School Bans 'Tag' 1000
GillBates0 writes "CNN is carrying a story about a school in Boston which has have banned kids from playing tag, touch football and any other unsupervised chase game during recess for fear they'll get hurt and hold the school liable. According to the article, some elementary schools in other states have similarly banned "unsupervised contact sports". A parent was quoted as saying that her son feels safer now and that she'd witnessed enough 'near collisions.'" See, it's not just dangerous virtual games that are harmful to children!
WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)
Kids are very simple life forms, they don't have a firm grasp of logic and hence do stupid things which get them hurt. This is a basic fact of life and if you repress it you make adults who do the same because they never learnt any better.
How the hell can any school know so little about children but have them for so long..
The never ending march ... (Score:3, Insightful)
Hmm. (Score:5, Insightful)
This is just taking things too far (Score:2, Insightful)
Yes some children are going to play games and get injured, but this is insane.
I chipped two of my front teeth when I fell over in school aged 11, but my parents would have been laughed at had they decided to sue the school.
I'm sure there are probably (too many) rules about schools nowadays relating to who is in charge, or responsible for the pupils, etc. But at the end of the day accidents happen when you're a child.
Its about time people stopped talking to lawyers at the drop of a hat. Sadly it seems that even the UK is going in that direction.
Free country, my ass! (Score:5, Insightful)
Why (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh gods.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:WTF? (Score:3, Insightful)
Do they still get transported to school in motor vehicles?
Kids are very simple life forms, they don't have a firm grasp of logic and hence do stupid things which get them hurt.
In other words, they take after their parents.
School's and liability (Score:1, Insightful)
Instead they're spending their time worrying about tag, metal jungle gyms, or any perceived threats or sexual harassment between students.
Jesus Allah and Muhammed (Score:2, Insightful)
Fat Kids & ADD (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously I think my head is going to explode
Re:WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)
If a child goes through life placidly believing what their parents tell them, as good as the advice may be, that child is going to grow up to be a worker bee, not challenging authority, just following orders. Kids need to learn to push boundaries, that is the only way they are going to get ahead.
Elem. students should ALWAYS be supervised (Score:3, Insightful)
Now, if they are banning kid-organized tag games, that's just plain silly and harmful to their mental, emotional, physical, and social development.
hello overreaction (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm talking about the millions of people who will view the acts of a few schools around the country as the downfall of American society.
The problem these schools are seeking to resolve is this: They have all the responsibility for what happens to your little angel/monster but none of the parental immunity that comes with it.
Little Susie gets hurt playing a neighborhood game of tag. Nobody sues her parents. If little Susie gets hurt playing a school yard game of tag. The parents can sue the school.
The parents might not win, but who wants to be sued for something that can be avoided?
P.S. The difference between PE & recess is that you usually have to sign a waiver f liability for athletics.
Can't normal people get on with their lives? (Score:5, Insightful)
As is often the case, the majority of average, decent, middle of the road parents/children are dealing with the consequences of vocal extremes. On one hand, we have unsupervised kids causing all sorts of problems, and resulting zero-tolerence policies in schools where even a minor, accidental infraction can cause a serious interruption in the education even of a model student. On the other hand, we have over-supervised kids whos parents live in so much fear for their child that neither that kid nor their classmates can act like children are supposed to act.
A normal child with decent parents will take some bumps and bruises as he/she grows up, and will end up stronger for it. While getting hurt is not pleasant, it's often an excellent learning experience. You learn that not only will certain things result in pain, but also that bad things are going to happen in your life, and you need to learn to cope with it. Denying a child the chance to learn such things is not good parenting.
Re:WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)
Homeschool ..... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Simple Child Care (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm a parent, and my son has bruises. (Score:4, Insightful)
In the last week my son has earned him self probably 5 new bruises, a stubbed toe, a face plant on the coffee table, and too many trips, flops, crashes, bangs, ouchies, and other bumps to mention. Mom and Dad are right there, we intervien if he gets into a dangerous situation (ie: playing in the kitchen when we're cooking, climbing the back of the couch/chairs, playing with other heavy/electrified/hot objects, etc...) but for the most part, we let him develop his strengths and learn and challange his limitations.
It's not much unlike my own childhood. In fact, I would challange any one of those board members to imagine their own childhood with out such games. I would also challange them to present any statistically meaningful data that would indicate a link between tag and childhood death or long term disability.
-Rick
Re:This is just taking things too far (Score:3, Insightful)
So.. standing there, crying, blood spurting out of my head... and only like a month before the school had enforced a policy that none of the teachers could apply bandages or provide medical aid unless they'd gone through the right training course (which only one or two had done) and can't phone an ambulance without the parents permission.
At the time all the parents thought it was absolutely stupid.. sure kids get hurt, scape knees, fall over & bash teeth... but the people who are _legally_ supposed to be supervising us weren't allowed to do anything.
In the end I had to go and sit down in the staff room with a towel wrapped around my head so I didn't drip everwhere until my dad could get away from work, it took about 30 minutes... then another 30 minutes waiting in triage to be seen.
It's bullshit, and it's only getting worse... I fear within 5 years the UK will have schools doing similar things, which is just degredating society.
Had it been more serious I could've ended up with brain damage because of these stupid policies.
My two cents...
Re:WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:WTF? (Score:2, Insightful)
This is just scary (Score:3, Insightful)
Erm... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:WTF? (Score:3, Insightful)
Naw, naw, democracy is where you let politicians pandering for votes in the run up to an election dictate the rules of acceptable behavior.
Capitalism is where insurance companies get to dictate what you do. I know that capitalistic and democratic ideas are strongly tied together in the West, but anyone who follows capitalism and allows insurance companies to dictate terms will experience the same thing even if they aren't a democracy.
Of course, being both a democracy and capitalist economy, we get the joy of having both pandering politicians and insurance companies telling us what to do. Though I'll admit that at least the politicians have some connection to the desires of the electorate, no matter how skewed.
Re:The never ending march ... (Score:2, Insightful)
A couple points here: First, I am so tired of hearing parents saying what their children feel. Does her son really feel safer, or does he just say he does because it makes mom happy?
Also, note that the concern comes from the mother. Now I will probably be labelled sexist here, but this just brings up the differences between the sexes (yes, to all of you college professors and students lost in the realm of theory and academia, there is a difference between men and women). Women are inherently protective because security is very important to them. It is called nuturing. It gives them the incredible gift of motherhood which helps children feel safe and protected. Men, on the other hand, tend to be harder and push their children. They are the ones who encourage their sons to make a solid tackle next time instead of just a glancing blow. They are also the ones that encourage their children to take chances. For men, it is all about status and fulfillment. The fact is that both the mother and father are necessary to the proper upbringing of children. All children need to feel safe, but they also need to learn that taking risks is okay. They need both in order to grow up to be well-adjusted adults.
Unfortunately, over the past thirty or forty years, our society has demeaned fathers and promoted mothers. Fathers are portrayed in the media as stupid, aloof, or cruel. Men are looked down upon for being who they are as our whole society loses the ability to take chances. Women, in trying to make men into images of themselves, are now finding that they can no longer find "real men". I wonder why. This instance is a case in point. Notice that it is the mother who is concerned about the issue. It is the mother who has pushed this agenda until the school backed down. The father has been rendered powerless -- or has allowed himself to become powerless.
Two things need to happen here if things are to turn around. First, men need to involve themselves in their children's lives. Their role is just as important as the mother's in raising children. Teach your sons to be men, and teach your daughters what kind of men that she be attracted to. Second, women need to allow men to take the role they were meant to play as a true partner in the relationship. No more cheap potshots at men, and no demeaning them infront of their children. Couples need to come together and support each other, and we as a society need to recognize the differences and strengths of both mothers and fathers and support them.
Re:WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)
I have a hypothesis that much of the adrenialine-junkie, self destrcutive behaviour that has become a staple of American life is due in large part to overprotection of our children.
Re:WTF? (Score:4, Insightful)
Tiny lessons like this throughout childhood is what makes for responsible adults with common sense. Good to see that the schools have officially stated that they have no plans to teach responsibility, common sense, social skills or empathy, all lessions learned on the playground.
--
Evan
Why home schooling is booming (Score:5, Insightful)
With absurdities like this, is it any wonder why?
Take a look at the new Los Angeles Unified Director - he wants to "crack down" on children, make them all wear "regulation uniforms", adopt a "zero tolerance" set of rules, etc. None of which encourage anything like creativity, individuality, or happiness. And so the march of students into alternative programs grows ever stronger every year.
In my own home town of Chico, CA, there's a newspaper piece a few times per year, something like "Where are all the kids?". The census demographics indicate that Chico has a young population, inclined to produce lots of children. So for years, they've braced for this tidal wave of kids, that never came. Enrollments are lower than ever, and they're dealing with some fairly serious budget shortfalls.
So, they closed down the most remote school - a small school with like 50-60 kids - with the idea of bussing the children to a larger school closer in to save operating costs. Guess what happened? The parents of the school that closed down got a charter and opened up their own alternative education program in the same building as the old school. And *that* school now has almost 100 students! Closing the school actually *cost* the district money since now they no longer get the funding from either the kids they already had, nor the additional kids now enrolled in the new educational program!
It's choice in action - I wonder how long it will be until they get a clue and start competing?
Re:WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)
Near as I can tell, this is a design goal of the current school system. See: Dickens.
Re:WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)
A large portion of the physically fit people I know are physically fit because we like playing/competing in sports. I wonder how many of these kids who might otherwise get interested in a physical activity will shy away from them because their school tells them they are too dangerous? I wonder how many of these kids "saved from the dangers of physical activity" will end up dying from a heart attack? If there can be lawsuits against McDonalds for making kids fat, I think there can be lawsuits against a school for making kids fat. Maybe if there are enough of these lawsuits then kids will be able to have fun again.
Re:WTF? (Score:2, Insightful)
Given the choice between (1) individuals solving problems on their own, bypassing the enormous, costly apparatus of the state, and (2) individuals running to government at the first hint of a problem -- which benefits the power elite more? (As if that question needs to be asked!) The truth is that personal responsibility and power don't mix. Imagine if everyone lived by the principle of personal responsibility, asking nothing of government except to simply enforce the principle of voluntary association -- what's in that for government?
There's a reason why every year there are thousands more laws on the books than the year before. There's a reson why the US government of today dwarfs the US government of only 50, let alone 100 years ago, both in revenue and power over the people. If the objective wasn't to make fragile, tattle-tale zombies out of unique, thinking individuals, then they sure had me fooled.
I'll Tell You What's Harmful To Children... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yet here we are, the intelligentsia of the present, blaming the school for something it shouldn't have to worry about in the first place.
The best solution I can imagine would be a "loser pays" system, whether only those truly liable would be punished through the legal process. At present, both sides are financially penalized, and a wealthy litigant (or one with political support) can run a public school into the ground. In these circumstances, the school is perfectly understandable in it's efforts to prevent behavior that creates complaints and lawsuits.
Tale of two pairs of boots (Score:2, Insightful)
I bought some American snowboard boots last year. The label told me the same as above. It also told me that, if fitted with an avalnche transponder the product will not actually stop an avalanche.
One is patronising. The other is just plain stupid.
Re:Simple Child Care (Score:5, Insightful)
Sweet freedom! And that's just the people who haven't done everything. Get convicted of something and you are a prisoner for the rest of your life, if not in bricks then in opportunities.
And WHAT ARE THE ODDS of a terrorist attack hitting anyone? What are the odds of being killed by your car? Why aren't cars illegal, then? Why aren't there driver terror lists? Alchohol watch lists? Oh, why go on.
We've given up what it means to be free because we're terrorized cowards incapable of rational risk analysis. No sense of human rights, no idea of history not promulated by Fox News or equivalent.
So, what's a kid gonna look forward to after they release him from the school prison but the bigger prison that we all are sharing (unless we're rich -- whole different world for them, always).
Re:Simple Child Care (Score:2, Insightful)
These parents would be totally horrified to know I even played contact ice hockey!! Oh the horror!!
Re:Why home schooling is booming (Score:1, Insightful)
The only problem with both home schooling and charter schools is that parents, like everybody else, has their biases and they pass them on to their kids. We got away from home schooling years ago because it was better to teach if you knew what you were teaching. Not all parents really know their material, nor do all parents teach things that are.. questionable. Such as the age of the universe, the bible is literal truth and intelligent design, blacks are a lesser race or any of hundreds of other biases.
I'm not for public education quitting. I'm for parents actually involving themselves in school districts directly and the school districts paying attention.
Sheep, Wolves, Sheepdogs (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll paraphrase:
Most people are Sheep - not in the pejurative sense, but rather in the sense that they are utterly incapable of doing violence to another human being. Most people will go through their entire adult lives without ever comitting - or even witnessing - an act of violence (not counting TV etc, which isn't "real" violence)
Sadly, there are Wolves, who prey on Sheep. Wolves seek out sheep to fuck them up, because they know that sheep cannot protect themselves.
Happily, there are also Sheepdogs; those who place themselves between the Sheep and the Wolves.
But to a Sheep, a Sheepdog looks a lot like a Wolf - same shape, same teeth, same snarl. So sheep are very uncomfortable around sheepdogs, because sheepdogs trade in violence, and it is violence (not intent) that most upsets sheep.
Sheep are always trying to make sheepdogs more like sheep, even when that is counter to their own long-term interests, because the ideal SheepWorld is a nice, safe, non-violent bubble where nothing bad ever happens to anybody.
So Sheepdogs must remain vigilant and active - not only counter the Wolves, but also counter the Sheep. It falls to the Sheepdogs of the world to prevent the sheep from defanging their own protectors.
As an aside, there's a local radio commercial here that just drives me absolutely insane - it's an ad for a jewelry chain, in which a soccer mom (with the most teeth-gratingly patronizing voice ever) congradulates her husband on his "evolution" - he packs lunches, he makes playdates, he cleans the house - but when it comes to buying gifts, he still sucks. So go to Jeweler X and don't screw it up this time. Oh, and don't forget to pick up the daughter and get her (irony alert!) to Tae Kwon Do by 5:00....
This is a PRIME example of the sheep trying to sheep-ify the sheepdogs.
But here's the real question: if you are a Sheepdog, what are YOU going to do about it?
DG
Re:WTF? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Simple Child Care (Score:5, Insightful)
It's a liability issue, people (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Sheep, Wolves, Sheepdogs (Score:3, Insightful)
I think the fucking & assholes analogy from Team America: World Police is a more legitimate world view IMHO.
For those of you who think sheepdogs are important, I ask you the following -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes.
Re:Sheep, Wolves, Sheepdogs (Score:3, Insightful)
People who protect the sheep arn't sheepdogs, they're just sheep willing to bite.
Wolves are.. well wolves. Theres always assholes but they can be assholes for multipule reasons..
Re:The never ending march ... (Score:2, Insightful)
You must've been watching Fox's Sunday night line-up again.
Funny? Oh definitely, but did you ever stop to think about what message these programs send about fathers in general? It practically goes without notice in our culture that mothers are are portrayed as the only legitimate stabilizing force while fathers and their "caveman impulses" are to be ridiculed. Think about that next time you watch the "Four fathers of comedy" or whatever they call it.
Re:Homeschool ..... (Score:3, Insightful)
Too many parents use homeschool as a means to get their kids away from the "godless liberals and queers" in public school and teach them that Adam and Eve rode dinosaurs to church and little else outside of religious dogma.
Re:Simple Child Care (Score:5, Insightful)
Stiches, scraped knees and broken limbs are part of being a kid. You learned from your stitches. It took me more stitches - but i eventually learned.
We shouldn't take the learning experiences away from kids.
Re:Simple Child Care (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Simple Child Care (Score:3, Insightful)
This IS Massachusetts we're talking about - the nanny state of all nanny states.
Their Senators are named Kennedy and Kerry.
'Nuff said.
Re:Sheep, Wolves, Sheepdogs (Score:4, Insightful)
For those who think that sheepdogs are irrelevant, let me ask you, what would you do to protect yourself from the wolves?
Re:WTF? (Score:3, Insightful)
Anyhow not being allowed to run in recess is not new. In NYC public schools (at least the ones I went to) we were not allowed to run. Of course we did it, but it usually ended in the teacher chasing you down and making you sit in a corner for a few minutes to "settle down". It wasn't until junior high or high school when there was organized PE that we got any real excersize (still no football or tag). Those programs were good, they taught exersizes that we could/should do on our own to maintain our bodies. That's what is truly needed.
The point of the article isn't lost on me...lawsuits for "kids being kids" are ridiculous. I just don't think this is a compelling counter-argument.
Final solution (Score:2, Insightful)
Clearly, we can't allow any pain or injury at all. Therefor, all children should have all sensory nerves severed before entering school. To prevent injury we can epoxy a big wrapping of foam rubber on to them. They can breathe through tubes connected to HEPA filters.
Then, when they turn 18, we can send them to Iraq. If they live through that for at least 3 years we can let them drink in lieu of actual psychological help but we must all agree to disapprove on the record and wonder aloud why they can't just be productive little consumers like their parents.
I suppose we COULD insist that our civil law system acknoledge once and for all that sometimes stuff just happens and that it's really not reasonable or just to randomly subject people to thousands in legal bills they can't afford just to affirm that. Then....NAAAH! It'll never happen, pass the epoxy and a scalple!
Now if we could just figure out where they get the idea that popping some pills is a reasonable answer to life's little problems.
Really? Who are they going to play tag with then? (Score:2, Insightful)
Small lessons w/minor consequences (Score:2, Insightful)
We are ending up with a society that is afraid of its own shadow, that cannot make real life and death decisions, and that wants to be protected from all harm. Without being exposed to activities where one could possibly be hurt in a minor fashion, people do not have a frame of reference to make decisions when things really do matter. Instead when someone does get hurt, there is a huge outcry to ban whatever activity caused the injury, no matter how minor.
I hate seeing anyone hurt, especially kids, but the lessons that can be learned from a minor mishap can hopefully be applied later when making a decision that has real consequences. Some of natures more harsher tests are a pass/fail grade with no chance to take the test again, it's much better being able to take some of the smaller pop quizes.
get sued (Score:3, Insightful)
I think most of us live in far more fear of civil courts than we do of terrorists. Likely soldiers in Iraq are more afraid of getting hauled into court on trumped up charges than they do the insurgents.
Re:Simple Child Care (Score:5, Insightful)
To amend your statement: Thank you, opportunistic lawyers, wussy judges, and uninformed juries of America for creating a sue-me state that makes a simple game of tag a serious legal liability.
Re:Simple Child Care (Score:4, Insightful)
Why aren't cars illegal, then? Why aren't there driver terror lists? Alchohol watch lists?
dude, booze and cars are great sources of tax revenue. if you could get terra-ists to pay enough in taxes and have their own lobby on capitol hill, boards of education would teach kids how to make bombs in shop class.
Re:DCFS (Score:5, Insightful)
This is prime example of what they have spoken about as far as the Wussification of America. We don't play tag, we don't play sports to win or lose, we have to cry to the authorities when things don't go our way.
This is a joke. Sports and especially games like Tag and Dodgeball teach prime lessions about life. That is mainly - if you don't like being the guy picked last or the one that is always it, or always getting hit first - GET BETTER. Seriously. If you are slow, and you are IT in tag, you better get faster or else you will always be it. If you don't like getting hit by the ball in dodge ball - learn to catch, and then learn to dish it out when you do have the ball.
Hell, sports - places don't want to keep score because "it will hurt feelings." BOO HOO. If you don't like losing - start winning. Learn to play better. Catch the football, hit the baseball, work out your jumper.
The amazing thing is that some of our best athletes were guys who learned that they hated to lose - Jordan (guy didn't even make JV his Sophmore year in high school!!!), McEnroe, Sampras, Montana, Gretsky (canaidian, but you get the point).
Fact is - IMHO, things like this are what are taking the competitve edge away from our country. It is starting the wusses young and making them that way as they grow up.
RonB
Re:Simple Child Care (Score:3, Insightful)
But there's no way I would treat my kid with kid gloves.
Re:WTF? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Simple Child Care (Score:2, Insightful)
Thank you...I was thinking along those line just the other day, when it dawned on me, that I'd not see a freaking diving board in a private or public swimming pool since I was.....lets see....about 16???
Geez...With freaked out paranoid parents, and the lawyers, I feel sorry for the kids of today who can't seem to do much of anything we did that was fun...and amazingly enough, survived!!
People wonder why the kids of today are fat, lazy and only want to sit inside and play video games. Well, its because no one lets them do fun outdoor things like we used to.
I do feel sorry for them today...sigh.
please clarify (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Simple Child Care (Score:5, Insightful)
Not for long. You just know someone is going to sue the major video game companies for childhood obesity, and some wussy judge is going to allow the suit to proceed... and, of course, some uninformed jury is going to award millions to the plaintiff, who was only a victim of his own inability to get his ass off the couch once in a while.
Re:DCFS (Score:5, Insightful)
It's only just starting in sports, but soon it'll be just like the academic subjects: Everyone who wants to play a sport gets randomly distributed onto teams of mixed ability levels, and everyone is encouraged to play at the median level. Those who are faster, more flexible, more skilled, etc will have to sit on the sidelines until the rest of the team "catches up". The ones with real talent will have to look to outside programs to have any chance at developing their skills further.
Re:Simple Child Care (Score:3, Insightful)
That's a great idea. The local schools here are run by absolute crooks and your proposed idea would allow them to hire child molesters too.
Re:Simple Child Care (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Simple Child Care (Score:1, Insightful)
Huh? You mean that in America, when a kid gets hurt the parents have to pay for treatment? Bizarre. I cannot imagine what it must be like to live in a country where emergency medical care is not free. A country where poor parents can't afford to have their kids taken care of is hardly a shining light for the nations.
In fact, it strikes me as simply barbaric to basically say to a child, "sorry, I can't treat your injuries because your parents don't have enough money". How can doctors, who have sworn oaths to help the sick and wounded, live with themselves after turning injured children away?
(Don't give me that "other countries pay for it through taxes" bullshit, either. The proportion of my taxes that goes towards funding national healthcare is far, far smaller than the amount I'd have to pay to get comparable cover from a private health insurance scheme.)
Re:WTF? (Score:3, Insightful)
There's a lot of blaming the schools in this discussion, but the real problem is with society. We allowed it to get this bad.
-dave
Re:Erm... (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, and math and chess clubs are excuses by homosexuals with no social skills to hide from girls. (See, two of us can make completely baseless and false generalizations!)
In short, cry me a river, Poindexter.
For the record, I played (and was good at) dodgeball, football, hockey, and most other sports.
I also played D&D, hung out with the computer geeks, and got picked on by bullies (yes, even kids good at sports get picked on.)
If you want people to take you seriously, try growing up a little.