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Bitcoin Sets Another Record as Bullish Bets Continue (nytimes.com) 206

Cryptocurrency backers continue to bid up Bitcoin prices, pushing the digital token to a new high of about $84,000 on Monday. The New York Times: The cryptocurrency has surged since Election Day, on investor hopes that President-elect Donald J. Trump and his appointees would be friendlier to the industry after the Biden administration's aggressive enforcement of securities law that targeted several crypto companies.

Cryptocurrencies have become a major component of the so-called Trump trade. Bitcoin exchange-traded funds, which got the regulatory green light to trade this year, have been booming over the past week. Crypto-related companies have also jumped in value: Riot Platforms, a Bitcoin miner, is up 68 percent since Election Day and Coinbase, a crypto exchange, is up 69 percent over the same period.

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Bitcoin Sets Another Record as Bullish Bets Continue

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  • by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 ) on Monday November 11, 2024 @12:07PM (#64936931)

    Funny, I read "bullshit" at first glance.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Funny, I read "bullshit" at first glance.

      Well, bullshit is what Bitcon is backed with, so it's a natural reaction.

  • If you needed proof (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    that crypto was driven by toxicity:

    The cryptocurrency has surged since Election Day, on investor hopes that President-elect Donald J. Trump and his appointees would be friendlier to the industry

  • ...and the addicts are on the high part of the curve before the inevitable crash

    • ...and the addicts are on the high part of the curve before the inevitable crash

      Yep, once again at the "Pump" part of the pump-and-dump cycle.

  • by awwshit ( 6214476 ) on Monday November 11, 2024 @12:37PM (#64937043)

    I think what we see with Crypto and what we've seen with meme stocks has a lot to do with income. More people are feeling like their best bet is to gamble, because the prospect of working hard and never getting anywhere is awful. It may seem like wages have increased but GDP has been growing faster than wages since the 70s.

    https://www.statista.com/chart... [statista.com]

    • Re:speculation (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Zarhan ( 415465 ) on Monday November 11, 2024 @12:52PM (#64937097)

      Well, sometimes it's very easy to gamble.

      I bought a German S&P500 ETF, leveraged, on 4th of November. It was pretty easy to guess that after US election - no matter who won - those would go up. USD would go up too, so since I'm investing in EUR I'd be bringing home even more. So far I'm up 15% over one week. I'm basically just having a sliding stop-loss order on that investment so that when it finally starts to drop, I'll just cash out.

      Bitcoin would have been another candidate, but if Trump won, it would rocket (as we have seen), but if Harris had won, it probably would have dropped. So going with traditional stocks was pretty much a "safe" gamble.

    • I think you mean "inflation". GDP is economic output. You absolutely expect it to grow faster than inflation. Even if your economy is completely stagnant it should at least be growing with population growth, but the goal isn't to be stagnant. It's to drive efficiencies, and since we had the introduction of things such as computers and advanced manufacturing since the 70s you should expect GDP to massively outgrow wages. Which is has.

      • > you should expect GDP to massively outgrow wages

        Why? Higher GDP is an indicator of profits too. Where would I expect the profits to go if not to wages? We are not experiencing an 'all boats rise' scenario.

        • His point was that there is more population thus wages are divided into a greater pool. In this regard he is right.

          On the other hand, prices should fall to the marginal cost of production. Technology increases productivity driving down the cost of production.
          That increased productivity is being robbed by monetary inflation, on top of the CPI price inflation avg of 2%.

          Prices should fall, which would benefit all society and protect your savings through time (in the future).

          • While monetary inflation is part of it, and could be addressed with Quantitative Tightening (plenty of room for that right now), it is our unfair tax system that robs most of us. Since Reagan we've given tax cuts to those at the top. Rather than creating a trickle-down effect it has created a trickle-up effect.

            Our new leader is going to start by extending tax cuts for the rich. Then he is going to implement tariffs on imported goods, which is an indirect tax on those that purchase imported goods (everyone).

            • It cant because the debt is too big.

              They must inflate the debt away or the whole economy will implode.
              Nothing stops the money printer.

              Taxes are a pitance incomparison to the debt. The interest payments, eventually will be larger than the tax receipts.
              What creates the trickly up effect is monetary inflation. Which causes currency debasement for anyone that does not hold assets.
              From real estate, to gold, securities, etc... even Bitcoin, all assets go up when there is monetary inflation. And anyone who already

  • And I'm glad I did. Cybersecurity is so bad because of Bitcoin that people are being killed by ransomware and kidnappings. And $80K isn't really that much if you think about it. American's buy pickup trucks worth more than that.
  • The fundamental that a con artist will soon move into the White House.

  • Of course the rules will be relaxed. We have a convicted felon taking office who was progeny to commit fraud. It's a match made in heaven.
  • The ever-growing list of contenders are:

    Cryptocurrency
    Real Estate
    Healthcare
    Student Loans
    Stock Market

    2008 was really bad, but the next one is going to be a serious doozy. And our national debt is getting to the point that we may have trouble printing ourselves out of our next mess.
    • In your list of bubbles, the FIAT monetary system should be on top, as you clearly detailed in your last sentence.

      All crypto coins are scams. Bitcoin is not.

      • Sorry but all crypto is also fiat, including bitcoin. Its not backed by anything.

        • You should look up the defintion of FIAT. It doesnt mean unbacked. It means "By decree".

          No one is dictating the value of Bitcoin and the end of a gun.

          Its protocol and properties are maintained by consensus on a decentralised network.
          The value is subjectively priced at the margin by the open free market.

          It derives its value from its monetary properties of being absolutely scarce, uncensorrable, permissionless, unhackable and fungible.

          • Just because its not at the end of a gun doesn't mean that bitcoin's value is not set by decree. A decree by consensus of a virtual network is still a decree. Decree by market makers is also a decree. The only way for it to not get value by decree is for it to be backed by something. Otherwise its always going to boil down to a group of people agreeing on a value, then by decree of the group, setting the price. Literally fiat money.

            • Free market consensus is not a government decree.
              There is absolutely no relation between the two.

              The consensus is on the protocol of the network, not the value of the asset.

              There is no decree by market makers. Value is always subjective and assets and securities are priced at the margin (what the last person is willing to pay for it).
              It reprices all previous units of the asset, if confirmed, by other buyers agreeing to pay the price.

              When something is backed by something else (like gold on a monetary gold st

              • Free market consensus is not a government decree.

                I didn't say it was. I said it was a decree, not a government decree.

                The consensus is on the protocol of the network, not the value of the asset.

                There is a consensus on the value of the asset that is orthogonal to the implementation details of the protocol.

                There is no decree by market makers.

                The price is discovered at the margin, and the decree from the market is that the margin price is the price.

                When something is backed by something else (like gold on a monetary gold standard), the price/value of the gold is also priced at the margin by an open free market.

                When something is backed by gold, you can redeem it for a physical asset. The value is linked to the utility value of a physical asset, in the real world. The way the price of the underlying asset is discovered is irrelev

                • I think our disagreement stems from the fact that you use the word decree in complete opposition to its actual definition.
                  Decree is not consensus.

                  Decree litteraly must come from an authority, be it a court, ruler, governement or religious organisation. (Look up the defintion from any source you wish or all of them).

                  Price discovery is not decree, as there is no authority behind that discovery and its in constant flow of change.
                  The market is not an authority.

                  I understand the long held belief that a physical a

                  • Decree litteraly must come from an authority, be it a court, ruler, governement or religious organisation.

                    Yes, like the group of people we would call "market participants".

                    as there is no authority behind that discovery

                    Ok, try and buy something at a price different than the one discovered by the market and report back how that worked out. Hate to break it to you, but the invisible hand is holding your leash.

                    I understand the long held belief that a physical asset is required or desired to back a monetary system. But it isnt.
                    We know that because the FIAT system functions, albeit poorly.

                    Your words, not mine. I never said any of this.

                    Money is simply a ledger.

                    Exactly. If the money is backed by something, its a ledger of commodity obligations. If its fiat, like bitcoin, its a ledger of nothing. Again, if all it took to not be fiat was for money to be a ledger, USD would not be fiat.

                    Decrees litteraly do not boil down to individuals making decision in a free and open market

                    You moved the goalposts again. I didn't say decrees were a market action. I said that decrees are done by individuals making decisions.

                    Again, please find a different word for what you are trying to convey, because it definitely is not "decree".

                    Sure.. if you find a different word to convey what you mean when you use "fiat".

                    Thanks for the book ideas. The bitcoin one from 2023 looks hilarious.

                    • Market participants do not decree anything, they make choices.
                      Choices are individual and do not dictate to others anything.

                      FIAT USD only exists because the government by decree says its what needs to be used to settle taxes. Then ensure this by use of force.

                      USD is a ledger, never said it wasnt, your not following very well. Its just a very poor ledger. And if there was no decree by an authority, NO ONE WOULD USE IT.

                      Im using FIAT properly. You are using decree to mean choices. You need to go back to school.

                      I

                    • They used to be an economist, but then they took an arrow to the knee.

  • Hmm... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Monday November 11, 2024 @01:53PM (#64937271)

    Donald J. Trump and his appointees would be friendlier to the industry after the Biden administration's aggressive enforcement of securities law that targeted several crypto companies.

    I'm not sure "friendlier because they might not enforce the law" is really the good thing you think it is -- oh... wait.

  • Without explanation, last month Tesla transferred 11,500 BTC to unidentified wallets. [yahoo.com] Elon Musk's wealth is largely tied up in Tesla stock, which is difficult for him to liquidate without affecting the trading price of the remaining shares. It would not surprise me if Musk exchanged Tesla stock for BTC in advance of the election so he could get a better exchange rate prior to the anticipated bump. The next bump that Musk is likely expecting is when Trump will formally announce a US Federal Bitcoin Reserve.
    • I have a feeling, and I might be wrong here, its really just speculation, that Tesla transfered their Bitcoin to another custodian.
      In this case I think it might be Howard Lutniks Cantor Fitzgerald.
      They are known friends, Lutnik is on Trumps transition team.

      He announced that Cantor Fitzgerald would become some sort of Bitcoin bank.
      Tesla might be one of their first customers and the 11500 BTC might serve as a reserve asset for BTC backed loans or something, generating yield for Tesla.

      I could be completely wro

      • Also, Elon has no need to "take profits" as he just borrows against his shares to fund his life and other ventures.
        The wealthy never sell their assets, they just borrow against them and let them increase in value forever.
        Borrowing like this, when using the right method, only requires paying down the interest, which can be paid using the borrowed funds.
        Principal never has to be paid.

        And any sums borrowed isnt a taxable event, so when you borrow 50 million dollars, there is no tax to pay, like when you "take

Murphy's Law, that brash proletarian restatement of Godel's Theorem. -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

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