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Businesses China

TSMC Overtakes Tencent To Become Asia's Most Valuable Company (cnbc.com) 57

Posted by BeauHD from the rise-and-fall dept.
The world's largest chipmaker Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC) has overtaken Chinese tech behemoth Tencent to become Asia's most valuable firm. CNBC reports: It comes as Beijing's regulatory crackdown on the country's tech sector in the past few months has slammed the valuations of Chinese tech giants Tencent and Alibaba. TSMC, a major supplier to Apple, overtook Tencent earlier in August. The Taiwanese chipmaker is now sitting at the top spot by market capitalization -- among Asia firms -- at more than $538 billion, according to data from Refinitiv Eikon as of Wednesday morning during Asia hours.

Tencent sat in second place, with a market capitalization of more than $536 billion while Alibaba was a distant third at about $472 billion. The market capitalizations of both Tencent and Alibaba were hit again on Tuesday -- losing more than $20 billion each -- after China's market regulator issued draft rules aimed at stopping unfair competition on the internet. [...] Chipmaker TSMC, on the other hand, has gotten a boost as the world faces a global semiconductor shortage driven by supply chain disruptions due to the pandemic, along with a surge in demand from industries such as automobiles and data centers. Responding to the shortage, TSMC said earlier this year it plans to invest $100 billion over the next three years to increase capacity.
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TSMC Overtakes Tencent To Become Asia's Most Valuable Company More

TSMC Overtakes Tencent To Become Asia's Most Valuable Company

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  • Dependency graph. (Score:4)

    by Ostracus ( 1354233 ) on Wednesday August 18, 2021 @07:59PM (#61706389) Journal

    Well yeah. How much of Tencent's business wouldn't exist without TSMC chips?

    • Re: (Score:1, Flamebait)

      by Ungrounded Lightning ( 62228 )

      How much of Tencent's business wouldn't exist without TSMC chips?

      How much of TSMC's business will exist once China invades Taiwan?

      • Have to go through Japan [youtu.be] first.

        Great Britain [youtu.be] second.

        • World war 3 here we come. Eventually we're going to have to fight the water wars because we're sure as hell not going to do something as silly as solving climate change or our water crisis. That would require Jeff bezos giving up the mega yacht he built because his super yacht was too heavy to land a helicopter on.

          And no I'm not joking about that, go look up YouTube video from Some More News. We're running out of water so that Jeff bezos can't afford a second yacht to land a helicopter on. But never tal

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by jonadab ( 583620 )
            Fighting wars over water would be quite odd, considering that the areas with an excess of it, tend to be in the same countries as the areas that don't have enough. In North America, the line runs north-to-south: the West doesn't have enough water, but everything east of the Mississippi is practically drowning. In China, the line runs east-to-west: the north is dry, and the south is wet. There are of course entire countries that fall one one side of the wet/dry line or the other, but for the most part the

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by pjt33 ( 739471 )

              It has happened in the past [wikipedia.org]:

              Control of water resources and Israeli military attacks against the diversion effort are considered among the factors which led to the Six-Day War in June 1967.

      • How much of TSMC's business will exist once China invades Taiwan?

        There are certain stocks on the market that you should only invest in if you have access to information such as US military satellites. This one is for Senators and Presidents only. Anyone else is going to have their investments trapped before they can pull out.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by gtall ( 79522 )

          Or if your husband is a U.S. Senator from Tennessee, then you can get the inside scoop on vaccine companies.

          • Wish I had mod points. So true. And the left is just as bad. Pelosi's hubby has done some deals that look suspect. Heck they all do. The "hill" is like one giant chocolate shop where the candy is free for the taking, and most do.

            • It's still not clear to me if it's illegal to do this. It ought to be illegal. And insider trading in the private sector is definitely illegal. But somehow if you're in public office you can pass information to your friends and family with no consequences.

              • Unfortunately, I believe it is not illegal for congress critters to inside trade. Just private sector. And even that is iffy depending on who you are. Musk got away with it whereas Martha did not.

  • CSMC (Score:5, Interesting)

    by backslashdot ( 95548 ) on Wednesday August 18, 2021 @08:38PM (#61706441)

    After we cut & ran from Afghanistan, China is looking at Taiwan and wondering what would be the ramifications of it just waltzing over and taking Taiwan (and TSMC with it)?

    References from a variety of sources:

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/18... [cnn.com]

    https://www.globaltimes.cn/pag... [globaltimes.cn]

    https://www.reuters.com/world/... [reuters.com]

    https://www.newsweek.com/china... [newsweek.com]

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by edis ( 266347 )

      China openly weighs-in stating Taiwan is China.

    • For quick clicks. Us exiting Afghanistan puts China in a weaker position vis-a-vis Taiwan because we're no longer tied up in Afghanistan and can devote our full attention to China. The entire point of us backing out of the Middle East is the focus on what are called near peers. In other words China and Russia. Terrorists were never a threat, if you do a little research or honestly just a little googling about why 911 happened you'll find our intelligence agencies let it happen because they were bumbling foo

      • Ok, so now that we left Afghanistan, if China invades Taiwan, what will we do? What can we do? The only thing we could do in that scenario is to send them a strongly worded letter, and maybe call Xi Jinping's grandma a fat cow. On second thought, even that might be a bad idea.

      • Us exiting Afghanistan puts China in a weaker position vis-a-vis Taiwan because we're no longer tied up in Afghanistan and can devote our full attention to China.

        I see this happening for a totally different reason: China now has a Taliban jihadist caliphate on its southern border. Having defeated the US, the Taliban might consider going on to link up with the Uyghurs a logical next step. Now China will be faced with having to pacify Afghanistan. Will it be more successful than the last three superpowers to be sunk there?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by gtall ( 79522 )

          I think the new Turban Leaders of Afghanistan likely will cause trouble for their neighbors. The intelligent people in Afghanistan are queuing up to leave the country and those gun toting thugs they used to win aren't going to know squat about running a power station, much less an economy.

          A bigger problem for the TLs of A is that the intertubes allow in information. The bane of any authoritarian regime is freely flowing information, they cannot control it or its effects. Bahrain experienced this awhile back

          • Within Afghanistan, I can see the same scenario unfolding as in Iran: its best people will end up in places like Beverly Hills, while their country goes down the crapper. Jack Dorsey may have welcomed the Taliban on Twitter to replace the Republicans he censored, but what happens when the Taliban stop using electricity?

        • to move into the power vacuum we left. Again, this take comes from Beau Of The Fifth Column from YouTube, but it's reasonable.

          As he puts it, letting Iran provide the token security force needed to stabilize Afghanistan would have brought Iran into the international community and legitimized them as a nation. It would have encouraged both countries to modernize. As it stands the Taliban are rural, religious fanatics. They're going to drag the country back 100 years or more.

          Of course this would have b

    • Re:CSMC (Score:5, Insightful)

      by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Wednesday August 18, 2021 @10:02PM (#61706559)

      Taiwan is nothing like Afghanistan. Afghanistan has nothing of value to the US. We invaded because of 9/11, but then couldn’t ever figure out what step 2 should be.

      It’s similar to the difference in the US’s response between the genocide which was happening in Yugoslavia versus Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait. We sat on our hands for years while Bosnian Muslims were being slaughtered because the country had nothing we cared about. But as soon as Iraq threatened our oil supply, we felt the need to respond in force to “help our friends”.

      I expect Taiwan is viewed as an important strategic asset in Washington DC.

      • You forgot the biggest difference, Taiwan has a stable government which the US would be seeking to return once an invading force was removed, they had no such luxury in Afghanistan so once they removed the power structures in place they had to try and build a new government from the ground up without popular support.

        • Good point. A stable government that has the people’s support.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

          The other thing is the CCP is trying to retake control of Chinese companies You saw what happened to Jack Ma and Alibaba, what happened to DiDi. That's enough to start spooking investors. And given the CCP wants to control big and poewrful companies by force, that's driving away money.

          Tencent is basically falling victim to that - outside investors are not going to risk their money when the government can simply take over the company and dump their investment into the toilet.

          Taiwan has a stable government an

      • I expect Taiwan is viewed as an important strategic asset in Washington DC.

        A sentiment that's not unique to the US. Globalization makes a nations problem everyone's problem. Like Covid-19.

      • Eh. Afghanistan has (apparently) enormous reserves of lithium. We'll see how long that stays relevant before the battery industry moves on to different materials.

        In terms of what Afghanistan can provide by way of its human capital . . . not all that much.

      • Maybe, maybe not. https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/18... [cnn.com] In the new green world, they could be the next Saudi Arabia. TW is going to be a mess. China is rapidly expanding its Navy and Air Force. They have the money and skill to do so. But they are not stupid and really do not want to start WWIII either. Would the US start WWIII over TW? Would China risk starting WWIII over TW? Impossible questions to answer.

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by hogleg ( 1147911 )
          Right now TSMC is very important to many American businesses. Apple is just one of them. Until TSMC can get their fabs up and running in Arizona, Japan(?), and Germany(I could be wrong) than Taiwan is extremely important to the US. China knows this. I would imagine there are back channel communications between China and the US. And the US is probably very clear about China leaving Taiwan alone. At least for now. I do see how a war can start over this but I don't think China is that stupid. I am an idiot, d
          • I think you are correct. I don't expect China to start WWIII over it. However, I also think in 20, 30 or 50 years, it will be back in China's hands. As I mentioned in another post, China takes the long view, the very long view. Their plans span decades, US plans for days/weeks/months. Basically on a 2 year cycle max in the US.

      • Doesn't Afghanistan have minerals/oil&gas/gemstones, etc worth trillions of dollars?
        https://www.reuters.com/world/... [reuters.com]

        Wonder who will try to get a bite at all those resources next.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by fazig ( 2909523 )
      After? The CCP's been doing that for a long time; probably even before the UK cut & ran from Hong Kong.

      It's been a long standing concern for many computer hardware enthusiasts, which has become stronger ever since the chip shortages in the recent couple of years. This showed the Western markets how dependent they are on Taiwan and South Korea. But so far, our (sensible) response to the situation has not been to send war ships, protecting Taiwan from China, but to get TSMC to plan to build fabrication
      • UK did not cut and run. I'm no fan of China with HK, but reality is that was a result of an ever changing treaty with the UK. Remember UK got HK because China lost to UK when UK insisted China be a opiate consumer in the 1800's. Whatever China does, expect it to take decades. Something the west does not know how to deal with in its this quarter's profit mentality. The retake of HK was probably planned shortly after WWII and will be fully completed in this decade.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      Unlike Afghanistan, Taiwan will fight back. The "secret" of Iraq's military failure against ISIS and Afghanistan's failure is that fundamentalist Islam is "pro guy". It's a license to make women into de-facto slaves. Soldiers, who are male, know this. Thus, "losing" is not really losing, in terms of standing and power in society.

      • A guerilla war is not a soldiers thing. Suppressing a guerilla war requires a Stasi-like government. That means it needs repressive intelligence and secret police agencies. That is how dictator regimes and the Taliban will stay in power. Basically, a reliance on spying and kidnappings. They find out anyone who might possibly be opposed or organizing against them and pro-actively disappear them. And they make no illusions about it. It functions as a strong deterrance, any person who displays any sort of aber

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by fazig ( 2909523 )
        Somewhere I've read that the US should have trained women to be soldiers.

        Yeah, yeah, Captain Hindsight.
        But that might be an interesting thought for the future when dealing with such situations. Arm and train those who stand to lose the most.
        I'm sure most Afghans would have hated women in the military, perhaps playing even more into the ranks of conservative groups like the Taliban, but I do suspect that female fighters might not have given up as quickly.
        • Interesting I was thinking the same. And I would have gone further. Like give women ALL the power. Essentially reverse the roles. Women get guns, all guns, all weapons, all government positions. If a women feels a man is even looking at her wrong, she has the right to do any of the following. Shoot and kill, shoot and maim, taser, cut off his balls, ... Basically anything she wants. Just like a man can do with a woman there now. I'd also add a man caught without a female escort is subject to immediate jail
    • Biden is a dopey and senile son of a bitch but not completely clueless. The whole point of cut and running from Afghanistan to to refocus the USA's entire military attention towards China and Taiwan, instead of scatching about in the desert with a bunch of filthy half-bred sand chads who get down on their knees open up their anal sphincters five times a day to an imaginary God. Nothing to be gained there.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gtall ( 79522 )

        I don't think Biden is senile, but he always was a putz when it comes to foreign relations. The idea that other nations might view his bugging out of Afghanistan differently than he envisioned seems beyond the mindset of he and Obama. The previous asshole was even worse, so Biden is at least a step up from he. At least Biden only managed to screwup Afghanistan, the previous asshole tried to screw up NATO figuring it was protection racket that he could squeeze for money and then announce he manged to get mon

        • Except trump signed the exit agreement. The only fly in the ointment to your theory. It was time to go. Past time. The mere fact of how quickly the taliban retook tells you everything. The entire country including the afghan military was waiting for us to go. You can only occupy a country for so long. And that is what we were doing. Maybe 5% wanted us there, maybe.

    • I understand Taiwan military has standing orders to destroy all of TSMC's fabs the moment any Chinese troops step foot on Taiwan.

      At least that's what I have read in some interviews and articles.

  • But TSMC acutally makes stuff? (Score:3)

    by aberglas ( 991072 ) on Wednesday August 18, 2021 @08:50PM (#61706451)

    They actually have substantial sales? They have lots of factories and people and intellectual property.

    How could such a company be worth much in the modern world?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by PPH ( 736903 )

      How could such a company be worth much in the modern world?

      I really don't see how without a cartoon mouse as a mascot.

  • The Country of Taiwan (Score:3)

    by Mean Variance ( 913229 ) <mean.variance@gmail.com> on Wednesday August 18, 2021 @09:45PM (#61706525)

    ... that is all!

  • Guess they forgot about that one.

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