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IBM AI

IBM CEO in Damage Control Mode After AI Job Loss Comments (itpro.com) 51

IBM CEO Arvind Krishna appears to be in a state of damage control following recent controversial comments on AI-related job losses. From a report: Speaking at an event in the US this week, Krishna said IBM has no intention of laying off tech staff, such as developers or programmers, and instead plans to ramp up hiring for roles in these areas. "I don't intend to get rid of a single one," he said. "I'll get more." Krishna added that the company aims to increase the number of software engineering and sales staff over the next four years to accommodate for its heightened focus on generative AI. Instead, the hammer will fall largely on staff working in back-office operations, aligning closely with what we've heard previously from the exec.

Earlier this year, IBM announced plans to cut nearly 8,000 staff working in positions spanning human resources in a bid to automate roles. The move means that anywhere up to 7,800 jobs at the tech giant's HR division could be cut, equivalent to around 30% of the overall workforce in the unit. IBM also said at the time that it would halt hiring for roles in the division on account of positions being automated.

Krishna has been among the most outspoken big tech executives on the topic of AI job losses in recent months. While industry figureheads have repeatedly shirked the topic, Krishna, to his credit, has been candid on the subject. In an interview with CNBC in August, Krishna suggested "we should all feel better" about the influx of generative AI tools, much to the ire of critics worried about its impact on the labor market. Krishna also told the broadcaster that organizations can deliver marked improvements to productivity through generative AI, but that will come at the expense of human roles.

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IBM CEO in Damage Control Mode After AI Job Loss Comments

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  • He's lying (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Monday October 09, 2023 @10:34AM (#63912033)
    and I should think it's painfully obvious he is.

    There's no such thing as "AI". What we're calling AI are LLMs. It's a new tech to be sure, but it's not self aware.

    That said, the buzz around AI automation has every CEO on the planet looking to automate and replace workers.

    Did you ever look at a process and think "gee, I wonder why we didn't automate that?".

    Well, every CEO is now doing that. 8000 jobs lost inside IBM to that process is probably a low ball number.

    Oh, and /. has a disproportionate number of older folks, and let's not mince words, we're the 1st on the chopping block. Especially in America where we drive up the cost of health insurance for everyone.
    • by Anonymous Coward

      /. has a disproportionate number of older folks, and let's not mince words, we're the 1st on the chopping block.

      Getting rid of older workers has been a key business strategy since at least the mid-1970s when I entered the job market. It's gotten worse since then.

      One big reason is that older workers demand more than younger workers: a history of pay raises, time off for family obligations, and they are set in their ways. Young workers are cheaper, easier to overwork, don't have families to take them away from work time, and are more compliant. The health insurance situation has changed since Obamacare, so not sure how

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • I've seen multiple jobs go to Canada over health insurance costs... The really high end stuff ($200k+) doesn't, but when you're laying off 8000 people via automation there aren't going to be that many $200k+ jobs in there.
          • More realistically they over hired during pandemics and now need an excuse to lay people off. If they got a serious AI project, then they need their people to deliver and iterate fast, not a time to be caught off guard, without competent people, and with a semi-broken automation.
      • It's not even that. It's more that we easily see through the CEO bullshit "visions" because we've seen them all before. The whole shit comes in cycles and we were already here when the last CEO had that spiffy new "vision" the current one has. And selling some bullshit to someone who already knows it's bullshit is a really, really hard sell.

        And worse, we inform the rest that the pipe dream is just that, so people keep working instead of wasting time on their "vision". And we can't have that!

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by geekmux ( 1040042 )

      That said, the buzz around AI automation has every CEO on the planet looking to automate and replace workers. Did you ever look at a process and think "gee, I wonder why we didn't automate that?".

      Perhaps we need to look at this problem a bit differently, since the question being posed might be more like "gee, I wonder how we can get someone else to pay for our automation?"

      Why has every CEO not looked at the billions pissed away by a failing automotive industry drunk on EV? The ramp-up costs of AI alone should have been enough to scare a lot of companies into taking a step back, and yet it seems we're...accelerating. And AI is hardly some environmental mandate.

      One main reason Greed acts that carele

    • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Monday October 09, 2023 @11:51AM (#63912259)

      We could try to automate the CEO position, that has some really heavy saving possibilities.

      Our main problem here is that we didn't find out yet what that guy is doing here in the first place.

    • Most companies I know or work with are so desperate for staff that much of the ageism is out the window. There is still a fundamental need for junior staff both as a long term strategy and to cover some of the more labor-intensive portions of work, but the only reason older staff (say 50-60) is leaving is because they want to.

      • by rayzat ( 733303 )
        I don't know what industry you're in, but I'm seeing near constant cuts in my part of tech. Our contracts with almost all of our suppliers dictates that we need to be informed if you're thinking about pending resource actions on teams that we work with. I have a dozen notices for potential cuts before the end of the year. Sometimes the notices just fizzle and there are no cuts, at least no cuts that impact us, but I'm pretty consistently seeing cuts.
        • Interesting. I know there were a lot of cuts panned earlier in the year, but now it seems to have shifted. My industry (architecture/engineering/construction) is generally out-of-phase (and amplitude) with tech, but our tech clients seem to have their capital plans in pretty stable condition. Nobody is building or renovating offices with us, but there is still plenty of work to go around and never enough people to do it.

    • AI automation creates new demand, it makes things possible, tempting things we want to have that were impossible before. Working on new projects means we need to hire people, AI is not that smart yet to work without any help. And since it is a gold rush, we need those people even more than before. Even back office roles, human-in-the-loop roles, etc they are essential to make AI actually work. I don't think we will see job loss, we will see every company ramping up quantity, quality, diversity or customisa
    • There's no such thing as "AI". What we're calling AI are LLMs. It's a new tech to be sure, but it's not self aware.

      The term "artificial intelligence" showed up in 1955. It's described as "the capability of computer systems or algorithms to imitate intelligent human behavior".

      You're requirement of self-awareness goes far beyond even artificial general intelligence which can learn and do the same things as people.

      Your internal definition of artificial intelligence is out of sync with the rest of the world.

    • Many people do not have knowledge greater than a LLM though, and are certainly not as cheap or fast as one either.
    • In defense of IBM, the AI based IT management tools that I've used so far have been terrible. Amazon's "Trusted Advisor" seems to come to mind, which gives bad advice about your AWS configuration that would probably crash your systems if you actually tried to implement it as suggested.

    • It doesn't matter if the technology is really "AI." LLMs are a tool, whatever they are called, and they do have the potential to cost people jobs.

  • "I don't intend to get rid of a single one," he said.

    He is lying. Plain and simple.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      "I don't intend to get rid of a single one," he said.

      He is lying. Plain and simple.

      Isn't that out of context. because he was explicitly referring to engineering staff? And what they're cutting is office staff in the HR department, while hiring gobs of new engineers?

    • I think he believes what he says. He’s also very aware that his intentions could change tomorrow.

  • by Baron_Yam ( 643147 ) on Monday October 09, 2023 @10:42AM (#63912061)

    If you're IBM and you have programmers you can augment with AI assistants (which is what 'AI' is currently still not good enough for but might be soon), you do that and try to dominate the market. It's your niche. What AI can outright replace is the clerical staff you have doing repetitive memo-writing. The stuff that isn't "IBM" but is needed to keep the machine oiled and running.

    The really amusing thing is that once we have AI assistants writing memos for us, we're going to follow up with AI assistants to read the glut of AI-created memos, filter out the noise, and reduce the remainder to bullet lists we can actually keep up with. One system creating unnecessary garbage, and another disposing of it while picking out the occasional 'gem' for us.

    I already get more human-created email in a day than I can process while still performing my primary tasks... which is why my mailbox has a couple of dozen rules for sorting and archiving it all without bothering me. I keep it, of course, because occasionally someone will ask me about something and then I can find the note they're talking about. I imagine the company I work for will need fewer HR and PR people to fill my inbox with unnecessary crap in the not-to-distant future.

    • There's no "I" (intelligence) in AI. It's little more than pattern matching by being fed lots of data. The output is mostly garbage. We don't understand true intelligence to the point of being able to produce any algorhythm for useful output. Meaning, we're a generation away from replacing people with "AI". But... BUT, make no mistake. The corporate overlords drooling for that point. Firing people is how you pay for new technology in capitalism... it's called ROI.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Baron_Yam ( 643147 )

        The point is that we do a lot of almost 'busy-work' that is just barely necessary that, until now, could not be replaced by automation.

        That minimum threshold has now been crossed. 'AI' doesn't need to be actually intelligent to write a slight variation of a memo that's been written billions of times before and almost nobody actually reads... and nobody cares about typos or grammatical errors.

        The computer programs are coming for the bottom end clerical work, and just as the computer killed the killed a lot

        • I don't buy it. Even so called "busy" work requires human level intelligence. And no, grammatical / spelling errors are not acceptable - they make you look incompetent. Which is the kiss of death if you're selling a "brand" or "life style" product or in management. C-levels have no tolerance for those.
          • You don't have to buy it, it exists whether you buy it or not.

            I deal with people all the time who write 'professional' email I find embarrassingly inept, yet they remain employed. AI will just make slightly different mistakes when composing messages.

      • Humans are mainly pattern matching as well, the only difference is we are not as good at it.
    • But will the AI remember to include a cover sheet on its TPS reports?
    • Future of HR and other type jobs:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

    • if it augments them? If I have a programmer and they're 10% more productive because of AI I fire 10% of my programmers...

      Yeah, I can't fire the senior architects but I don't have a lot of those guys.
  • by bb_matt ( 5705262 ) on Monday October 09, 2023 @11:12AM (#63912133)

    "Welcome onboard!
    You can totally trust your job security with us!
    What you will be working on is making even more staff redundant, but don't worry, we'll always need you!
    Honest we will!"

    Anyone who joins a huge corporate busy laying off 8000 of its staff needs their head examined, or to be incredibly desperate for money.

    Seems palpably obvious that the new software engineering hires will be busy working on making more staff redundant, eventually including themselves.

    Then again, it's IBM right? So it looks good on the CV ...

    • Don't worry just 'cause you write a tool that basically replaces you. We just want to sell that to our customers, not use it ourselves.

      • If they get self improving AI, then probably everyone will have it. No moat. Just the new baseline. And fired people can turn and work for themselves directly.
  • HR Head Count (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cmseagle ( 1195671 ) on Monday October 09, 2023 @11:18AM (#63912149)

    Numbers in the summary imply that IBM has 24,000 people in HR. A quick Google shows an overall headcount of ~290k.

    There's one person in IBM's HR department for every 11 non-HR employees. What on earth is going on over there that it requires 3-4hrs of HR time per week to employ a member of staff? Not terribly surprised they're being downsized.

    • Well there is the old joke that IBM is a legal company that also happens to sell computers. They have entire buildings dedicated to the legal department.

    • HR includes hiring. IBM is horribly inefficient at hiring, so that is one factor.
      • by Dan667 ( 564390 )
        they are not inefficient at hiring, they are inefficient at employee retention. Based on their rep I would never ever work there. You are treated as completely disposable.
    • and hasn't been for ages. They mostly hook other companies up with H1-B and offshore resources. Those HR employees are sort of like managers for those H1-Bs.
  • by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 ) on Monday October 09, 2023 @11:21AM (#63912167)

    In an interview with CNBC in August, Krishna suggested "we should all feel better" about the influx of generative AI tools

    Well Krishna is the divinity of compassion, tenderness and love after all...

  • The jobs of the people occupying the C-suite, including the CEO are ripe to be replaced by AI.
    Save hundreds of millions every year by shitcanning this lot instead of the rank and file workers !

  • "I don't intend to get rid of a single US Postal carrier. I intend to hire more as new cities are built and need postal services. What I do intend on eliminating is the Pony Express and all its horses, stables, and stable hands, now that we have procured this new fleet of horseless carriages to deliver mail."
    -- US Postmaster General, circa 1860

    (BTW, that's a fictitious quote, made to point out that each new disruptive technology that improves all of our lives comes at the expense of disrupting some c
  • krishna's comments reminds me of scifi movies where they are talking to AI terminals at ticket counters or government offices and they don't work right. Even now we get those customer service chat bots that suck and you have to beat on them to get an actual person. This is the new overseas programming outsourcing where executives are all geniuses moving everything to AI, they create a mess that hurts their business, then they run around screaming in damage control.
  • Earlier this year, IBM announced plans to cut nearly 8,000 staff working in positions spanning human resources in a bid to automate roles. The move means that anywhere up to 7,800 jobs at the tech giant's HR division could be cut, equivalent to around 30% of the overall workforce in the unit

    WOW, what?
    7,800 x 3.3 = 25,740

    IBM seriously employs twenty-five thousand HR folks? No wonder the world is so broken. If the economic and regulatory structure is so convoluted that you need an army that size to hire, fire, pay, and reduce legal exposure, just so the rest of the company can operate, that seems like a sign of major illness in the civilization that business operates in.

  • If algorithms take jobs (call center, creative, entertainment, transportation, manufacturing, distribution, etc.) society is going to have to have a serious reckoning with regard to Universal Basic Income. Hopefully before completing the current decent into idiocy.

    • It's different this time.

      Once AI gets better and more cost effective than the average human filling a type of job position, that position will be automated.

      AI keeps being improved, noticeably, in leaps, measurably so every half a decade. And this will continue.

      How much better are you getting at your job every 5 years? What about how much better is each entry level person in your industry every 5 years than the ones before? Yeah, thought so. Sure, we're now all google-enhanced, but that's essentially just us

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