Microsoft To Change Hiring Process After DOJ Finds Immigration-related Discrimination (nbcnews.com) 52
The U.S. Justice Department said on Tuesday it reached a settlement with Microsoft resolving allegations that the company discriminated against non-U.S. citizens in its hiring process. From a report: Microsoft asked job applicants for unnecessary immigration documents to prove they could work for the company without needing its sponsorship for work visas, the department said. It said an investigation found that Microsoft discriminated against at least six lawful permanent residents based on their immigration status by asking them to show a Permanent Resident Card to prove they had permission to work without employer sponsorship. Under the settlement, Microsoft will overhaul parts of its hiring process to ensure the company is following U.S. law, which prohibits employers from asking for documents when they are not required, the Justice Department said.
MS has US citizens working there? (Score:4, Interesting)
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Some of the marketroids are American-born
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+1. LoL. It's been 30 years since I've seen anyone native-born from Microsoft.
I think Clippy [wikipedia.org] is only about 24 year old....
Sure, he's been a bit of a bitter recluse since MS canned him --- bent out of shape (so to speak), living off the grid, with only scraps of torn post-its, that had lost their sticky, for companionship -- but (apparently), in the spirit of nostalgia, MS tracked him down, cleaned him up and is bringing him back for some emoji work [theverge.com].
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Somehow I doubt many of the guys who speak in the really thick and unintelligible accents of the UK are working at MS in the US offices.
So TLDR is they wanted H-1B foreigners only,? (Score:2)
So trying to make out the story and TFA.. its confusing, but it sounds like basically they are trying to hire H-1B's (so they can pay them less or not have them quit easily).
To be able to do that, they were asking foreigner looking people if they had a right to work in the USA *before* making an offer. That way if say an Indian with a greencard showed up, they can reject them and not make an offer (as he would want a higher salary since he has options and also would have an easier time changing companies la
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For a second, I thought you were talking about the Facebook settlement:
Facebook will pay up to $14 million to settle claims it favoured foreign workers [slashdot.org]
Discriminated against non-U.S. citizens (Score:5, Interesting)
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no, you didn't read TFA because it mentions nothing about market wages.. but nice try.
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no, you didn't read TFA because it mentions nothing about market wages.. but nice try.
The pretty clear implication being made is: H1B workers can't aggressively negotiate wages because their right to even be in the USA is contingent on their employment. The GP post is pointing out that MS hires lots of H1Bs, so their discrimination isn't against race or non-citizens -- it's only against non-citizens who might have their own independent resident status and therefore might demand a higher wage.
Re: Discriminated against non-U.S. citizens (Score:5, Insightful)
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H1B workers can't aggressively negotiate wages because their right to even be in the USA is contingent on their employment.
Of course they can, what you mean is they can't follow through on a threat to leave unless they have another job lined up otherwise the company might call their bluff.
No. I meant what I said. The behavior you describe is precisely why I included the modifier "aggressively".
Yes, H1Bs can negotiate wages all they want, but if the company says no, the H1B employee can't just say FU and walk out the door, go home and coast on savings for a long time while job-hunting.
Yes, a blind person can walk across a crowded retail parking lot during Christmas shopping season, but they can't aggressively do it the way someone with sight can. They have a significantly higher risk of negat
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TFA says nothing about wages, liar.
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The OP was likely reading between the lines in that MS was harassing these guys because they didn't want to pay them the prevailing domestic wage if they could get away with paying them (or someone else) an H1-B level wage.
Re: Discriminated against non-U.S. citizens (Score:5, Interesting)
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Do you nationalists have any actual proof of that?
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Can't ask for "Permanent Resident Card"? (Score:3)
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Re:Can't ask for "Permanent Resident Card"? (Score:4, Informative)
Yeah, this makes no sense. Everyone who is hired in the US is supposed to provide a form I-9 'Verification of Employment Eligibility' with supporting documentation. First items on the list of acceptable documentation is US Passport (or passport card), and Permanent Resident Card. This form and supporting documentation must be provided before the third day of work.
I guess if they ask for this before they are hired it is discrimination, but the discrimination suddenly becomes a requirement AFTER they are hired.
Re:Can't ask for "Permanent Resident Card"? (Score:4, Insightful)
I guess if they ask for this before they are hired it is discrimination, but the discrimination suddenly becomes a requirement AFTER they are hired.
I think it actually goes something like this: the job does not require a US citizen, but it does require a legal resident (it's illegal to hire an illegal alien/undocumented worker). But if I ask for proof of legal residency before you're hired, I might be looking to eliminate eligible non-citizens. So I hire you, then ask for proof of legal residency. If you can't provide it, you're out the door.
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Yeah, this makes no sense. Everyone who is hired in the US is supposed to provide a form I-9 'Verification of Employment Eligibility' with supporting documentation. First items on the list of acceptable documentation is US Passport (or passport card), and Permanent Resident Card. This form and supporting documentation must be provided before the third day of work.
I guess if they ask for this before they are hired it is discrimination, but the discrimination suddenly becomes a requirement AFTER they are hired.
Yep. Total insanity. Totally contradictory.
But then, this is the same federal government that requires schools to have girls' sports, and now also requires them to let boys on the girl's team.
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Lol, downmodded for posting true statements since 1998 ...
The federal government literally, factually, requires schools to have girls sports. And in recent times, literally, factually, requires schools to admit boys to the girls teams, as long as they "identify" as girls.
Completely true. And I can totally see why you'd want to down mod that instead of defend it. I really don't envy you.
Error in timing ? (Score:4, Informative)
That you can't ask for eligibility to work until after they are hired. That's consistent with my fuzzy recollections, HR was asking for my social security card on my first day.
It also may be a procedural error by asking for a specific document rather than allowing anything on the government list of approved documents.
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With few exceptions... (Score:2)
...lawful permanent residents of the U.S. have the exact same rights as citizens, but before I became a citizen (long ago) and was working as a permanent resident, every employer I worked for asked me to prove I could work in the US. It wasn't an issue for me. I simply presented my "green card" and went on my way. Even after I became a citizen employers asked for my US passport. Little did I realize that those requests were actually illegal. Well, they may have been illegal, but I didn't consider them to be
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This story is confusing to me too. I'm a citizen and have to provide a passport (or other proof) for an I-9 form to work at a company. So how is the permanent resident thing different?
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Most US citizens do not have a passport, and likely never will.
So, I guess if you say you don't have one, that's one clue that you may actually be a naturally born US citizen?
Its seems more of a bureaucratic procedure problem (Score:2)
its seems more of a bureaucratic procedure problem. Why was the document asked for? Because you look or sound "foreign"? That seems prohibited.
Was it a blanket question for all, to verify eligibility for employment of anyone? That seems legit but you can't require a specific document, you have to accept anything on a list of documents.
Was it a question of timing? You can ask for proof of eligibility for employment after they are hired but not before? Th
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They aren't illegal. In fact it's illegal NOT to verify that the person you're hiring is legally allowed to be hired. The same with opening a bank account, there are VERY different laws that apply for a citizen's account vs a foreign national's account.
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Correct. If you're a citizen you're automatically opted-in on the credit plan that earns the bank the most money, automatically signed up for 'overdraft protection', and immediately get put onto a list of debtors because you could possibly go into the red on your bank account.
As a non-citizen, you show them your passport, sign a waiver that says you can't earn interest (for tax purposes) and that you can't withdraw more than is in the account. And that's it.
insanity (Score:2)
government doing the exact opposite of what it should