Slashdot is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Businesses

Marvel's VFX Workers Vote to Unionize in Historic Landslide Victory (rollingstone.com) 51

Posted by BeauHD from the historic-milestones dept.
Visual effects workers at Marvel Studios have unanimously voted to unionize with the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees, marking a historic milestone for the industry. Rolling Stone reports: Following the successful vote with the NLRB, Marvel's VFX union will now enter into collective bargaining negotiations with Marvel. A start date for those negotiations hasn't been announced yet. Underpinning the union drive were the poor working conditions visual effects professionals have endured on Marvel productions, including a lack of pay equity, grueling hours, understaffing, excessive requests for changes, and unfair turnaround times.

VFX crews have been a crucial part of film and TV productions since the introduction of visual effects in the first Star Wars films of the 1970s. But while many other backstage/behind-the-scenes crews and professions (such as production designers, editors, lighting, make-up, and props) have long been unionized under the IATSE umbrella, VFX workers largely remained non-union.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Marvel's VFX Workers Vote to Unionize in Historic Landslide Victory More

Marvel's VFX Workers Vote to Unionize in Historic Landslide Victory

Comments Filter:

  • What good is a union (Score:4)

    by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 ) on Wednesday September 13, 2023 @08:06PM (#63846592)

    when everybody loses their jobs to AI in a not-too-distant future?

    If anything, it'll incentivize whoever wants to get rid of them to get rid of them faster. It's sad but true: unions only work when the unionized workers have something the employer needs that it can't get anywhere else. This will soon not be the case anymore here.

    • The threat of job loss to AI has been front and center in a lot of the union negotiations and strikes lately. I'd imagine it is one of the factors that was involved here as well. They can either let AI pick off their jobs onesie-twosie over the course of years, or all at once.

      • maybe it's time to lower full time to 32 hours right away and slowly lower down to 20-25 down the road

        • Unless you're a blue collar worker, full time is already 32 hours or less for most people. Almost no one in an office is working the full 8 hours a day they're supposedly getting laid for. There's a the few people who are wired differently and are working twice the hours and actually working all of them, but they're the weird sort that are miserable if they aren't doing something.

          This sounds great on paper, but it's going to make things more expensive for the /. crowd since it makes the relative value of
          • What you describe bears no resemblance at all to any job I have ever worked in.
            I have only been working for 40 - odd years though.
          • Comment removed based on user account deletion

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Merk42 ( 1906718 )

            Almost no one in an office is working the full 8 hours a day they're supposedly getting laid for.

            What kind of office jobs are you talking about? Sign me up!

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by whitroth ( 9367 )

            WTF are you drinking? 32 hours? Name one medium or larger company where it's under 40. No, scratch that, where they have never said "whatever it takes".

            A *hell* of a lot of places are 50 or 60 hours a week - and I suppose you pretend that responding to calls and texts and emails from work shouldn't count.

            And CGI companies, and game companies? You haven't paid any attention to the people screaming about 70 and 80 hour weeks?

            • I think that person is presuming that if you are at work and NOT 100% actively working (say you're an architect and you are not 100% drawing/drafting models) then you aren't 100% working, they forget that a lot of what the white collar person is paid for is 'skull sweat', e.g. thinking through the problem and figuring out multiple solutions to then analyze the pro's and con's of and such to present the best to their superiors for them to move forward with. That part of my job is the part that takes the most

        • Re: What good is a union (Score:4, Insightful)

          by ArmoredDragon ( 3450605 ) on Thursday September 14, 2023 @02:11AM (#63847146)

          That's what the UAW seems to be demanding. Which is odd too because they hate EVs because it means less work for them, which is...exactly what they're demanding... Though given the shitty work that UAW members do, it's no wonder their demands make no sense, and it's no wonder they keep electing corrupt bosses.

          No joke, if you want a car assembled in America that lasts worth a shit and needs very little maintenance, then any of the brands not assembled by UAW members should do the trick, like say Toyota and Lexus.

          Then look at the brands with the most UAW representation, like GM, Dodge and Ford... I honestly don't know who is digging Detroit's grave faster, the car companies or UAW? If UAW gets its way, they'll fall way behind on EV production, which means they'll be dead in 10 years. But that's what you get when you're stuck with an incompetent union full of incompetent workers.

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by narcc ( 412956 )

            Have any evidence for your long-debunked anti-union bullshit?

            I didn't think so.

            • Yeah I do.

              I'm not top of the pile now, but one day I will be and then I'll be the screwer not the screwee. How else am I meant to get super rich with this union bullshit? It's theft, stealing the American dream and probably a handful of amendments too. Like the 5th or 2nd or something, you know, the important ones.

            • Sure, I can prove all of it. Which bit in particular are you wondering about? If it's brand reliability, see consumer reports. If it's UAW's hate for EVs, just ask them, they'll tell you exactly that and how they're lobbying the Biden admin to lift the EV mandate and subsidies, and they'll also tell you how they're lobbying for a 32 hour work week. Want to know about corrupt UAW leaders? Google it, it ain't hard.

              The irony that they hate EVs for their reduced labor needs while also demanding reduced labor ou

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by narcc ( 412956 )

                Sure, I can prove all of it.

                The evidence suggests otherwise. You've had two opportunities so far, and haven't even tried to support your nonsense claims.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by mpercy ( 1085347 )

          Why hire one full time worker when you can hire two part time workers for only 3 times as much?

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Atari1040STFMUser ( 9036901 )
      And at least they will be laid off with a retirement package and some other benefits they can use later in life. My father had a union job that was lost within weeks of NAFTA being signed into law. He had a union bargained pension that helped pay his bills to the day he died and health insurance the union had in the CBA. All around my area non union jobs have been lost in large numbers as well. They did not have a pension and never had great insurance, either before or after they lost their jobs. And

      • And at least they will be laid off with a retirement package and some other benefits they can use later in life.

        True that. I didn't consider that angle but it makes a lot of sense.

    • Re:What good is a union (Score:4, Interesting)

      by jacks smirking reven ( 909048 ) on Wednesday September 13, 2023 @08:51PM (#63846670)

      This makes the assumption that if they don't unionize the studio isn't going to just try and replace them with AI anyways, which from the behavior of people like David Zaslav is pretty likely.

      Also let's get a grip on what AI can do and what's involved in cinema quality VFX productions. People can already spot suspect VFX work with the effort put in today and AI still has telltale markers all over it especially when it comes to moving video. AI is still going to follow an 80/20 rule, it's probably gotten to the 80% already but it will be a long ways for it to hit the level of detail a real CFX team can do for that last 20% and that last 20% can make or break how an audience views your film.

      Not to mention there is already a strong public sentiment against AI in such creative works. If the next Marvel feature is going to have CFX via AI there will be a backlash.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Bryce ( 1842 )
      Who do you think's going to type in the prompts to the AI to make the visuals? Studio executives?? When SQL came out, it was marked as a way for managers to write database queries in a friendly language, with the implication that database programming would become a thing of the past. Ever worked on a project using SQL? And who wrote the SQL? In the world of software, at least, the "this technology will cause technical people to lose their jobs" more often seems to instead cause the creation of new sub-
      • Ha! Do you work at my company?
        We got a whole new, streamlined, shiny, super-efficient ERP system a couple of years ago, and the boss is currently interviewing for yet another new staff member to come and sit at a desk and try to perform a business task using it.
        It's hilarious to watch.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by narcc ( 412956 )

        All this nonsense about prompts is just a transparent attempt to shift the blame for the poor output quality from the AI to the user.

        That excuse isn't going to work forever.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      We have heard this one before. Used to be that robots were going to make you obsolete. Microprocessors before that. Jacquard looms even further back. Probably the first time they put a plough on an ox.

      There's always some reason why joining a union will put you out of a job, and it's always just a scare story.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mjwx ( 966435 )

      when everybody loses their jobs to AI in a not-too-distant future?

      If anything, it'll incentivize whoever wants to get rid of them to get rid of them faster. It's sad but true: unions only work when the unionized workers have something the employer needs that it can't get anywhere else. This will soon not be the case anymore here.

      And replace them with what?

      Better scripts, actual cinematography, model and set designers? People who can act? These are the jobs VFX artists replaced.

      I watched Dr Strangelove again recently and it made me realise just how much of that film was clever cinematography, lighting, background music and scripts. It was dead obvious that most of the "flying" scenes were taken from a light aircraft and sped up a bit (just googled it, Polar footage from a B17), even for 1960's cinema but it didn't detract from

    • AI is incapable of doing their job, or the VFX houses would already be using it to attempt to achieve the crippling workloads they regularly get given for a pittance

       

  • According to TFA, 100% - every single person - voted in favor of unionization? That seems... unlikely.

    • It's 50 people. Not sure why this is hard to believe.

  • Joining SAG and WGA?

    • Directors settled before anyone else without a strike a few months ago, which is typical of that union. The DGA tends to be more aligned with the studios. IATSE has a current CBA from late 2021. So not every union is on strike right now and that would include the Marvel workers once they have a CBA which may be quick since Disney already has IATSE contracts.

  • Not VFX workers and not historic (Score:3)

    by Berkyjay ( 1225604 ) on Thursday September 14, 2023 @12:08PM (#63848200)

    These are on-set crews who should have been members under IATSE from the start. I'm not sure why they weren't, but maybe it's because Marvel labeled them "VFX". But in the end this will have zero effect on actual "computer jockey" VFX workers and I wish people would stop claiming it as a victory for us.

Slashdot Top Deals

Never test for an error condition you don't know how to handle. -- Steinbach

Close