IE7 Released and Available for Download

Luis Escalante writes "After over a year and a half, IE7 has been released to the public as of Monday afternoon. Download it directly here. Word hit the streets after several mangers of the IE division posted on the IE blog."

Security patches

[TommydCat]

in 3..2..1...

"funny" but true

[User 956]

It's completely telling that the first comment on that page, is a comment by a guy who's worried IE7 is going to trash his computer [digitaltrends.com].

If that's the first reaction people have, firefox has a pretty good chance.

Re:"funny" but true

[shmlco]

And in typical Microsoft fashion, downloading and installing an internet BROWSER requires... what else? That you reboot your computer.

Maybe it IS integrated, after all...

Re:"funny" but true

[compupc1]

IE 7 is actually less integrated than IE 6 was. However, the IE rendering engine is provided as a library for other applications to use. Any other applications that have embedded browser controls depend on IE -- and as they should. Applications should not have to deal with HTML rendering on their own. I would imagine this would cover everything from help systems to chat clients to things like the Add/Remove programs dialog.

Since other browsers don't come pre-installed on Windows computers, IE tends to be a neccesity (whether Windows should make it easier for applications to rely on other 3rd party browsers is a separate issue). As such, a system reboot is neccesary as the rendering engine itself, exposed as a library, must be updated. Basically it just ensures nothing is using the browser control at the time of update.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

While this may be true, it is possible to determine if other programs currently have your (old) library loaded up, and if they don't, you can safely replace it. Yes, it's even possible that one might ask the user to terminate the specific programs that are using the library, and if they don't want/can do that at the moment, to schedule the update for the next boot up.

What is amazing is that there are installation programs who can do this, and they work very, very well (for me). Barring some very strange cod

Re:

[masklinn]

However, the IE rendering engine is provided as a library for other applications to use. Any other applications that have embedded browser controls depend on IE -- and as they should. Applications should not have to deal with HTML rendering on their own.

As such, a system reboot is neccesary as the rendering engine itself, exposed as a library, must be updated. Basically it just ensures nothing is using the browser control at the time of update.

Yeah, code hotloading is for t00pids

understandable, still embarassing

[Phormion]

I can understand that a reboot is necessary, given the details you provide. However, don't you find it embarassing that a browser install requires a reboot?

I double-boot Windows and Linux at work. I use mostly Linux (SuSE) and their automatic update feature is quite painless - you only have to reboot on kernel updates, which aren't that common. However, it always pisses me off when I restart to Windows and I have to restart another 10 times to install all patches that came out in the meantime. This is god

Re:"funny" but true

[/ASCII]

A perfect example of why the filesystem model in Windows is broken.

The kind of issue you describe is solved automatically by the filesystem on Unix systems. If one process deletes a file that is opened by any process, then that file will be unlinked from the filesystem, but remain useable to the process that was already using the file. The file is not actually deleted from disk until all processes stop using it.

Among many other things, this means that you can safely upgrade a library, or even a program, that is running. The old processes will keep running the old library with no issues but any new processes that are created will automatically use the new one. Once all old processes die, the space used by the old library is returned to the filesystem.

There are gotchas with the 'Unix way', like correctly handling configuration files that are only open on startup and shutdown, but these issues can be handled with a bit of care.

Under Linux, people routinely upgrade Firefox or even the X windowing system while the programs themselves are still running. Afterwards, they simply restart the program in question to run the new version.

Re:

[/ASCII]

No need to be offensive.

Last time I upgraded Firefox on Windows (which, admitedly was a long time ago) you had to close Firefox and any program using it before starting the upgrade. But no matter what FF does, the upgrade method I described in my previous post _doesn't_ work under Windows. Removing a file that is opened by some other program _will_ fail under Windows. You need to either shut down all programs using a library, or install the new library to a different location. I don't know which one of thes

Re:"funny" but true

[dabraun]

What would it even mean for it to "require DRM" ... methinks you don't actually know what DRM is. DRM "support" is like support for opening acrobat documents. If you install it, you can play the content, if you don't then you can't. If you never play the content it makes no difference whether or not you've installed it (ok, Acrobat is probably a bad example ... :)

It's not like having the code on your machine to support playing DRM'd WMA files is somehow going to change what happens when you play MP3s or run other applications.

Re:"funny" but true

[Erik Hensema]

What if glibc contains a security hole? What's the faster, more reliable option: rebooting or manually restarting ALL processes?

On a desktop, does it really matter if your reboot or logout/login?

MSIE is first and foremost a html rendering library. Surely it's bundled with a webbrowsing frontend named msie.exe, but msie.exe is just one of many users of the library. On a major upgrade like this, how do you guarantee all applications are linked against the new version of the library? And please take into account that most of your user base are users, not admins.

Rebooting is just a sane thing to do. I've seen way too many rooted unix boxes with uptime > 2 years...

Re:WARNING

[moresheth]

I know that this sounds like a troll, and you can mod it that way if you want, but it did really happen.

I already had RC2 installed on it. I downloaded the exe linked from the article and ran it.

It uninstalled the old IE, rebooted, worked on installing for about five minutes, then rebooted.

After that, it would get to the desktop without the menu bar at the bottom and show errors:

lsass.exe
The application failed to initialize properly. (0xc0000005) Click OK to terminate the application.

It had the same error for services.exe, and show them both twice.

After that, it does nothing.

This is just a warning for people. It screwed up mine, I assumed it was screwing up others, too.

Re:"funny" but true

[NetDanzr]

Same here. All it did after about fifteen minutes of installing was to give me the link to a IE Troubleshooting page [microsoft.com], where I found out that "Something has caused the computer not to trust the Internet Explorer 7 installation package."

It was bound to happen eventually: my computer became smarter than me....

Re:Security patches

[moresheth]

What's that sound?

Oh yeah, it's thousands of webmasters scrambling to test their sites on the latest mutilation of web standards.

Re:Security patches

[jZnat]

Since MS fixed the "* html" hack and a few others yet forgot to fix the rest of CSS they shit on, we're going to have fun with this one...

Re:Security patches

[Antique Geekmeister]

Oh, it's much worse: did you notice this part from the Webmaster checklist?

          HTTP content cannot be included in an HTTPS page (see the Internet Explorer Blog article).

Now expect the sound of thousands of admins whining as their critical mixed-content webpages fail to load, and the sound of millions of dollars of new servers and SSL accelerators to support SSL encryption of all the dancing bears on web servers that are signed into with HTTPS, but have all their image content on HTTP.

And oh, yes, expect the sounds of millions of tech support people with Indian accents getting phone calls from irate Americans and asking the inevitable question "Have you rebooted your computer, sir?" I hope Microsoft will pay for the new fiber-optic cable to support all the tech support calls.

This is going to be fun to watch, especially for web pages designed with old pieces of Microsoft design garbage like FrontPage.

Re:Opportunity for SSL vendors?

[panaceaa]

Actually, the change isn't as major as I thought. According to an IEBlog article [msdn.com]:

"In addition, users will no longer see the so-called Mixed-Content prompt, which read: This page contains both secure and nonsecure items. Do you want to see the nonsecure items? IE7 renders only the secure content and offers the user the opportunity to unblock the nonsecure content using the Information Bar. This is an important change because very few users (or web developers) fully understand the security risks of rendering HTTP-delivered content within a HTTPS page."

So basically, if pages previously displayed the Mixed-Content prompt, now they'll act slightly differently. But there's very few serious corporations or online services that display that error message, so I believe the impact on F5's revenues will be minimal. Oh well, I thought I was on to something :).

Re:Security patches

[gunnk]

Clearly you are not a sysadmin or a web developer.

For sysadmins you have to decide when to push out IE7 to your great unwashed masses. Are there compatibility problems due to your corporate desktop configuration? You don't want to find out after you push it out to a few hundred or half million machines. It is significant because it breaks apart much of the previous integration, it uses a different security model, and it treats http content in https sessions differently. Making sure everything is going to work correctly in your environment is a big deal.

For web developers, you probably already have IE hacks running rampant through your sites. IE 7 adds another version to deal with. If the CSS handling really is much better, then you'll just need to exclude the many hacks needed for previous IE versions. If it is improved, but still not great, you'll have to tweak all the hacks so that your layout works with yet another partially-compliant IE version. Again, it's a big deal.

IE is part of your Windows system, like it or not. You can say "don't browse the web with IE", but you CAN'T completely avoid it on a Windows system without real difficulties. IE 6 is completely integrated into your system. Hopefully IE 7 is better. In ANY case, a system level upgrade on a functioning Windows box is nothing to take lightly.

Re:Security patches

[Crayon Kid]

Since MS fixed the "* html" hack and a few others yet forgot to fix the rest of CSS they shit on, we're going to have fun with this one...

Only if you're a web developer that's been living under a rock lately.

For the best part of last year proeminent webdev figures have adviced people to stop using the * html hack. The better alternative is to make use of the conditional comments supported by all versions of Explorer and conditionally include an extra .css file (or several) on top of the others, that only IE will see.

Those conditionals allow you to pinpoint various IE versions accurately and also let your website validate properly (since all the IE hacks are included via a stylesheet which is technically commented out).

I'm not giving you links, do your own homework people.

Re:Security patches

[torstenvl]

Can we mod -1 Deliberately Uninformative?

I thought the burden of proof was usually on the guy who asserts something.

Re:

[baadger]

RC1 froze the rendering engine until release. What's the big deal?

Re:

[jamie]

... zero [secunia.com]

Oh thank Christ..

[QuantumG]

of course, I would have prefered them to have released it before I bowed to management and hacked around all the non-standard shit in IE6 which IE7 fixes. urg!

I'm not going to get it

[atomicthumbs]

I'll use Firefox (and OPera, if a plugin for Stumbleupon is released for it) for the rest of my life. Failing that, I'll use the worldf's most secure broswer: Mosaic 1.0!

Several Mangers?

[Guido del Confuso]

Word hit the streets after several mangers of the IE division posted on the IE blog.

It's official--IE7 is the web browser used by Jesus!

User interface?

[FlyByPC]

So can the WMP-inspired interface be made to go away, and the interface made to look like a real Windows app (with the menu bar, and IE6-style controls etc?)

I think I'll stick to Firefox, thanks.

Re:

[sabernet]

Wow...I'm usually the last bugger to defend MS, but you can indeed show the menu by right clicking and checking "Menu bar".

Not there by default though.

I must admit, IE7 ain't bad. Still gonna use FF or Flock(for shared bookmarks) for now though.

Re:User interface?

[Z34107]

Hmmm... a cleaner interface is a bad thing because it was Microsoft that innovated?

IE7 leaves much more space open on your screen for actual web browsing compared to IE6 (or Firefox, or most any browser minus lynx). Everything's accessible from a toolbar that uses the same icons Windows and IE have used since the dawn of time. And your precious menus that'll make it look like a "real Windows app" are hidden by your "alt" key.

Office 2007 uses a "ribbon" - a tabbed toolbar. It's pretty damn slick - you don't need your drawing tools open unless you're editing a picture, so you go to your drawing tab. (Or, you can use the toolbar that hovers by your mouse when you start editing a picture, or the formatting toolbar that appears by your mouse when you select text, etc.) It's so much cleaner, and intuitive.

But Microsoft changed things. They're not ugly and just-barely functional anymore. That's why I'm getting a Mac.

Re:

[baadger]

If anything, Microsoft is getting even uglier (have you seen Vista or Windows Live Messenger? Blech).

Vista isn't that bad once you tweak it. The first things I have been doing with the beta/rc versions are:

• Disable Glass/Transparency and Desktop Composition (Using the advanced system settings dialog which they buried)
• Switch to the "Aero Basic" theme (Yes, this is a seperate step)
• Remove the useless 4 pixel "border padding" on windows
• Get rid of the Segoe UI font (I use Tahoma) and tweak the font sizes
• Put Run b

Re:User interface?

[AaronLawrence]

Sounds like you turned off the "Vista" part of Windows Vista

I can't seem to download it...

[DaveM753]

IE6 keeps crashing due to all of the spyware/malware/trojans that installed themselves.

;-)

People will be working hard tonight!

[Rendo]

Agent: Thank you for calling tech support, how can we help you? Customer: I just installed an update to IE and my internet is now broke. Agent: *sigh* You're only the 500th person in the last hour to call, there's not much we can do call M$ since their sad attempt at catching up with the times is too little too late and to boot it wasn't done as best as possible. I suggest you use FireFox instead! Customer: What's FireFox? Agent: You know how girlfriends are better than wives? Customer: Uh... sure. A

Re:People will be working hard tonight!

[aussie_a]

Customer: Where can I locate this sexy girlfriend?

Agent: Just go to firefox.com

Customer: But.... I can't. My internet is broken. I already told you that.

Agent: Aaaaah... I gotta go. Bye.

A year and a half?

[gumpish]

After over a year and a half, IE7 has been released

I hate to break it to you Luis Escalante, but IE 6 was released in August 2001.

(Yes, strictly speaking 5 years is "over a year and a half", but the point remains.)

Re:A year and a half?

[Mikachu]

I believe he's referring to a year and a half since IE7's development was announced. According to wikipedia, that's about accurate. [wikipedia.org]

Anyone know

[kihjin]

... when the Linux port will be available? ;)

*ducks*

Re:

[ashwinds]

Two weeks after apple releases the safari port.

Re:

[Techtoucian]

This is a decent question. I'm a web developer, and the only reason I use Windows is to make sure Internet Explorer renders things properly. Sure, IE7 is a gigantic step up, but it's still not to the point I can say "Well it works in Opera and Firefox, therefore it'll work in IE."

Unfortunately it's not looking too likely we'll see Wine being able to run Internet Explorer any time soon, thanks to the bundled Windows Genuine Advantage software. There's lots of implications in emulating a "genuine" Windows m

Re:

[joebutton]

I'm a web developer, and the only reason I use Windows is to make sure Internet Explorer renders things properly.

You probably know this already, but anyone in a similar position should definitely check out ies4linux [tatanka.com.br]. IE6 / 5.5 / 5.0 only so far I'm afraid, but it works very well.

Competition

[Concern]

Once again, competition wins. Microsoft, after leveraging their monopoly power to win the browser wars, had summarily decided that there was no longer anything else in IE that needed work. IE was effectively frozen for years, bugs and all - cracked open, by stern policy, only for security fixes.

It took a free software effort with no hope of profit to do so, but MS has at long, long last bestirred themselves to code again. This has once again demonstrated the baseline of what MS' monopoly will do. Since it is not economically feasible to confront MS's monopoly powers, the commercial market for product X (browsers, office apps, OSs, etc) is effectively destroyed (sorry Opera), but at a minimum, MS is forced to compete against what the community can develop for free.

Never forget - human beings are lazy by design, and so are our organizations. No business, no politician, no religious leader, will exhibit much virtue except under threat. This is why competition and democracy have been largely effective as policy.

Whether MS wins or loses the browser war (or these days, the browser cold war), or the OS war, we have already won, because we have pushed them to innovate, to make their products more stable, more credible, and more powerful.

Re:Competition

[Kelson]

And best of all, Microsoft has realized they have to keep going [microsoft.com]:

Dave Massy (Moderator):
Q: Now that IE7 is nearing completion, can you give any information on how regularly you plan to release future versions of IE?
A: We definitely plan to release on a regular basis. Exactly when the next release will be is difficult to predict adn we still have plenty of planning and work to do. You can be assured that it will not be 5 years until the next release of IE though :) we are plannign the next two versions now.

Nice Troll

[pedestrian crossing]

I'll bite...

And yet, Linux continues to be the same impossible-to-use monstrosity it has always been.

My wife and kid do fine with it, thank you very much, and we do a lot more with our computers than most folks I know.

It is truly fascinating how the open source community can stand there like deer in the headlights congratulating themselves on how their most powerful competitor is learning so much from them. Microsoft is now creating open standards, open formats, even open source applications - not one hundred percent of the time, but hey, they're doing it! They're starting to look more and more like us.

You are correct, not 100% of the time. In fact, not even 0.1% of the time. But if they open up at all, that's a good thing. It's not a competition in the traditional sense of snarfing up market. It's a competition to be Free, which is a win-win, always. If they become more Free, good. It's not like Free has to try to be less Free in order to 'compete'.

Hey, wait a minute. Why don't we look more like Microsoft? Where's our readily accessible documentation localised in dozens of languages?

Here. [debian.org]

Where's our toll-free licensing hotline?

Not necessary. We don't compete on their terms! But if you must, this [gnu.org] will do...

Where's our reliable and knowledgeable tech support team?

Choose your interface. I like this [google.com]. BTW, it is very difficult and unwieldy to get MS tech support (human, not website) for the average user. I have never heard anyone say, "Gee, MS tech support is so reliable, knowledgeable, and easy to use!"

Our software assurance subscription that actually sends a disc in the mail when there's an update?

1990 called, they want their software distribution model back!

apt-get update && apt-get upgrade

You know what really bugs me? That last one. I used to pay $4.95 a month for a quarterly package of three major Linux distributions. I liked that. So how come now I only get that from Microsoft?

Apples and oranges. MSDN releases are limited. Linux distributions are free to use as you please.

Honestly, people. Why is Microsoft getting so much better, while *we're* really starting to SUCK?

ROTFLMAO!! We continue to get better all the time, certainly at a faster rate than the 'competition'. I would know, I actually -use- Free software, instead of trolling about it.

And on a more pressing note, just look how much closer those headlights are getting! So how many seconds to *SPLAT*?

There is no splat. Free is pretty tough to make go away.

Alternate download link

[Anonymous Coward]

www.ie7.com [ie7.com]

Re:

[MidKnight]

That's friggin' beautiful. According to whois, it's been registered since 1999 by a UK gentleman; well done! I wonder how long 'till the lawyers descend....

Ugh.

[hsmith]

Is all I have to say as a developer and business owner. Add this into the mix of shit I have to fix.

Plus, watch out, it is reported that it will be a forced update November 1st. So less time than normal to ensure the final version is kosher with your web apps!

Automatic update

[Kelson]

You'll be glad to know it's possible to block the automatic update [microsoft.com] to IE7.

IE division mangers

[mybecq]

... after several mangers of the IE division posted on the IE blog.

Several cattle and horses also tried to post, but they were quickly herded back into the cubicles.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

CSS Opacity

[Ark42]

If IE5.5+ supports "filter: alpha(opacity=50);" why couldn't they be bothered to add "opacity: 0.5;" CSS supoprt to IE7. At least they got the Alpha PNGs working good enough now. Also the <input type="button"> still renders with tons of extra padding you can't get rid of, even with padding: 0px; so buttons still show up super large in IE compared to all the other browsers.

Re:

[dylan_-]

Search for "opacity" on that page.

Opera and Explorer (both 6 and 7) support the standard "opacity" just fine.

I just checked that page. It says Firefox and Opera support it and IE doesn't. Are you sure that's the page you meant to link to?

No Mac Version?

[MightyYar]

Hmmm, I can't seem to find the Mac version. I guess I'll have to keep using 5.2. I don't see it for HP-UX or Solaris, either. I wonder if this is a mistake, or if those rascals at Microsoft are up to something?

Subtle Naming changes

[Chapium]

Did anyone notice its Windows Internet Explorer 7 and not Microsoft Internet Explorer 7?

Re:Subtle Naming changes

[Overly Critical Guy]

Yeah, it's so that when you load up Vista for the first time, your Start menu will be jam-packed with Windows Internet Explorer, Windows Mail, Windows Media Center, Windows Media Player, Windows Live Messenger download, Windows Calendar, Windows Defender, and more.

The marketing group controls Microsoft now, which makes sense since the guy leading it, Ballmer, is a marketing guy. It's the reason we have 14 versions of Vista coming out.

Re:

[ndansmith]

Actually I think that the change of brand from "Microsoft" to "Windows" has to do with anti-trust litigation. "Microsoft Internet Explorer" is a separate browser unfairly bundled exlcusively with a monopolistic OS. "Windows Internet Explorer" is part of the operating system itself. It may be a silly game of legal semantics.

Tabs!

[BeeBeard]

Guys, you've gotta try this tabbed browsing! Have you ever seen anything like it before?!?

*wink*

My First impressions

[BLACKtactx]

1: Opening Multiple Tabs (more than 20) Crashes
2: UI is TERRIBLE - why???

File / Edit / View menu:

Displays below the address / nav bar, a break from convention from every windows app Ive used in the past. A break from convention is good if its progress, this is just change for change sake, it flat out doesn't work!!!!

Command Menu:
Uses Real Estate that could be used for tabs. I want my home button beside my back and forward buttons. I cant convert to a classic view instead of the half baked attempt at a UI, or change

Navigation (back forward reload etc)
Should be grouped together.

I could go on. The fact is, Microsoft have locked me down with this software to a specific experience regarding its UI. I cant change the size of icons, nor the position of toolbars etc. Why not MS??.
Its a joke, and I havent even started playing with CSS in it yet. I was hoping for MS to listen to the cries of the RC users regarding toolbar management, they obviously didn't "hear us"

Re:

[TopSpin]

locked me down with this software to a specific experience regarding its UI. I cant change the size of icons, nor the position of toolbars etc. Why not MS??

The mostly unmovable toolbars is the first thing I noticed. The second thing is that the /. main page doesn't render correctly.

It's a mess. Firefox et al have nothing to worry about.

Re:My First impressions

[Crayon Kid]

The second thing is that the /. main page doesn't render correctly.

Which brings home an interesting point. Are we going to see complaints that "IE7 doesn't work right" because of millions of sites using IE6-specific hacks? I mean, "they" used to pull that crap with Opera and Mozilla and Firefox a lot, claiming it was their fault. Can't wait to see the downfall this time, when IE7 gets a taste of Microsoft's own medicine.

Installation takes FOREVER!!!

[wile_e_wonka]

Be forewarned that installing this version of IE7 is nothing like installation of RC1.

The 14 MB download seemed a bit large, but acceptable for MS. But I wish it warned me about the time for intallation.

First, the installer started up and did its normal thing. It downloaded updates--kind of odd for something released today--and tried to install extra software. Then I figured things were about done. In grand MS tradition, it required a computer restart--annoying, but I'm used to it from MS.

Then came the real trouble.

During the restart the IE installed hijacked the entire computer for 10 or 15 minutes. I wish it warned me before the restart that this it was going to coninue installing before I could use the computer--then I would have waited to restart until I had time. For 10 minutes the installer reached into the depths of my computer and sold its soul to Microsoft, and that was all before it installed the "Core Componants" of IE7!

Then it forced a computer restart, and then the computer was finally usable by me again (after another little pieces of work by the installer).

On top of all this, the installer never gives any indication as to how far along in the process you are--so you have no idea that it will be another 15 minutes or more while the installer copies the entire contents of your hard drive onto MS servers. I guess I've been spoiled by Opera--2 painless minutes and it's over. Basically; if you really want IE7, do it when you have time. Get dinner or something while its installing.

Just a warning.

Nasty CSS Bug

[Temujin_12]

I ran into a nasty bug the other day on a site I'm developing at work. The gist of it is that certain tags ([span] and [a href] tags) shift around strangely when zooming in and out. For an example, go to www.flickr.com, search for something that returns several pages, scroll to the bottom where the pagination links are, and zoom out to 90% (CTRL mousewheel). As of the last IE7 release before this one, IE7 zoom renders flickr's pagination links virtually useless. The work around, which only partially works around the problem, is to define a site wide CSS style of "zoom: 1;" for your tags. This is only a partial fix and causes other irregularities on your site when zooming. Seeing how this occurs on the latest release of IE7, I doubt they've since fixed the problem. Way to go IE team! [slashdot.org]

The real fix is to revert your entire layout into tables and not use divs and spans. I just put "zoom: 1;" in my style sheet then marked it as "WONT FIX" blaming IE7 and the fact that reverting to tables is a dumb idea (especially when only a fraction of users will depend on the zoom tool).

Quick Tabs feature is very nice

[akuzi]

Most of IE 7 seems to be functionality already found in Firefox, but I do like the new Quick Tabs feature (Ctrl-Q). This shows a mini version of all the tabs currently open and allows you to select one, in a similar way to Expose on OS X.

Virtual PC

[ValiantSoul]

DO NOT install this in virtual pc under Windows 2003 Enterprise (or possibly XP). On boot the Virtual Machine User Services crash immediately (not sure what this affects) and Internet Explorer will crash immediately on start. Without IE6, I have no way of getting Windows updates...

Especially don't do it if your Windows license is from MSDNAA (academic) because you only get 1 activation which is not renewable. In other words, I'm screwed. (Mac user, just have Windows for testing my web sites in IE, and no I will NEVER pay to get a copy of M$ Windows)

10 Minutes from Installation to UnInstallation

[wjramsey]

Here's my experience:
1) Install IE7 since it's out of beta - downloads and installs in about 2 minutes.
2) Reboot PC - 1 minute
3) Enable menu bar - 2 minutes trying to get it to move to the top. Nope
4) Try to change search engine to Altavista - 2 minutes - exception thrown just typing a letter in the search menu.
5) Remove IE7 - 2 minutes
6) Reboot - 1 minute

(I guess I might have also added the about 5 minutes svchost ran my cpu to 100% after the first reboot)

How horrible..... :(

How widely will this be used?

[jez9999]

We hear reports of huge numbers of corporate machines using a warezed XP key to allow them to install Windows en masse; huger numbers of people in countries in Asia, etc. that can't afford an official copy of XP and so warez it.

How widely will IE7 be installed? I think a relatively large percentage of the Windows userbase will be unable to install it because of the WGA stuff. You might end up with a long term 50/50 split between IE6 and IE7.

PNG gamma handling is still wrong

[Glenn R-P]

In http://pmt.sourceforge.net/gamma_test/ [sourceforge.net]
on a normal PC, the GIF, JPEG, sRGB patches and the unlabeled patches
should match gamma=1/2.2 but they match gamma=1/1.96 instead.
This foils attempts to match images with backgrounds and images in other formats.

The workaround is to remove the gAMA chunk from PNG files while preserving
the sRGB chunk.

I prefer to think of it as...

[patio11]

"Yay, finally half of my incoming support calls will vanish without me needing to make a housecall to install Firefox first."

Headline 3-4 years from now...

[suggsjc]

I completely agree that not having *all* of the CSS support is a bummer. However, it is a minor piece of the puzzle in the grand scheme of things. You can't count on all of your users having an updated browser. You (in general) have to code to the lowest common denominator. Sites are just now starting to drop support NN4, but IE5 is still a big player. So...this is actually a headline for about 3-4 years in the future when people are considering having to accomodate IE7 and its shortcomings, and consequentially considering dropping support. Today, I still sit in backwards compatibility hell...tomorrow doesn't look good either.

Re:Be glad

[suggsjc]

Web dev is an understatment. When I release this beauty upon the tubes, well not sure what is going to happen, but hopefully it will be good.

Actually I'm designing a site from the ground up. Trying to do everything* right. Semantic markup, accesibility, proper source ordering, user customizable/specifiable everything...AND trying to accomodate most all browsers or degrade nicely. Its currently just me, but I've got a few other people that are about to come in and start working on it as well.

I'm doing this on the side, so no I wouldn't be out of a job, just gain a lot of spare time. Actually even if I could guarantee that all of my users would use the same 100% standards compliant browser I'd still have to make some of the same decisions...layouts, color schemes, etc. not to mention just implementing features...

I've mainly been focusing on making sure my markup is *perfect*. CSS can't do everything, but the nice thing is that if done correctly, you can turn CSS off and still be able to use the site. Same goes for javascript. My first version will require no javascript and all future core features will be able to run without it as well. AJAX and all this "Web2.0" hype is going to take a backseat to functionality, they'll be added as needed in future releases. I also like to test the experience from using a PDA. What's nice about this approach is that my "full" version and "mobile" version are the exact same codebase.

To top it all off, it has been developed entirely using...drumroll...vi(m).

Every "web dev" should do what I am doing at least once, so they can understand how sites work and not use their WYSIWYG "tools" as crutches and actually understand (x)HTML, CSS, and javascript. Dreamweaver is killing the web!

Re:

[bunratty]

The results (Mem Usage/Peak Mem Usage/VM Size):
IE 7: 153/162/130
Fx 2: 96/113/85
It looks like browser users who don't like memory leaks should start complaining about IE 7. Actually, IE 7 didn't even finish the test; the Flash plug-in crashed before it was done. Otherwise, memory use probably would have climbed even higher.

Re:

[da_foz]

It is important news because we are the people who will have to help family and friends after they upgrade if things go wrong. Now at least we know that if mom calls tomorrow what it will be about...

Re:What happened?

[hdparm]

I wonder what is it that she knows about Windows? Does she double-click icons in some other way? Or is it that she can't switch because she is a devoted gamer?

Re:What happened?

[sumdumass]

No, no no.. It is that grandma doesn't do much of anything but cause problems with her windows allowing me to come over and fix it. I look like a genuis and I am pretty much guarenteed a place in her will.

Fist, I try the trained monkey thing were I just click things and see what happens. If that doesn't work, I try looking for help on the interweb, If that doesn't work I'll post something on a message board or maybe microsoft's help and support mailing list, If still nothing after a day or so, I just reload everything and talk about how tuff it was. I might even throw out some scarry words like virus, spyware and malware. Generaly it isn't any of them but grandma has heard just enough of it on the eveniing news to know it is something to be reconed with.

Now everything works and I'm the hero! You see, If i install linux, I would likley loose the chance of being the hero, possible the spot in her will, and if something actualy did mess up, I would have to call someone who actualy knows something to fix it. So windows is good, linux is bad.

Re:What happened?

[eebra82]

How come this is on Slashdot before news about Flash Player 9 for Linux?

Let's see now.. It's the world's most widely used internet browser. It's probably the most commonly used application in the world. It marks the date when Microsoft finally started to worry about Firefox. It is a huge improvement over IE6. Yeah, I guess that makes this news more important, despite the fact that Slashdot is more Linux oriented.

Last but not least, your complaint is ignorant because not only is there no such thing as a race for news, but a lot of people might find the IE vs FF wars more interesting, too. You know, almost 90 percent of the world's users browse with IE, so there's a pretty good chance that at least a few Slashdot users will enjoy this story.

Re:

[trifish]

> It marks the date when Microsoft finally started to worry about Firefox.

I keep reading that, but there is no evidence for that. There is more simple explanation, why IE7 is released in 2006, and it is supported by evidence. MS has released a major new version of IE with each new major version of Windows. Vista + IE7. Simple.

Re:What happened?

[electronerdz]

What worries me about the Flash player update are the people who are downloading it:

THANK YOU A BILLION TIMES!!! OMG THIS IS SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO GREAT. FINALLY AN ALSA-FLASHPLAYER!!
still cant believe it =)
niiiiiiiiiiiice nicenicenicenicenicennice.!!

*kisses*

OMG!!! PONIES!!!

Re:What happened?

[njchick]

There are many web developers here. IE7 will affect them much more than Flash for Linux.

Re:What happened?

[MillionthMonkey]

Oddly enough it won't. It will only affect web developers who code to non-standards. Most of us code to a set of standards so that all our code can work well in ALL browsers not just IE. Those who focus on IE only and use IE specific tags and ActiveX usually put themselves out of a job by neglecting a large percentage of the market

You've obviously never coded a page that had to display correctly on IE.

Re:

[Ucklak]

I've stayed with the `!important` in CSS and used that javascript hack to display transparent PNG. Other than that, I should be fine.

Re:What happened?

[babbling]

Flash 9 for Linux is newsworthy, too, but this is a new version of the best Firefox download tool available on Windows!

Re:What happened?

[Sancho]

I may be paranoid, but on a new install of Windows, I usually use FTP to get Moz builds. Just in case I mistype the name or something and hit a site with malware.

Nobody needs IE to get Firefox on Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

C:\funpath>ftp ftp.mozilla.org
Connected to manna.mozilla.org.
220 (vsFTPd 2.0.1)
User (manna.mozilla.org:(none)): anonymous
331 Please specify the password.
Password: [anonymous@]
230 Login successful.
ftp> cd /pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/latest/win32/[I N SERT LOCALIZATION HERE, SLASHBOT]
250 Directory successfully changed.
ftp> ls
[IMAGINE LIST OF MOST RECENT VERSION HERE, SLASHBOT]
ftp> get "[FULL NAME OF FILE SLASHBOT IS TRYING TO GET]"
200 PORT command successful. Consider using PASV.
150 Opening B

Re:What happened?

[Kelson]

Hmm... Number of people worldwide who use Internet Explorer vs. number of people worldwide who (a) use Linux, (b) want to have Flash animations in their browser, and (c) are OK with installing the proprietary Flash player.

I'd say based on numbers alone, the new IE release qualifies as "stuff that matters."

(P.S. Thanks for the link -- that's great news!)

Re:What happened?

[MikeFM]

Dude, Flash is one of the few things that sucks worse than IE. On any OS it's buggy, poorly designed, and frequently misused. When Flash is cleaned up and opened up enough to be fully intergrated into IE, Firefox, Opera, and Safari in the least then it might be worth caring about. The general concept of plug-ins has proven to lead to a sucky web browsing experience even if the average user isn't aware that it's these crappy plug-ins making their browser crash, run slow, give confussing plug-in required messages, and sites that are poorly indexed by search engines, have strange hard to use interfaces, and difficult to use for people with accessibility needs.

Just say no to plug-ins for things like Flash. They can be useful at times but in the vast majority of uses they are only used because programmers are to lazy, stupid, or harried by lazy stupid bosses to use more compatible solutions that do the exact same things.

IE7 isn't that big of news to us geeks but it is a huge relief to us as it goes mainstream - it isn't as good as Firefox, Safari, or Opera but it is worlds better than IE6 and will make it much easier to develop nice websites without having to disable everything cool because it doesn't work in IE. Of course it'll be a few years before the majority of users have updated but at least the process has begun.

If only Microsoft wasn't so lame as to make it difficult for developers to run IE6 and IE7 side by side.

Re:What happened?

[jez9999]

Dude, Flash is one of the few things that sucks worse than IE. On any OS it's buggy, poorly designed, and frequently misused.

I don't think I agree with that analysis. With the arrival of things like YouTube and Google Video, it's starting to be used properly and implemented well. These companies get large numbers of people using their services mainly because they can pretty much assume Flash 7 is installed on the vast majority of browsers and they know they have it available. Would streaming video over the net be anywhere near as popular if they required an MPG-compatible embedded media player? I rather doubt it; we had those before, and they never got as popular.

Re:

[abandonment]

'previous systems were tweaked to work on IE better'

this is exactly where most of the problems are going to arise - custom applications / systems that rely on IE quirks that should never have been there in the first place.

from what i've heard, this new IE is going to break most of these custom IE applications - consultants, prepare your RFP's!

Microsoft updates == consultants dream, everyone else's nightmare

Re:

[tonyr1988]

Nope, I did. Immediately denied. Why else would I be whining about it?

Actually

[the-amazing-blob]

Actually, there will be quite a few people downloading it. I upgraded to IE7 beta to test out my pages on that. Now I'll upgrade to the final. Sadly, you still can't ignore IE.

Re:Actually

[arth1]

Sadly, you still can't ignore IE.

Watch me.

Re:Actually

[bcat24]

Sadly, you still can't ignore IE.

That's not necessarily sad. As a hobbist/freelance web developer, I love that Microsoft is finally starting to get their act together. A more secure, more standards-compliant, less buggy IE is a Good Thing for almost everybody. It might not be perfect -- I was hoping for CSS display: table support -- but it's a nice place to begin.

Re:Actually

[Overly Critical Guy]

Frankly, IE7 is a disaster in terms of a sane interface. It's bizarre--toolbar buttons on the same row with the tabs, giving you less space. A weird mini-tab always visible. Stop and refresh over on the right side of the address bar. The weird button+drop-down menu motif of the toolbar.

It's 2006, and Microsoft STILL hasn't learned how to simplify its interfaces? On the contrary, they're complicating them even further.

Re:Ah yes.....

[wkitchen]

The massive stampede to go out and download this truly amazing piece of software.

chirp...

chirp...

Re:Difficulties with install...

[Shados]

It matters for web developers. A LOT. The faster IE6 can be ignored (it won't for years for mass scale sites, but for smaller stuff, web applications, etc it will be able to soon, relatively speaking), the least likely web developers will be to go totally bonker. I do feel for the ones that DO have to support everything from Netscape 4 and up though, it will be a nightmare to support in paralelle with IE6.

Re:

[Kelson]

Yep. Now we just have to see how quickly IE7 and the rest supplant IE6.

Personally, I'm hoping that anyone who can't install IE7 will instead try out Firefox or Opera. And anyone who can install IE7 will do so quickly, or switch quickly.

Unfortunately there are plenty of people who can't install *anything* because IT locks the machine down, and plenty of people who won't install anything because they're afraid they'll break something.

Still, the sooner IE6 disappears, the easier things will be.

Re:

[toddestan]

Still, the sooner IE6 disappears, the easier things will be.

I don't see IE6 going anywhere anytime soon. IE6 is the end of the line for Windows 98, ME, 2000 and XP pre-sp2. A lot of people are running those operating systems and aren't going to be changing anytime soon. Heck, even IE5 still seems to be clinging onto 3-5% of the market, despite the fact that it's over 5 years old.

Re:I can hear...

[Kelson]

Microsoft have only from my reckoning only implemented 58% of the CSS 2.0 framework, compared to figures in the 90's for other browsers (I have no direct source for these figures this info- so may be wrong)

You're probably thinking of this table [webdevout.net].

Re:WGA

[Kelson]

The only reason I want to upgrade is security patches - god knows till when IE6.0 will be supported.

Fortunately, he's not the only one [msdn.com]. IE6 comes standard with Win2k SP, WinXP SP2, and Win2k3 server, so it'll be supported (on those platforms) as long as they are. That means if you're using Windows 2000 SP4, IE6 will be supported until 2010. For WinXP SP2, you'll have to look up the date.

Re:

[aussie_a]

Sounds pretty cool to me :) I hope Slashdot doesn't fix it.

Re:now, how do I run this

[Cave_Monster]

Apparently this is no longer the case (though I havent tried it to confirm) and you can actually run it under wine (with a little bit of work).... http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/news/28 [tatanka.com.br]

Re:

[Polyhymnia999]

Agreed. Not much manouverability on the toolbars. The Favourites button, which when clicked opens up your faves as a nested scrollbar, ADDS two more clicks for each Fave. The icons look strangely like they were designer by Amine artists. But the tabbed browsing is okay, and the onboard Google is good, even though I've kept my G-bar for the extra options. Hm. Back to Firefox we go.

Re:

[robbak]

Microsoft uses atdmt webbugs to keep track of the number and location of downloads. atdmt will simply redirect you.

Ah. Courtesy of elinks, on the server, which bypassess the rubbish-zapping proxy:

http://download.microsoft.com/download/3/8/8/38889 DC1-848C-4BF2-8335-86C573AD86D9/IE7-WindowsXP-x86- enu.exe [microsoft.com]

Download to your heart's content, knowing that you won't affect Microsoft's browser count one bit!