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China

Top WHO Official Says China Undercounting COVID Deaths (thehill.com) 62

Posted by msmash from the growing-concern dept.
A top World Health Organization (WHO) official has said China is underreporting deaths from COVID-19 and called for more transparency about the scope of the country's outbreak. From a report: "We believe the current numbers being published from China underrepresent the true impact of the disease in terms of hospital admissions, in terms of ICU admissions, and particularly in terms of death," said Mike Ryan, head of the WHO's health emergencies program. Ryan said China is using too narrow a definition of death attributable to COVID-19. According to WHO guidelines, COVID-19 should be listed if the disease "caused, or is assumed to have caused, or contributed to death."

"We still do not have complete data," Ryan said. "We do not discourage doctors and nurses reporting these deaths or these cases." Ryan added that even though there don't appear to be any new variants circulating in the country, poor surveillance and poor vaccine coverage will lead to missed cases and more deaths. During the same briefing, WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus reiterated calls for more data transparency from Chinese authorities.
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Top WHO Official Says China Undercounting COVID Deaths More

Top WHO Official Says China Undercounting COVID Deaths

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  • Why bother? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by WindBourne ( 631190 ) on Thursday January 05, 2023 @03:24PM (#63182702) Journal
    Seriously, Chinese government is a constant liar. They will not give the truth unless it makes them look good.

    • I agree. Why are they reporting this? The more interesting story is why the Chinese government feels it's justified in being offended and threatening retribution when countries put "proof of health" requirements on their travelers. That's got more nuance and depth. Everybody everywhere knows the Chinese government can't be trusted - EVER - regarding statistics on China.

      • Re:Why bother? (Score:4, Funny)

        by sound+vision ( 884283 ) on Thursday January 05, 2023 @03:52PM (#63182798) Journal

        If only our country had a leader who would take such bold steps at reducing the covid case count... Ron DeSantis 2024!

        • LOL.
          I hope that you are being sarcastic.
          Sadly, DeSantis and trump are just like putin.
        • You obviously don't get the news up in the middle of nowhere. If you think DeSantis' COVID response has been good you've been living under a rock.

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by Arethan ( 223197 )

            Actually, I've been living in Florida (left CA about midway through the nonsense), and it kinda seems pretty good from where I currently sit. Weather here is warmer than the bay area, and the air is cleaner too. Also much cheaper housing, gas, and liquor. Sometimes it rains during the rainy season, which can really put a damper on the beach day plans. Hurricanes come around now and then, but at least the earth isn't moving beneath my feet and knocking over all my shit.

            Something something voter suppression -

    • Re:Why bother? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Eunomion ( 8640039 ) on Thursday January 05, 2023 @04:00PM (#63182828)
      Authoritarian regimes don't report the truth period. If the truth makes them look good, they'll exaggerate it even further just for good measure. Psychologically, they consider reality an enemy.

      • Re:Why bother? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Dutch Gun ( 899105 ) on Thursday January 05, 2023 @04:21PM (#63182880)

        Being no fan of China's government, I'm not trying to pull out the whataboutism card, but honestly, it's not just authoritarian regimes. That's true of many politicians. The difference is whether you have a system of government that limits the power of said politicians to get away with covering up the truth. A free press and a right to free speech are cornerstones in ensuring the truth has an opportunity to get out. It's not a guarantee, but it's the best we've got.

        • A free press and a right to free speech are cornerstones in ensuring the truth has an opportunity to get out.

          GOD, I wish this was true. America has free press and right to free speech, but extremists in both the press and on multimedia sites are destroying this.
          I am amazed that our American news media has become like pravda. I am not talk, right wing, or left wing. I am talking ALL OF IT.
          And the amount of censoring that I see on social media is disturbing.
          On facebook, I was suspended for pointing out in 1 posting that Hitler was horrible, BUT, he also had good points (autobahn, stopping animal cruelty, day

          • You'll notice that I mentioned a free press and free speech only give us the OPPORTUNITY to get at the truth. It doesn't guarantee that we'll take advantage of this opportunity.

            On social media, you're going to find many shallow thinkers who are not interested in nuance, as well as those who enjoy being perpetually outraged, and are more than willing to play the "big fish in little pond" card, enjoying their power to silence you in their own small, petty way. I've long since decided I don't have the patien

            • I agree that we have OPPORTUNITY.
              Problem is, that between the far left 'woke' attitude, and the far right 'block anything at school that they differ with', it is harming our ability to speak up.

              Iran ... Hopefully, these ppl regain their freedom. It took a while to take down the shah, and actually took American president Carter to no longer back him, before he fell.
              Right now, Iran has massive backing by Russia, China, N. Korea, etc. Hopefully, just hopefully, these ppl can overcome what is going on. Co

          • You do know that the right to free speech in the US is a restriction from the government restricting your speech right? It has nothing to do with private entities (Facebook, Twitter, NextDoor, etc.) restricting your speech on their platforms. In fact, when they do so, that is them practicing their freedom to control what occurs on property they own.

            • Yes, they do have that right. It does not mean that I do not have the right to bitch about their policy. I also have the right to no longer visit them.
              I am very limited on FB (I have not put pix on their since 2009 when I worked on US PATRIOT ACT and became aware of them selling our information).
              Twitter, I was all but gone from, but am back on it because I am HOPEFUL that Elon will do what he says.
              As for Next Door, they will likely become the next MyLife or AOL or Yahoo.
        • Politicians in a free society are generally neutral to reality, with some exceptions in either direction: They lie if it serves them, tell the truth if it serves them. They're a more confident strain of sociopath. People in authoritarian regimes are a different breed. They don't tell the truth even if it would serve them to do so, because they instinctively hate it, and fear that being associated with truth in any way would make them look weak. They're quite paranoid and malicious.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Yes, but name one government that honest about COVID deaths. Certainly not the UK one where I unfortunately live. Same trick used the massage the figures in both countries.

      We need an international standard for counting virus related deaths. For political reasons it's a hard sell.

      • compared to what is happening in China, the west was EXCEPTIONALLY honest. The issue in the west, was whether to report cause of death as covid, when was not what killed you, or was simply the final straw. Something like 25% of the western dead occurred because somebody went into the hospital sick with cancer or some primary infection which would not have killed the person. Problem was, that their immune systems were compromised and they got exposed to sar-cov while in the hospital. Then you die from lack o

  • This is a story? (Score:4)

    by nightflameauto ( 6607976 ) on Thursday January 05, 2023 @03:38PM (#63182740)

    Wasn't this known from the word go when it came to COVID? Why is it news now? Just because of them opening up a bit? Gee. They lied about the numbers during lockdown. How shocking they're lying about them still. Next.

    • It's a matter of degree. They used to revise their covid case counts downward at a Ron DeSantis-like level. The numbers were still believable. Now they're on a Kim Jong Un level, saying there are no cases at all.

      If even the WHO is calling them out on it, it's got to be bad.

      • It's a matter of degree. They used to revise their covid case counts downward at a Ron DeSantis-like level.
        Hey are you Rebekah? [wikipedia.org] What have you been up to since the whole baseless claims and failed U.S. House run?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by zlives ( 2009072 )

        nah still ron desantis level, say it with me with the white boots on, there is no climate change

    • Why is it news now?

      Oh I don't know, maybe because like one of the world's biggest economies and the production centre for the west is currently going through utter unmitigated chaos.

      Just because we knew something before doesn't mean it's not news when the circumstances change.

      • Then report that part of it. Reporting that the Chinese government is lying at this point is like reporting that water is wet. Yes, they're going through chaos. I'm far more interested in that than the fact their government is lying about it, which is very, VERY much not something new, nor does it seem newsworthy.

        • Then report that part of it.

          We already have. If you want a story on global economics then read the Financial Times. If you are expecting every story to cover every basis in detail buy a book, news is not the right format to disseminate all the information all at once in a single article.

          Reporting that the Chinese government is lying at this point is like reporting that water is wet.

          And? People need to be reminded that water is still wet. Especially when said water has made a drastic u-turn on multi-year long policy that has affected not only its citizens but the entire world. The story here isn't that China is lying, it's that it

    • Wasn't this known from the word go when it came to COVID? Why is it news now? Just because of them opening up a bit? Gee. They lied about the numbers during lockdown. How shocking they're lying about them still. Next.

      Shocking, no.

      Newsworthy and informative, yes.

      During the initial wave the death numbers were an underestimate but they were counting them [worldometers.info].

      Afterwards if someone got sick they would lock down an entire city so people couldn't leave their apartment, so an extremely low death count (not zero) was plausible.

      Now here's the thing, we expect a country like China to fudge the numbers, not to Russian referendum them [wikipedia.org]. They should be claiming 500 or 5000, not 5, so why the ridiculously impossibly low death count?

      Xi's po

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      It wasn't known, it was alleged but the claims were not credible.

      The claim was that China was covering up millions of deaths. See how they are doing at that right now. They can't hide the fact that crematoriums are booked for weeks, and foreigners are dying and getting consular assistance. As was oblivious back then, covering it up is impossible. China isn't a closed state like North Korea.

      Now we know exactly what is happening, not least because the Chinese government simply publishes the policy that implem

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by dwater ( 72834 )

        Exactly.
        It is obvious there are excess morbidities, and they even explain their figures and say that there is no standard on how to count such deaths, so I presume they just picked one...and they say the true way to measure is by counting excess morbidities and that can only be done later.

        ""
        Both Liang and Wang said it's too early to decide the full impact of the recent wave of infections.

        Noting that there is no agreed way to count the COVID-19 deaths in the world and that each country counts in their own wa

    • Wasn't this known from the word go when it came to COVID? Why is it news now? Just because of them opening up a bit? Gee. They lied about the numbers during lockdown. How shocking they're lying about them still. Next.

      I think you meant "Wasn't this known from the word go when it came to anything important? "

  • So what, at least people can run out of a burning building

  • I'm surprised. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jenningsthecat ( 1525947 ) on Thursday January 05, 2023 @04:08PM (#63182852)

    Not about the story of course - everyone knows the Chinese government has been lying about this since the beginning of the pandemic. No, I'm surprised that The Hill - or even Slashdot editors - didn't refer to recent reports of Chinese citizens saying that the government figures are BS. From a CBC story:

    China reported five new COVID deaths for Tuesday, bringing the official death toll to 5,258, very low by global standards. Many Chinese funeral homes and hospitals say they are overwhelmed, and international health experts predict at least one million deaths in China this year. China has reported five or fewer deaths a day since the policy U-turn. "That is totally ridiculous," 66-year-old Zhang, a Beijing resident who only gave his last name, said of the official toll. "Four of my close relatives died. That's only from one family. I hope the government will be honest with the people and the rest of the world about what's really happened here."

    Given what it could cost people like that to have the government find out what they're saying, I'd say the citizenry is pretty pissed off. I'm half expecting to see a Chinese revolution within the next few years.

    • I wonder if all the people who claimed that Covid wasn't real or hardly lethal will come out in defense of China's low numbers now?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      Not about the story of course - everyone knows the Chinese government has been lying about this since the beginning of the pandemic. No, I'm surprised that The Hill - or even Slashdot editors - didn't refer to recent reports of Chinese citizens saying that the government figures are BS

      The story is that Chinese citizens are questioning the numbers. Remember, a lot of them are spoonfed the numbers and they just believe it without question, like how most Russians believe their "special military operation" is a

    • Given what it could cost people like that to have the government find out what they're saying, I'd say the citizenry is pretty pissed off. I'm half expecting to see a Chinese revolution within the next few years.

      things were getting a bit spicy with the white paper protests, then COVID happened again, big time.
      some chinese are now positing this was done on purpose by the gov't, going so far as to contaminate local tap water with the virus.
      in some large chinese cities, tap water causes COVID testing strips to report positive, whereas tap water from other countries does not.
      no idea regarding the merit of the story, but it is interesting to hear these rumors.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by dwater ( 72834 )

      Everybody does NOT know that.
      Stop projecting.

  • The president wants to know what 2 + 2 equals, so he calls in a mathematician, a statistician, and an economist. The mathematician says, "Four." The statistician says, "A recent poll of a reasonable sample of fourth graders reveals and answer of approximately four." The economist pulls down the shades and says, "What do you need it to be, Mr. President?"

  • "Who reported this?"

    "That's right."

  • At the rate they're going I wonder if they're going to wreck our civilization and species along with their own population.
    The Chinese government clearly doesn't give a shit about human lives.

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