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Slashback: Australia, Nomenclature, Books 231

Slashback tonight brings a few updates on topics ranging from linux.conf.au and free books online to how you can help pay off Dan Peng's legal debt to the RIAA. Read on below for the details.
Since you can never hear enough about linux.conf.au Kimberly Shelt writes: "Actually I wrote a whole article about it this month. Complete with hype about Kfishes, miniconf etc :) It included the direct link to the current LCA2004 pages :) and a tiny pic of scrubby :) what more can you want :)"

Please, no more name changing. suqur writes "As a follow-up to many stories previously posted, News.com reports that the recently renamed Mozilla Firebird browser (previously known as Phoenix) has finally given up on its new name, and relinquished the name. The new names for the Mozilla Firebird and Mozilla Thunderbird will be Mozilla Browser and Mozilla Mail, respectively. Looks like they're right back where they started, eh?"

Whatever the name, Mozilla is still only almost perfect: GeekLife.com writes "An old Mozilla exploit continues to crash almost any version/flavor of Mozilla with just 5 lines of plain HTML code (no JavaScript, ActiveX, etc.). If you're very brave, you can test/crash your Mozilla by going here.

It's important to report fairly on issues like this, or people will come to think of the Open Source journals as biased, uninformative, irresponsible propaganda machines, which will greatly harm any legitimate cause that the OS folks are promoting."

Books to download, at varying prices. Scott Pendergrast writes "We're working here at Fictionwise to convince publishers to release Neal Stephenson's works as eBooks. Recently his Cryptonomicon work finally became available in Secure Microsoft and Palm Reader formats (yes, the irony of this title being sold in an encrypted format is not missed ;-)

To encourage sales of this title, which hopefully will result in more of his works becoming ebooks, we're offering a 50% micropay rebate on it (so we're actually losing a bit on each sale)."

If you like your books free and non-fiction, though, mindpixel writes "I am not lying. The National Academies Press which was created by the National Academies to publish the reports issued by the National Academy of Sciences, the National Academy of Engineering, the Institute of Medicine, and the National Research Council, all operating under a charter granted by the Congress of the United States, has more than 2,500 free, searchable, high quality books online. Some random examples:

This ought to be tax-deductable, too! ThreeToe writes "Recently the RIAA settled a lawsuit with four college students; one of them was Daniel Peng of Princeton University. Daniel is accepting donations to help pay his $15,000 settlement fee along with related legal fees. You can send money via paypal by clicking here. Remember that Daniel simply wrote an MP3 search engine; he didn't distribute MP3s himself. Those who share my belief that this lawsuit was wrong-headed should make a statement by assisting Daniel."

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Slashback: Australia, Nomenclature, Books

Comments Filter:
  • by goatasaur ( 604450 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @08:04PM (#5906530) Journal
    Coming soon: Netscape Gremlin
    • Bart Simpson: Otto! There's a gremlin on the side of the bus!
      Otto Mann: No problemo, Bartdude!
      [Otto runs small car off the road]
      Hans MolemanBart: I just made the final payment!
      (Or pretty close to that.)
  • the "four" lines (Score:5, Informative)

    by MiTEG ( 234467 ) * on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @08:04PM (#5906532) Homepage Journal
    <fieldset style="position:fixed;">
    <legend>Crash</legend&gt ;
    • by jeffphil ( 461483 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @09:23PM (#5906986)
      Maybe it was more than the "four" lines, and possibly the evil HTTP Header:

      # lynx -mime_header http://www.geeklife.com/files/crashMoz.html
      HTTP/1.1 200 OK
      Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0
      X-Powered-By: ASP.NET

      (Had to resort to lynx, because my mozilla crashed.)
    • This isn't even strictly an HTML exploit (as claimed in the summary): take out the CSS (style="position:fixed") and it loses its teeth. I know of at least one other related crasher (it's reported in bugzilla) involving certain objects and position:..., and this is probably related.
  • sorry (Score:5, Funny)

    by The Clockwork Troll ( 655321 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @08:07PM (#5906554) Journal
    I do not have any cash to give but I've got some bootleg Metallica CD's I could donate(I just need to make some copies).
    • No, We should pay them in CD Burners. What do they cost? $50 each?

      I have a 16X burner. That should be worth $800!

    • Re:sorry (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Metallica recently gave a free concert at a prison, after shooting a video there. They must realize that all of their fans are now in prison for illegal filesharing.
      And I thought Metallica would lead the way by giving away their music and making money off shows and merchandise.
      They put on a great show. (Used to at least.)
  • by faceword ( 635817 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @08:07PM (#5906558) Homepage
    Why would we donate money Daniel Peng? Yeah, he got screwed, but the fact is he settled rather than fight. I'd be willing to donate $ for his legal bills had he opted to fight the RIAA lawsuit -- but not now; why should we give him money to help pay the settlement, when it will go straight to the RIAA?
    • by hoggoth ( 414195 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @08:20PM (#5906638) Journal
      Because $17,000 is a rounding error to the RIAA, but it is a year's tuition to a college kid.
      And more importantly, the RIAA's goal is to intimidate everyone who can't afford a year long legal battle into staying away from MP3s, peer-to-peer, ripping, and anything like it. If Daniel Peng's life gets ruined (or sidetracked) by this the RIAA wins and everyone is scared. If the community helps Peng out of this unfair mess, the RIAA loses.
    • by bcrowell ( 177657 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @08:30PM (#5906689) Homepage
      If you really want to donate some money to help the free information movement:

      Better yet, create some free information yourself. Write free software. Write some documentation. Report bugs in free software, or submit patches, or report errors in the documentation. Write free books. Make some music and release it for free. (Or do any of the above, make the information free-as-in-speech, and find a way to profit from it.)

      I really couldn't care less about the fate of these students who got sued by the RIAA. All they're doing is perpetuating the public's misconception that free information is a form of parasitism, rather than a form of creativity.

    • by WankersRevenge ( 452399 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @08:31PM (#5906692)
      Think about it . . .he's in college. The RIAA offer ed him a 17,000$ settlement (another year of school tuition when you think about it) or how an unforetold amount of debt for the rest of his life on Earth. If you still think that choice is easy, now imagine a billion dollar monster breathing down your throat. Sure, Daneil's actions might not have been heroic in the "lone man versus the faceless corporation" Hollywood kind of way. It was human. And I can't fault him on that. And neither should you.
      • Nor will I reward him for it. And I shout boo at anyone who does. Let him file for bankruptcy if he must.
      • Wake up (Score:3, Informative)

        by HeghmoH ( 13204 )
        The grandparent is not criticizing Daniel's actions. He's simply saying, if Daniel had decided to fight, he would have helped out. He's not fighting, so he won't help with the settlement. It says nothing about disapproving of the settlement.
      • I can fault him for it, and I will. He's a pussy. A coward. Something that I see too much of these days. You can't expect to win anything if you aren't courageous and brave. You have to stand up for what you believe and be willing to fight for it despite consequences. If I were in his shoes I would have fought to the death, and I'm an even poorer college student.
    • by jmorris42 ( 1458 ) <jmorris@NOSPAM.beau.org> on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @08:55PM (#5906815)
      Amen to that. If we all pitch in and pay the fine it will only encourage them to repeat the trick. Sorry, but if you want help you had better be willing to do your part.

      As a more libertarian sort, I'm much more likely to contribute to mutual aid than to give outright charity. Helping somebody fight against injustice boils down to selfish self-defensein that it lowers the odds of it happening to me in turn. Helping somebody who wants to bend over and take it only raises the odds of getting screwed in return, and where is my motivation for that?

      Yes it sucks to be that one guy who gets picked as a test case, but Freedom isn't free any more than Free Software is free. And it isn't until the crap hits the fan that you are forced to look deep down into your self and decide whether to be a sheep or stand up and accept the responsibility to defend the Liberties you were supposedly endowed with. And should the day come that a hero fights a truly just cause alone, our experiment in self government is concluded.

      If this guy didn't know that being a mp3 trader (yes I know he claims the defense of only indexing files) in any way risked the wrath of the RIAA then the guy is an idiot. Idiots deserve no help from me. So lets assume he did know and was doing it as an act of civil disobedience. Then he is obligated to follow through and BE the test case. I'm sure that the authorities would have been more than happy to let Rosa Parks chicken out and settle for a small fine and stop the growing civil rights battle swirling around her case, but what sort of world would she have helped build?
      • You are being shortsighted.

        I, too, consider myself libertarian, and sent him $10.

        The monies collected by the RIAA in the settlement will not represent a great proportion of their revenue, nor will they make them a greater threat -- the purpose was to intimidate.

        Imagine, if you will if 10,000 people send him $10. Or 100,000. Or, dare we suggest, a mullion? Imagine that he receives significantly more money than it takes to settle. The honourable thing to do would be to realize (a) lots of people support

        • > Imagine that he receives significantly more money than it
          > takes to settle.

          Kinda risky strategy. Give the money to the EFF and you know exactly where it will go.

          And yes, I can imagine the RIAA launching moreof these attacks if they get their money from this one. Sure 15,000 isn't a whole lot to the MUSIC INDUSTRY, but it isn't peanuts to the RIAA. They are just an industry lobbying organization. They just might decide that if suing one worked a hundred would net them a serious chunk of cash.
      • As a more libertarian sort, I'm much more likely to contribute to mutual aid than to give outright charity

        So you are saying that Libertarians don't give unless they directly benefit from the giving? I'm honestly curious, because I've never heard anything remotely like this attached to Libertarianism. Seems more like Objectivism to me.

        As for motivation, I suppose one could be motivated to help a guy out when he's been screwed. If you were standing on a street corner and someone walked off the curb without

    • by Dominic_Mazzoni ( 125164 ) * on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @09:29PM (#5907026) Homepage
      Why would we donate money Daniel Peng? Yeah, he got screwed, but the fact is he settled rather than fight. I'd be willing to donate $ for his legal bills had he opted to fight the RIAA lawsuit -- but not now; why should we give him money to help pay the settlement, when it will go straight to the RIAA?

      I gave him a few bucks because that could have been me in his shoes. I've written lots of programs, and plenty of them could be used for illegal activities, and it's not that hard to imagine being sued in this day and age because somebody else did something illegal with software I wrote and distributed.

      It's easy for you to say that you would have fought it if it had been you, but how many of you would actually do so? What if that meant putting college on hold for a couple of years? Even if you could afford the legal defense, how would you keep yourself fed?

      What if you were one of the four targetted by the RIAA, and the RIAA refused to accept a settlement unless all four students settled, and what if the other three students wanted to settle? I'm just trying to point out that it's not fair to judge Daniel Peng for settling under these extreme circumstances, especially when we don't know all of the details.

      I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Nobody deserves to be in a situation like he was in just for writing some software that could be used for both legal and illegal activities.
    • by macrom ( 537566 ) <macrom75@hotmail.com> on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @11:35PM (#5907720) Homepage
      Actually, here's what you do :

      1) Write a check to Daniel Peng in the amount of $10-15.
      2) Photocopy the check a few times before sending it.
      3) Mail the check to Daniel. You're a good man/woman for helping out.
      4) Mail the check copies to the RIAA and the record labels that are publishing some CD. Pick one that you would normally buy, or pick one that's popular right now. With the check, include a letter that tells them that you vote with your dollars and your dollars don't go to a corporation that prefers to bully students into settling lawsuits. Tell them that the check represents 1 CD that they won't sell because of their tactics.
      5) ??? (wait, I suppose)
      6) RIAA doesn't profit!!!

      If enough people did that, I think it would get the attention of those who prefer to make their money though the U.S. legal system rather than the U.S. capitalist system. To get the fullest effect, send your letters and copied checks to more than just the RIAA -- send it to the artist's agent, the record companies, your neighbor, your local retailer and your former first grade teacher. Spread the word that we vote with money, and we don't like the shit the RIAA is pulling.
  • Brave? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by birdman666 ( 144812 ) <ericreid AT mac DOT com> on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @08:08PM (#5906567) Homepage
    I'm not sure you have to be brave to click the link that crashes your Mozilla. It's like not pressing the red button that says "Don't Press". I knew what it was going to do and I still clicked the link. Give stupid/curious people like me some credit too thanks.
    • Re:Brave? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by DeltaSigma ( 583342 )
      Yes, even if mozilla is as easy to crash as IE, we don't risk as much doing so since our browser isn't integrated into our operating system... ...so even if the exploit is exactly the same as IE's, we're still hurt less in the end.
  • Amusing (Score:4, Insightful)

    by The Bungi ( 221687 ) <thebungi@gmail.com> on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @08:09PM (#5906576) Homepage
    "An old Mozilla exploit continues to crash almost any version/flavor of Mozilla with just 5 lines of plain HTML code (no JavaScript, ActiveX, etc.). If you're very brave, you can test/crash your Mozilla by going here.

    Yet an equivalent bug (because they're bugs, not vulnerabilities) in IE makes the front page and generates hundreds of 'M$ is teh sux' posts.

    Ahhhh, but this is open source, so the bug must be 'less bad'.

    • And here's a link [slashdot.org], just to reinforce my 'troll' rating!
    • Re:Amusing (Score:2, Insightful)

      by snero3 ( 610114 )
      Hmm if you actually view the source of the page.....

      <fieldset style="position:fixed;">

      you will see that this looks like a planed thing used to testing certian functions, probably auto bug reporting when it crashes for real.

      Also have you ever considered why MS software makes the front page when another bug comes out and OSS doesn't?
      Maybe it is because we pay large sums of money for MS software and O
    • If "you can fix it yourself if you want" == "less bad" then I agree. Bugs in OSS are inherently less rant-against-able than in CSS because you have no one to blame for it not being fixed but yourself.
    • I remember a time when Mozilla got little mercy. Over the five long years of its development there have been thousands of posts talking about how much it sucks, how buggy, how slow, how bloated, how long it took. I remember the general attitude of comments in stories of the early Mozilla releases being very negative. Not very nice for an "open source" project. Do you remember jwz's resignation [jwz.org] and his disappointment with mozilla.org and the reaction that producted?
      "Slashdot" was brutal enough (and even
  • Hmm... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Bendy Chief ( 633679 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @08:11PM (#5906584) Homepage Journal
    I was under the impression that "Thunderbird" and "Firebird" were always just transitory project codenames, much like Longhorn, etc.

    The Browser Formerly Known as Phoenix [mozilla.org] people seem to be asserting that.

    Perhaps it's just a glib reversal to save face?

    • Re:Hmm... (Score:3, Funny)

      by zakezuke ( 229119 )
      I was under the impression that "Thunderbird" and "Firebird" were always just transitory project

      I was under the impression that "Thunderbird" and "Firebird" were fortified wines and the prefered drink of transients which resembled the taste of zippo lighter fluid, but not approaching the quality of such fine beverages like Boones Strawberry Hill.

      • I was under the impression that "Thunderbird" and "Firebird" were fortified wines and the prefered drink of transients which resembled the taste of zippo lighter fluid, but not approaching the quality of such fine beverages like Boones Strawberry Hill.

        Funny, I was under the impression that "Thunderbird" and "Firebird" were muscle cars and the preferred car of many fast-car owners which resembled the feel of a real muscle car, but not quite approaching the quality of such fine cars like a Hemicuda.

  • And for the better, in addition to stepping on toes, those names were godawful, and brought to mind not only the cars themselves, but also the attendant mullets and hairbands. Great program otherwise.
  • Go Mozilla! (Score:5, Funny)

    by MrP- ( 45616 ) * <jessica AT supjessica DOT com> on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @08:12PM (#5906596)
    Glad to see Mozilla is competing with IE [slashdot.org] for features. :)

    And Mozilla does it better, I had some cool disk activity before it crashed, IE just crashes quietly. IE sucks!

    (This post brought to you by Opera [opera.com])
  • You sure about that? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by dougmc ( 70836 ) <dougmc+slashdot@frenzied.us> on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @08:13PM (#5906599) Homepage
    Remember that Daniel simply wrote an MP3 search engine; he didn't distribute MP3s himself.
    You sure about that?

    According to this [nj.com] --

    Peng's site, dubbed "wake," only appeared responsible for about 27,000 infringements by others, he said. But the Princeton sophomore also is accused of offering hundreds of MP3 song files for illegal downloading.
    Perhaps I'm not understanding correctly, but weren't there mp3s *on his box* available for downloading? Unless they were all ok for distribution (certainly possible, but unlikely) wouldn't this qualify as `distributing mp3s himself' ?
  • fieldset, legend tags are used to do it. Funny thing is I'd never heard of them in my life.
    Apparently they're used to do form meta-layout, as a hint to non graphical browsers, or a browser with a special form handler.

    Apparently they don't get played around with much, (d'Oh!)
  • by Anonymous Coward
    It's flexible
    It's lighweight
    It's Stable
    It's Got the support of Apple Computers Inc
    It's got decent fonts
    It also a universal fileviewer/manager
    You can even run a terminal emulator at the bottom of it.

    It's basically Internet Explorer for linux, but without the bugs and spyware!

    Konqueror, the cause of the Dinosaur's extinction
    And, it dosen't crash on the crash mozilla page either!

    Avalible in all good linux distros, MacOS X, *BSD and even experimentally on Windows!
    • It's basically Internet Explorer for linux
      Exactly.. it's the only web browser on my system that doesn't block pop ups. If it weren't for that, it would probably be my default browser.. until then, it's opera.
    • don't forget, Its HTML Rendering is much improved as of late.

      but, It still lacks all the cool plugins that Mozilla Browser (new name..:)) has.

      which is why I still put up with the fucking ugly fonts....any idea how to impove fonts on Linux....they fucking suck.
      • Konqueror is fully capable of loading Mozilla plugins. See the "Netscape Plugins" section in the Configure Konqueror dialog. Unfortunately due to some unknown mistake made when compiling my custom KDE build in Gentoo nspluginlauncher always crashes for me. Distros usually tend to get it right, though. In LindowsOS, for example, Flash 6 is rendered just fine in Konqueror using the Mozilla/Netscape plugin.

        Oh, BTW: fonts on Linux don't suck. That's a really old and obsolete argument. Just install those
  • by bobthemuse ( 574400 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @08:16PM (#5906614)
    Let's all send Daniel our used CDs, to be legally resold to fund his outrageous payment. Better yet, he can pay the RIAA in used CDs!

    I'll just head over to my burner first...
  • a legal battle. At least we'd know that there's a precedent set then, where the EFF could try to overturn such frivilous lawsuits. I'm really sad for these students, because they are innocent. The problem is our justice system. But if everybody simply caves to the RIAA, the RIAA gets $10-15k for each student and there's never a precedent set against them, and all we ever get is poorer quality music and poorer in the pocketbook trying to help out a bunch of unfortunate students.

    Fuck the RIAA, but fuck them with the law.

  • by bcrowell ( 177657 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @08:19PM (#5906633) Homepage
    The National Academies Press books are crippleware. You have to view the pages one at a time. Reading one of the books for free is totally impractical. It would be more practical to pull a book off the shelf at Barnes and Noble, sit in one of their nice armchairs, and read it from cover to cover. Also, note that you can't legally copy them -- every PDF page you download carries a copyright notice.
    • by Anonymous Coward
      Sorry for posting as AC, too lazy to register. I also prefer fixed font and do not understand why this is not the default.

      One could just wget all of the single pages:

      for ((a = 1; a < 17; a++)); do wget -b http://print.nap.edu/pdf/0309038901/pdf_image/R$a . pdf; done

      or equivalent, then convert to postscript file:

      for ((a = 1; a < 123; a++)); do pdftops $a.pdf $(($a + 1000)).ps; done

      or equivalent, then merge to a single postscript:

      ghostscript -dNOPAUSE -sDEVICE=pswrite -dBATCH -sOutputFile=all.ps 1
    • Easy program from any *nix system to get all pages, just find the number of the last page first. I won't write it for you, choose your own languages, or shell script it :P

      Basically, for x=0, x less than [last page number], x++

      Get URL blah.blah.blah/blah/blah/pageX.pdf (The URLs are consistent)

      Merge/Process/Print pages, Crippleware no more!

  • (yes, the irony of this title being sold in an encrypted format is not missed ;-)

    On the contrary, I find it quite apt.

  • Old News (Score:5, Informative)

    by geeber ( 520231 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @08:21PM (#5906645)
    From the article:

    "Use the names 'Mozilla Browser' and 'Mozilla Mail' to describe the Firebird and Thunderbird projects after the 1.4 release," reads a Mozilla branding policy published April 25, referring to the release slated for May 14.

    Published April 25? Good thing Slashdot is on top of things.
  • Were discussed in this slashdot story [slashdot.org] not long ago.

    To Quote:"The Mozilla Firebird and Mozilla Thunderbird names are simply codenames, and the resulting products will be referred to as 'Mozilla Browser' and 'Mozilla Mail'."
  • by cant_get_a_good_nick ( 172131 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @08:25PM (#5906666)
    Yeah, it crashed mozilla. To be honest, the thing that hit me was "whoa, how long has it been since I've seen a Talkback window". As a daily user of Mozilla since M16, it's pretty stable for me now, more stable than IE (which took a dump on me twice this week).
    • I don't know, I've had Moz crash fairly frequently at Wired. Haven't figured out the cause yet.

      XSLT that generates document.write in file scope also chokes Moz.
    • I've been running 1.3 for a while now, but it rarely stays up for as long as a week. The most common crashes are when I try to access a newsgroup at news.mozilla.org, believe it or not. It can't handle any of them. It has also died while editing the bookmarks and while reloading a page that hasn't changed.

      But it's a lot better than IE on my Windows test machine. I have to reboot that thing 2 or 3 times a day, mostly when I'm using IE and it freezes. Then the damned startup code chides me for not shutt
  • by zipwow ( 1695 ) <zipwow.gmail@com> on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @08:25PM (#5906667) Homepage Journal
    I had a friend of mine who was convinced that the feedback agent kept crashing Mozilla. I discovered this one day when he said offhandedly, "Darn that feedback agent! Every time it comes up, Mozilla crashes..."

    Its not often I get to mock an otherwise smart guy like this. Matt, this one's for you:

    Ha ha!
  • Ah HA! (Score:3, Informative)

    by Tsuzuki ( 442471 ) <komala@@@mac...com> on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @08:31PM (#5906693) Homepage
    I was brave, and went to the Mozilla-crashy-site... it doesn't actually crash Moz 1.2.1 under MacOS9.

    What I have found, though, is that http://www.noise.net.au/ does something evil to my IE preferences that makes it completely die on exit (including subsequent exits, even if I don't go back there). Force quitting just stops it from madly reading the drive, and from there you can only restart. I don't get this problem on OSX at all, and the only way to fix it is to completely delete the Explorer prefs.
  • by enkidu ( 13673 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @08:40PM (#5906734) Homepage Journal
    I think just paying in pennies should be fine. Loose pennies of course. Should come to around 4 tons of pennies.
  • by seefried ( 211451 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @08:43PM (#5906746)
    If this doesn't get modded up or gets labelled as Flamebait or troll I'll have lost all hope for Slashdot.

    You may notice that one of the numerous links in this Slashback is to a page that crashes Mozilla.

    cant_get_a_good_nick replies to the following (written by cscx):

    "So how come this "exploit" wasn't deserving of its own front page story like the IE one was?"


    "Umm, cause it wasn't an exploit.
    IE exploits gives bad people access to your machines. This just crashes your browser. Does a crash in code that is so obscure that nobody ever triggered it using tags that I've personally never heard of (I'm no HTML expert but I have been a professional webmaster on and off for 10 years) warrant a font page story? My vote is no."

    And yes, he is right! But what he fails to remember is that just a few days ago the same sort of crash was labelled as an "exploit" by slashdot.

    here [slashdot.org]

    He also makes reference to the fact that this is really uncommon html code. i.e. we should go easy on Mozilla for this. But IE received no such grace from slashdot readers. Go on, click on the link. Read through the comments.

    We all know we're biased in some sense to Linux. But does it have to be so god damn obvious? We're geeks. We're supposed to be smarter than average. We should be better than this.

    What really gets me though is that cscx was modded as a troll for his statement. Bias doesn't get anymore blatant than that.

    • Anyone have a referance where Slashdot claimed to be fair, balenced and unbiased?

      Most nerds I know don't like microsoft. Many of them hate, hate, hate them. Lots of nerds love to flame the hell out of microsoft. Many nerds enjoy this flaming. Its like a social weenie roast. Since slashdot is dominated by nerds I wouldn't be surprised if slashdot is biased towards flaming microsoft.

      I personally don't mind. I don't think I would hang out at slashdot as often if there was some artificial toning down of micro
    • He also makes reference to the fact that this is really uncommon html code. i.e. we should go easy on Mozilla for this. But IE received no such grace from slashdot readers.

      These bugs are not of equivalent "obviousness" despite the similar lengths of the code that triggers them. The IE bug is in a tag that is among the most commonly used, and can be triggered with a simple typo in the input type designation (leaving out the '='). The Mozilla bug, OTOH, requires the use of a particular style element (posi

    • by _Sprocket_ ( 42527 ) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @12:57AM (#5908078)

      If this doesn't get modded up or gets labelled as Flamebait or troll I'll have lost all hope for Slashdot.

      I would have been tempted to mod you down because:

      1) You begin your post with the typical martyr complex demands for mod / karma.

      2) Your post's content is all references to other threads in this very same discussion, yet you create a seperate post instead of replying to the actual threads.

      This isn't about the issue at hand. Its about grand-standing.
  • by int2str ( 619733 ) * on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @08:50PM (#5906781)
    Here's how you can crash IE *and* Mozilla in one file ;) :

    <input type crash>
    <fieldset style="position:fixed;">
  • by kbielefe ( 606566 ) <karl...bielefeldt+slashdot@@@gmail...com> on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @08:50PM (#5906785)
    submit a patch. Seriously, with all the talented slashdotters out there I'm surprised the Mozilla bug wasn't fixed before the story even posted for non-subscribers.
  • at twice the price if Neal would only release Quicksilver in any format.
  • by quantaman ( 517394 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @09:50PM (#5907143)
    Geek: wow, aren't you timothy? you stopped the Mozilla crashing page, right? how did you do it?

    timothy: it was simple really. Web pages have a preset "bandwidth limit", once they reach this limit, they shut down. knowing their weakness, i just sent wave after wave of our own browsers into view them, once they crashed them all, they were effectively shut down.
  • by Phantasmo ( 586700 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @10:14PM (#5907266)
    Please, everyone keep in mind that the naming situation wouldn't have been nearly as bad if Phoenix hadn't made such a big deal in the first place.

    The big, bloated, everything-including-the-kitchen-sink Mozilla that you download from mozilla.org [mozilla.org] is called Seamonkey [mozilla.org].
    However, nobody ever refers to it as Seamonkey - it's just Mozilla. Phoenix/Firebird was just being referred to directly as Phoenix/Firebird until Seamonkey could be retired and the rest of the developers could move over to the new codebase. At that point it would've been "Mozilla Browser" and "Mozilla Mail & News" again (as far as we end-users are concerned).

    If Phoenix hadn't flipped out and had just waited a few months the "Phoenix Browser" would probably have been forgotten.

    It's not like Mozilla ever got sued by Exploratoy [sea-monkeys.com].
  • by pryan ( 169593 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @10:44PM (#5907411) Homepage
    It has always been an internal codename with the intention of publicly calling the browser component "Mozilla Browser" after 1.4 is released. This is not a retraction of "Mozilla Firebird."

    Please see this MozillaNews article [mozillanews.org] for reference to the real story.
  • Free books (Score:3, Informative)

    by Cipster ( 623378 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @11:50PM (#5907803)
    The books linked there are serious crippleware. Very hard to browse and read. If you have specific questions in Biology you can search some quality books here: PubMedBooks [nih.gov]
  • by Gerv ( 15179 ) <gerv@@@gerv...net> on Thursday May 08, 2003 @03:47AM (#5908553) Homepage
    The move to "Mozilla Browser" and "Mozilla Mail" was always in the plan, and was in the branding document published last month [mozilla.org]. This change is scheduled to happen at some point after we release the currently-in-development 1.4 application suite.

    But, before the change happens, there are likely to be one or more releases of the Mozilla Firebird Browser as a standalone application. That was also always in the plan.

    Move along, no change, nothing to see here.

    (gerv at mozilla.org)

Evolution is a million line computer program falling into place by accident.