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GNOME 2.16 Released

Posted by samzenpus on Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:48 PM
from the upgrade dept.
Kethinov writes "The GNOME Project has just released version 2.16 of their popular *nix desktop environment. Among many snazzy new features, is lots of new eye candy, including an experimental compositer in Metacity, feature enhancements, usability improvements, and much, much more. Ars Technica has a review."
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  • Awful default "X" icon (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Andrew Tanenbaum (896883) on Wednesday September 06 2006, @10:52PM (#16057188)
    I really hope that they got rid of the awful, childish default "X" (for cancel buttons) icon. It just screamed "zonk".
  • Sourceforge? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 06 2006, @10:53PM (#16057190)
    Ugh, who wants to use a desktop environment that has a stinky foot as its logo/mascot?
    • Re:Sourceforge? (ugh) by darkonc (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2006, @12:54AM
    • Re:Sourceforge? by ajs318 (Score:3) Thursday September 07 2006, @04:24AM
    • by mwvdlee (775178) on Thursday September 07 2006, @07:46AM (#16058486)
      (http://www.vanderlee.com/)
      Tomboy, Notes application
      Alacarte, Menu Editor
      Baobab, Disk usage analyzer
      Totem, Video player

      WTF???

      Why not call the Notes application "Gnome Notes", the menu editor "Gnome Menu Editor", the Disk usage analyzer "Gnome Disk Usage Analyzer" and the video player, you've guessed it, "Gnome Video Player".
      I know developers like to give their applications noteworthy and unique names, but to a user this is only confusing and unnecessary. Especially considering all these are part of Gnome and will most likely not be used outside the Gnome environment.
      [ Parent ]
      • It's not quite that bad. When accessing these programs from the menu they *do* have the simple names you were hoping for.

        Totem is 'Movie Player'
        Baobab is 'Disk Usage Analyzer'
        Alacarte seems to be 'Menu Layout', although Ubuntu might have changed something here.
        Tomboy is unfortunately 'Tomboy notes'

        So overall they've managed to use fairly clear and simple names for these programs, much as you were hoping for.
        [ Parent ]
      • by g2devi (898503) on Thursday September 07 2006, @08:51AM (#16058838)
        It's absolutely necessary.

        Think about it. If you run GNOME on a distro that uses the default GNOME applications, you'll see this on your menu item:

        Epiphany Web Browser

        but if you run Ubuntu, you'll see:

        Firefox Web Browser

        These are *different* apps with different features and limitations so they should not be given the same name (i.e. GNOME Web Browser) even if the naming convention is consistent within a distribution. By force-fitting the branding, you're eliminating the possibility that GNOME can change its mind about web browsers and you're making it difficult to support GNOME. And it confuses novices who buy "GNOME for dummies" books and expect one thing to work and has a different result because they're getting another app.

        Let's extend this a bit further. Suppose I want to run Firefox, Epiphany, Opera, and Konqueror. My menu would look like:

        Epiphany Web Browser
        Firefox Web Browser
        Opera Web Browser
        Konqueror Web Browser

        All these options are available and even a new user on my machine that only knew one of these browsers would see that they are all web browsers.

        What's wrong with unique names anyway? Is Excel any more descriptive than iLife or OpenOffice? None make sense, but all are well known. People like unique names since they're easy to remember. And for people who don't know what these apps mean, the old "OpenOffice Word Processor"/"OpenOffice Spreadsheet"/... menu items should give them all the information they need to know.

        [ Parent ]
      • Re:Here's another problem with Gnome branding by Coryoth (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2006, @10:09AM
      • Re:Here's another problem with Gnome branding by escay (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2006, @10:14AM
      • An Even Better idea! by Mateo_LeFou (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2006, @12:13PM
      • Re:Here's another problem with Gnome branding by alveraan (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2006, @12:14PM
      • Re:Here's another problem with Gnome branding by butterwise (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2006, @03:32PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Sourceforge? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 06 2006, @11:01PM (#16057222)
      I think you mean "The same poeple who are apt-get to run linux"
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Sourceforge? (Score:5, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 07 2006, @12:06AM (#16057464)
        I sense a bad joke about to emerge...
        [ Parent ]
        • Re:Sourceforge? by LarsWestergren (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2006, @05:24AM
          • Re:Sourceforge? by fimbulvetr (Score:3) Thursday September 07 2006, @06:41AM
            • Re:Sourceforge? by kimvette (Score:2) Friday September 08 2006, @10:51AM
            • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Sourceforge? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2006, @09:53AM
        • Re:Sourceforge? by MrTranscendence (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2006, @10:19AM
          • Re:Sourceforge? by MrTranscendence (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2006, @11:18AM
            • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Sourceforge? by Eideewt (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2006, @12:30AM
    • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • So what? (Score:2)

    by RLiegh (247921) * on Wednesday September 06 2006, @10:54PM (#16057200)
    (http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Sunday July 29, @04:31PM)
    As someone who is currently running 2.14.2; what does this mean to me?
  • candy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 06 2006, @10:56PM (#16057203)
    Bring on the eye candy! There'll be heaps of complainers who say its unnecessary... but sorry, its necessary to bring linux gradually mainstream.
    • Re:candy (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Jake73 (306340) on Thursday September 07 2006, @12:09AM (#16057471)
      (http://www.opalkelly.com/)
      I basically agree with this, but think the developers should find some real designer talent to bring it about. For example, the screenshots are horrible. They took window shots, then faded the borders to white, then added a drop shadow. If you can't tell that this doesn't look right, you're in the wrong league.

      Don't fade borders if you're compositing a complete window. Faded borders are the graphical equivalent of an ellipsis.

      And definitely don't add a drop shadow to something you've already faded to white. It looks ridiculous.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:candy by PeelBoy (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2006, @12:48AM
      • Re:candy by Gleng (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2006, @05:05AM
      • Re:candy by idonthack (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2006, @06:26AM
      • Re:candy by Mr Z (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2006, @07:38AM
      • Re:candy (Score:4, Interesting)

        by hey! (33014) on Thursday September 07 2006, @07:49AM (#16058496)
        (http://kamthaka.blogspot.com/ | Last Journal: Wednesday March 30 2005, @03:18PM)
        I stared at the first several screenshots trying to figure out what you were talking about, then I ran into the ones you mention. It made me wonder: why were some screenshots given this treatment, and others not?

        I think one visual design principle is this: if visual differences carry information, then pointless visual differences convey spurious information.

        The screenshots in question also seem to me to be a bit of a mixed metaphor. The drop shadow makes the things stand out from the page. This, I think, is an OK idea; it's not so much that the drop shadows tend to draw the eye to the screenshots (which they do), but it also conveys the messaage that these are concrete examples we are discussing; that is to say if we're looking at a screenshot of a graph, it's the window we are paying attention to, not the graph inside. By contrast, if there a graph that showed something like the lines of code in Gnome vs. time, you wouldn't expect it to get the drop shadow treatment.

        The mixed metaphor comes in this way: by fading the borders, the windows become less solid, yet they are still casting a shadow. The shadow appears to be cast by a sharp edge from a diffuse light source, but there is no sharp edge.

        What does it mean? It means nothing. Therefore it's poor communication because, unlike the drop shadows, it detracts from what is being said.
        [ Parent ]
        • Re:candy by timothy (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2006, @10:10AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:candy by anagama (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2006, @12:11AM
    • Re:candy by grcumb (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2006, @12:44AM
    • Re:candy (Score:5, Insightful)

      by 'Tractor' Barry (788340) on Thursday September 07 2006, @03:05AM (#16057897)
      (http://www.jollyboyscc.org.uk/)
      The big trouble with focusing on eye candy is that GNOME has still got so much to do in terms of usability.

      For instance the support for consistent cut & paste, consistent support for keyboard shortcuts and a focus on providing functionality akin to the spirit of *NIXs "everything is a file" metaphor.

      For instance "all text should be accessible". In other words whereever I can see some text in GNOME I should be able to copy & paste that text (using the standard selection methods and Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V, Ctrl-Ins, Shift-Ins, menu items etc. etc.) This functionality should be available no matter whether the text is being displayed using a widget such as a list, button, status bar or text area etc. etc. Any application that displays a list should also allow me to save that list as a plain text file seperated by something like commas (anyone for CSV ?)

      And this functionality should be provided in the widget set itself so that simply by adding a widget to a GNOME application the features get built in without the developer having to realise why they're required or, if they've got any sense, eventually getting round to adding them after complaints from irate users.

      Any application that displays a list of files should allow me to double click on a file (or press "carriage return" or enter) and launch the default application associated with that file. Any application whatsoever. If I can't do this why is it showing me the file list anyway ? In exactly rhe same way I should always be able to select file(s) from that list and use copy & paste etc. Going back to my previous point I shuld also be able to save that file list in CSV format.

      Wherever there's a right mouse button menu this should also be available by pressing the right mouse button on the keyboard. Maybe a MAC keyboard doesn't have a "right mouse button" (don't kno never used n one ;) ? So what. They miss out, the rest of the world that does have one (i.e. the vast majority of us) gets to use it in the manner it was designed.

      On another note then for gods sake stop messing around with the right click menus. Using Nautilus you can select "paste" from the "edit" menu. But you can't right click in the file area and select "edit" > "paste" as doing so selects the nearest file to the cursor and removes ("greys out") the paste option.

      Personalised, "intelligent" menus are simply crap. Look at Microsoft Office or XP hiding things away etc. If there's data on the clipboard that can be processed by the application then paste should be available. Hiding the option is simply dumb. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

      Personally I use GNOME because I use Ubuntu but I find it so bloody hard to do anything productive due to it missing so many simple, easy to implement, features that it usually send me swearing back to Windows to get things done. I'm so fed up with Nautilus that I now share my home folder on the network and do all my file management from Windows Explorer.

      So enough with the eye candy already. Get the cake properly baked before you start adding fancy icing.

      [ Parent ]
      • Re:candy by killjoe (Score:3) Thursday September 07 2006, @04:46AM
      • Re:candy by Fred_A (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2006, @04:56AM
      • Re:candy by fireboy1919 (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2006, @06:32AM
      • Re:candy by The_Noid (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2006, @07:05AM
        • Re:candy by tehcyder (Score:1) Friday September 08 2006, @06:39AM
      • Re:candy by 14CharUsername (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2006, @07:50AM
      • Re:candy by oohshiny (Score:3) Thursday September 07 2006, @07:51AM
      • Re:candy by lahvak (Score:3) Thursday September 07 2006, @08:01AM
      • Re:candy by be-fan (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2006, @09:20AM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:candy by walshy007 (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2006, @10:24AM
      • Re:candy by spitzak (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2006, @04:11PM
        • Re:candy by juhaz (Score:2) Friday September 08 2006, @04:21PM
          • Re:candy by spitzak (Score:2) Friday September 08 2006, @06:40PM
            • Re:candy by juhaz (Score:2) Friday September 08 2006, @07:27PM
              • Re:candy by spitzak (Score:2) Saturday September 09 2006, @09:45PM
      • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:candy by DrXym (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2006, @04:30AM
    • Re:candy by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2006, @05:18AM
      • Re:candy by Xabraxas (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2006, @10:06AM
        • Re:candy by Dog-Cow (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2006, @01:58PM
    • Re:candy by camg188 (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2006, @11:41AM
    • Re:candy by cowens (Score:2) Wednesday September 20 2006, @03:44PM
    • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • Almost sounds like KDE 3... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 06 2006, @11:01PM (#16057224)
    I know I'm going to get modded Troll for this, but looking over the feature list, it really sounds like it's gained a lot of KDE 3 features. The GNOME webbrowser can now spellcheck. (Big deal, Konqueror has done this for ages.) There's now a method for visually displaying disk use in GNOME. (Again, Konqueror has done this for ages.)

    You can now add items to the programs menu (this is NEW?!), you can now set file permissions on multiple files (again, this is NEW?!). All in all it sounds like stuff that should have been there for ages.

    And, as always, I can't help but wonder what options got removed and now are permentantly set to "sensible defaults" because, as everyone knows, customizability is "confusing". Really an underwhelming release based on the articles. (Yes, I did read them!)
  • GNOME logo (Score:3, Funny)

    by youknowmewell (754551) on Wednesday September 06 2006, @11:04PM (#16057241)
    Nice logo :)
  • Does it work on Windows 95? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 06 2006, @11:07PM (#16057251)
    This all sounds very exciting!

    I use Windows 95 and I'm finding it quite difficult to use. Can somebody please instruct me on how to install this GNOME on Windows 95?
  • Visual Improvements? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 06 2006, @11:11PM (#16057271)
    I don't know, maybe it's because I'm a visual person, but those screenshots look kinda unimaginative and dull. I realize eye-candy wouldn't make it a better desktop, but it really looks a decade old and gray. But then, I don't use Gnome, so...
  • by j1m+5n0w (749199) on Wednesday September 06 2006, @11:15PM (#16057284)
    (http://syn.cs.pdx.edu/~jsnow | Last Journal: Sunday July 11 2004, @08:36PM)
    I use gnome regularly, but am always momentarily confused by the file-save dialogue no matter how many times I see it. Gnome is very nice in a lot of ways, but I think in terms of decent interface design, it needs a lot of work.
  • by kcbrown (7426) <slashdot@sysexperts.com> on Wednesday September 06 2006, @11:24PM (#16057316)

    ...at least in the first couple of screenshots in the "feature enhancements" section.

    That's probably because of regressions or other bugs in the Freetype library. See, for instance, Debian bug #367593 [debian.org].

    I've reverted back to 2.1.10-1 on my system for now, in order to avoid those issues. I can only hope that the API doesn't change before they fix the rendering issues...

  • Damnit! (Score:5, Funny)

    by suso (153703) * on Wednesday September 06 2006, @11:25PM (#16057319)
    (http://suso.suso.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday March 09 2004, @12:03AM)
    Just emerging 2.14 now.
    • Re:Damnit! by CelestialWizard (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2006, @11:52PM
      • Re:Damnit! by bunbuntheminilop (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2006, @12:22AM
        • Re:Damnit! by lyz (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2006, @08:12AM
    • Re:Damnit! by zanderredux (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2006, @06:58AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Not bad, except (Score:3, Interesting)

    I really wish they wouldn't use JPEGs for computer screenshots -- the lossy compression makes straight lines and text look terrible. PNG (or possibly GIF, depending on the number of colors used) is much more reasonable.

    Other than that, I don't understand why the --enable-compositor compile-time option isn't included by default. Logically, if the support is there, but the hardware isn't up-to-par or the X composite extention is not loaded, then the compositor just won't do anything. If everything is A-OK, then the compositor works as expected. For example, I compile support for my sound card directly into my kernel. One day, if I suddenly remove the sound card, my kernel will still work. So why not just turn stuff on by default?

    On the other hand, I can understand why some things aren't compiled in sometimes, due to size, but a compositor can't be more than, what, 100k of actual code? Anyway, I'm sure someone's gonna fire back at me.

  • The important part: Mono (Score:5, Informative)

    by kestasjk (933987) on Wednesday September 06 2006, @11:30PM (#16057347)
    (http://kestas.kuliukas.com/)
    This release is very important because Mono is now a dependency! This single move pretty much moves Mono from an interesting project into mainstream OSS.

    As a C# fan, and knowing how much of a pain GTK was in C, I think this is a very good move. KDE has always had a better API, official Mono support with GTK reverses that! This could really clear up GNOME, and the Linux desktop generally.
  • God help Nautilus (Score:2, Insightful)

    by postmortem (906676) on Thursday September 07 2006, @12:01AM (#16057446)
    (Last Journal: Sunday March 18 2007, @04:53PM)
    Looks as bad as ever. Is there a single 'power' user that likes Nautilus?

    It is not customizeable -can't change single thing on the toolbar.

    Default view is useful for home directory only.

    Location bar (can be changed) is annoying with buttons instead of link.
  • Technically great (Score:3, Interesting)

    by NMerriam (15122) <NMerriam@artboy.org> on Thursday September 07 2006, @12:08AM (#16057469)
    (http://www.artboy.org/)
    I remember years ago when Gnome was the eye-candy window manager all the kids were showing off. In looking through the screenshots, the most surprising thing is to see that nobody involved with the Tango [freedesktop.org] interface has ever seen what an actual shadow looks like.

    If you want to do flat shadows, cool, do them, they're easy and effective. If you want to do three-dimensional shadows, cool, they look even better but take a bit more work. But don't drop the same blurry ellipse at the bottom of every object and think that you're making a three-dimensional shadow, you just make everything look like it's standing on a blurry gray oval, and users really do recognize the less professional look, consciously or not.
    • Re:Technically great by caseih (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2006, @01:04AM
      • Re:Technically great (Score:5, Insightful)

        by NMerriam (15122) <NMerriam@artboy.org> on Thursday September 07 2006, @02:21AM (#16057807)
        (http://www.artboy.org/)
        Tango is not just an icon set, it's (theoretically) a whole set of guidelines for interface design, including icons.

        I wouldn't waste time critiquing an icon set, but if Gnome really is planning on following these guidelines and the Tango crew really intend for them to be comprehensive and used by all the major open source interface developers, it would be a good idea for their flagship example to be as professional as possible. The lousy shadows were literally the first thing I noticed when I opened the page.

        In any case, it's just an icon! It's not even 3D. At 128x128 it's not going to matter that much. I think you're just being pedantic.

        I'm sure the Tango folks will be thrilled to learn you really don't care about any of their work. They built a whole group, an extensive web site and extensive guidelines along with the hundreds of icons in the set, I should think they care about the work they're doing and want it to be more than just "good enough". If they want to produce results that are comparable to professional software, then they have to hold themselves to the same pedantic standard that professionals do. It's like building a house and not having the corners be square -- one of the subtle differences that separates most $100k homes from most $500k homes. The average person doesn't consciously notice all the little fit and finish details as they walk throught the house, but they do recognize that there is a difference in quality.

        Your professional help would be greatly appreciated if you feel inclined.

        These comments are my professional help, I charge for this stuff in real life. Shadows have shapes that relate to the shape of the object. A sphere, a file folder, and a box don't all produce the same shadow shape when illuminated. Shadows are darker at the center and where they meet the object, and then lose density and definition as they reach the outside edges. You can make a pretty good flat shadow by just shading two sides of an icon, but if you want to do a projected floor shadow then you have to represent the silhouette of the object as transformed through space.

        Doing a bad floor shadow is more work for worse results than doing a flat shadow. So my professional advice would be that if they are low on time, they should just do flat shadows, but if they want to spend the time, they should think more about how to achieve good projected shadows.
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:Technically great by IpalindromeI (Score:3) Thursday September 07 2006, @09:04AM
    • Re:Technically great by damaki (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2006, @04:03AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Technically great by spitzak (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2006, @04:24PM
    • Re:Technically great by thebluesgnr (Score:1) Friday September 08 2006, @12:02AM
  • by wysiwia (932559) on Thursday September 07 2006, @12:56AM (#16057608)
    (http://wyoguide.sf.net/)
    Usability improvements on the desktop are nice but when do people realize that usability improvements are desperately needed on the application level and only marginally on the desktop. What does it help if you have a perfect desktop but many of the applications one uses have a rather rubbish usability!

    Usability is always measured in a greater context, a context which goes far beyond the Gnome desktop but spans any desktop used. Just think how an American driver feels when he drives in England or vice versa. You might interrupt that's rather seldom the case but not with computer desktops. Almost each Gnome users uses a KDE application and even 60% use a Windows application (http://www.desktoplinux.com/cgi-bin/survey/survey .cgi?view=archive&id=0821200617613 [desktoplinux.com] at the bottom) and everybody knows the easyness of MacOSX.

    Sure application developers don't want to lose much time with usability they want to concentrate on functionality. So they can't follow multiple separate usability guidelines they simply don't have the time. Yet usability is a very important part in the acceptance of an application. To circumvent this, application developers should follow cross-desktop or cross-platform guidelines (http://wyoguide.sf.net/ [sf.net]).

    Yet Gnome might still follow the MacOSX way sticking to there own perfect way and be happy with a rather insignificant market share. Or they help working on fighting off the first "Top inhibitors of Linux desktop adoption" (http://www.osdl.org/dtl/DTL_Survey_Report_Nov2005 .pdf [osdl.org]).

    O. Wyss
  • Gnome! (Score:5, Funny)

    by SQLz (564901) on Thursday September 07 2006, @01:06AM (#16057629)
    (http://www.linuxplatform.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday December 16 2003, @04:31PM)
    Now with more KDE!
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • But does it feature... (Score:3, Funny)

    by MaineCoon (12585) on Thursday September 07 2006, @02:17AM (#16057799)
    (http://www.avpmud.com/)
    ... left-handed scrollbars?

    *ducks*
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Congratulations (Score:1)

    by lamikr (611861) on Thursday September 07 2006, @03:26AM (#16057932)
    This release in time schedule has really rocket in gnome.
  • New GNOME, even more easier! (Score:5, Funny)

    by 4D6963 (933028) on Thursday September 07 2006, @03:39AM (#16057951)
    (http://www.geocities...atepower_gangsta.htm)

    FTFA : "Menu editing just got even more easier."

    Woot! Sounds like a lot! I also heard it was even more betterly eye-candier!

  • by Colin Smith (2679) on Thursday September 07 2006, @04:41AM (#16058090)
    But how fast is it? How fast over a LAN, snappy or sluggish?

     
  • Yet STILL... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by DeathAndTaxes (752424) on Thursday September 07 2006, @06:28AM (#16058304)
    (http://www.delayofgame.com/)
    STILL we gnome faithful are saddled with having only one desktop picture for all workspaces. This became ridiculous at gnome 2.10, IMO. Gnome devs still say they are all for the spatial paradigm (which I like, btw), yet they miss the opportunity to use different desktop pics for each workspace, which would make each workspace...different (wait for it) spatially.

    (I still use gnome every day.) ;-)
  • Ubuntu (Score:4, Funny)

    by Stephen Chadfield (7971) on Thursday September 07 2006, @06:32AM (#16058315)
    (http://www.chadfield.com/)
    I hear Ubuntu researchers are hard at work trying find the most depressing shades of brown to use in the default themes for their Gnome 2.16 based release.
  • by temcat (873475) on Thursday September 07 2006, @07:17AM (#16058448)
    but Alacarte is horrible. I mean, the interface is okayish, but the app is slow as molasses! (I presume that's because it's written using PyGTK.) I've had about two second delay while typing on Celeron 2.6GHz with 512M of memory with no other apps open!
  • On a machine with 256 Mb RAM and GNOME loaded there is almost no free RAM left. Almost any application that you launch is going to use swap space. Amiga (whose Workbench would run OK on a 256 Kb machine) would turn in its grave! Seriously, I think that user interfaces we have on Linux are sucking more and more resources in the course of time and I still don't see a real breakthrough in usability. And if there is no difference in usability I prefer a user interface that runs faster and consumes less memory. I think it is more important than eyecandy. Maybe the developers of widgetsets/window managers/... should stop running for eyecandy and launch a profiler?
  • by Medievalist (16032) on Thursday September 07 2006, @08:18AM (#16058646)
    Gnome drags an absurd number of dependencies into the distributions I use. It seems like you can't load Gnome without also loading several development libraries, a panoply of sound and video support (for hardware you don't physically have and software you have no desire to use) and various other fooferaw [freebsd.org]. I realize some of this is because of inept packaging on the part of certain distributions, but even when you take that into account Gnome's still a dependency nightmare reminiscient of Windows "DLL hell".

    When the number of dependencies required to run Gnome on mainstream distributions DECREASES, that'll impress me. Until then I am unlikely to care what new eye-candy it's sporting.
  • Toggle (Score:2)

    by Quill_28 (553921) on Thursday September 07 2006, @09:37AM (#16059149)
    (Last Journal: Monday January 17 2005, @09:36AM)
    So are they going to put vertical and horizontal toggling back in?

    Or was it never gone?
  • by InsaneProcessor (869563) on Thursday September 07 2006, @09:50AM (#16059254)
    Just what I need. Another GUI based system that works differently than all other GUI base systems and creates more confusion for my users. This is one thing that M$ does do consistantly and right.
  • by spevack (210449) * on Thursday September 07 2006, @09:56AM (#16059306)
    (http://spevack.org/)
    We've got gnome 2.16 in the latest nightly buildes (rawhide) of Fedora Core 6 [fedoraproject.org], and it will ship in the final FC6 bits when we release in October

  • This release does not really have many interesting user-visible features, but parts of Gnome are starting to utilize some of the new infrastructure like mono, compositing, cairo, etc. So I think we'll see some much more interesting visible features using that stuff in the next release or maybe the one after that.

    Reed
  • ... and Trolltech are currently previewing Java binding for Qt (with work going towards making them gcj compatible) would this mean that KDE would end up embrasing Java?

    Now that would be interesting...

  • From what I've gathered (and I admit I may be wrong here), Miguel de Icaza started the Gnome project because he had concerns about licensing with the KDE desktop's use of Qt's widgets. That's fine but what the bloody hell I do not understand is why he has now chosen to integrate the .NET API in to the GNOME desktop and thereby leading everyone in to a potential patent mine field..?!

    Little bit of hypocrisy there maybe..?

  • by MoogMan (442253) on Thursday September 07 2006, @12:25PM (#16060544)
    I hate and love Gnome in equal parts. For example - http://www.gnome.org/start/2.16/notes/C/rnusabilit y.html [gnome.org] - how the hell can the new permissions dialog be seen as an improvement. It's been made much worse, and I now take more clicks and thought to change permissions. This is plain wrong.

    To be fair though, this is probably an isolated case, but they do make at least one blatant cock up per release.
  • is nautilus (Score:2)

    by MemoryDragon (544441) on Thursday September 07 2006, @03:23PM (#16061853)
    still completely dumbed down unusable...
  • by kimvette (919543) on Thursday September 07 2006, @03:26PM (#16061870)
    (http://kim.biyn.com/)
    Disclaimer: I used to *heart* gnome and hate KDE. Now, I find Gnome to be more of a PITA than it is worth. I despise Gnome because they have dumbed it down more and more over the years, to the point where it's annoying. I'm surprised they haven't stated "we will now support only one-button mice"

    Does Nautilus still suck? (Windows Explorer sucks. Copying Explorer functionality leads to an Explorer clone that also sucks. Ergo, Nautilus sucks.) I *heart* konqueror because of the zillion extensions I can install, I can tab AND split views, change the view as desired, etc. - in other words, if you need simple, you don't have to worry about it, but if you need advanced functionality to get work done quickly (in other words, your IQ is higher than 70 and you dislike dumbed-down interfaces) you can simply load a different view profile and expose the functionality.

    File properties: "simplification" of permissions = hiding advanced permissions? Idiots. The KDE folks got it right a LONG time ago. A Simple view is presented initially, but, if you have half a clue and aren't totally frightened of more options, you can click "Advanced Permissions" and actually get to the advanced view. In their infinite(simal) wisdom, the Gnome folks have decided that everyone is a novice and NO one should have access to a view which is not dumbed down.

    File open dialog: Are we still stuck with one single view, along PAINFUL navigation? Can I still not view size and sort by size? No, because having configurable views can confuse some people, so exposing alternate views is made available to NO one. It's like liberal's "tolerance" - promote tolerance by bringing everyone to the LCD, rather than admitting that "tolerance" really just means being mature enough to agree to disagree. Same thing here - Gnome folks are "simplifying" the environment by removing functionality and providing no advanced views.

    And Metacity? It is the MacOS of the new millennium. You can have it any way you like, so long as it's dumbed-down, grey and not customizable. OK, you can skin it, but it'll still be dumbed-down and not very configurable.

    Of course, some Gnome fanboi will mod this post down anyway so I'll just summarize here: Gnome Sucks (that's sucks with a capital S). :-p
  • by jiawen (693693) on Thursday September 07 2006, @05:57PM (#16062872)
    (http://www.jiawen.net/)

    There are two reasons I still use Gnome (2.10 currently):

    • Themes are easy to handle. Installing a theme in KDE requires actual installation: ./configure, make, make install -- the whole mess. And it frequently doesn't work. In Gnome, it's true drag-and-drop.

      To then actually use a theme is also a pain in KDE. There are a million different places to change all the different things, and it's quite difficult to find what I actually want to change.

      It's also far, far easier to edit themes myself in Gnome. I just go into the file, find the appropriate image file and change it in GIMP or whatever. In KDE, this is again a huge pain. I don't want to have to recompile a theme in order to change the scroll bar colors!

    • Non-English fonts are handled far better in Gnome. I run Linux in Traditional Chinese, so this is quite important to me. No matter which font settings I try in KDE, some characters show up as little black circles. This means I can't even read all my menu selections. In Gnome, they all show up quite nicely.

      There may be a place to change these fonts in KDE, but I've never seen it, and so I'm stuck with poor Chinese handling. This problem also seems to spill over into the Mandriva menus, where some titles are completely illegible, but at least I don't have to deal with those all the time.

  • by Requiem18th (742389) on Friday September 08 2006, @01:45AM (#16064532)
    Please let discuss the features.

    I see some improovments and drawbacks, but not too much.

    Looking forward to:
    - Alt+3 shortcut for Deskbar (much needed)
    - Improved virtual desktop features (good enough already)
    - The new evolution
    - And totem.

    Dispointed by:
    - The new permissions change interface:
      This is GNOME using a BAAAD idea just to copycat apple. Although KDE had this layout since before OS X, i always prefered GNOME's permision grid, it was sooo much more intuitive *because* it provided all the information there and you could change it with a single click. Now it takes the whole screen to fit this huge dialog where the permissions are spread and is difficult to quickly guess (abd later change) what permission should the file have.

    - C# tainting core GNOME:
      Correct me if I'm wrong but, MS has yet to publicy declare that it will never use C# pattents to hurt free sofware. What's a compromised framework doing in the official GNOME distribution?

    With news of a MS guy getting into Mozilla, Mozilla guys gettion into MS offices, and C# getting into GNOME, the possibility that we are seeing an organized trojan operation is becoming more and more plausible.
  • Re:So? It still sucks. (Score:5, Funny)

    by dcapel (913969) on Wednesday September 06 2006, @11:26PM (#16057322)
    (http://wot.narg.googlepages.com/)
    You know, I once heard a wise man tell a parable:

    I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off.
    I immediately ran over and said, "Stop! Don't do it!"
    "Why shouldn't I?" he said.
    I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!"
    "Like what?"
    "Well ... are you religious or atheist?"
    "Religious."
    "Me too! Are you Christian or Jewish?"
    "Christian."
    "Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?"
    "Protestant."
    "Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"
    "Baptist."
    "Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?"
    "Baptist Church of God."
    "Me too! Are you Original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?"
    "Reformed Baptist Church of God."
    "Wow! Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1879, or Reformed
    Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915?"
    "Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915!"
    To which I said, "Die, heretic scum!" and pushed him off.

    Incidentally, I use KDE ;)
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:C# App (Score:3, Funny)

    by telchine (719345) on Wednesday September 06 2006, @11:27PM (#16057329)
    >Is it just me, or does the default binding and replacement of standard apps with C# apps a concern?

    Not at all. I think this is a good strategy for GNU. First they embrace c#, after that they should extend it and then extinguish it!
    [ Parent ]
    • Re:C# App (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Almahtar (991773) on Wednesday September 06 2006, @11:50PM (#16057405)
      I don't think it'd be wise to mess with it at all. If there's one thing Microsoft is good at it's treachery, not technology. Rather than attempting to beat them at their own game (treachery), it'd be best to overcome them with merit (technology). In terms of ease-of-use and speed, C++ with STL and BOOSt, Ruby, or Python have C# whipped -- and they're totally free.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:C# App by eurleif (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2006, @06:23AM
      • Re:C# App by Hast (Score:3) Thursday September 07 2006, @07:44AM
        • Re:C# App by thrillseeker (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2006, @09:26AM
          • Re:C# App by Hast (Score:2) Saturday September 09 2006, @05:00AM
        • Re:C# App by Almahtar (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2006, @10:37AM
          • Re:C# App by Hast (Score:2) Saturday September 09 2006, @05:24AM
            • Re:C# App by Almahtar (Score:2) Sunday September 10 2006, @02:20AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:So? It still sucks. (Score:3, Interesting)

    KDE has many things going well for it. This'll sound weird, I'm sure, but I like Gnome better because it feels better. KDE has a weird feel to it that I can't get over. It's the same feeling I get when I use Opera, I don't quite like it.

    KDE also seems very thrown-together, and there are icons for almost every single menu item in almost every single menu -- it makes the entire desktop look extremely cluttered. Some lines and shapes (in some dialogs, some programs) are off by just a single pixel from where they should be, but because of that small error, it makes the desktop look slightly askew, and adds to the screen clutter appearance.

    Other than appearance and "feel" I have no problem using KDE.

    [ Parent ]
  • reasons to use gnome (Score:2, Informative)

    by j1m+5n0w (749199) on Wednesday September 06 2006, @11:41PM (#16057378)
    (http://syn.cs.pdx.edu/~jsnow | Last Journal: Sunday July 11 2004, @08:36PM)

    I may be incorrect about either of these points, so someone please say so if I am wrong, but I can think of two reasons to prefer gnome over kde:

    1) gtk is written in C, whereas QT is C++, making it less easy to use from C programs.

    2) gtk is licensed as lgpl, whereas qt is gpl. This means that a non-gpled program (such as a commercial application) can be linked with gtk with no problems, but with qt the developers must pay licensing fees.

    [ Parent ]
  • by cool_arrow (881921) on Wednesday September 06 2006, @11:42PM (#16057382)
    While I prefer KDE it seems Gnome could be gaining ground as it has recently become the default desktop for SUSE 10.1. Many new users go with the defaults and people tend to stick with what they know.
    [ Parent ]
  • by timeOday (582209) on Wednesday September 06 2006, @11:54PM (#16057425)
    Some "designy" people think the simpler the better, but I'm with you... it's frustrating when expected functionality is lacking. I can't stand the more recent link target save as dialogs for firefox... they don't let you type in a path, and in one version you can't even specify a location! It just saves everything to ~/Desktop. But it changes so frequently, I don't know how long it was like that. (Or maybe it adapts to the Gnome / KDE environment?)
    [ Parent ]
  • by shellbeach (610559) on Thursday September 07 2006, @12:14AM (#16057486)
    So, in other words, Gnome put back what they idiotically took out in the first place - for the sake of "usability" naturally - and then have the balls to call this fix an "improvement."

    Well, to be fair, it's a GTK thing not a GNOME thing. (If it was only a GNOME problem we could have happily ignored it ...) But yes, that's pretty funny - I recall the bitter argument a few years ago about the removal of the path from the chooser, and more than that, the ability to use tab completion when navigating paths in the file chooser.

    It was a shockingly stupid omission in the first place - I'm glad it's back! Let's hope real tab completion is back too (but I bet it won't be - I mean, who uses tab completion in these heady GUI days?? *sarcastic grimace*)
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:5 Year Old 3D features... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Nadir (805) on Thursday September 07 2006, @01:12AM (#16057643)
    (http://slashdot.org/)
    No, we just have to wait for the AIGLX and DRI project to complete adding the required bits to the drivers. It's not GNOME's fault.
    [ Parent ]
    • Re:5 Year Old 3D features... (Score:4, Informative)

      by Stalyn (662) on Thursday September 07 2006, @04:34AM (#16058070)
      (http://slashdot.org/~Stalyn/journal | Last Journal: Wednesday September 28 2005, @08:10PM)
      That's not really true, considering the nvidia open source drivers do not even support 3d acceleration. The ati open source drivers are alot further along but only support older cards.

      If you have a newer card or a nvidia card, the only option is XGL/compiz which has the same effects (and more) than the new Metacity. If you still want to use Metacity you will have to wait until Nvidia/ATI releases their drivers with texture from pixmap [freedesktop.org] support which could be 6 months to a year from now. XGL has tfp already built into its server which allows one to use accelerated 3d effects even if their driver does not support it.

      Also I should note that one could use compiz with AIGLX (not sure if you can right out of the box or requires a patch).

      [ Parent ]
  • by Flame0001 (818040) <Flame0001@gmail.com> on Thursday September 07 2006, @01:16AM (#16057661)
    I read your post several times thinking it was a joke post...
    [ Parent ]
  • by TheNetAvenger (624455) on Thursday September 07 2006, @04:37AM (#16058079)
    What you are looking for is Vista. It will be so current as to have the next year's video accelerators as its requirement.


    Ya, if next year's cards are AGP 4x and have 64mb of RAM and support the 3 year old Pixel Shader 2.0, then sure, that is a next year video card, and we are only talking about the high end Glass.(sic)

    Or you can use your old 1Mb Video Card from 1995 and run Vista just like you would WindowsXP, themes and all...

    Either way, not really a 'requirement' nor something requiring next year's Video Cards.

    I will say though, when ATI and NVidia move to multi-processing concepts and cores, Vista will already be able to utilize this technology with the WDDM specifications. Just like it can already mutli-process 3D applications and even virtualize GPU RAM on the 3 year old cards.

    (BTW I think a lot of the 3D rendering concepts in development in the open source world are quite good, it is just strange the one GNOME is playing around with at this stage is a 'dated' concept to give 'wiggle' to windows.)
    [ Parent ]
  • by ajs318 (655362) <sd_resp2&earthshod,co,uk> on Thursday September 07 2006, @05:27AM (#16058183)
    You see? That's why open-vented lead-acid batteries are still the best battery technology bar none. They're damn nigh indestructible in normal use. A lead-acid battery will burn out a short-circuit with almost no noticeable voltage drop. Try to overcharge them, and they gas a bit ..... but no worries, you can just top them up with air conditioner runoff. In an emergency, if they're not holding a charge as well as they used to, you can actually physically scrape the shite off the plates with a knife. And what with containing so much lead, they're (1) hard to steal and (2) well worth recycling.
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:The menu (Score:2)

    by arose (644256) on Thursday September 07 2006, @05:36AM (#16058196)
    The menu opens fine on a 450MHz Celeron with 256MB of RAM.
    [ Parent ]
  • by Secrity (742221) on Thursday September 07 2006, @06:07AM (#16058250)
    Maybe you'll luck out and your batteries are included in the recall. I lucked out that way with the tires on my pickup - they were recalled just as they wore out.
    [ Parent ]
  • Thank you for your generous offer. Please ship them overnight express - this laptop isn't getting any younger.
    [ Parent ]
  • by Tony (765) on Thursday September 07 2006, @09:44AM (#16059199)
    (http://zoeshire.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday October 31 2002, @05:12PM)
    It would be helpful if the desktop authors simply wrote for KDE instead of having all this duplication of effort.

    Two things:

    C++ sucks in all ways imaginable. It is an abomination. Even Jesus hates it. I don't like being forced to write in C++ just to write a GUI-based app. Makes me angry. You wouldn't like to see me when I'm angry.

    Second: having more than one desktop is known as "competition." It's probably the most important thing about capitalism (and the one thing that is most often circumvented in capitalist economies). I believe it is a good thing. It is good for KDE, and it is good for GNOME, and it is good for Enlightenment, and all the other window managers / desktops.

    Plus, and even more importantly, KDE and GNOME take different approaches to things. That is *very* good, as it allows two different things to be tried, and compared against each other (SEE: competition). GNOME borrowing from KDE, and KDE from GNOME, is a good thing, as we all win.

    I don't like KDE that much. I fire it up every few months just to see if it is better than last time, and it usually is (the KDE folks are doing a great job), but I don't really care for the PlayMobile feel of it.

    That's a matter of taste, though. To each his own. I prefer GNOME. You may prefer KDE. Either is a good choice. It's a matter of taste.

    C++ sucking? That's a matter of fact. It sucks. Sucks, sucks, sucks.
    [ Parent ]
  • by MiKom (866143) on Thursday September 07 2006, @10:27AM (#16059558)
    (Last Journal: Sunday December 24 2006, @06:43PM)
    BSD is dead!
    [ Parent ]
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