Yahoo Rejects Microsoft Search Offer 129
mytrip writes to mention a Financial Times article detailing Microsoft's apparent interest in Yahoo!, and Yahoo!'s rude reaction to their interest. From the article: "The fight is on between the three internet search titans, after Yahoo's Terry Semel laid down the gauntlet to Microsoft saying the software giant's recently elevated ambitions in the search arena were a lost cause. 'My impartial advice to Microsoft is that you have no chance. The search business has been formed,' he said in an interview with the New Yorker's Ken Auletta."
Google? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Google? (Score:5, Insightful)
First you take an idea that someone else made and mature it.
You become the King until the market stabilizes.
Then someone else takes your place for the stable market.
It is not fair but that is the way it seems to go.
Like GUI OS's
Xerox made the GUI Interface.
Apple took the idea and matured it.
Apple becomes the king of GUI
Then Microsoft comes and takes your ideas and wins for the stable GUI market.
It is not always about quality it is just about having the charm to get most people to use it over something else.
Like Google seemed to load a little faster then Yahoo so people with dial-ups used it more. And when the internet became common place and mature a lot of people were still using dialup.
Re:Google? (Score:5, Insightful)
No I reckon their biggest problem was the amount of crap on their front page.
Re:Google? (Score:2)
Exists since '98 (archive.org)
Also moronic, lame people like me called "end users" or "90% of customer profile" actually uses that "crap" such as news, mail notification,custom alerts.
That is a working thing so they won't break it. That place is the Web"s NUMBER ONE site.
live with it,sorry
Re:Google? (Score:2)
Google, on the other hand, made it's first appearance on December 2, 1998 [archive.org].
Hm.
Re:Google? (Score:2)
"where are you getting THAT information, eh? i'm sure Yahoo! is going to be real quick to tell you that they're the "Number One" site... but does that mean the most visits? unique audience? what?"
also he adds:
"for the record---plain old Yahoo.com still has LOTS of "crap" on their page. i don't know about you, but in the time it takes to load "POPULAR YAHOO SEARCHES," links for "Yahoo Small Business" and random shit like "BUZZ LOG" (whateverthehell THAT is), i could have typed my search term i
Re:Google? (Score:1)
Re:Google? (Score:1)
commercial, like "dog food". results are about the same.
now try something less so, like "ovshinsky", which elicits
no sidebar ads. yup, about the same.
Re:Google? (Score:2)
No I reckon their biggest problem was the amount of crap on their front page.
I stopped using yahoo as soon as a Flash version of Britney promoting Pepsi started dancing across my screen. I can't remember the exact year, but I think it was around 2000. The damn ad would actually *obscure* the search box!!!
Re:Google? (Score:2)
That said, I don't think generalizations should be drawn from google. It's a one-in-a-million case where the underlying technology actually trumped everything else, and a good algorithm made its inventors super rich. How often does that happen? Almost never. All your examples are about exactl
Re:Google? (Score:1, Troll)
Re:Google? (Score:2)
Re:Google? (Score:2)
The sign of an unformed market is customers groaning. The sign of a formed market is when the customers sigh in contentment.
Does nobody else remember how frickin' useless search engines were before Google?
That quote brings to mind the phrase.... (Score:5, Insightful)
And I'm not sure who I dislike more at this point.
At least Microsoft hasn't been handing political prisoners over to the Chinese government [slashdot.org].
Re:That quote brings to mind the phrase.... (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ART
Re:That quote brings to mind the phrase.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:That quote brings to mind the phrase.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Amnesty International disagrees with you: [guardian.co.uk] They just didn't get caught as badly as Yahoo did.
So - feel free to dislike them both.
That sound bite is gonna come back and bite ya (Score:4, Insightful)
I dunno, that sounds similar to the boasts made by almost every large company head right before they get their ass handed to them by someone.
Re:That sound bite is gonna come back and bite ya (Score:2)
I don't think that word means what you think it means Mr. Yahoo.
Re:That sound bite is gonna come back and bite ya (Score:2)
Re:That sound bite is gonna come back and bite ya (Score:1)
Re:That sound bite is gonna come back and bite ya (Score:2, Interesting)
640k ought to be enough for anyone
computers of the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons
and my favorite
I think there is a world market for maybe five computers
What the article left out (Score:1)
It was spoken in Klingon, in a tone usually reserved before the drawing of bat'leths.
So let's see... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:So let's see... (Score:2)
Re:So let's see... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:So let's see... (Score:2)
I don't know, YaMShooN has got kind of a ring to it.
Transcription of dialogue... (Score:5, Funny)
Y! Rep: Oh no you dit'in! Oh no you dit'in! (gesticulates the talk-to-the-hand)
Stupid (Score:5, Insightful)
TWW
Re:Stupid (Score:2)
- Yahoo wasn't in the search business before google (they used outsourced providers and have only recently bought / brought "search" in-house)
- There are (presumably) reasonably large fixed costs to search (ie: database of the entire internet)
- MSN is at a *stable* distant third place (~15% market share) even with all their inherent microsofty advantages
- MSN have no stable base of advertisers (to hel
Re:Stupid (Score:1)
Re:Stupid (Score:2)
They didn't say that Microsoft had high revenues. They said that Microsoft had high cash reserves. Most companies don't maintain $33 billion cash reserves, both because that would make them takeover targets (the buyer can borrow against the cash reserves when making the purchase) and because share holders generally insist on getting the money in the form of dividends.
Btw, Microsoft has similar profits to Wal-Mart. Some quick googling fo
Re:Stupid (Score:1)
Target did not make 50 billion last year. They aren't even *worth* fifty billion. They had fifty billion in revenue, but only 4.3 billion in profit. MSFT had 14.5 billion in profit.
Re:Stupid (Score:2)
No, I meant their huge cash reserve. Unless you count banks then MS is pretty well the richest, and unlike banks it's their money too.
TWW
My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google (Score:4, Insightful)
Search is hard.
Look at every other product that Microsoft made. It doesn't really require any genius-level intuition to solve or anything like that. It's ordinary, straightforward implementations that are being done. Back in the day it would have taken a genius, but Microsoft got to borrow ideas that have been published by other people. Further, they don't even do it well. Their primary concern is getting it done and filling it with lots of features. That's not going to work for search.
I would put it to you that it is very difficult to come up with a way of doing something that works well when the thing you want to do is hard, and that, in general, throwing money at it doesn't help.
If you are to prove to me that Microsoft's giagantinormous size is going to do it for them, then tell me about their track-record of genius.
Re:My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google (Score:1)
Sure it is! Remember, 'disk compression was hard' in it's time, too. So have a lot of 'solved problem' tasks that are now now surmounted.
RTFC (Score:2)
Back in the day it would have taken a genius, but Microsoft got to borrow ideas that have been published by other people.
No one's published how Google is doing search. It's a trade secret. It won't be hard the moment that they do.
Re:RTFC (Score:2)
Re:RTFC (Score:3, Interesting)
So far MSN Search/Windows Live Search is worst of the three big players when it comes to relevance. But they're not
Re:My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google (Score:2)
Re:My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google (Score:2)
Re:My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google (Score:3, Interesting)
And here is the premise with which we disagree.
Google does a good job, but it's difficult to find what you're looking for in any of the other major search engines.
And I'm positive you can't get results like theirs with simple bayesian filtering.
What you don't seem to be grasping is that search is artificial intelligence. It's saying "given these search parameters, what am I REALLY looking to find?
Re:My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google (Score:2)
www.isis-online.org/ (6 on google, 6 on live, 3 and 4 on yahoo (since they put pages from same domain as seperate entry)
en.wikipedia.org (1 on google, 1 on yahoo, NA on live (they really do need to give much more priority to wikipedia as it is now so useful)
www.space-rockets.com (4 on google, 1 on live, NA on yahoo)
remtc.com/ (5 on
Re:My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google (Score:3, Insightful)
You'll look long and hard for a slow-loading Google page. I suppose you could bloat your own. You won't find even PNGs, let alone blinking banners or flash. What happens when you follow that nice "More..." button on MSN and Yahoo? After Google, theirs just seem lame. Got a box that will run Google Earth? Google do awe-inspiring things and give them away. Sure they're going to make money. That's how they s
Re:My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google (Score:3, Informative)
Check out these if you haven't for awhile MSN [msn.com] and Yahoo [yahoo.com]. I don't think you'll see anything like your talking about.
I certainly love Google and thier practices, but I was just speaking about search technology and how they are basically identical (see my post to reply just before yours).
BTW, don't talk about Google Earth like that, your just asking f
Re:My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google (Score:2)
I didn't address the search result quality because others had already done that. I agree they're often comparable, but Google is IMTrulyHO better at filtering out the crap.
Terraserver afaict doesn't do what Earth does. You tried it? That 3D flying thing is utterly cool, and it has global coverage. It's not at all hard to get a LEO view at 768K (you might have to do it slow if you want all the detail, but still)
Re:My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google (Score:2)
Re:My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google (Score:1)
Search is quite hard as the engine has not only to interpret what the user is asking, but also interpret what the pages are trying to convey - thus, as fireboy1919 [slashdot.org] pointed out - it is very much AI, and a very problematic one at that.
Search would be a lot easier if we had linguistic AI's alread
Re:My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google (Score:2, Insightful)
Thats exactly why Yahoo have decided not to do a deal with Microsoft at this time. Any search engine with a significant share of the market will see whats happened to Microsoft "partners" in the past. If MS get a foothold, next step for them will be to use their desktop leverage, partne
Re:My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google (Score:2, Insightful)
Just like the fact the general market has chosen to use Windows the general market has chosen Google to search with. It doesnt really matter if you have a MSN search tool in the corner of your address bar because at the end of the day even myself w
Re:My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google (Score:1)
try "google search engine" or "wp search engine" in Firefox, however I doubt IE offers these shortcuts...
It's a nice shortcut for googling that comes standard as well.
Re:My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google (Score:1)
Their results are getting better all the time. In a time where Google is having troubles staying up to date and MSN search is still lacking, it seems the others must be afraid. The newest public sign of results can be seen on http://www.alltheweb.com/ [alltheweb.com] with the Yahoo powered Live search.
I'm not applauding them nor affiliated with them, all I'm saying is tha
Re:My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google (Score:1)
I don't even really look at Yahoo as Search... (Score:2)
Other things like Launchcast, albeit Windows-only, only reinforce that view.
Obviously there's a search engine behind it to bring it all together, but I honestly see them as more a content provider.
Re:My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google (Score:2)
M$ had the will and bottomless resources to acquire Intuit
Really why should they? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Really why should they? (Score:1)
Re:Really why should they? (Score:1)
So.. Yahoo rejects Microsoft. In other news.. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:So.. Yahoo rejects Microsoft. In other news.. (Score:2)
Oh.. Boot to the Head.
Re:So.. Yahoo rejects Microsoft. In other news.. (Score:1)
Pretty obvious stance... (Score:3, Interesting)
Yahoo is receiving more than twice their traffic, and likely ad revenue potential as well.
There'd be a lot to win for Microsoft if joining forces with Yahoo, but I'm not sure Yahoo would sacrifice their image. If their managers have any sense, they know it's important to preserve your identity, especially if you're quite far ahead.
This just looks like a cry for help from Microsoft's side, now that their second (?) "Google Killer" with "Live Search" (a very idiotic name too; why not "Microsoft Search"?) has probably failed just as bad as their updated MSN Search they did a few years back.
Homepage (Score:5, Funny)
"And in a surprising move, Microsoft has chosen to make live.com the default homepage any new Internet Explorer installation."
Microsoft 1, Yahoo -screwed-
Re:Homepage (Score:1)
Re:Homepage (Score:2, Informative)
Should be even less of an issue, as the default firefox homepage is google.com
Should you not also have added to your comment "Firefox 1, yahoo -screwed-"?
Re:Homepage (Score:1)
Re:Homepage (Score:2)
If that happened, Yahoo! and Google just need to talk to the OEMs. Remember that most consumers buy computers, not operating systems. Yahoo! signs a deal with HP and there goes Microsoft's default homepage advantage.
"Google" is a verb. (Score:2)
Familiar (Score:2)
Because Microsoft's entire history hasn't been one of moving in to an area where other people have worked out how to do things and then doing them better/cheaper/faster.
Re:Familiar (Score:3, Interesting)
Microsoft loses money on almost everything else.
Every market they've tried to move into and make money on, they've failed.
They did pretty well against Netscape - giving away the browser seemed to kill their market completely, and thus kill Netscape. But Microsoft didn't make money on that. They lost money and killed a competitor.
But Google has a different model. They run internet advertising on the back of the best internet search engine.
Re:Familiar (Score:1)
And I contend that the 'breakthrough' at Google was that they scaled up and captured the market. There are no 'magic google sprinklies' that have caused their success. There's no 'magick' arcana that only Google understands. There is, though, a cult of Google mysticism, and a large following of mystic worshippers of the company, but that's typical of any operating religion. This site happens
Re:Familiar (Score:1)
Re:Familiar (Score:2)
Once they search, they throw unobtrusive ads at the searching user. Those are highly targetted, very valuable, ads.
When you go to msn.com and there is a blank page with a search box, you'll know they get it.
Re:Familiar (Score:1)
Re:Familiar (Score:2)
Re:Familiar (Score:1)
1) the next IE has an MSN search box built in
It does
2) defaults to MSN homepage
It does
3) And MSN search rivals Googles in its ability to return good results
Supposudly it's getting there, though I haven't tried it myself to say for sure.
I agree with you. This is going to get interesting. I personally don't think Microsoft will be able to knock out Google, but as long as they have Windows and Office, Microsoft can't really lose either. They can
Impartial??? (Score:1)
Re:Impartial??? (Score:1)
Specialize (Score:4, Insightful)
Look at ISO Hunt. They picked an area and really cached in on it.
My advice to MS: become the best video game search engine out there. It'd be really easy. Have a box to search and buttons to look for reviews, purchace, FAQs/walkthroughs, and cheats.
Hell, you could pick anything. But do one thing and do it really well.
Re:Specialize (Score:2)
I use it to search for product reviews and excluding the pages that are meant to sell the products.
Breaking News (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Breaking News (Score:1)
Re:Breaking News (Score:1)
A note was left on the body that stated "Google. This is what were going to do to you when we get though with you. We are going to fucking bury you! FUCKING BURY YOU!"
How are you gentlemen (Score:5, Funny)
When asked for comment, Google's representative, CATS, said, "Ohhh, no, no, no. All your search are belong to us."
Bull (Score:2, Insightful)
Well... (Score:2)
Impartial Advice? (Score:1)
Yeah, cuz he's got nothing to gain or lose in this battle... impartial my aunt Susie!
Re:Impartial Advice? (Score:1)
Probably not so much impartial in the area of the search business, though...more likely telling Microsoft that they have no chance of partnering with Yahoo - he doesn't have to think about it, and it's not about partiality - they're just not going to do it, so Microsoft should go pester someone else...Altavista, Lycos, Ex
Yahoo gives up search (Score:2)
Is that what he told his investment banker when... (Score:2)
Yahoo Rejects Microsoft Search Offer (Score:1)
In related news.... (Score:2)
Second toughest guy quotes "You have no chance bear, the tough person in bar market is formed"
Meanwhile the toughest buy in the bar is buying a shotgun and bear hunting license, and getting to a safer shooting distance.
Sony said the same thing about xbox (Score:2)
I don't even dare to search news for "sony" "xbox" etc, perhaps an actual console fan/user find a link for it.
Microsoft ignored the warning and the first story came after Xbox ships in Japan that it actually SCRATCHED a certain type of DVDs physically.
Phew (Score:1)
lets be serious here (Score:2)
Re:lets be serious here (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes. I live down the street from their new office in Santa Monica. They're competing well with Google on recruiting the sharpest people from other regional employers. Including three of my new neighbors who recently moved down here from Seattle.
Google isn't the only one successfully recruiting hot-shit developers from MS.
Regards,
Ross
LOL (Score:2)
Personal estimate, wait for 2 years and see for yourself.
Watch Terry comment this in this video interview. (Score:2)