spam elimination, to email security.

Re:The "Unix Way" vs "Everyone Else"

[marcello_dl]

This is not about the unix way or the apple way. This is about the Computer Science way: returning an error when an error occurs. Dealing with the error is an user agent, not an ISP responsibility. Earthlink should have made this opt-in (they can spare a coupe IPs for a couple more DNS servers, can't they). I run PPC linux and mac on linux over it occasionally, so I know what you probably meant, it still does not apply here.

Re:

[Brandybuck]

This is about the Computer Science way: returning an error when an error occurs.

DNS through an exception, EarthLink caught it. What is so not-computer-science about that?

Re:

[Drgnkght]

The problem is the browser is supposed to catch this "exception" that DNS threw. You requested a domain name lookup from DNS. DNS checked and replied that the request was invalid. On its way back to you the response was altered by Earthlink to send you somewhere you didn't request. How is this not a hijacking?

Re:

[giorgiofr]

NO: that's exactly the PP's point. You provide a better service by returning the relevant error. My ISP started doing this some time ago and I was enraged at their idiotic page, not because they put ads on it, but because I need a frigging error when an error occurs. I am *not* provided a better service by a helpful know-it-all page that fails miserably at its purpose. I am also not given a better service by all those apps that want to think for me instead of letting my do my thing.
I am also installing my

Re:

[Just Some Guy]

I am also installing my own DNS server as soon as I've finished other stuff that's in the queue right now.

You might bump that up a bit. Configuring a local caching DNS server is pretty darn simple these days, and if you're running a BSD, you almost certainly already have one installed.

Re:

[giorgiofr]

Um yeah you're right, come to think of it, my ISP should probably just go all the way and silently reroute my connections to the destination they think fits me better... It's not like the end user knows what he's doing.
*megatokyo CTRL+ENTER*
*out pops www.wanna buy a house at house.com? you fit the demographic perfectly. you probably wanted to buy a house, right? you didn't really want to read your favourite webcomic*

Re:

[vadim_t]

Sure, for example, automated programs. Screen scraping, automatic downloading of backups, transferring data that's not HTML at all (such as DAV used for SVN repositories), that sort of things. Those tasks expect the operation to fail. HTTP is used for a lot more than showing the pages to the end user.

Another example is email. If you misspell the domain name, and it doesn't exist, the mail immediately will fail to deliver and bounce. If the server is there but doesn't respond to requests, your mail server as

Re:

[TClevenger]

On the HTTP side, if you get returned a page instead of a "server not found" error, that mistyping becomes a part of your browser history. From then on, any autocomplete you might rely on will return you the misspelling, since it was a "valid" page.

Re:

[Randseed]

Can you explain exactly how you are harmed by Earthlink's method? How does it hurt your computing experience? Why do you need an error page when an error occurs?

Uh:

# wget http://nonexistantdomain2342134.com/file.htm [nonexistan...342134.com]

What is supposed to happen is the domain doesn't resolve, so the operation fails. With Earthlink's moronic solution, I get their damned bullshit page instead of an error.

I'll use an ISP that doesn't shit all over the RFCs, thanks.

Re:

[gmack]

"inscrutable error code" ? What are you using? A browser from 5 years ago?

My firefox presents me a helpfull explanation page and more importantly leaves the URL there for me to correct. Redirecting me would annoy me in the same way the old browser 404 page did by removing what I typed and making me type it in again from scratch.

Re:

[TheRaven64]

Here's an example:

I am configuring my email client. I typo when I enter the mail server's domain name. When my client tries to connect to the server, it receives an NXDOMAIN error, and tells me 'the host you are looking for does not exist.'

Now, I try the same thing on EarthLink. This time, the error I get from my client is that the mail server does not respond to connections on the IMAP port. Now what do I do? I call up the server administrator (assuming it's not my server) and tell him to fix it.

Re:

[marcello_dl]

I'm sure you meant 'software engineering' and not 'computer science'.

((software engineering) AND NOT (computer science)) = null

except the results are not useful

[krell]

"The Unix Way zealots will tell you that undermining this dirt road area of the internet by returning useful results"

Except that these results are not "useful", and are even less useful than a simple honest error message. When I type in a wrong URL, I don't want to be punished by attempts to redirect me to a useless second-rate search service. I just want enter the correct URL and go about my business. Such redirections to useless sites are like putting deep mudpits in the dirt road.

"There's also no t

Re:

[mdhoover]

Cool, so you wont mind folks redirecting all the wonderful new mountains of spam to your server which now gets through because forged bogus sending domains now resolve. There is a reason you dont fuck with the naming service...

Re:

[PigleT]

Ah, yet another moron thinking the internet is all about the Web. Have you ever wondered what effect this will have on your email spam-filters that do DNS lookups to check the sender domain exists, and suddenly find it does regardless?

So what?

[poptones]

How is this worse than all those "search engine" sites squatting on unused and misspelled dowmains? At least earthlink is trying to provide some meaningful info to their customers.

There are plenty of freely accessible public DNS servers; let those old school "do it our way cuz that's the way it's always been done" zealots learn to drive their own machines and stop telling everyone else how to run their lives and businesses.

Re:So what?

[jolyonr]

Earthlink aren't providing meaningful information to customers - they're just trying to make money.

Of course, that's what businesses are for, so as you say, if they want to do it, they should be entirely entitled to do so. However:

a) It's not fair on those who have paid for an existing service to have the nature of this service changed on them without warning - many people feel they are now getting a poorer service.

b) They should at the very least have provided an opt-out system for those who prefer untainted DNS that works in the way the internet standards require it to work. Then people with firewall, anti-spam or other systems that this change breaks wouldn't be so up in arms.

If my ISP did this, I'd leave them. Luckily my ISP is more sane.

Jolyon

Abuse? I got your abuse...

[poptones]

I didn't say "ALL" I said "all those" - you need to go back to school if you cannot grasp the difference.

And many of those "squatters" (actually parkers) DO NOT own those domains, nor do they ever plan to - they take advantage of the system, registering the domains and then rolling them over just before time runs out to get their money back - then RE registering them, then rolling over the ones that got a hit or two.... ad infinitum. They create a giant pain in the ass for the LEGIT web businesses that woul

Stupidity seems to be contagious

[CharonX]

Has Earthlink learnt NOTHING from VeriSign's debacle?
Blatantly ignoring established policy (if a DNS-request does not resolve the response must be "DNS-request does not resolve" not "here it is"). Let's not forget all the privacy issues with hundreds of thousands of e-mails, normally being undeliverable because the sender made a typo in the adress, now end up in their inbox.
Hmmm... if I were to DDOS www.this-site-does-not-exist-but-earthlink-resolv e s-it-anway.something would I act criminally? I mean, the

Re:

[SavvyPlayer]

...if I were to DDOS www.this-site-does-not-exist-but-earthlink-resolve s-it-anway.something would I act criminally?

If you were to DDOS www.this-site-does-not-exist-but-earthlink-resolve s-it-anway.something, you would be an Earthlink subscriber violating your TOS. Your account would simply be cancelled by Earthlink.

The address you entered could not be found.

[Avillia]

Please try the related content suggestions and paid advertisements below, or try another search.
You entered "http://www.slashdot.org/".

Advertisements for cow steroids, cars, and free computers followed.

Re:

[MoogMan]

I got something more relevant...

Apartments, Dating Services, Travel Guides [earthlink-help.net] - Maybe they're telling us to get out of your mum's basement, get a girlfriend and get out of the house!

Stay In the Box

[Doc Ruby]

The place for offering "help" in the user interface is in the client software. Perhaps the DNS error needs a metadata field for offering messages, perhaps hyperlinked, for exception handling. But those must be presented by the user agent, like the browser, not tricking the browser into "passthru" to server misdirection. That violates the DNS specs. And makes that essential global system vulnerable to unpredicted failures when dependant systems get nonstandard results.

These ISPs attract marketing people with dreams of empire and ignorance of Internet. Execs put them in power over the engineers, and just rip across the careful system designs that make the Net work. Then they cry when their stuff doesn't work, and blame the engineers.

But they compete with each other on how well their stuff works. As long as we can switch ISPs among a pool with critical mass size, they'll exploit each others' weaknesses to grab customers. These "DNS hijacks" are going to be with us forever, avoidable only while we have a choice between independent, competing ISPs.

Re:

[steve_l]

Yeah, this is the same mistake that verisign marketing thought -thayt there was no network traffic other than humans browsing port 80 and that when browsers got an NXDOMAIN response they displayed a bad message.

Most browsers are called Internet Explorer, and they handle NX domain with a microsoft search page on MSN. Anyone trying to take off hostname resolution for those browsers is taking money off Microsoft. Its not 'spare cash left on the table', its 'microsofts money'. If you want to do something for en

Re:

[generic-man]

Really? I just typed a nonsensical domain name into IE on my Windows computer, and I got "Cannot find server or DNS Error" with no ads or MSN search boxes. I've seen that MSN behavior in the past, but not recently.

Re:

[generic-man]

Ah, never mind. The "Cannot Find Server" dialog comes up when you enter www.(gibberish).com in the address bar. If you type some random words in the address bar, you get brought to a search page.

Of course Firefox does exactly the same thing with a Google "I'm Feeling Lucky" search by default...

Just another co-opted standard...

[SavvyPlayer]

See also: HTTP + port 80 being used for everything from chat to file sharing to video streaming to RPC. Add to that HTTP status 200 + HTML being increasingly used to represent every possible response status.

Solution: Use a different DNS server in settings

[MoNickels]

I noticed the Earthlink change this week and immediately put a non-Earthlink DNS server at the top of my DNS servers list. My browser now returns the proper "can't find server" message and not Earthlink's advertising. (If you do this, please consider the ethical implications of using another provider's DNS server if you do not subscribe to that provider.)

Re:Solution: Use a different DNS server in setting

[OverlordQ]

The thing is, for people who dislike this Service because of what it breaks are generally smart enough to work around it.

Earthlink is probably assuming "Well if they dont like it they can work around it, but hey, everybody else likes it!"

Re:

[Firehed]

Okay... I'm a slashdotter and I have no idea how the hell to go about doing that (mind you, I could find out if I were bothered to do so). My (and most /.ers) knowledge of the inner workings of the internet is probably about three orders of magnitude higher than most Earthlink customers, or of any other ISP for that matter. Until something like that comes in the form of critical automatic update, there's not a snowball's chance in hell of it happening on even a small scale.

Solution that'll keep both sides happy...

[b0s0z0ku]

Set up two DNS addresses: one with the service, one without. In the setup instructions, state that to turn off the site finder service, point your DNS manually to www.xxx.yyy.zzz instead of using DHCP to configure it.

-b.

Re:

[b0s0z0ku]

i have no idea what you're trying to say.

Basically, Earthlink should provide an alternative server and instructions on how to utilize it to clients who don't wish to use their automagic Site Finder service.

-b.

If they want to do this, and not get flamed...

[Mike Peel]

If they want to do something like this, and avoid getting flamed for it, then they really need to do something like the following:

• A simple message: e.g. "This domain has not yet been registered", or "The domain was not found"
• Suggestions for sites that the user was actually looking for (e.g. www.slashodt.org --> "were you looking for slashdot.org?"
• _no_ banner ads, or other adverts - otherwise they would just be bulk domain squatters.
• Maybe things like search boxes (with a choice of search engines), bu

Even Worse - It's Inconsistent

[stevemm81]

Two queries, one after the other. First it does its "sitefinder," then it gives NXDOMAIN, and seems to alternate randomly...

#1:
> host www.yahoo.coma ns3.mindspring.com
Using domain server:
Name: ns3.mindspring.com
Address: 207.69.188.187#53
Aliases:

www.yahoo.coma has address 209.86.66.93
www.yahoo.coma has address 209.86.66.94
www.yahoo.coma has address 209.86.66.95
www.yahoo.coma has address 209.86.66.90
www.yahoo.coma has address 209.86.66.91
www.yahoo.coma has address 209.86.66.92

#2
> host www.yahoo.coma ns3

We got bit by this Friday

[tweek]

Attempting to test VPN-related DNS lookups with a business partner.

I IMMEDIATELY called earthlink business T1 support and the guy on the phone had no idea what I was talking about.

Why would a company roll out something like this WITHOUT telling its support people and without letting customers know in advance? Why do they not have an opt out option?

I'm in the process of going over the contract for our T1 to see if it's early enough to break (the service was purchased before I came on board but only by a month or so).

I'll get a Speakeasy T1 and be done with it. Why is it so damn hard to find a provider who gives you IP with no bullshit?

Re:

[tom's a-cold]

Why would a company roll out something like this WITHOUT telling its support people and without letting customers know in advance? Why do they not have an opt out option?

Earthlink's support has deteriorated drastically in the past couple of years, to the point where they're just another pool of shaved apes with email and phone connectivity. It would be a waste of time telling them anything.

I don't know what's happening to the senior management of Earthlink but they really seem to have lost focus on good

the web is not the internet...

[ThwartedEfforts]

... but ISPs keep treating it like it is. If this kind of web-browser-error-messages-are-so-hard-to-underst a nd-whaaaa-mommmy-hold-my-hand problem is so important, it can be done using proxying. Just have everyone who doesn't know how to type or can't understand the message "the domain ww.exampel.com couldn't be found" set the proxy settings in their browser. Or if you know your user base is composed of a bunch of idiots, use transparent proxying (obviously less effective with https traffic, but then sig

Not just Earthlink

[MobyDisk]

I use Cavalier Telephone [cavtel.net] and they started this practice a few weeks ago. First I thought it was a bug in Firefox (my google search bar not working). Then I spent 2 hours checking for a virus or spyware. After that, I tried another DNS server and realized the problem. I never expected a small DSL provider to do this kinda crud.

Looks like paid search placement from Yahoo

[stonedonkey]

If I didn't know any better, this would look like paid search routing. As in, Yahoo paid Earthlink to put a search box on this result page. Then Earthlink goes as far as to place banners and skyscrapers as well. All things considered, it smacks of financial desperation, since other posters in this discussion have pointed out just how much this behavior does not follow proper routing protocol.

Mistyped porn sites and phising sites?

[British]

Do they allow porn sites(with slightly misspelled names of popular websites) and phishing sites go through? If I was Earthlink I would put a "hey, maybe you mistyped this URL" website going for known sites like that.

this doesn't just affect HTTP

[keithmoore]

The biggest problem with this is not the ads (though they are annoying). This DNS hack doesn't just affect HTTP, it affects every application that does DNS queries. The claim that the system is configured to only handle NXDOMAIN HTTP traffic is a bald lie. There is no way for the DNS server to determine whether a query is being done for HTTP or for some other protocol.

When an application queries DNS for A records (IPv4 addresses) for a particular domain, one of three things should happen:
1. if there are A records for that domain, they should be returned
2. if there are no A records for that domain but there are other records, "no information" should be returned
3. if there are no records of any type for that domain, "no such domain" (NXDOMAIN) should be returned

What Earthlink's servers appear to be doing is the following:

1. if there are real A records for that domain, they are returned
2. if there are no A records for that domain, return A records for several hosts that don't belong to that domain.
if the application tries to talk HTTP to port 80 on any of those hosts and supplies the Host: query request
(standard in HTTP 1.1) the HTTP server will do a search for the domain that appears in the Host: request
and return HTML that suggests other domains that appear to be similar to the one given in the Host: request.
however if the application tries to talk to other ports on that machine it will get "connection refused" or
it will time out.

(the behavior is actually a bit more complicated than that. the behavior seems to be dependent on the IP address from
which the queries were made - so if you make the query to their servers from a host that isn't on Earthlink DSL
you will apparently get normal results. the behavior also seems to be dependent on the domain being queried.)

There are several things wrong with this behavior:

1. It's not reporting the error correctly. Applications that do DNS queries quite reasonably expect NXDOMAIN
to be returned if the domain does not exist, and "no information" to be returned if there are no records of
the type they're looking for - not a list of apparently valid IP addresses pointing to hosts that have nothing
to do with that domain. Many applications behave differently depending on the error condition. "connection
refused" and "connection timed out" are often treated as temporary errors - the application assumes that the
remote server is rebooting or isn't reachable and tries again later. "no such domain" is more often treated
as a permanent error, or one that requires immediate user attention. So this Earthlink change can cause
applications other than web browsers to behave improperly, or to give misleading error messages.

For example: if an email server is trying to send mail to someone at a particular domain, it will first do
a query for MX records to determine if there are any mail servers assigned to that domain. If the MX query returns
no answers, it may then issue a separate query for A records. If this happens the Earthlink DNS server will return
bogus A records and the email server will try to send the mail to Earthlink's servers rather than bouncing the mail
like it should. When Earthlink's servers refuse the connection, the email server will treat the condition as a
temporary error and retry at intervals for several days. As a result, mail for nonexistent domains (say, bounced
spam) can clog up the email server's queues and slow things down.

2. It is hiding other records associated with that domain. Say an application will

Re:

[keithmoore]

Another thing occurs to me: Even if the client is a web browser, the result of Earthlink's faking the DNS response can be to worsen the user's experience, since the user's web browser might well provide a better handling of nonexistent domains than Earthlink's HTTP server. For instance, it might return quicker results, better matches, or results without ads.

Re:

[keithmoore]

SRV records only affect protocols that are defined to use SRV records. most protocols are not defined to use them, and most application codes therefore don't do SRV queries.

even if an application did an SRV query, though, a nonexistent domain wouldn't list any SRV records, and Earthlink's server would return "no such domain" in response to a SRV query. then the application would presumably fall back to querying for A records, and Earthlink's server would return the bogus A records.

(I checked just now, and

Why the hell shouldn't it?

[argent]

Well, for one thing, if you're using a modern web browser your web browser is already doing this for you, and you may even be able to pick and choose which search engine to use.

For another, DNS results are cached by browsers and operating systems, so if someone's DNS servers are temporarily down then anyone who gets sent to earthlink-help.net will continue to see the site as "down" for longer than necessary.

For another, many applications need to know if a domain is not found. If they start getting valid res

Re:

[falsified]

True in a way, but there are two things that seem off to me. First, the search page isn't taking away a choice for you. You pointed your web browser to an address that didn't resolve, and you succeeded in doing so - but what changes is that your ISP recognizes this and gives you something in addition to some message about how you didn't get to the right site. Second of all, I don't see the difference between your browser making recommendations (and how do you think your browser will come up with these recom

Re:

[Randseed]

Because HTTP and DNS are both used for things not related to humans browsing web pages.

P.S.

[falsified]

I should have had a disclaimer - it's really easy to make one of these suggestion pages get really bad, really fast, like a browser hijack search page. Maybe I'm just being naive but since Earthlink already has your money and will be making more money off the sponsored clicks, I suspect the number of ads will be at least within reason on these pages. The one thing that is decent about IE's suggestion page is that there's maybe two or three images, last time I checked (I have Firefox here, and IE at work).

Re:

[falsified]

Nothing is getting sent to the web browser that is of use to an end user anyway. "Server not found" or some timeout message doesn't tell me a goddamned thing. Is it down? Does the page exist or not? Did I misspell something? Is there something wrong with my connection or the DNS server I/my ISP uses?
This is different from what VeriSign did because VeriSign had a monopoly in the market (if you can call it a market) and also VeriSign had a financial incentive in preventing registration of addresses similar

That's up to the web browser

[argent]

"Server not found" or some timeout message doesn't tell me a goddamned thing.

Then switch to a browser that tells you something useful, or install a plugin or local proxy that does the same thing. Then YOU get to choose whether you'll use Earthlink's search page or Microsoft's or Yahoo's or Google's. You may be using Amazon's A9 service as your default search engine, which means this service could actually be costing you a discount on Amazon.

This is different from what VeriSign did because VeriSign had a mon

Re:

[falsified]

Well, it could be and it could not be. Obviously for whatever reason, the present request I'm making isn't producting the expected results. However, "server not found" doesn't get me started on a solution - does the page I'm looking for still exist? If so, where is it and what is its condition? Perhaps the ensuing results page will offer caches of the page, if the server's down, et cetera. All in all, I see this as probably becoming a minor pain in the ass for people who don't like pages showing up where a

Re:

[The Cisco Kid]

For the record, the error that comes up if you try to access a nonexistent host/domain isnt a '404', as it doesnt come from a webserver, it comes internally from your browser. A 404 would only come up if you got a valid host, but the rest of the URL was nonexistent.

For instance compare http://slashdot.org/some/invalid/path [slashdot.org]
with http://an.invalid.domain/whatever [an.invalid.domain]

The former is unaffected by the mentioned modifications to the DNS that earthlink is doing - you still get /.'s 404 page. For the latter, your *browse

Re:What's the problem?

[b0s0z0ku]

When you dial a non-existant telephone number you get an ear piercing tone, you have to hang up, and start all over again.

Or we get a recording "doo-dah-dee. We're sorry - the number you have reached has been disconnected or is no longer in service. If you feel you have reached this recording in error, please check the number and try again."

We don't get "This recording is sponsored by Gromyko's Widget Works of Belle PPlain, Wisconsin, North American Wireless, and Joe's Pizza. You have dialed 555-1234. If you meant 554-1234, Smith, John, press 1, if you meant 556-1234, Mierzwiak, James, press 2, or if you meant 555-2233, Yung, M., press 3?"

Not to give the phone company ideas or anything :/

-b.

Re:

[Trick]

No, it's not just a side-wide 404 page.

The web is *not* the entire Internet. There's more than just HTTP out there, and this can break all of it.

Re:

[Randseed]

I don't understand the uproar. Isn't this just an ISP-wide 404 page?

When you dial a non-existant telephone number you get an ear piercing tone, you have to hang up, and start all over again.

Maybe it's all just a matter of personal preference?

Uh, no. First off, they're hijacking what should be a NXDOMAIN response and causing it to resolve, which breaks, well, everything. Second, the 404 should come from the target web server if it does resolve, not from some other random web site that Earthlink deci

Re:

[davidu]

That's going to change. We just had to cut a few features on the front-end for our initial roll out. We're definitely going to support dynamic IPs and folks with larger netblocks.

Just shoot me an email if you want to help beta test this before we roll it out. It'll be in the coming month or two.

Thanks,
David

Re:

[benh57]

From the http://www.opendns.com/what/ [opendns.com] site: We're not perfect (yet) so when we can't fix your typo we take you to a page with a set of search results. Sounds like they do the same thing as Earthlink...