Novell Cancels BrainShare Conference 102
A.B. VerHausen writes "While OSCON and SCALE organizers ramp up plans for their events, Novell shuts down BrainShare after 20 years, citing travel costs and budget tightening as main concerns. 'Instead of the traditional in-person conference, Novell plans to offer online classes and virtual conferences to make education and training available to more people at a lower per-head cost to companies,' says the news story on OStatic.com."
Huh? (Score:3, Funny)
I think the real story here is people are still using Novell. They must be found and stopped! Oh god, the nightmares of NetBEUI and IPX/SPX... they haunt me.
Re:Huh? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:1, Funny)
We have a Novell backend,
Wow, that must make it tough to go to the toilet.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
We have a Novell backend, and use Groupwise and Zenworks.
I'm sorry.
Re: (Score:1)
Re:Huh? (Score:4, Informative)
We use a Novell back end for file and print services. You know it's all based on Suse Linux now, right? Novell dropped Netware last year, I think. Almost all of last year's Brainshare was about Linux. Good times, I'm sad to see it go.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
We use a Novell back end for file and print services. You know it's all half-assedly based on Suse Linux now, right? Novell dropped Netware last year, I think. Almost all of last year's Brainshare was about half-assed Linux. Good times, I'm sad to see it go.
Here, I just wanted to make some snide half-ass remark using a tired Internet meme to feel superior and smug without any actual work or knowledge on my part.
There, fixed that for you...
Re:Huh? (Score:4, Funny)
We use a Novell back end for file and print services. You know it's all half-assedly based on Suse Linux now, right? Novell dropped Netware last year, I think. Almost all of last year's Brainshare was about half-assed Linux. Good times, I'm sad to see it go.
Here, I just wanted to make some snide half-ass remark using a tired Internet meme to feel superior and smug without any actual work or knowledge on my part.
There, fixed that for you...
Are you sure that's the way to go about it? Tired internet memes usually get rewarded (modded up) around here. All you need now are some pants, hot grits, Natalie Portman, sharks with lasers on their heads, flying chairs, the ability to imagine a Beowulf cluster of those, and maybe some frosty piss.
Re: (Score:1)
[citation needed]
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
I used a tired Internet meme to mock the tired Internet meme. The recursive nature alone is worth points. And I didn't have to work or contribute anything on my part. More recursion - profit!
Re: (Score:2)
Are you sure that's the way to go about it? Tired internet memes usually get rewarded (modded up) around here. All you need now are some pants, hot grits, Natalie Portman, sharks with lasers on their heads, flying chairs, the ability to imagine a Beowulf cluster of those, and maybe some frosty piss.
In Soviet Union tired meme's reward you.
Re: (Score:1)
In Soviet Russia, proper possessive grammar forms you!
Re: (Score:2)
Are you sure that's the way to go about it? Tired internet memes usually get rewarded (modded up) around here. All you need now are some pants, hot grits, Natalie Portman, sharks with lasers on their heads, flying chairs, the ability to imagine a Beowulf cluster of those, and maybe some frosty piss.
In Soviet Union tired meme's reward you.
Shit, don't ask how I forgot the Russian reversals. I knew I was forgetting something when I hit Submit...
Re: (Score:2)
In Soviet Russia, all of that stuff needs you!
Re: (Score:2)
Half-Assed Truths (Score:5, Informative)
We're migrating off of the last of our Netware boxes, some of them have over four years of uptime so we're not exactly rushing to swap them out. Many of these boxes are being replaced with their new SUSE Linux-based counterparts that offer the same Netware file and directory services that we had before. So far the experience has been terrible. Large file servers that never crashed on Netware now go down weekly. Directory services simply stop answering LDAP queries with no explanation. Sometimes we can restart the service without rebooting, but usually a poorly implemented kernel module blows out and takes the whole system down with it.
We aren't suffering from problems with Linux, instead we suffer from Novell rushing ported Netware services out the door to make their SUSE offerings look like a complete and competent replacement for Netware. They're not there yet, so I find some truth to the parent's troll that "it's all half-assedly based on Suse Linux now," because in many ways it is.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I used eDirectory on Linux and Netware and it every now & then we'd login to one of the main directory boxen and see the whole console filled with abends. As far as file-serving went it was absolutely rock solid, but never managed to see how it fared on Linux (I left the company when they were still using nw6.5 and unitedlinux/sles) because we just didn't "trust" it when our existing setup worked fine.
I don't know how far they've gotten along with making SuSE more streamlined, but at the time most of ou
Re: (Score:2)
What exactly is the advantage, for you, of NDS as opposed to insert_some_other_solution_here? I know that my cute little homegrown samba-ng+netatalk+nfsv4+nis+radius+ldap servers won't ever impress anyone but what exactly is your benefit over OpenLDAP, for what you are doing? I've worked for a couple Novell shops and was always impressed with how reliable the servers were (although also distressed with how easy it was to obliterate them doing routine maintenance and how unlikely two server-installed softwar
Re: (Score:2)
The advantage of eDir/NDS is partitioning. You only need to keep a PART of the directory on your server.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
We're getting painless migration. So far, we've migrated about 30 servers from NetWare to SuSE, and there has been litterally zero impact (almost*). Admin functions are still done on Windows workstations using ConsoleOne or iManager. People still use their Windows PCs, accessing NCP volumes (although the NCP "volume" is actually an NCP layer on the server: the files are actually on ext3 or reiser). We notify our clients of the brief outage while we switch, but other than that, they can't tell anything chang
Whoops - I forgot a problem (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Don't give people not familiar with SLES/Open Enterprise Server the wrong impression here. We've been using it (the complete Open Workgroup Suite) for about two years now and it works great.
The uptime/stability totally beats the crap out of some other vendors.
Also OES1 was the first release on Linux, so it had some issues that were fixed by SP1 and other updates. Open Enterprise Server 2 SP1 is a completely different experience compared to OES1 without any SP/updates.
But I'm not familiar with your situation
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
They are not the Novell most remember from Netware 5.0 and 6.0..
Apparently not a lot of people remember the modern Novell either...
Re: (Score:2)
They are not the Novell most remember from Netware 5.0 and 6.0.
I miss the Novell I (dimly) remember from Netware 3.0, when servers would stay up until you maintained them.
Granted, they were sometimes difficult to bring back up after performing software maintenance as per documentation, but no plan is perfect.
They are have some interesting stuff like Dynamic Storage (policy based storage management) and Domain Services for Windows (AD integration/emulation with eDirectory and Linux).
I'm not sure what "policy based storage management" means, but you can implement Domain Services for Windows (AD integration with Linux) with OpenLDAP and BIND. My understanding is that it is not trivial, but entirely possible. :) Since Novell seems to be failing m
IPX was actually a very nice protocol (Score:5, Informative)
Disclaimer: I spent a year (91-92) working for Novell in Utah.
That said, IPX was in many ways both more forward-looking and easier to administrate than IP networks:
Instead of statically allocated local addresses or DHCP servers, IPX use the 48-bit MAC address as the only local identifier.
IPX and IP both use 32-bit external addresses, but the IPX 32-bit address is simply the address of the network, with no addressing mask to split it into net/host parts. This meant that clients could be plugged in anywhere and just worked, without any DHCP servers, and since each Netware server was allocated its own internal 32-bit network address, it was trivial to install multiple network cards for load balancing and/or redundancy:
If a single link went down, all traffic would automatically be rerouted to the other interface, while having a single unique server address.
This same mechanism was a key part of Software Fault Tolerant (SFT) NetWare, which used a mirrored (over a separate fast/high-bandwidth link) link to replicate all inputs between two servers: This allowed Drew Major (the chief architect) to keep the two servers in lockstep, and handle pretty much any kind of single disaster (up to and including smashing a server with a 100-ton press) without a single client drop.
As a programmer I really liked the way IPX used Async Event Blocks (AEBs) to control all send/receive operations, with optional application callbacks at interrupt time.
At one point (around 1988?) this allowed me to write an IPX-based print server under Dos, which managed to fit a dual-buffered print receiver, interrupt-driven serial and parallel port printer interfacing plus all the housekeeping needed for a TSR, inside about 1600 bytes.
This allowed 2x512 bytes as print buffers, 256 bytes as the local stack and about 300+ bytes for all the remaining code and data.
Terje
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Agreed. There was nothing wrong with IPX at all. The standardization on TCP/IP and the death of other packet protocols is not so much going for something "better", but rather for the least common denominator. Not that that's particularly bad, since it's important for a more open internet and better interop, but it doesn't take away anything from the technical value of other implementations.
Anyone remember LANtastic? As long as you didn't use Token Ring it was pretty good as well.
Re: (Score:2)
I remember LANtastic. The UI was pus, Microsoft would make it work poorly every time they hosed the MUP to hose up NetWare, but it sure worked fine otherwise. Beat the hell outta Personal NetWare, and could really do as well as NTAS.
Re: (Score:1)
Well, compared to anything nowadays it was crap, but back then if you wanted to network DOS/Win3x machines, it was the cat's meow, especially if you didn't want to shell out $$$ for Netware.
That's one of the reasons it was also very popular in the 3rd world. It was a low-cost alternative. Windows NT eventually did it in.
Re: (Score:2)
Wow... that's some serious flashback from an epoch long past...
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
I'll see your LANtastic and raise you a 10-Net.
I'm holding Netware Lite, SageNet and Infaplugs (anyone remember them!!??) in reserve.
I use to install Netware Servers - I think my first would have been with Netware 2.0A. I also used to run a whole raft of Netware Training courses, but 'lost touch' with things Novell around Netware 4.11 when I changed jobs.
Anyone remember fixing ESDI/SCSI Netware disk driver issues by attacking various files with a hex editor, and having to key in the hard disk defect lists!?
Re: (Score:1)
I seem to remember Micropolis (remember them!) used to do something like that. But I might be wrong.
They used to make some sweet disks though. And I think they were the first ones to release a standalone, stackable SCSI RAID produc
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, you're right, it was Micropolis - I'd been racking my brains (unsuccessfully) on that one!
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Whoa! OK, I'll get off your lawn.
Re:IPX was actually a very nice protocol (Score:4, Interesting)
Yup. And now there's a push for IPv6. Automatic address assignment on IPv6 turns the 48-bit MAC address into a portion of the IPv6 address. It's startlingly similar to IPX. If the Internet had been based on IPX, and they figured out a way to make IPX run at a global scale (finding equivalents to things like BGP) we wouldn't be in the impending address exhaustion pickle we are today.
Re: (Score:1)
Automatic address assignment on IPv6 turns the 48-bit MAC address into a portion of the IPv6 address.
whatcouldpossiblygowrong
Re: (Score:2)
Instead of statically allocated local addresses or DHCP servers, IPX use the 48-bit MAC address as the only local identifier.
This is a bad idea because if you decide you need to draw addresses from a pool of more than 48 bits for whatever reason, you will have to extend Ethernet at the same time you extend IPX. The advantage of having a wholly separate address for a wholly separate layer is that you can replace one layer or another with minimal disruption - which is why we can move from a 32 bit address to a 128 bit address or any other bit length without changing Ethernet one bit. If you need to actually have physical connection
IPX address range extensibility (Score:2)
If you ever need to have more than 48 bits to address unique items on interest, on a single network segment, then you'll have a problem.
2^48 is a pretty big number though. It is big enough that every human being on the planet can have about 60.000 addresses, on every single possible IPX network segment.
IPX won't run out before you do need that many single-segment addresses, and IPv6 is doing much of the same as IPX, by (at least by default) having the 48-bit MAC as the least significant part of the 128-bit
Re: (Score:2)
You actually have a lot less than 2^48 usable addresses if you use your MAC addresses publicly, because the MAC includes a vendor code, and vendors have subdivided that space. MACs are not unique as it is, and can not always be changed (at least not trivially.) IP's logical network subdivision makes good sense. Not to mention, it can be used with non-ethernet devices without any fudging. It's all fudge :) Of course, IPv4 is lacking. But that's why we have IPv6. Someday, it too shall likely be superseded.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Perhaps you meant NCP?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Come on. IPX/SPX wasn't all that bad. I wrote a lot of code on it, around '85. Anything NetB* was crap of course.
Good times, cracking the Novell keycard code... that was soo primitive.
Re: (Score:2)
NetBEUI was a Microsoft invention, and IPX/SPX was a damn good protocol for it's time. No address conflicts EVER, large packet sizes. Very nice protocol.
Andy
A lower per-head cost to companies (Score:1, Funny)
I heard they cancelled the show because of complaints from Zaphod Beeblebrox.
Virtual Conferences (Score:2)
...What? (Score:2)
Netware? (Score:1)
Re:Netware? (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
We're migrating to AD right now.
My deepest sympathies for the mid-project nightmare about to unfold before your very eyes. Your employer will lose a bunch of "productivity," but you won't be fired.
Re: (Score:2)
Not only does it make administration easier, but it also makes HIPAA compliance a billion times easier, enterprise-wide management systems easier, provisioning is easier, data sharing is easier, well, pretty much everything's easier than with Netware, and the
Re:Ours went very roughly at first (Score:1)
Yes, well, scale your "very roughly" up to every office in your org and add a bunch of proprietary apps and you've got Enterprise-class trouble.
One office at a time, with one person doing it is blissfully simple. Have a great holiday.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
We still use an HP LC3 at work.
After it crapped out we put it on it's side and set our Midway classics arcade game on top of it. It elevates the game to just the right height and is heavy enough to make a nice solid base.
Re: (Score:1)
Not Netware so much as they use Novell's Linux-based enterprise stack (SLES, ZenWorks, etc).
And the opnSUSE community is very much alive. They released a new version a few days ago.
But some companies still do use Netware to some extent. I know a few in Canada that do.
Re: (Score:1, Funny)
People still use Netware?
Apparently people still ask stupid questions too.
Novell uses a Linux platform these days. You would have known that if you had bothered to consult Google, Wikipedia, or if you realized that several people asked this question before you did and others have already answered them. You fail.
As for me, I'm conducting something of a social experiment. I wonder if the mods will mod you down for being redundant and for asking what really was a dumb question that the slightest research would have answered o
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
This is the internet. The real topic is always someone's social experiment.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, I have a two node file server cluster, attached to a fibre channel-based SAN, running on current server hardware and a recent Netware release. I don't even have to spend minutes per month making sure it works correctly. We're planning on moving it to OES Linux, but it's a bit hard to get excited about that when Netware's providing the entire organization's file/print services with almost no downtime. And if we have a hardware failure, well, the services just fail over to the other server. A lot of use
Novell isnt all bad (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Its and older story but every time i think Novell i remember this
http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=6505527 [informationweek.com]
i remember talking with one of the admins the day it happend - can't seem to find the pictures he sent me.
Re: (Score:1)
Back in the Day we called it Networld (Score:1)
Ah, those were the days.
Not to mention... (Score:5, Funny)
...the whole sharing brains thing was just too messy. Everyone always went home all sticky.
Eew.
The real problem (Score:4, Funny)
...the whole sharing brains thing was just too messy. Everyone always went home all sticky.
The real problem was all the zombie processes.
Re: (Score:2)
...the whole sharing brains thing was just too messy. Everyone always went home all sticky.
Hannibal, is that you?
Netcraft confirms, Ron Hovsepian health question (Score:2)
Novell pulling out of an expensive conference? Only one explanation - Ron Hovsepian [sltrib.com] must be about to perish!
Travel services is dead. (Score:1)
One more crippling bombshell crushed the already beleaguered Travel industry when Novell cofirmed they were going to move to cancel Brainshare conferences and use online resources. Ntecraft confirms that oil is at already at umprecedented low levels collapsing in complete disarray, as more people use online networking instead of hotels. You don't need to be a Kreskin to see where this headed. We're all going to have internet implants rather than using airplanes. Let's look at the numbers...
Re: (Score:2)
And not one moment too soon if you ask me!
(Flying sucks, even if you're on the company ningi...)
Mmmmm...... (Score:2)
Mmmmmmm... Braaaaiiiiinnnsss......
-Taylor
(err... I mean Taaaaaaaayyyyyyloooorrrrr)
This is good news! (Score:1)
The computer convention business is dying (Score:2)
Computer conventions are on the way out. Comdex, E3, and Macworld are dead or dying; now Novell. The SF Convention Bureau says that two Cisco conventions and one from NetApp have been canceled for 2009.
Doctor conventions are up, though.