Imminent Mandrake Name Change?

An anonymous reader writes "Mandrakesoft has lost a trial and has been condemned to change its name and its logo" The article is in French, but it says that King Syndicates owns a trademark on Mandrake the Magician. Update MandrakeSoft can use the logo during appeals, which may take up to 3 years. You can now read their official statement on the ruling.

Mandash?

Seems to be all the rage [slashdot.org]lately.

Domain names only?

Based on a reading of the article, maybe Mandrake is only going to have to transfer domain name(s). Like Mandrake.com [mandrake.com], and not rename the company altogether. The article is kinda sparse on those kind of details.

Re:I say, play it safe.

I was about to ask what file you used to sum, then i realised it has all the alphabet in, and certain next-to-each-other keys that in fact tell me you just mashed your keyboard ;)

Re:Domain names only?

poster wrote:

Based on a reading of the article, maybe Mandrake is only going to have to transfer domain name(s)

guess my french is better than yours:

Pour l'heure, Mandrake a fait appel, suspendant le jugement et preservant ainsi sa marque et ses noms de domaines.

means:

For now, Mandrake has appealed, suspending the judgement and preserving both its' mark and domain names.

So, no, they won't have to give up their domain names just yet... :-)

no, Manfox

Although, I should warn you, I just patented the procedure of resolving copyright issues by changing the suffix of a product to "fox".

Remember Mobilix?

Mandrake gestures hypnotically and the world believes the name of a plant, claimed to have medicinal properties, belongs to a cartoon construct, which ceased to be popular in the 80's, and therefore restricts the use of the name from any other use, cartoon related or not.

Lothar: "Damn! Mandrake(c), that's as amazing as when Asterix kicked Mobilix in the ass! [slashdot.org]"

Narda: "Oh, Mandrake(c), take me now!"

Re:Remember Mobilix?

I was expecting someone to post something like this.
Mandrake the distro was indeed based on Mandrake the character. Their earlier logo [geocities.com] was a penguin dressed as a magician

Re:Remember Mobilix?

Does it really matter?

A cartoon is not competing in the same field of business as an operating system. You typically own the trademark of a name (what does copyright have to do with this anyway?) for a specific field of business.

For instance, Ford would be automative-related, but they couldn't sue over the name "Ford Prefect" being used in a science-fiction book that has nothign to do with the automotive industry.

Re:Remember Mobilix?

Actually when he got to earth he decided to use the name Ford Prefect because he saw it on so many cars and thought it would be inconspicuous. The Prefect was the name of a Ford model that was marketed in the UK at the time.

Re:Remember Mobilix?

Actually, Ford Prefect was the name of a car made by Ford. The joke was that he had picked a name to blend in with the the dominant lifeform on Earth.

But, you're right, the charcter's name did nothing to devalue their trademark, just like a modern operating system does nothing to devalue a 70 year old comic strip character.

Not sure which one you meant...

But I found a working link to a Mandrake character: Mandrake the Magician [kingfeatures.com]. Dating from 1934 (!).

We are steadily reaching the clear conclusion

The primary enemy of Linux at this point is not SCO.

It is cartoon characters.

Hey, you know, now that I think about it, Elmer Fudd did always wear a red hat [toonopedia.com]...

Re:We are steadily reaching the clear conclusion

The primary enemy of Linux at this point is not SCO. It is cartoon characters. Hey, you know, now that I think about it, Elmer Fudd did always wear a red hat...

That's nothing. Imagine the mixed feelings some of us would have if this guy [berkeleybreathed.com] and Washington Post Writers Group sued Linux distros and Linus over the penguin. Or the estate of Charles M. Schulz sued over the name 'Linus' and confusion with 'Linux'. Yeah, SCO is going down, but these cartoon characters are represent a serious threat.

"Where's the Kaboom? There's supposed to be an earthshattering Kaboom!"

Google translation

Mandrake will have to change name

Was Mandrake, editor French of the distribution Linux eponyme, condemned by the TGI of Paris, to pour 70 000? at the American companies Hearst Holdings and King Fearture Syndicate, owners of the mark "Mandrake the magician", and editor of the comic strip of the same name. These last had carried felt sorry for in France for "diversion of mark". Especially, the court prohibited to the French the use of his name, and presses Mandrake to transfer its domain names towards the two American companies. A judgment which could carry a fatal blow to the French editor, whose goodwill rests only on its distribution eponyme.
For l?heure, Mandrake appealed, suspending the judgement and thus preserving its mark and its domain names.
Let us point out qu?un preceding judgement - bearing on the logo - had ruled in favour of the two American companies. The French had already had to re-examine his copy.

Re:Google translation

And here's the same passage translated by google from French to German to English to Italian to English:

Mandrake must for the change of name of Mandrake, is the French publisher of the distribution of Linux of eponyme pouring itself condemned from the TGI from Paris, 70.000? in the societies Hearst Americans to obtain the thing and owner of the king Fearture Syndicate of the indication "Mandrake magicien" and Herausgeberin of the pulled volume of the same name. These the posterior one had transported the claim in France for "the indication exclusion". Especially the court pribisce to the use of the relative name to the French and presses Mandrake that transfers the relati to you names of zone towards the two societies Americans. A judgment, in a position to transporting a mortal blow them to the French publisher, the relative good will on the relative distribution of eponyme is only based. For the l?heure Mandrake it has made the appointment, that it suspends the judgment and that therefore the relative indication maintains and relative to the zone names. Memories to on qu?un that the judgment preceding - that interests the brand - determines for the two societies Americans. The French has already had to still examine the relative copy.

Manual translation

I have five minutes right now, so here ya go:

Mandrake has to cahge its name

The TGI of Paris has sentenced Mandrake, the French editor of the Linux distribution of the same name has been to pay 70000 to the American companies Hearst Holdings and King Fearture Syndicate, owners of the brand "Mandrake le magicien" (Mandrake, the Wizard), and editors of the comic by the same name. The latter had brought this to court in France for "detournement de marque" (detouring of mark). The court also interdicted the French the further use of their name and demands Mandrake to hand their names and domains to the two American companies -- verdict which could be a deadly blow to the French company whose business resides solely on the distribution on their distribution "Mandrake"

For the moment, Mandrake has called to the appeals court, thus suspending the judgement, and thus maintaining their brand and their domains.

Let us remember [I love French expressions] that a preceding judgement concerning the logo had been in favor of the American companies. The French already had to review (modify) their copy.

Bob

Creepy stuff, hope MS doesn't make me change my name from Bob to Blob

Re:Bob

Creepy stuff, hope MS doesn't make me change my name from Bob to Blob

I find myself in the same position- my real name is Clippy.

On the other hand, I've been considering changing it anyway- the trouble caused by my namesake is too much. You wouldn't believe what I've been getting through the post- really sick stuff. Death threats... you know, little paper clips straightened out or even snapped in half.

new name

Man-----?

Re:new name

Obviously Manix.

Or to we have to worry about old dead acting tv shows as well as animated works???

Re:new name

What distro are you running?

"VictorFGanzi-sucks, version 10.0 beta"

Re:new name

Manos, the Distribution of Fate.

Torgo would make an excellent mascot. Ooh...a Torgo penguin....

come on!

this is getting ridiculous! I don't really love the name Firefox, but at least Mozilla went to the trouble of Trademarking the name before announcing and using it. this should be a wake-up call to ANYONE starting a company or software project; do your homework before settling on a name.

CB

Re:come on!

do your homework before settling on a name

Uh... from my apalling understanding of French and the not much better automatic translators, I get the distinct impression this isn't another software company claiming the name. This is a cartoon strip. And it appears the owners of the copyright are claiming complete and exclusive use of the name of a plant, which has been used for centuries.

Re:come on!

And it appears the owners of the copyright are claiming complete and exclusive use of the name of a plant, which has been used for centuries.

And it's plant that has a long "magical" (actually occult) tradition in many parts of the world because it tends to grow in the shape of a man. History of mandrake root. [preker.co.il] Their claim to the word "mandrake" as it relates to magic is wrong. If they're arguing that the association of the word "mandrake" with a cartoon penguin dressed up as a magician violates their trademark on their cartoon magician they may have a slightly better point.

-dameron

Re:come on!

Yeah, anyone starting a software project online better run trademark searches in all 200+ countries because one of them might have some little company just waiting to sue you.

While you're at it, better make sure that you check all the trademarks for all the products, in case you run into someone in some IP-backwater country who hasn't been brought into the modern age of realistic trademark protection (ie, based on product confusion). Really, who is going to confuse Mandrake the Linux Distribution with Mandrake the Magician?

Next thing you know, Linux will be forced to change its name because someone's great, great, great grandfather in Lubineria trademarked "linux" as a brand of horseshoe and there trademarks never expire.

Re:come on!

Except that Mandrake Linux is a rather blatant rip-off of the Mandrake the Magician cartoon.

Look at their current logo. (The topic icon [slashdot.org].) Notice the little "magic" star and spark thingy. Notice a theme? Magic, maybe?

Take a look at their old logo [wanadoo.fr]. Compare with this image of Mandrake the Magician [jackleach.com]. Notice any similarities? Other than the penguin, it's basically the same thing - including the cape and wand! Although Mandrake the Magician doesn't have a big ugly star, and the cape is blue and not red.

It seems quite clear that Mandrake Linux intended to rip off Mandrake the Magician's look and name. It seems very clear to me that Mandrake Linux is in the wrong and will need to change their name. It's obvious they knew about Mandrake the Magician - they copied him for their original logo!

Re:come on!

Mandrake, the word, has extremely old associations with "magic". Witches back a few hundred years ago claimed that mandrake root could cure various illnesses (blindness, disease). So, basically, we have a cartoon that is using a word already associated with magic for a magician's name, as well as for a linux distribution. Unless there's /proof/ that MandrakeSoft got the name from Mandrake the Magician and /not/ from mandrake root, then I don't see why they should have to change.

From PoTO [poto.com]:

"General information: The roots of Mandrake resemble the human form. Many Witchs' traditions collected round the Mandrake root. As an amulet, it is placed on a mantelpiece to avert misfortune and to bring prosperity and happiness to the house. In Henry VIII's time, little images made from the roots, cut into the figure of a man, with grains of millet inserted into the face as eyes, fetched high prices. They were known as puppettes or mammettes, and were accredited with magical powers. Italian ladies were known to pay high prices for similar amulets of Mandrake.

Women who want to conceive, and men seeking to cure impotency carry the root. Where there is mandrake, demons cannot reside, and so the root is used in exorcism.

Use of minute prepared portions can enhance psychic awareness & abilities, and in magickal spells mandrake is used to increase sexual desire. "

Re:come on!

Bringing up Mozilla is interesting. It's a great error that Mandrake can lose a lawsuit over naming themselves after a plant because of a totally unrelated cartoon character that nobody cares about anymore which just happens to be named after the same plant, but Mozilla is powerless to do anything about the computer application "Popzilla" which is clearly trying to capitalize on Mozilla's success by creating confusion in the marketplace.

Re:come on!

Please do a trademark search next time. Like here [patent.gov.uk]. And notice that Mandrake and Mandrake the Magician are both registered. So yeah, at least Mandrake "went to the trouble of Trademarking the name before announcing and using it."

this should be a wake-up call to ANYONE ... do your homework before settling on a name. (emphasis mine)

heh

Re:come on!

My next project will be named "Jprogjorjfwwfffffffwweewer33111l", just to be safe. It's an open source calendaring app.

Re:come on!

I claim prior art!

I made that sound over a toilet once after drinking too much goldschalger.

Wikipedia about mandrake

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Mandrake is the common name for the plant Mandragora, whose roots, because their curious bifurcation cause them to have a semblance to the human figure (male & female), have long been used in witchcraft. It is alleged by adherents of the dark arts that when the plant is pulled from the ground, it shrieks in pain. Supposedly, this shriek is able to kill or deafen an unprotected human; the occult literature includes complex directions for harvesting a mandrake root in relative safety.

The Mandrake is a member of the Solanaceae (or Nightshade) family.

Other uses of this term include:

* Mandrake Linux
* Mandragoras, familiar demons (mandrakes)
* Mandrake, a comedic play written by Niccolo Machiavelli in 1518
* Leon Mandrake, magician (1911 - 1993)
* Mandrake the Magician, comic strip character
* Mandrake (publishers)

I thought this one out aloud

And my office buddy heard it.

Me: *shakes head* Mumbles to himself, "France is making Mandrake change it's name, some trademark infringement."

Buddy: "France? Screw France. Tell'em they should rename it 'france'."

There ya go, francesoft. Fitting. I doubt he knows it's a product of frenchies.

Magician or software

I thought copyrights usually only worked if the two items were in the same field. How is anyone going to get Mandrake Linux confused with some crappy comic strip magician?

Not the only use of that word

So, do they also own the trademark on mandrake, the plant? Why can't Mandrake-the-Linux-company claim that they're named after the root long thought of as magical by certain cultures?

Re:Not the only use of that word

Why can't Mandrake-the-Linux-company claim that they're named after the root

Because that would be dishonest. The original Mandrake logo was a pinguin in a magicians outfit.

Re:Not the only use of that word

I'm not sure about France and IANAL, but when I looked at trademarks late last year for a UK or an EU trademark you had to register it under one or more classes, and the trademark would only protect you against products that also fall under those classes. If a product fell under a different class to one you registered, you were not protected.

Software development fell under class 38 or 42 (can't remember which one).

Re:Not the only use of that word

Why can't Mandrake-the-Linux-company claim that they're named after the root long thought of as magical by certain cultures?

The Linux distro that shrieks when you try to uninstall it.

M---

"Newsflash! In order to prevent copyright issues, Mandrake has now changed name to M--- (pronounced "MASH")"

I remember Mandrake...

I read some when I was young, Mandrakesoft should not take the name Lotharsoft :)

A no brainer...

Announcing Firebird Linux.

Mandragora?

How about 'mandragora' as a replacement for 'mandrake'? According to dictionary.com [reference.com], mandragora is the Old English version of mandrake. A Google search for "Mandragora the Magician" returned no hits, so it should be safe.

My human translation

Here's my attempt, from several years of long-ago High School French class. No fish were involved in this translation.

Mandrake will have to change its name

Mandrake, French writers of its self-titled Linux distrubtion, has been ordered by the Paris TGI to pay 70,000 Euros to the American companies, Hearst Holdings and King Feature Syndicate, owners of the trademark "Mandrake the Magician", and writers of the [bande dessinee] of the same name. The American companies filed suit in France for "trademark infringement". Now, the court has forbidden the use of the name in French, and is pressuring Mandrake to transfer its domain names to the two American companies. It's an order that could be a fatal blow to the French writers, for whom the foundation of their business rests entirely on their eponymous Linux distribution.

For now, Mandrake has appealed, which suspends the judgement and, for the moment, preserves its trademark and domain names.

Remember that a previous judgement on Mandrake's logo was ruled in favor of the two American companies. The French subsidiary had already had to rework its artwork.

Oh, the french...

They are a funny people. This would never have happened in the good old US of A. Oh, wait...

M&rake

M&rake is much better than inserting dashes, and you can still pronounce it the same way!

Other suggestions: Find someone with a surname of Houdini to endorse the project...

Re:M&rake

Mampersandrake? I don't get it.

It's ridiculous.

Mandrake, Lindows... Both for profit corporations, both trying to make money.

Why not a little investment in a trademark/copyright search before they pick a name?

I mean, is this a "we're too cheap" or a "we dont believe in IP! down with the man!" issue?

We recently named a new product where I work. We rejected the first name we chose after a trademark search turned something else up.

Or do they just set up a situation where this will happen, so they can cry "boo hoo hoo look at these evil corporate bastards?"

MSFT/King Features don't have a choice, really, they have to defend their trademarks, else lose them.

Interesting

Dictionary.com definition [reference.com]

mandrake ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mndrk)
n.

1. A southern European plant (Mandragora officinarum) having greenish-yellow flowers and a branched root. This plant was once believed to have magical powers because its root resembles the human body.
   
2. The root of this plant, which contains the poisonous alkaloid hyoscyamine. Also called mandragora.
   

Granted I know nothing of copyright law in France: but wouldn't this case also be related to that old decision between Apple Computer and Apple Record Company? Two separate buisinesses could both hold the same trademark in different arenas. Also it involves trademarking a common word such as the current lawsuit between Microsoft and Lindows.

All in all it seems like a pretty stupid decision by the Court.

Time for the mandatory Mandrake reference

General Jack D. Ripper: [links.net] Mandrake, do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk... ice cream. Ice cream, Mandrake, children's ice cream.

Change the logo to a duck

That should fix the problem.

Then how about

They name it Nightshade? Mandrake is part of the family of nightshade plants, so that would not only seem appropraite but a promotion.

Obviously, their NEW name should be ...

Mandark [google.com], but that's probably trademarked too.

Separated at Birth?

Mandrake the Magician [deepwoods.org]

Mandrake the Penguin [wanadoo.fr]

There's no denying that the original inspiration for the name, the design of the Mandrake Linux mascot was derived from the old comics character. But Mandrakesoft has steered away from that lately, and I'd think that if they dropped any remaining references to magic in their marketing (including the star symbol), and argued the genericness of "mandrake" apart from those references, they should (by any reasonable standard) be allowed to continue using the "Mandrake" name.

Moondrake

Sounds similar and for an added bonus the logo can be a duck baring it's arse in the direction of a magician.

They are DIFFERENT MARKETS!!

What happened to the whole thing about Trademarks not infringing across different markets.. A Comic Strip and a Software Company are significantly different markets.. Now if mandrakesoft were to start making a mandrake linux comic strip then the "mandrake the magician" would have something to complain about..

Possible New Names for Mandrake

Goatse Linux - Filling the biggest holes in your operation
Schlafly Linux - We never go down
Jackson Linux - Great for Kids
Vaigara Linux - Uptimes Like You Have Never Seen

Ok, explain this to me...

There is a company named Microsoft, wich is perfectly fine for me, producing a whole range of straight named apps such as
- Windows
- Outlook
- Word
- Explorer
- and so on...

but if you pick an uncommon, creative name such as Phoenix, Mandrake, or Lindows (yeah, it's not original but it's more of a brandname than a plain word as Windows) you get sued all over the place. What is wrong here? Maybe one should simply name products the easy way:
- Desk (a GUI)
- Play (a Musicplayer for Linux)
- Surf (A Webbrowser)
- Paint (A graphical....DuH!)

cu,
Lispy

Mandrake is a plant name!

See Mandrake [botanical.com] This is like United Syndicates suing Planters for use of the name "Peanuts"!

Name Suggestion...

...perhaps they should change it to FireDrake?

Manfox or Firedrake?

What's it gonna be this week? :)

cLive ;-)

Hey Mandrake Guys! Watch Out!

Hey Mandrake guys,

Watch out!

I don't know no Paris talk, but you gotta watch out for King Features so they don't get you by the pate de foie gras again.

In particular, avoid the following King Features [kingfeatures.com] names when branding:

Anything 3G, Baby Blues, Barney Google, Snuffy Smith, Beetle Bailey, Betty Boop, Bizarro, Blondie, Buckles, CowParade, Curtis, Dennis the Menace, Flash Gordon, Funky Winkerbean, Hagar the Horrible, Hazel, Henry, Judge Parker, Katzenjammer Kids, Mallard Fillmore, Mark Trail, Marvin, Mary Worth, Moose, Molly, Mother Goose, The Phantom, Popeye, Prince Valiant, Redeye, Rex Morgan, Sally Forth, Sam, Silo, Sherman, Slylock Fox, Spiderman, Steve Roper, Mike Nomad, Tiger, Trudy, Tumbleweeds, Zippy, Zits.

Merci beaucoup.

PersonDrake is still sexist

PersonDrake still contains the male-only reference to Duck. Therefore, change it to:

PersonDuck

Fish tastes bad... :P

Here's a somewhat better cleaned up version from a French student. I'm not a native speaker (or anywhere nearly that good, in spite of all the years I've studied this...) so by all means, if someone understands the implications of some of these idiomatic phrases better than I do (I'm not convinced I understand some of them by any means), have at it.

========

Mandrake must change names

Mandrake, the French publisher of a Linux distribution, was sentenced by TGI of Paris to a 70,000 Euro fine at the request of the American companies, Hearst Holdings and King Features Syndicate, the owners of the trademark "Mandrake the magician" and publishers of the comic of the same name. The companies had sued for "trademark dilution." The court has prohibited the French use of the name, and ordered Mandrake to transfer its domain names to the two American companies. This judgement could be a fatal blow for the French publisher, whose goodwill is tied to its distribution network. For the time being, Mandrake has appealed to suspend the judgement and thus preserve its mark and domain names. A previous judgement - concerning their logo - had already been ruled in favor of the two American companies. It is also being appealed.

Re:Thanks, 'Fish

Here's a link to a site (in english) with a very very brief overview of the issue and images of the 3 different mandrakes: Mandrake issued cease and desist [a42.com]