Spam and Spyware Too Much for Some Users 888
stewart_maximus writes "Spam and spyware is annoying to everyone, but some users are giving up on the Internet (mirror). Any Slashdot readers know someone who pulled the plug in frustration? Any advice for frustrated users, especially non-technical users?"
Give up net!? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Give up net!? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Give up net!? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Give up net!? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Give up net!? (Score:4, Insightful)
I've shoved firefox/t-bird down many throats. Most have recovered and are back online.
Re:Give up the Adminis-traitor account (Score:4, Informative)
I'm not. I recently supervised the purchase of a new laptop for my mother, and since it was a fresh machine I set up a separate administrator account, told her never to use it except when installing software and/or windows updates. I installed firefox and t'bird, explained about spyware and that unless software is open-source there's no such thing as a free lunch. And she took it all in and that was fine
The moral is: if you want to run without root privileges on Windows, you're going to have to put up with a heap of annoying crap. And that's assuming that the user is informed enough to even realise that there's such a thing as "administrator" and that they're set up by default to run as that - there's nothing under the WinXP setup that I saw that alerts users to the need to run as a non-privileged user.
That's not funny, it's how I feel! (Score:5, Interesting)
But I've known several people who have given up on the internet because of spam, nevermind spyware.
My wife is one. She really doesn't care for computers much. She only started using email when I was in Europe on business for a week, and our schedules made phone calls difficult. She liked it enough to keep using it, but she never used it much. So when she was getting several hundred spams a week, vs 1 or 2 real emails a week, she just gave up. She goes to the Yelow Pages and information and calling friends rather than using the web. I can't say that I blame her.
I think the best thing we can do is apply 19th century Texas justice. We can start with the UT student they just busted. If he's guilty, string him up from the highest light pole on I35 for the whole world to see. Run it on every news program for a week; ``Spammers, we're coming for you.''
These guys are costing us hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars, and wasting the single, most precious commodity we have -- time. By intergalactic ore hauler loads.
Advice To The Netlorn (Score:4, Interesting)
Oh, there's lots of great things to see and do on the 'net, but there's so much predation by more scum than even Mos Eisley would see on a good day that newbies must be inoculated before exposing themselves to it.
A firewall, virus scanning and quite a lot of gorm, to avoid spam scams. I'm almost to the point of telling, not merely suggesting, people to skip it if there isn't some damn good reason to be on the 'net.
Oh, and don't use Microsoft Explorer or Outlook or <Marvin Martian Voice> you'll be sorry, very sorry indeed.</Marvin Martian Voice> Getting on the 'net with good tools is a must and keeping up on them is also a must. Some degree of technical understanding is also essential, to identify when something is out of the ordinary, i.e. that request to verify your bank account goes to some ip address instead of yourback.com and where to go to keep up on the latest tools and information to protect oneself.
In the end, visiting or maintaining a presence on the internet is a job, not just an adventure, which requires some effort by the user to protect themselves.
Re:Advice To The Netlorn (Score:5, Insightful)
Be upset at MSFT for the spyware, trojans, and worms. Be upset at the little bastards that make this shit. Be upset at yourself for not properly protecting yourself. But certainly do no blame Dell and do not blame your Cable provider as they aren't at fault.
We are in a time period of blaming everyone else for our problems. Personally, I spent the time protecting myself and my network from issues. Yeah, they could probably still come through but I have at least closed most of the holes that I know of. If you are on the Internet without a hardware router/firewall and using software without a software firewall and surfing the web without virus protection and Spyware detection I really don't feel sorry for you.
For the person that they quoted at the beginning of the article saying that he was playing Pong and had the first desktop on his block... I'm sure he knew what he had to do to protect himself. He was just too lazy to do so.
Gerald Stark, 52, trained on computers in school and in the Navy before starting a small cleaning business in Lisbon Falls, Maine.....A virus killed one machine. Then spyware infested the next one, wiping out a year's worth of receipt records.
No, Gerald lost his receipt records. Why weren't there adequate backups? Why didn't he keep the originals for 7 years? Why didn't he have multiple off-site backups in a format like TXT or CSV which is not vulnerable?
People need to protect themselves and stop asking the government to do it for them. LEARN to use a computer, LEARN how to protect yourself, and LEARN not to be stupid.
Not everyone can know everything but at least know the basics and you will be a lot better off.
Re:Advice To The Netlorn (Score:3, Interesting)
Admins here use to brag about their uptimes for their servers, but today they take them down every couple of days for updates and patches. yet still worms and viruses are sneaking in even with well trained staff.
Gerald Stark, did quite well for a non techie user. He had the correct anti spyware/virus/ software and 2 firewalls. My guess is the crackers were ahead of the anti spyware and virus companies. I remember reading here on slashdot about an interview with a cracker who wrote worms
Re:Advice To The Netlorn (Score:3, Interesting)
Because he lost and entire year's worth of receipts. Thus he was not backing them up on a regular basis. Hell, he wasn't even backing them up on a monthly basis. Thus there is no excuse.
You don't need a fancy backup solution to store receipts. You need a bunch of floppies, a Zip disk, or even a
Re:Advice To The Netlorn (Score:3, Insightful)
That's not completely true. Today's "standard" desktop usually comes with at least a cd burner, if not a CD/DVD burner. The majority of burning software that is include has some type of backup feature. Not to mention most users burn disks all the time (i.e. photo's, duping CD's, MP3's, etc.) Unfortunately, they never seem to backup all there important data, like business receipts.
Maybe I'm being whiny, but.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Advice To The Netlorn (Score:4, Insightful)
You know who deserves a large chunk of the blame for SPAM in my honest opinion?
The 1% of the people who respond to it. For without them, there would be no spam at all.
Re:Advice To The Netlorn (Score:3, Insightful)
The real solution is to beat it through the heads of small (and not-so-small) businessmen everywhere that you get get rich by paying a spammer. When that happens, the problem will disappear.
Re:Advice To The Netlorn (Score:3, Funny)
They won't do that, but give them credit for warning you right up front not to use it underwater and not to chew on the cord and not to put the plastic bag over your head.
Re:Advice To The Netlorn (Score:3, Insightful)
Like what sell PC's preloaded with a Linux distro? Please! I'll probably get mod'ed as a troll, but I am so tired of this argument. Dell probably would LOVE to sell Linux preloaded on all of there desktops. Unfortunately the marketplace will not support that business model. The average user does not wnat to learn how to use Linux. The average user is compfortable using WinBlow$.
If Dell was to drop the WinBlow$ market and go strictly open source, they would lose over 90% o
Much simpler advice (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Much simpler advice (Score:3, Informative)
Next time my parents and friends of a less geek-ish persuasion decide to upgrade, the new Mini Mac is going to be the only one I will continue to provide free tech support for - which means, as I've learned, hardly any tech support at
Re:Advice To The Netlorn (Score:5, Insightful)
I had the pleasure recently to help a couple friends of my wife with their "slow as molasses" computer. They paid for sushi, so I said ok.
The box was Win ME Dell box from 2000, dialup.
Running ad-aware netted me 1400 nasties. The viruses (oh yes they were there) would not go away. They had not upgraded Norton Antivirus since their 1 year membership ended, in 2001.
So I took the box with me, to my business partners' and while I was working on code, he:
*Installed Nic card
*reformatted
*put Win2k pro
*drivers
*windows upgrade
*openoffice 1.4
*firefox
*Zone Alarm
*Adobe Acrobat Reader
*ad-aware
*spy-bot
The machine ran great, snappy, everything was hunky dorey.
And he gave them an unopened boxed Norton System Works 2004.
Then, I took the box back to my house, had the husband of the couple come over, and took 1 hour writing down, on paper, the dos and don'ts.
*Use Firefox for browsing the web
*Don't use Internet Explorer except for windows update
*Run windows update once a month
*Run Antivirus update once a month (they're on dialup remember?)
*Do not download email to your computer, use Yahoo mail.
*NEVER install any installation CDs from internet service providers.
He took the computer home, and we haven't heard a word from them.
My wife is pissed now because the wife didn't even say thank you. I'm okay because they just don't know.
But I already know what I will find when I go to their house next time:
They installed the MSN cd.
They are using IE.
They did not run any windows updates.
They did not even install the antivirus software.
They are using microsoft outlook express
They have viruses and spyware on their computer.
I told my wife: Computer security work for people she volunteers me for is $375USD per hour.
I have a great analogy, which I told here on slashdot before:
If all car mechanics replaced car engines for free when they break, why would anybody ever have an oil change done?
The only reason people change their oil is because a cracked engine block will cost them between $2,000 and $15,000.
So when someone comes and begs for you to "fix their PC", tell them it's a $1,000 flat. They'll come back and say: "But I can buy another pc for less than that!" And you reply: "Excellent! You do that. Now let me go back to my movie."
And if they say you are mean, ask them if their mechanic will fix their car engine for free.
Re:Advice To The Netlorn (Score:3, Insightful)
I cleaned up a computer like this once, then trained the user in firewalls, anti-virus, and anti-spam/spyware. I also told him where he got the spyware and viruses in the first place - audiogalaxy, porn sites, and free movie stream sites. I told him first off, if a site wants to automatically install software on your system without saying "download x software to view this site properly, it
Re:Advice To The Netlorn (Score:5, Insightful)
The guy from main had 2 firewalls, spyware and antivirus software. Still 1 machine had a virus that killed it that the vendor was behind on, and the second had spyware that brought it down to its knees. I think as a (l)user he did a fairly good job and a huge effort compared to 90% of the internet users.
He lost all his reciepts for his business purchases and vows never to buy anything online again. Ouch but can you blame him?
The fact is its out of control and a firewall wont protect your system if you recieve an email that is written in html and has some javascript exploit to install some worm. You do not even have to read any attachments. Just read it.
But another point is why should users spend so many resources learning, buying firewalls, using windowsUpdate, updating anti virus software, and keep updating lavasoft? Yes users need to take precautions of course but what is happening is just silly. I spend at least 2 hours a week updating my computer at home now.
I for one is nervous about doing ecommerce on the internet even on firefox. How do I know my machine is not infecting and not telling me? I even have two installations of Windows and one is used to watch porn and listen to music. I do not trust my files and think they could be infected.
I find spyware all the time on my systems and most of the time the anti spyware and virus software is a few weeks behind.
Yes like changing oil in your car a user should be minimally educated but we need drastic action. Either start procecuting these people are work on adding extensions to IPV6 to have better tracking and better security so admins and ISP's can block most of this.
I fear though DRM will be trounced soon by the likes of MS and the net and ecommerce communities will rejoice since it will finally stop unathorized software to be installed by these pesky hackers.
If we in the hacker community do not take care of it they will and take away your rights in return.
Re:Advice To The Netlorn (Score:3, Insightful)
How? I use firefox for web, outlook for email, and run a regular hardware firewall. No spyware, ever (apart from Kazaa ages ago). You need to figure out what the infection vector is, because you don't need to be getting all this crap.
bill (Score:4, Funny)
yeah we know, it's called internet explorer
Microsoft Antispyware (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d
And i must say, it works easyer then ad-aware or Spybot. And works BETTER then ad-aware and spybot..
Just a thought..
Re:Microsoft Antispyware (Score:2, Informative)
Yes (Score:3, Insightful)
You don't have an excuse now. Get the minimac. It will suffice for many people (sure, _some_ people just have to have those silly apps that only work in windows, for them, the future is not so bright).
The choice is obvious.
Silly Apps? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Silly Apps? (Score:5, Funny)
Well gosh, Apple should get right on that before they lose all those home users who simply want to send email, surf the web, and make industry-grade schematic diagrams of skyscrapers.
Re:Silly Apps? (Score:3, Interesting)
My wife wants to get a second computer for the living area (as I use our current computer mostly all the time for business etc.) and I'm trying to convince her to either get a Mac, Linux or if she *must* have Windows to keep it off the Internet.
She won't budge mainly because of games. Our kids have a bunch of little kid games that only run on Windows
Re:Silly Apps? (Score:2)
For the vast majority of people (most of whom only need web browser, email, office suite, maybe tax/financial software, some basic photo/video/audio manipulation), OS X will work just fine.
Re:Yes (Score:3, Insightful)
Besides, if everyone followed your advice and got a Mac, Apple's desktop market share would go up. If Macs had a significant market share on the desktop, you can be damn sure spyware makers will start writing little presents for you guys too
Stop humping the "laser" (Score:3, Interesting)
MiniMac, like MiniMe, is immune to spyware for now. However, if you have ever used email on a mac, you will know that spam is not a "to windows only" phenomenon!
" people just have to have those silly apps that only work in windows, for them, the future is not so bright"
Ir maybe you really do think that "email" is a silly windows-only app?
Simple (Score:2, Informative)
Can you blame him? (Score:2, Informative)
The internet experience doesn't have to be this way, but when the powers that be (Microsoft, mostly) sit on their laurels and allow the situation to degenerate, what hope is there?
Firefox and Thunderbird. (Score:3, Insightful)
Buy a mac (Score:3, Insightful)
2. Use a browser with pop-up and ad blocking capablility.
3.
4. Profit from the wealth of information on the web.
What about the opposite? (Score:5, Informative)
A couple of months ago, I went into my dry cleaner and they said they couldn't take credit cards that day. The reason? Their credit card system (PCs on the Internet) wasn't working because of a virus. I thought about giving them a lecture on keeping credit transactions off the public Internet, but knew it wouldn't do any good so just paid cash and left.....
Re:What about the opposite? (Score:3, Interesting)
Alot of worms install keyboard loggers.
I would have politely lectured them and told them a worm/virus could cost them their business and lawsuits.
if they must go on the net use a different pc but keep the credit card machine secure and used only for transactions.
I use to work for Jason's Deli and while mapquest is used for the delivery drivers on the transaction POS so we knew where we were going, someone browsed an internet that installed a wor
Why in my day . . . (Score:2, Funny)
We didn't have any of this fancy spam or spyware of which you speak. If we wanted spam, we had to log off, go outside, and walk to the 7-11 in three feet of snow, uphill, both ways.
*grumbles*
I am getting tired.... (Score:2, Insightful)
Now this is a setup of a question. (Score:5, Insightful)
No, I won't add links to those. They're everywhere this week. And yes, I want one. Either one.
Re:Now this is a setup of a question. (Score:5, Insightful)
Have you installed Mandrake 10.1 lateley? I've been upgrading Linux in increments over the years and it wasn't till recently that I tried a full fresh install. Mandrake 10.1 did a wonderful job of installing everything needed for Internet access, printers, useable office software, multimedia, games, etc. during the installation process. Install recommended items, reboot, get online. Easy as pie. I was VERY IMPRESSED at the final result. So was my neighbor. After playing with a dual boot Mandrake 10.1 with XP for about a week, she's ready to pull the XP drive and give it to her husband for his PC. Mandrake gives her everything she needs to do for home and online. She even downloaded the latest Wine and started getting her Windows only software installed seamlessly.
Re:Now this is a setup of a question. (Score:3, Insightful)
The fact of
Re:Now this is a setup of a question. (Score:3, Insightful)
Related article on The Register (Score:2)
Clicky [theregister.co.uk]
El Reg mentions the LA Times article as a "must-read feature".
Like they said... (Score:2, Informative)
Personally, (Score:2)
Slashdotters? (Score:2)
What has me ready to give up on the internet is that you can't play a single fucking multiplayer game anywhere without being inundated by a bunch of hostile, barely-literate smacktards.
Advice For Users (Score:5, Insightful)
For the first time in ages, I can say this with a perfectly straight face and without reservation:
Get a Mac.
They're affordable, they're stable, they're powerful, they're easy-to-use, they're resilient against infection, they come with excellent software, there are some great games available, and yes, Virginia, they'll even work with your multi-button mouse.
For the basic user, what else is there?
Re:Advice For Users (Score:3, Informative)
1. Get a Gmail account and use that with Thunderbird for email.
2. Get Firefox,
3. If on broadband get a router/switch/firewall appliance and keep it updated.
Finaly Knoppix will let you surf the web without much worry about spyware and or virus attack. Might take a techie set it up the first time but after that.
And yes Linux is an option even for a non-techie. It might take a techie to set it up but once setup it can be very useful and easy to keep working.
Fedora with Yum setup with a cron job
Re:Advice For Users (Score:3, Informative)
It doesn't stop spam from coming in, but it does solve the problem for your average user.
That is why... (Score:5, Insightful)
No - they use Office at work. Admit it!!
That is why there is Office X for the Mac.
2. My parents get confused if I alter a toolbar on their home PC when I am working on it. They think it is broken if it does not look exectly like the one they use at work.
You give them too little credit. Perhaps they will like how the Mac works better overall?
3. They do not want to learn how to use a PC. They still can't program the video player, they have no DVD player, they think CDs are some sort of voodoo.
Then probably, they should have a Mac and not a PC.
How would
Pretty easy, really. How are they going to fare in the long term when Longhorn comes out if they don't even like changig a menu?
Break them of the habit now, a short-term pain will go a long way in the future.
byebye (Score:2, Funny)
Healthy e-life instructions (Score:5, Informative)
a) Download Firefox [getfirefox.com].
b) Download anti-spyware (ad-aware, Spybot)
c) Get off the internet.
d) Run the anti-spyware to make sure your machine is 100% virus and spyware free.
e) Activate your winxp firewall.
f) install Firefox.
Ta-da!
oh for god's sake (Score:5, Insightful)
1) don't use windows, for chrissakes. how many people out there in the world don't know that there are alternatives? is it really that many? is apple's media saturation here in the bay area completely nonexistent anywhere else?
2) the solution isn't legislation -- it's people making crappy products. if toyota made a car that constantly ran into trees, the solution wouldn't be banning trees, it would be making toyota make some good friggin' cars.
lord stuff like this makes me pissy.
Buy an Apple (Score:4, Interesting)
I use to fix friends/relatives PCs all the time with their problems.
Then spyware just went amuck.
I tell people now to just buy an apple. They most likely won't call me for help with PC issues.
I myself am sick of the spyware crap that's out there infecting PCs. I am on the road to going 100% mac.
I don't see Microsoft fixing these issues, so I just tell people buy an Apple.
Quick, someone install Linux for them! (Score:2)
-Jesse
Macintosh. (Score:2)
Don't use Dial-up (Score:3, Interesting)
If a user doesn't have the time and/or inclination to leave their browser of (informed) choice downloading critical updates to browser, OS, AV, anti-spyware and so on, then they're more likely to go "Ah, skip it - I can get them later, and anything dodgy will get cleared out then."
If you don't have the bandwidth to match your impatience, you're less likely to keep your critical software up-to-date. Simple psychology.
Apple finally answered my prayers (Score:5, Insightful)
I am so, so happy Apple has finally made a *really* affordable good Mac. (Where "affordable" means "less than $800" and "good" means "doesn't have a bloody great CRT built-in." Yes, the iBooks are fabulous, but the small screen and keyboard aren't so great for some folks. And $1000 is a lot more than $600 for a lot of people.) Thank you thank you thank you!
Re:Apple finally answered my prayers (Score:4, Informative)
Clearing up confusion about the Mac Mini [tuaw.com]
[quote]
While it is strongly recommended that you only have an Apple Authorized Service Provider crack it open and install RAM, hard drives, Airport and Bluetooth, it will NOT void your warranty if you do it yourself. As is standard operating procedure, however, anything you break while attempting anything on your own is not Apple's responsibility and will not be covered under warranty. I think that is pretty much common sense.
Among other things, the Mac mini boots headless too.
Dear the Internet, the Mac mini has no DIY parts. (Score:3, Informative)
Just in case you missed it from the Mac mini specs page:
This means that if you want to upgrade the RAM in a Mac mini and keep your warranty, you'll be paying someone. Same goes for AirPort, Bluetooth, hard disks, optical drives, and anything else you ma
Advice for non-experts? (Score:2)
o Stay alert like you're on the street in a big city. The net combines resources and dangers just like New York does.
o Consider having two machines, one permanently off the net for bookkeeping and other critical data, one connected but running something like Deep Freeze
o Use the Holy Trinity: antivirus, firewall, patches
o Stay informed. Follow some free security-for-real-people newsletter (mine is probably not the only one).
Re:Advice for non-experts? (Score:2)
Phishers (Score:3, Informative)
I'm sure this will be said a million times... (Score:2)
Like a red rag to a bull this story (Score:2, Insightful)
Before you do people, get this, people wo DON'T work in computers - they just don't care - did you know that? they don't care if it's linux, max, pc, or whatever, they just want to start using this new intahwebeh thing.
When they go to a shop to buy one what do they get? Windows, cos that's what 95% of other people do. Windows is big, it's always going to be big, deal with this fact.
Spyware worse than virii (Score:2, Insightful)
But alas! The soloution: Mozilla Firefox!
Advice (Score:2)
Register for a free email account at yahoo.com or hotmail, use this for when you must submit an email. This way this email address can get spammed till the cows come home, you simply dole out your real email to friends and family and tell them not to submit your email for giveaways and such.
STOP USING IE. Use Mozilla or Firefox to browse the web. I have used mozilla or firefox for the last few years and only resort to IE when absolutely necessary, and beca
with karma to burn, (Score:2)
it's as simple as you like and as powerful as you'll need.
yeah, i know it's not completely invulnerable forever, but using mail.app spam is swept away regardless of isp, and using safari.app spyware has yet to rear its ugly head while my colleagues run a daily or weekly spate of apps to keep ahead of the mess.
I gave up on e-mail (Score:2)
At least I have IM I can use to communicate, I know if the IM has got through, and I can choose to not accept IMs from people I don't have listed.
As for the internet, I use Firefox, and I'm not a complete retard. The people in that story either should (1) not let
Let Teens Have Their Own Computer (Score:2)
Whenever someone tells me they have a spyware problem I ask them if they have a separate comptuer for their teenager. On rare occasion they don't have a teenager but the vast majority of the time they do, and their teenager is using the system for things that result in all sorts of infections and infestations.
So the solution for about half of the people is let the kids have their own computer and don't bother fixing it for them.
Spambayes (Score:2)
Advice to Users: Quit (Score:2)
One solution (Score:2)
Installing firefox on their computers is one thing, but I have far younger half-brothers who literally will click 'yes' to everyt
Advice? (Score:2)
Easiest Solution (Score:2)
Don't give up! Try a Mac... (Score:3, Interesting)
Also, using my .mac account for my primary email, I get about five spams a day. And each and every one of them originate from the same company, that a 'friend' of mine signed me up so she could get some free movie tickets. (She is actually an ex-friend over this very issue... she went ballistic when I asked her not to give out my personal information or send me stupid forwarded joke emails. Her response back screamed I WILL NEVER SEND YOU ANOTHER EMAIL, EVER! and I said, "fine by me.") I could try to get rid of those five per day emails, but I'm afraid of increasing the amount by using their 'unsubscribe' link.
I fix home computers (Score:3, Interesting)
Did I mention they are free and I will make you the CD's for Fedora, Mandrake, Suse, or whatever other distro you want and you can just pay me to install them for you.
Alas, maybe they are afraid they will miss me.
Popups make user quit internet... (Score:5, Funny)
back in 86 (Score:5, Insightful)
The home computer has failed to become an appliance like a microwave, or a refrigerator. Is it really any easier than it was back in the Apple ][e, Commodre 64 days? Has WinXP or Suse 9.0 or OS X really made computing as transparent as heating a chicken? Has networking gotten much simpler?
For the average mom and pop at home who want to send some email, do some online banking, shopping, knowledge gathering and write a letter, maybe balance a checkbook really need dual G5s a P4 3.0?
The computer world looked ready to go back to main frame client/server models with things like Java et al. It should. Give mom and pop a 20+" monitor and keyboard and mouse and let them access everything though their browser. Here's you Word Processor, here's you email, here's your pr0n.
And for those of us bold enough to muck about in kernals, driver and whatnot well we still could. Andf we wouldn't have to do it everytime we visit our parents, neighbors, friend's office.
People are diving off the internet because configuring their computers is still hard. It's still "dangerous" and frankly all the pr0n in the world can't drive this "internet" thing much further. And to this point pr0n and games have driven the internet and home computing into the super computer realm to this point.
The users aren't the issue. The fact that some 40 years later not all that much has changed regarding setting up a network is an issue. The fact that there is a large corporation out there making consistently insecure software despite their responsibility as the market (well really as THE market) leader is an issue.
Remove Internet Explorer with LitePC (Score:3, Informative)
Of course, you install Firefox and Thunderbird.
LitePC is too flexible for the typical home user, though. It's used mostly for configuring business desktops and embedded systems. Basically, it lets you turn off, selectively, most of what's in XP but not XP Embedded. They really need a one-step CD product that cleans out adware, spyware, and viruses, removes Internet Explorer, and installs Firefox and Thunderbird.
There really aren't that many important web sites left that work only with IE. And you can usually find a competitor that sells the same thing. I haven't run IE in a year or so now.
Someone Give Them an E-Mail Station or Something (Score:3, Insightful)
Two words: limited accounts (Score:3, Insightful)
Create an easy way to overwrite critical Registry sections that are responsible for explorer tie ins. As a matter of fact, I think I'll write a tool like that.
Stop making people administrators by default, and the problem becomes localized and easily stopped.
No one remains an administrator or at least a defaultly configured Administrator after I see their PC.
Enjoy.
What's wrong with Linux? (Score:3, Insightful)
Before we all say Mac Mini is the answer (Score:3, Insightful)
This can be overcome by geeks like us who hold the hand of new Mac users who we convince to switch - my in-laws WILL be getting a Mac Mini for their next computer or I'll refuse to help them continue cleaning spyware off the system - but how many "normal" people want to learn a seperate OS from the one that they use at work - no matter how much better it may be?
Don't get me wrong - I am sold on the Mac OS X experience and have used a dual-G4/G5 alongside my Windows box for - wow! - five years now. However, I understand that Apple has a huge challenge in front of them. I'm just extremely glad that they've decided to release the Mac Mini so that they can see if the experiment is going to work.
This is such BS (Score:4, Interesting)
I have a friend who lives a few doors away. He's been having a lot of trouble with spyware. Porn ads popping up all day long. It was making his PC a pain to use even after a neighbor spent a few hours trying to clean it out. This same friend also likes to tell me about how much audio and video he's downloaded he's downloaded using the web and p2p.
It's pretty obvious what's going on. Your machine gets cluttered with spyware if you spend time on sketchy web sites downloading all and sundry and doesn't otherwise.
My solution is pretty simple - if I'm going to download porn off the web I use a Mac.
Advice for techies re: advice. (Score:5, Insightful)
*sigh* ok, let me clue you nerds in. I have to get this out because it's an endless debate between some of the most myopic people on the Internet claiming to be the most informed.
I know we're probably a good 300 posts into this thread already and this posting of mine will be lost, but I feel the need to intervene anyway;
Some thoughts, from what I see here:
1) Normal joe/jill average users don't want to, and shouldn't have to, make checking e-mail and surfing the web a second job. So keeping up with every latest turn in the spyware/adware/spam drama is not an option. Your "it's that simple" solution isn't that simple to people who aren't immersed in computer culture 24 hours a day. Drop the faux-Darwinism routine and join us in what I like to call "real life". We're over here, in the sun.
2) Normal joe/jill average users WILL NOT run more than one computer for seperate tasks. This is insanity to begin with. Don't take your desk as an example of a normal computer user. You may have a room dedicated to your four boxes with various chips and OSes, but no normal human wants to do that. They want A box, with A monitor, and A device to interact with that box. They want a TV with a keyboard, but one that won't force them to download porn or send and recieve spam. The solution isn't a NeXT box for checking e-mail and a Sparc for web surfing, with a Windows NT 4 box off network for accounting, or some other absurd scenario.
3) Normal joe/jill users will want to run some fairly mainstream programs. If you're running AutoCAD, or MSSQL, or Cybertrader, you're a professional so the rules above no longer apply. Normal joe/jill average users want e-mail, fun web pages, The Sims maybe, Quicken. They want to buy a CD or a book online maybe, if they're feeling fancy. No crazy NASA shit. Don't hold them to your twisted standards of what normal people do with computers.
Where am I going with this? The only logical recourse at the moment is to get an Apple Macintosh for these users who are not computer dependant or who are not computer experts.
I know you all hate to hear it (other than the Mac fanboys who love to hear it, but let's just tolerate them for a moment). It's the only mainstream path for people who are trying to make joe/jill average user's computer experience workable. I've done it. I've set people up on Apples. I don't get calls about computers! They talk to me about them, but only to say how much they want to hug the damn things.
Regarding the proposition of a Linux desktop for these people. If you want to inflict frustration or dependancy on the normal joe/jill average user you're trying to help, if controlling them through reliance on your godlike technical abilities is your bag, by all means set them up with a Linux desktop. You can claim to have grandma set up on linux, and all your friends will pat you on the back for being such a wise advocate. Your grandma will use her computer all of the one time she can remember he login and password. Then when her $2000 investment in technology is worthless to her, and she calls for help to get some sort of value out of it, you can sigh call her dumb under your breath for not knowing how to operate an expert level OS. Hope you feel big...
You people frustrate me beyond words sometimes.
Its probably been said before. (Mac Mini related) (Score:3, Insightful)
Linux is a great alternative but a lot of these people (the target audience for the Mac Mini) is just out of their league. Meantion sudo to them and they'll just stare at you blankly. A lot of people have PCs just to do the basic things, Windows does suffice some of the time. But usually there are too many problems. Most people just want to be able to chat, email, surf, print, write papers, organize photos, and so forth. Not all that easy on a Linux box, and more trouble than its worth for Windows.
Don't get me wrong I have a Linux box and a Windows box. I only use the Windows box for gaming, thats all that it really excels at. I use Linux for a lot of my programming, webserving, hosting, and other tech savy needs. My Mac I use for everything else. Its that everything else that Apple is banking on. They know that people just want to be able to do something easily, safely, and quickly.
quoting from article: (Score:4, Insightful)
No one immune?
Pardon me, but WRONG! I'm on a Mac. I am damn well immune, thank you. I have no problems on my Safari og Firefox or Camino. I AM immune from spyware and malware.
Re:Great. (Score:3, Interesting)
This is a bad thing?
I can feel the Internet's collective IQ rising...
I see your point in that, having first used the Internet/Usenet in 1990, I sometimes miss the level of discussion then. On the other hand, it *was* pretty narrow -- with just geeks and professors online, science, math, and science-fiction were the dominant subjects. I mean, did anyone use the Internet to talk about weird stuff like the influence of Mexican music on Yugoslavian culture [s5.net] back then?
Re:Great. (Score:2)
Re:Try this (Score:2)
Re:I have reduced the usage of sites that are... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I have reduced the usage of sites that are... (Score:3, Interesting)
The whole "turn a spankin' brand new PC" onto the Internet and it's infected with tons of crap in a few weeks/months IS a real industry problem. There was a great /. article on spyware yesterday [slashdot.org] - more pressure needs to be brought to bear to the people feeding this in
Re:Here's one (Score:3, Interesting)
Perhaps the best solution for those people who just don't (or can't) learn to protect themselves is to hand them Knoppix.
Pull the plug on the network while in Windows. If you want to surf then insert Knoppix, reboot, and plug the cable back in. Safe, secure browsing. And if you DO get compromised, security is one reboot away. This still does not stop Spam, though.
Don't drink and RTFA (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyways, Our AC friend typifies the sort of arrogant, antisocial IT people who are mocked on
I remember a skit on SNL that hit the nail on the head--it
Re:Survival of the Fittest (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:TROLL ALERT! TROLL ALERT! (Score:3, Insightful)
Now if this were "hey slashdot, I have spyware, how to you guys remove it? lol kthxbye!!!11!!" Then I would see your valid troll point. Otherwise, you just did not RTFA.