Dell's Marketshare Decline Due to Intel? 275
timeOday writes "News.com reports that Dell's PC sales are growing more slowly than the overall PC market for the first time on record. Gartner's Charles Smulders blames Dell's decline on their allegiance to Intel, and cites Hewlett Packard's embrace of AMD as a key to their growing sales. Can Dell continue to shun AMD, or is a breakthrough imminent for the #2 chipmaker?"
Waitaminnit (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Waitaminnit (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Waitaminnit (Score:3, Interesting)
That seems to happen in short order with computer companies. I bought a Compaq back when they were good and got great tech support when I had some trouble with one. Now (IMHO) they suck ass. The same with Dell. The one I bought was really good, but I doubt I will ever buy one again. I don't know
Re:Waitaminnit (Score:2)
I wonder about that. (Score:3, Informative)
That being said, what did disturb me was the ordering process. Dell used to pride itself on having good knowledge of it's supply chain and streamlining their delivery.
I ordered on March 23rd. The expected delivery date when I first ordered was April 10. By the time I got the email confirmation it had become April 18th. Dell has a website where y
Re:I wonder about that. (Score:2)
The Gold support wasn't bad for the part that broke the first week I had the laptop, since it's onsite next day, but the call center "customer service" and order proces
Re:I wonder about that. (Score:2)
2. click small business
3. click software and accessories
4. click batteries
5. find your D810 in the list
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/ProductDetail.a spx?sku=310-5351&c=us&l=en&cs=04&category_id=5438& first=true&page=productlisting.aspx [dell.com]
Took less than 2 minutes of my time, what was your issue?
Re:I wonder about that. (Score:2)
Why can't anyone in Dell tell you if they have an item in stock or not? Every other retailer on the planet can.
Re:I wonder about that. (Score:2)
Re:I wonder about that. (Score:2)
If you grip the display with two hands and apply a little contortion, does the Dell still feel like it's held on by squeeky twist ties? That and the brittleness of the plastic used are the major factors keeping me away from Dell these days. It'll be nice when they fix these problems so there will be more substantial competition.
Re:I wonder about that. (Score:2)
Fact is, Dell's information on the manufacturing details of an order have always been BS. You don't really know what happened with your system, you only know the bogus information that was provided when you asked. Your machine was delivered 5 days earlier than initially promised, so what's the deal?
I can assure you, no system sits in the boxing stage for 3 days. That should have been a tipoff
Re:Waitaminnit (Score:5, Funny)
Dell has alienated their customer base
Well, now that they've bought Alienware, it's not surprising.
Re:Waitaminnit (Score:3, Informative)
I think they realized how bad their competition was and figured they could cut corners and still be better than the average PC maker. I think they are still better than the average PC maker, but only barely these days; that isn't enough to keep customers.
Re:Waitaminnit (Score:2)
Yes, I will agree that all of the large vendors are producing well below what they could, and Dell has come down to meet them in that regard. However, I haven't found a *better* vendor yet. Well, not at least one that I can afford to place on corporate desktops.
I await illumination.
ALL consumer computers by major vendors are shoddy (Score:4, Informative)
Of course hardware replacement is the exception rather than the rule, so generally, I am still comfortable recommending Dell with the caveat that they are better to pay for my support services than try to call Dell.
Re:ALL consumer computers by major vendors are sho (Score:2)
However, at the moment, we don't have the minimum number of dell certified technicians to qualify for the program.
Well, when people ask me (Score:4, Informative)
Back in the day, I might have recommended Dell. Their laptops were fairly well features, reliable, and competetively priced. Note that the AMD/Intel difference might place into the last factor nowadays...
Anyhow, my more recent experience with Dell has been just as indicated: they've ridden their previously decent reputation for awhile but now their crappy call-centres, incompatible parts, and not-so-great quality is starting to bite them. Dell computers are getting more and more cheap nowadays, and that's in quality as well as price.
Now let's look at some of the others:
- IBM systems (up until Lenovo, who I don't have too much experience with recently) are generally reliable but less-featured (esp with the small HDD sizes)... still I'd say they are or were good for the office types who wanted a system that would keep on ticking.
- I haven't had many problems with Toshiba laptops, other than the gazillion little tray icons that the have loading at startup to control the touchpad/wireless/burner/etc settings. I turn most of the unnecessary ones off though, and lots of laptops have 'em... so no biggy. The newer laptops seem a bit more thin/plasticy though so I'll be keeping an eye on them, but they've been good so far other than a few here at the office that have been shitkicked (big big scuffing marks).
- HP: Well, I'm using one now. I've got one at home. The home model (ZD7000) has a built-in defect wherein it doesn't like having two sticks of RAM in with high-memory graphics/etc applications (spontaneous reboots). Not great, but that's the only model where I've seen that issue and haggling with HP eventually scored me a free 1GB stick of RAM for that laptop. It works fine for me, and despite being lugged around regularly it's been durable. My office-style work compaq (NX8220) aside from giving me nightmares configuring the ATI graphics card, has been both reliable and durable as well. AMD64 processors in the newer compaqs (and me being a linux user) scores personal points and recommendations for other linux users (such as at work), but not recommendations for the windows users. Compaq laptops also were known to be not great in quality before, but that seems to have quite improved with HP making them.
- Acer: You get what you pay for. Acer's have quite a lot of features for your buck. I've also seen generations spanning three years that had consistant power unit/modulator issues, and quite a few with screen burnout. However, I might add that I do have a (non-laptop) Acer LCD at home, and it's holding up nicely, so maybe they're improving in that area... however the plasticy feel and the rumours I've heard about HDD burnout make me tend to say "whatever you get, try to avoid Acer" to most people who ask advice.
- Sony: When you buy Sony, you're buying a brandname. And proprietary parts. And a sinking brandname. Overpriced and underperforming are usually two good words
Now, back to desktops. I haven't seen too many Dells explode lately but when I do look in them I find relatively cheap parts (motherboard) and massive compatability issues with standard parts. Floppy drives won't fit properly behind the happy little Dell bezels, power supplies can be funk or custom, and sometimes even PCI/etc cards don't seem to go in right. Sure, you can buy a cheap Dell machine, but upgrading or adding/repairing any parts is oftimes a major pain.
I wouldn't actively recommend against Dell, but I'd still advise caution to potential Dell buyers, and that's a step down from the days when I happily promoted how my little Dell laptops kept on kickin' (hell, some of the older P-II era ones are outlasting the more current gens)
You can on
Re:Well, when people ask me (Score:2)
So, what the fuck are we supposed to get?
Use your brain (Score:2)
Re:Waitaminnit (Score:2, Insightful)
The decline in marketshare is a result of several things:
They don't sell AMD, they outsourced their call centers to india, the competitors is getting more competitive etc..
It's not just one of the above
Re:Waitaminnit (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Waitaminnit (Score:5, Insightful)
The likely reason for slowed growth is that PCs are lasting longer. We have 5 year old PCs that are still very usable, step back a few years and the upgrade cycles were faster as the tech moved along. Things have been static for a while now, anything over 800Mhz is good enough for most modern applications and a fair amount of games.
Perhaps the real reason for the slow down is the Vista delay. There is no external push from Microsoft to force people through a refresh to get the latest toys.
Jason.
Re:Waitaminnit (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Waitaminnit (Score:4, Insightful)
According to TFA, the PC market is growing very nicely thank you (13.1% in the last quarter worldwide, 7.4% in the US), and Dell's competitors (particularly HP) are benefiting. But Dell's growth was only 10.2% worldwide, and only 0.2% in the US. TFA goes on to say that for several years Dell has grown substantially faster than the overall market, so this year's change is significant.
Re:Waitaminnit (Score:2)
I suspect that Dell's problems don't have anything to do with which CPU's they sell, but rather the fact that they have saturated their market niche-- that of the low-cost alternative for corporate servers and workstations. These markets are still the majority of their business, but they are markets that are slowing and have been for a while faster than the consumer markets.
Dell has really dropped the ball on consumer support. This is not an insoluble problem from a business o
Re:Waitaminnit (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Waitaminnit (Score:5, Insightful)
"The likely reason for slowed growth is that PCs are lasting longer.".
This is valid point but it affects overall PC market not only one brand. The article states following:
And Dell wonders (Score:4, Insightful)
Perhaps (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Perhaps (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Perhaps (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Perhaps (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Perhaps (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Perhaps (Score:5, Insightful)
Good people cost money.
Heck even bad people cost money.
Re:Perhaps (Score:2)
Re:Perhaps (Score:2)
Think about what you just said. The large enterprise customers are the ones that are willing to pay for the good support. Although I know my friend still does notebook support now and then for small business. I know because he talked to a customer of mine!
That was kind of freaky.
Re:Perhaps (Score:2)
You get a different level of service when you can say "give me good service or next year I'll be taking my 5000 unit
Re:Perhaps (Score:2, Insightful)
True. I like to say : You might actually get "up to" what you pay for, and maybe less than what you paid for, but you damn sure ~won't~ get what you ~don't~ pay for. ("usually")
Re:Perhaps (Score:3, Funny)
Heck even bad people cost money.
But Americans cost the most money.
Dell should outsource to Canada, eh?
Or maybe an Australian accent on the phone would be more fun.
That's not localized... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Perhaps (Score:2)
I don't mind my call being outsourced (provided he is competant), but what I can't stand is being lied to. And when he claims his name is Bill, I know he's lying. Why can't they be honest and use their real first names? Its not as if I can't tell that he is from India.
Re:Perhaps (Score:2)
As for getting ticked at a customer service operator giving you a false name (if he did), why would you care anyway? It may even be that they encourage employees to use America
Re:Perhaps (Score:2)
Re:Perhaps (Score:3, Informative)
Yet it is interesting that Dell sells AMD processors off its website, and also offer AMD systems for certain customers in the server market. Looks like Dell's been sleeping around..
Re:Perhaps - You are so Wrong, HP is also in India (Score:2, Interesting)
Marketing Failure (Score:5, Interesting)
Dell is only failing because they expect Intel to do all their work for them. If they want people to get back on board they'll have to convince them that their systems perform well.
Their models are so unlinked to the processors that they carry that this will be a disaster for dell to handle simply because they have a stupid branding scheme. Moving to AMD wont help dell, but solidifying their position will.
This whole summary is based on a false premise. I for one think it's absolutely absurd to suggest that following Hewlett Packard's business plan is a good idea. If you do that everyone will just think you're the other HP.
Re:Marketing Failure (Score:2)
OK, go out on the street and ask 100 people what kind of processor they have in their computer, and their relative opinion regarding its solidity and power.
Most people know that there is Intel. They don't known the difference between a Celeron, Pentium M, Pentium III, Pentium IV, etc.
Granted, some of the 100 will sat that their processor is not solid and powerful, but odds are its the spyware and other crap runni
Re:Marketing Failure (Score:2)
On that same token though, they do know that they just spent between $500 - $2000 USD on a PC and it's kind of slower then they expected. First Dell could get rid of all the free* crapware installed and second, to get back on topic, give some m
Re:Marketing Failure (Score:2)
Re:Marketing Failure (Score:2)
I'm just saying that marketing to home users based on processor specs or even brand is not rea
Re:Marketing Failure (Score:2)
Not really. IT Managers has had extreme misgivings about AMD's platform support over the years, tend to be very conservative, and are strongly in the Intel camp. (Because deploying VIA drivers on 1000 PCs is no fun.) Maybe that's softening a little, but it still holds true. Meanwhile, Slashdotters for the most part are whole-hog AMD simply because of the pr
Has their reputation has caught up with them? (Score:5, Interesting)
Dell has always used very marginal hardware in several levels of their lineup. Perhaps this is what has caught up with them. Another company who used to sell well until their reputation caught up with them was Packard Bell. If you keep shipping inferior product, at some point you will get called on it.
Now, does it hurt that they need to keep prices high in order to offer genuine Intel Inside PCs? You bet. But that's just a straw on the camel's back. It was the heavy load that broke the camel in the first place.
Re:Has their reputation has caught up with them? (Score:2, Informative)
Actually, having just NOT purchased from Dell, I think it goes further than anyone being able to provide easy configuration. It may not be conscious, but Dell is actively working against easy configuration.
A few years ago, it was easy to get what you wanted - start by selecting the processor, and select upgrade options from there.
No longer.
Today
Re:Has their reputation has caught up with them? (Score:3, Interesting)
We have about 20 Dells here, been reliable, but one hard drive died (6 months old, 3 year warranty), so their tech came out to our office and replaced the drive, then STARTED the install of the OS and left a note saying that is all he is responsible for. Just disappeared
I choose AMD over Dell (Score:2)
I buy a HP laptop, even if it doesn't have all the goodies (dvi out) I want, but it have the faster/cheaper/64bit/cleaner processor !
dell's reputation (Score:3, Insightful)
Hmm (Score:2)
Ummm...didn't AMD beat Intel in sales last year on their CPU? What makes them the #2 chipmaker? Last I heard, AMD was beating the pants off Intel and Intel was playing the chase game.
Personaly, I would never buy a Dell. I would also never buy an Alienware machine. Those things are way too overpriced. I built my own machine that at the time was as powerful and then some as Alienware's top machine for half the price. Al
Re:Hmm (Score:2)
Re:Hmm (Score:3, Interesting)
Also, I want to know why everyone thinks Dell is awesome. They're just notebooks from Sagers manufacturing lines (http://sagernotebooks.com/ [sagernotebooks.com] and relabeled.
Just buy a Sager directly, skip the Dell process, and you can score an AMD Turion, X2, or heck, even a 7900Go SLI laptop, which is excessive and inane if you ask me, but, Sager seems to be where the real power lies these days.
Re:Hmm (Score:2)
Re:Hmm (Score:2)
Re:Hmm (Score:2)
Re:Hmm (Score:2)
Poor Desktop Prices? (Score:3)
Re:Poor Desktop Prices? (Score:2)
Re:Poor Desktop Prices? (Score:2)
The real question is (Score:2)
I don't think it is intel. (Score:3, Interesting)
The question I have, is how could Dell sales NOT slow down?
Disposable computers (Score:2)
Anecdotal evidence: a friend had a Dell P2. A vanilla version of that board supported a P3 processor, but Dell's BIOS gave him an error message saying it did not. We suspected that it was because Dell wanted to sell more P3 machines (higher margin) than proc upgrades.
Re:I don't think it is intel. (Score:2)
Customer Service (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Customer Service (Score:3, Interesting)
A 2.2Ghz intel processor with 128 megs of RAMBUS ram running Windows ME with no antivirus. I inherited it after they died (probably from frustration), and it would have cost me 700 dollars to upgrade the ram to the point where I could have a use for it (512 megs). I threw it away and built a better box with 2 gigs of ram and a fa
Basic economic law (Score:2)
Discounts (Score:2)
What the public isn't aware of, however, is that these "huge discounts" just bring the price down to what it should have been in the first place. But they don't know that. They just see that they are getting a $2000 machine for $1250. And those poor souls (pun intended) who ne
Dell sells well (Score:2)
$359.00 pIV 2.53 512mb ram 160gb hd Single Drive: 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write capability 17 inch E773 (16 inch viewable) Conventional CRT
match that- at any retailer for NEW equipment, with a 1 year warranty..
I've seen similar or lesser with 15"lcd's...
Re:Discounts (Score:2)
Sounds likely anyway. (Score:3, Insightful)
I've been personally responsible for many system purchases that didn't involve the Intel tax. In all of these cases the computer I recommended worked just as well for the person as it would've with an Intel (if not better), and they saved money. So while there might be only a few geeks that know which processor is more worth your buck, they are the ones making the buying decisions for others in a lot of cases. Dell never accounts for this factor. And in short, it's performance/price ratio stupid... At least offer your customers a choice.
hmmm wonder if this is part of why? (Score:2)
~~~~ On Dell's Web site, the XPS series is marketed directly to gamers and high-performance power users. The XPS series is under the gaming tag, and they claim right on the front page of the Dell.com site that, "We take your gaming experience as seriously as you do." The next line: "XPS show just how serious we are" is more telling. If the Dimension XPS400 is any indication, Dell considers computer gamers a joke. Harsh, yes. But we t
Re:hmmm wonder if this is part of why? (Score:2)
All of this brings the running processes down to a more reasonable level - about 4
Dell Dude's Denunciation Drives Dell's Decline (Score:3, Funny)
Apple to be the New Dell? (Score:5, Insightful)
Back in the 8088s - 286 days IBM was King of the PCs By the 386-486 Gateway Became king then Pentium Dell took over. It wasn't because of price At the time each respective vender was priced a bit more the the rest. Then after they became king of the mountain the only way they could still compete (More) is by price shaving which lowered its quality so The next guy came in selling a higher quality product at a slightly higher price and the customers were happy with it and by word of mouth they became #1.
I remember people going I am going to get a Gateway because I heard they are reliable for their 486. Then by 1999 I hear people go Next Time I am going to get a Dell because this Gateway is a piece of crap (after having to swap 3 drives and a motherboard) In a year. Now Dells quality is getting more and more shaky and their support is getting more cheap. So who will be the next Dell? Right now the best I am hearing that Apple Computers while may cost a bit more are of better quality and with the Intel Chips you can put windows on it as a fail safe emotional device. But It could also be HP/Compaq turn if they get on the Gun and made better PCs. I originally had AlienWare as the next Dell but Dell just bought them so who knows. But I don't think AMD has anything to do with it, it is about Quality not manufactures.
HP vs Dell (Score:3, Interesting)
Maybe with Fiorino gone, things are changing, but HP was once a company I trusted to produce quality hardware. Now, it doesn't matter whether it's printers, PCs, servers or anything else, HP is the LAST company I look to.
One example: I bought an HP multimedia USB keyboard from someone on Ebay. Because it was a keyboard that shipped with a 'consumer' system, and HP only supported Win '98 and XP on their 'consumer' systems, there was no windows 2000 driver support for the features on this keyboard. Later, I upgraded to XP, but HP at that time had no drivers available for download for the keyboard.
Another: windows-only printers and printers that when you try to locate drivers on HPs site, you are told that they are no longer available, for printers that are less than 5 years old.
A few years ago, my opinion was the opposite... Dell servers simply couldn't start to compete with Compaq. They were beefed-up PCs. It's funny, because now the reverse is true. Their servers and office PCs are fantastic machines, but they're playing catch-up in the home, as customizations, see-thru cases, light-up fans, etc, have become more popular. The business world IS saturated, as well as tired of having to upgrade. Now that XP has been around for a while, and nothing new is on the horizon for the near-term, I think businesses are going to operate in maintenance mode until Vista and the next upgrade cycle begins. That's going to hurt Dell more, because they're the largest office PC supplier.
Re:HP vs Dell (Score:2)
As for business servers, no WAY would I use Dell. They just are not as managable, and the parts change all the time. When I deploy new servers, I have them shipped direct to the data center, where a tech racks them and powers it on. 15 minutes later I get an automated email telling me that the server is installed and rea
Dude... (Score:3, Funny)
The processor makes no difference to most (Score:2)
I believe the nature of the problem is in two areas:
1. I don't see Dell commercials on TV lately. Is it just me?
2. Dell outsources a great deal of their support out of the country. It's a HUGE annoyance to customers. They tried it with corporate support once. Corporations started switching
Easy to Find Out (Score:2)
Easy to find out. Sell one competative, AMD-based, Dell supported, model and see how it turns out.
A rational business would trial this.
A rich business can afford to test this.
Only a stupid business would avoid this.
I mean, it's not like asking Ford to put Chevy engines into their Mustangs because that's not what consumers are demanding.
Consumers are demanding AMD processors. I know this because that's what I'm demanding.
What can kill Dell (Score:2)
Re:What can kill Dell (Score:2)
Profit or market share? (Score:2)
Incorrect analysis (Score:2)
They HAVE to grow more slowly, see: arithmetic (Score:2)
On the other hand, if your company has 17% of the market, and everybody else has smaller pieces, then it's really really hard to grow.
Basic arithmetic.
Conroe launch (Score:2)
Re:HP? (Score:2)
Sadly though HP/Compaq
Re:HP? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:HP? (Score:2)
As do I, however as long as people choose to pay someone $80 to install RAM in their systems it's a safe bet that they're not in the market to build their own.
It's those people that such a market for Dell/HP/etc. even exists.
My buddy bought some RAM for his computer not long ago and had the shop install it. When he told me how much it cost him I damn near shit my pants. When I opened up his computer and *showed* him what they did for that money, he followed my
Re:HP? (Score:3, Funny)
I tried that, but the duct tape covered up part of the LCD panel and when the hard drive got warm, the hot-glue melted and the hard drive and battery fell out.
I finally just bought a used Dell CP-600 (PIII/850) for $250. I dunno, maybe laptops are rocket science.Laptop or desktop (Score:2)
However, my experience with HP/Compaq is that quite a few laptop models are actually pretty good... and compaq has come up in quality from what it was in the laptop market.
Re:HP? (Score:2)
Re:HP? (Score:2)
Or maybe because they're not upgradable (Score:4, Insightful)
I understand that Dell would like you to simply replace the box more often, that's in their own interest. But it's in my own interest not to recommend Dell to people to whom I provide "informal" tech support.